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A test course/track would be really helpful which you can 'try before you buy' any car(s) you are thinking of buying.

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Hi there,
i´m playin dirt for about 4-5years, since 3 years i use the thrustmaster t500RS with shifter/handbrake from Frex GP.

First: FFB need to be overworked, im having all forces to 100% (ingame as in the trustmaster settings) and the only thing that responds is the wheel weight. im missing the drift/jump effects, also the holes and gravel that i drive through. actually there is mostly nothing of the feelings in dirt