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DiRT Rally feedback list

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- FFB needs to be revised ("it feeels very odd in the opposite locks, there is a force against the natural movement of the wheel")

Very much agreed with this. Biggest letdown for me atm.

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Well, I think superb so far. This is really what I've been waiting for since CMR 1 on PSX and RBR on PC. Thrilled to see it guys! However I really think you should be looking to compete even further with RBR. That game is brutally unforgiving, and this game is just a tad easier. Don't be afraid to give us a challenge guys!

Also a few comments on stuff that isn't really there yet, but what I would like to see nonetheless:

1. PLEASE NO KEN BLOCK OR FIREWORKS PLEASE GOD.
2. If you're going to have separate events (rally cross dakar gymkhana (again please no) etc), can you split them into their own career modes. I didn't finish a lot of the dirt games past a certain point because I ignored those silly gymkhana events, and was gimped from progressing by a game mode I hate.
3. Comprehensive engine damage; cracked cylinders, snapping belts, sheared mounts/ anything that might come from you not spending enough time on repairs/mechanics.
4. 400 degree steering animation? Kind of looks a bit arcadey that the cockpit driver only steers on a 180 axis. 

I agree in part, NO KEN BLOCK STUFF,  I didn't finish a lot of the dirt games past a certain point because I ignored those silly gymkhana events - including moon buggy & dumper truck races.

RBR, That game is brutally unforgiving, and this game is just a tad easier. - Good this is a game !, not real life ! - Make the physics as realistic as possible but be more forgiving with accidents, it's a game, games need to be fun !.  I'm happy with the current damage model, resetting the vehicle is fast with a 15 second penalty is much better than being made to wait & watch while  your car is being  rolled back on to its wheels before you can carry on.  I know we all need a new rally simulator as there are plenty of arcady alternatives but taking it to extreme realism would be a mistake.   

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Not sure if it's been covered, and on the Steam store page it's been noted that it's being looked into, but for the sake of feedback I'll mention my experience of it. The first few championship events I did went fine, then I went out and came back an hour or so later and now whenever I get to the service station part the game freezes and I get the mysterious error 41. 
Not sure if other people are getting it in the same place, but I get it there every time now!

So yeah, there's my bug feedback.

I'm loving this so far though, it feels worlds apart from Dirt 3. Massive hats off to the art team, too!

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Just throwing you my $0.02 to say I feel you should really have another look at improving the plug-n-play ability of VR.  Right now the functionality is there but it is extremely rudimentary and quirky.

2nd most important thing on my personal list would be to overhaul the FFB and give us some feeling through the wheel.  This game has the potential to be a monster but the FFB is what is going to make or break it.  The physics are at a really nice point and it's a shame that the FFB cannot hold its own in that regard.  Needs to be strengthened first of all, and then expanded to send more feedback through the wheel.

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Before I start with my feedback I have to say that this could be the best Rallye game in years. It might not reach the realism of RBR but it looks serious and focuses on the important parts of Rallye instead just making a big show about it.

But there ist one very big flaw that needs to be fixed before everything else: The missing CLUTCH! Why are there a bunch of classic cars but no clutch which is essential for a realistic feel of the car? This has to be added because otherwise DR will never get even close to a simulation. Not to mention a H-pattern gearbox which should be standard for every serious racing game. Even the more arcade like NFS Pro Street already had it.

The other thing, and a lot of people said the same here, is the amount of grip. The Fiat 131 for example has almost no grip when accelarting in 1st gear but at higher speeds it's very easy to drive.

Please cut out the reset countdown when the car slides off track. If a driver makes that mistake it should be his own responsibility to get back on track and even if it takes half a minute. The button to reset the car is ok and sometimes you definitely need it but please no countdown the keeps you from getting back on track by yourself.

Last but not least the FFB. One thing I noticed is the moving steeringwheel in cockpit view even when your not doing anything by yourself. This needs to be fixed. The steering wheel should only move when I (have to) do so. In my case it's a G25 and it just feels strange to see the virtual wheel shaking while I don't feel anything. This might be more difficult and harder for the player but hey, isn't that what you want, too?

Anyway, thanks for having us participating in the development of your hopefully great Rallye game. ;)

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If you guys don't already compete on iRacing, please try it out and look at the huge technical section in their forums in regards to FFB.

I would also suggest reaching out to Bernie Villers over at AccuForce (also very active on iRacing) to get feedback on FFB.

Their are plenty more people to list who have pioneered the hardcore sim controls market.

Everyone over their is excited for this project and wants to help out.

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Was there some sort of update today....i drove through British rally with the escort cosworth tried multiple times to wreck the car...damage has to go up a lot if i slam hard into a standing car i want my car to be wrecked or when i smash into a  pile of wood logs i just reverse and drive(thats not realism driver errors happen).Thats totally not realistic :/.
also keyboard doesn't work dumbed down with controler settings from xbox controler com'on codemasters...

ps handling seems to be easy to :/

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Ok, firstly, what we have so far is excellent, really well done, been waiting for something like this for a long time! Kudos...
There are of course a few issues that I've noticed - I have a bit of experience in programming and car physics simulation plus there's a little bit of rallying legacy in the family, so hopefully some of this might help :

Bugs
  • Fullscreen (not mobile!): The first time I loaded the game, it went full screen (1080p) automatically. Now however, no matter what I do, it stays in windowed mode - I've tried alt+enter, changing modes back and forth in game, different resolutions, absolutely nothing helps. I have an nVidia 970 on Windows 7.
  • Menu buttons: Once I have setup my wheel (Logitech Racing Momo, an oldie but a goodie), the button mapping for menu items (over which we have no control) clashes badly with the wheel buttons - in a lot of cases buttons 1 and 2 (the gear paddles) are mapped to more than one function, meaning either what you're trying to do fails completely, or triggers something else entirely in tandem. For example, once my wheel it plugged in, it's completely impossible to change the livery of a car, the default button being also mapped to quick menu which overrides everything else. Same with adding perks to engineers - that also clashes with quick menu, though does work, curiously... unfortunately if you actually want to get to the menu at that point you end up spending credits without even realising it! At the very least, every function in the menus should be accessible through obvious keyboard controls or mouse, with on screen hints. Better yet, just have another option screen to allow us to map buttons for controlling menus and be done with it - that way we can actually assign useful buttons on the wheel rather than random guesses like the gear paddles.

Grip

A lot of people are saying there's too much grip but it's not as simple as that - it's dependant on the amount of torque applied to the wheel and the slip angle, surface, approach, etc.. obviously fairly complicated stuff. From what I can see, the following fits:
  • Low torque lateral grip (within slip threshold) is too low - this for example causes unexpected understeer in cars like the mini - it's kinda infuriating coasting into medium corners at completely reasonable speeds then for no reason just going straight on into a tree. This problem is extremely common in vehicle simulation in general, mainly due to simplified tyre modelling, but shouldn't be particularly difficult to tune out.
  • Low torque lateral grip (outside slip threshold) is too high - once a wheel has given up its direct lateral grip, it should be able to move about a bit more - it's most obvious again with the mini with the handbrake on coming into a hairpin, it's very difficult to get the back end to swing round.. on a loose surface and wheels locked it should happen almost automatically, just a slight flick on the way in - the act of braking would dip the nose causing the back wheels to go light, but at the moment you're lucky to get more than 90 degrees of turn before it digs in.
  • High torque lateral and longitudinal grip is too high - if you floor it from a near standstill, the car should be squirming about all over the place, the wheels should spin and the back end should kick out, etc. This is way too difficult to achieve right now.. it's hard to tell how much longitudinal grip there really is as there's not a lot of audio feedback in that respect (see below). Laterally, it's way too stiff right now.
  • Average torque lateral and longitudinal grip is about right - critically, reducing overall grip (as has been suggested in this thread) would affect normal cornering speeds and produce understeer and that gliding / skating sensation seen in other games; the only sensible way to improve on what's there is to modify the steepness of the lateral grip to torque curve :)

Inertia
  • This is an odd one - some cars have way too much rolling resistance and slow down way too much when you lift off the throttle (without braking). I've noticed it most in the Quattro, it'll shed 20 mph in under a second if you lift off completely. The affect is multiplied if you do apply the brake.  This is just plain wrong and really counter intuitive - I keep finding myself trying to coast into turns with a touch of brake to dip the nose a little and almost coming to a complete standstill. Unless there is substantial scrub, the weight and motion of the car should keep it moving without losing much momentum at all.

Feedback and response
  • Audio: For the most part, the audio in game is excellent. However there appears to be very little feedback from the tyres - I've listened for squeal on tarmac stages and found none (it's either missing or very quiet). It would make a huge difference to hear what the tyres are doing as this is a crucial aspect that you miss in a simulation. Regardless of the surface a wheel is on, you should be able to get some sense of the amount of scrub the tyre is experiencing at any given point. It would also be great if you could hear when you transition from tarmac to ice patches (which I think would be pretty noticeable in real life) as it would give more of an indication that you're going to lose grip.
  • Force feedback: Already mentioned numerous times, but I feel it's worth reiterating here - there's no drag on the wheel when going into opposite lock, and there's no real definition to the feedback effects in general.
  • Object impacts: I think this has also been mentioned somewhere, but it feels like the roadside objects have too much of a tendency to send your car skywards, quite unrealistically. I don't think they should spin the cars either (as has been suggested) as that would be just as frustrating and unrealistic.. I assume the issue comes from the resolution of the physics engine updates not being able to keep up with the velocity of the impacts - always a tricky issue but surely there's a way to damp the resultant interactions between specific objects?

Other reasonable tweaks / enhancements
  • Mechanical damage: Right now, you can get away with stacking it into a tree at 70mph and carrying on as if nothing happened. I can totally appreciate the need for making the game approachable to new people, but I'd really love to have a proper hardcore mode like in RBR where you have one good crash and you're done. The unrecoverable car scenario doesn't really make up for this :)
  • Visual damage: With that in mind, the visual damage is also a bit lacking. The overall model deformation is decent (if a little stiff), but after a hefty smash into a wall, we should be seeing heavily bashed bodywork, broken / lost wheels, etc. Obviously, being early access it's hard to say how much more is planned in this area, if what we have now is just a placeholder for something more substantial then that's absolutely fine.
  • Automatic resets: I don't dislike the idea of the automatic resets, but they're way too aggressive right now. They should only come into effect if the car is obviously stuck and off track for at least 15 seconds more than the current timeout, and absolutely should not reset the car while it's still barrel rolling - one of the absolute joys of playing the best rally games of the past was going back and watching your most spectacular cock ups - so far all of my most interesting crashes have been prematurely tidied up. Easy solution for now - add a config option and let us just turn it off. It's easy to get to the reset option in the menu if needed.
  • Reset in neutral: I'm not entirely sure why, but it feels incongruous to be reset with first gear readily selected - if I've crashed badly enough to warrant being put back on track, I should at least have to go through the process of restarting the car and putting it into first.
  • Double shifts: I like the fact that you can't change gear really quickly in these cars BUT there are a lot of times where if I had a proper gearbox I'd drop 2 or 3 gears in one go - being stuck with a sequential control means it can take two or three times longer to do the same thing right now. Ideally there could be a timing latch on the gear shift so that if you change down twice in quick succession (the second change within a certain millisecond threshold) the middle selection is just skipped and you drop straight into the desired gear.
  • Pace notes tweaks: I'm not sure on the best solution to this but there are a handful of pace note calls that are just either plain wrong or called too late to react to. This isn't just a case of needing to learn the track a bit better, I've found myself being led into the same crash over and over again in the same spots where a better call would keep me out of trouble. Can I suggest you start a pinned topic in the forum where we can post a screenshot of the corner and suggestion of what it should be called as?
  • Replay camera: This is trivial, but also infuriating - pretty much every time I've gone back to see a replay to watch a heavy crash or incident, the camera has cycled to interior mode at the crucial moment. Can you PLEASE add a camera mode that just switches between track side and drone-cam? No dashboard or internal view, etc.
  • Saving controller setup & multiple controllers: I usually play with my wheel but occasionally want to play late with a PS3 controller.. it's a pain to have to mess about with settings every time. We should be able to create our own presets either way, but also there's no reason why two controllers shouldn't be able to be active at the same time - just default to whichever is used to start a race at the appropriate point.

I'd better stop there.. pick the bones out of that post :)

PS: forum formatting is a bit broken - headings come out white so you can't see them, just had to edit my post....

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Hi CM Dirt Rally team!
first runs reactions:

Difficult!! been playing dirt series, this is difficult. ofcourse no aids besides hud and automatic gearbox!
other things:
- "Logitech Momo racing wheel" has trouble with throttle and brake pedals, the gear change is not as near as with keyboard, activating Rear is somehow slow or not functioning(again in compare to keyboard)
long since I played with it but dirt-series games were all fine
- a bit annoying slow motion when time stops or car is wrecked, I want to race, not to wait for the slow motion car stoppage
-more clear colors of the chosen item in the menu

What are supported racing wheels ?

Edit:

maybe add feedback on in-game menu?

Edit2:
Difficulty tips, what is Open and Clubman...

<strike>
Edit3:
Cannot get the "Logitech Racing Wheel" to work here, just tried the Dirt3 and it works fine there, something wrong with the pedals here...
</strike>

Edit4:
Me or something else is not right with the buttons on the end of the stage, retire, ESC brings up the restart dialog and not exit...
Anybody else is annoyed with this?

Edit5:
Have to apologies for the Wheel-not working feedback, all is fine, my wheel somehow worked fine with dirt3 but not the Dirt rally.
disassembled and found out that it was dusty, removed the dust, tested and voila, all is fine!!!

the force feedback on the wheel is somehow low, adjusting in the menu does almost nothing!
Would you case looking into this, thank you!

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My suggestion is removable split time references in the HUD menu, as in removing the colored red and green bars from the progress bar and the difference indicator that appears in the screen when passing a time control.

Now the difference indicator could be removed by checking off the timer indicator in the HUD options but the colored progress bars remains and the timer disappears so I'd want to be able to put the timer on but with no references to slip times. I like playing through stages without knowing others splits and going at my own pace :)

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Does anyone know how to get 3 screens working???

I have an Nvidia setup with three 24" 1080p monitors.  It works just fine with iRacing, and all the other racing games - need for speed, etc.  I have the Nvidia Surround enabled so Windows 7 think I have a 5760x1080 single display.  But in the Dirt Rally game it only allows me to pick 1920x1080 or lower, and drops it on the center screen.

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Hello codemasters , first off I just want to say that even though it's not the finished game , it is amazing ..... But they're still a few things left to make this the best rally sim in the world ( it's already close....) Here is some feedback ( I am experienced in rally driving and co driving) 
1)PLEASE : 
- manual wipers 
- I'd like to have  launch control ( manually ) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yIzCsaOZHRw
- I'd like to be able to switch on anti lag manually
- I'd like to be able to drive to the stage from service and when the stage is finished drive back to service
- when I have a flat tire(btw : very cool feature) I'd like to be able to change it 
- I think the cars should be a bit looser 
- I don't really like the countdown when I go off track
- I'd like , at the start of the stage to be in a short queue of cars ( SHORT) 
⚠️- I'd really like more noise from the gearbox , here is a video where we can hear it really well https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SROTaMSDVXY
-I'd like better FFB 
-I'd like more damage ( snapped shafts , engine overheating , ...  ) 
- I'd like much more detail in the car setup 
- I'd  like even longer stages 10-15 min 
- I don't like the colour fade when I crash 
- I'd like much more backfirering sounds :   https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Znsx2HaSll0
- I'd like more anti lag sounds 
- manual headlights 

Thank you so much codemasters hope you read these tips ...

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My wish list so far

1 Force Feedback done correctly (not just canned effects and generic damping)
2 Option to save replays
3 Drone camera only view option in replays
4 Actual values in vehicle set-up. Why it's just a slider with no numerical reference is beyond me
5 Refresh rate higher than 60
6 Option to move HUD elements around
7 More adjustment in cockpit view

I'll add more as I get further into it but this is what I'm seeing right now

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I just drove fiesta WRC in GB, and I checked some numbers. At the start line 0-100 takes this car about 5 seconds. WRC cars are about 1 second faster in that case. Another thing is reachable max speed. At gearbox set 1/4 short I wasn't able to drive faster then 150 km/h downhill. When the terrain is flat 6th gear is completly useless. I reached max 145 hm/h. I think WRC cars are underpowered hard at this point. You just don't feel this car as wild and fast as it should be.

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KostekMan said:
I just drove fiesta WRC in GB, and I checked some numbers. At the start line 0-100 takes this car about 5 seconds. WRC cars are about 1 second faster in that case. Another thing is reachable max speed. At gearbox set 1/4 short I wasn't able to drive faster then 150 km/h downhill. When the terrain is flat 6th gear is completly useless. I reached max 145 hm/h. I think WRC cars are underpowered hard at this point. You just don't feel this car as wild and fast as it should be.
Exactly what I was thinking .. Me I directed the Forums new to say this, but you had said.
The cars need more power, top speed and torque. Leave too slow tight turns, lack of rush  / power / torque ...

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Not sure if it's been mentioned but some AI to the crowd would be nice, so they can run out of the way when i'm sliding sideways around a corner and i clip them with the front of my car causing a reset and time penalty.

Also i get reset and penalty for just touching the tape on Monte Carlo hairpins.

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Really not sure if this is the right place for this, and I think first post (definitely first on DiRT Rally)!

So surprised at this release. I was just talking to sim-racing buddies at Brands Hatch this weekend past about the need for a good rally simulator. The Early Access route is by far the way to go with this. Codemasters are showing that they are taking note of the community and the thoughts and opinions posted here will hopefully make it into the game.

I've not had a lot of time yet to get into this other than the initial testing I did when I purchased the game on Monday evening, and then earlier tonight. But what I have played I love.

I love the rawness this game has. No map - perfect, as it should be relying upon shakedown runs and the notes coming from the co-driver. The stages that I have seen are fantastic, narrow, slippy, dangerous. - As rally often is. The sound is also great. Now I've played with only one car so far, the Lancia Fulvia HF (?!) and loved it. - I'd love to dive in with the latest cars, but unless I've missed something, I have to play through the Rally Championships to unlock, which is great. Otherwise, I am just an over-excited noob who's missed things!

Improvements I'd like to see are:
  • More than 180 degree turn on the in-car wheel
  • improved feedback feel & more customisation options ingame (move away from the DiRT 2/3 style of controller setup)
  • further options to reduce sensitivity in controls. True analogue adjustment, not digital on or off's
  • more ingame graphical configuration options
  • incar seat options, up/down/left/right/pitch-up/pitch-down/fov etc
  • see other cars (ai/downloaded human) drivers on stage / overtake / be overtaken
  • ability to drive from pit area to start line
  • ability to drive after finish to staging area or pit garage
  • reduce the sensitivity of the reset vehicle feature - if the car still moves and self-recovery is an option, it should be allowed.
  • remove the added penalty if off track countdown zero's - surely you waste enough time trying to recover?
  • remove the recovery when the car is still on stage but cutting - adding objects to discourage cutting instead
Finally, just to repeat, I love this game already. It's very well polished, and I applaud Codemasters for choosing the early access development route.

EDIT: Forgot to mention dynamic headlight and wiper control would be great.

Also, the inclusion of drones and camera angles achievable via drones grabs a large part of my interest - job well done!

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Hi Awesome makers of  DIRT Rally,
  • D-box and compatibility of other telemetry output devices
Since D-box is the official hardware support in motion for this game. Can we have extra UDP telemetry channels for other peripherals like the simxperience Accuforce wheel, Simxperience GS4 seat and other shiftlight peripherals like Fanaleds.

This is something that cannot be done with the past Codemasters games. When running d-box motion which seems to have an ip "dbox" in the hardware configuration, when that is used no other hardware  could tap in to the telemetry output. Now that the Accuforce steering wheel needs simcommander telemetry to work. There won't be basic wheel support for d-box users.

This game is going to be an amazing sim with all these peripherals to increase immersion. Please do take note of  helping us sort out hardware compatibility for these products. 

I've been told by d-box software developers that f1 2015 being a next gen engine, will have this support. Dirt rally too? Been waiting too long to feel the excellent motion cues of d-box and GS-4 seat together in a rally sim to fully experience the physics behind this game.
Thanks!




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I think the game would benefit from a few things: 
-Optional simulation of drive between stages and service area (including any damage taken adding to existing stage damage)
-Replay camera mode that replicates real world broadcast cameras
-Tunnel sound effects
-Safari Rally (Kenya)
-Lydden Hill Rallycross circuit
-Ferrari 308 Group B
-Alfa Romeo GTV6 Group A
-Saab 96 V4
-Mitsubishi Evo IV Group A
-Modern WRC3 2wd cars

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first of all, thank you for the beautiful game. But I think you have to improve

-More Tunning
-In custom events put a stop after each stage
-Possibility to organize real Championships offline
-To work for better graphics


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Sorry I had forgotten :smile: 

-The sounds of cars.It is unrealistic

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Cars, not sure what they belong to but was favorite group in RBR.

N4_3 Renault Megane RS
N4_3 Audi A3
N4_3 Mitsubishi Lancer evo X

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How to challenge other serious drives and not crashers and slammers?
Project cars has a good system they use and its good if you can use it too!

While you drive every kind of relevant statistic is log and that is used to determine your performances profile.
And when you take on challenges with other players that is used to match you with the right player. So when you want serious competition you will know your be up with an opponent that's clean and professional.

At the moment you can only challenge base on the time of player not base on how well the players has done on the track? How many times did he crash, restart, was he just a demolition crash player, etc?

If your play professional you get rewarded by playing professional players and not demolition crazy players.

Those who like to crash every where and not be serious then they will meet other players who are also not serious and like to crash. They will not be able to challenge professional players time as it will be block out. It will still be there showing but it will be lock. If they want to challenge them they they will need to better their skills and practice more!


 

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Anyone else unable to adjust sound levels?

I go into the sound options and the music and sound effects get lower while in the menu, but once I'm in the race, everything is just as loud. I'm having an extremely difficult time hearing my co-driver when driving the Stratos.

I have an ASUS Xonar DG audio card, if that means anything. Using 2.1 speakers, Flat setting in-game.

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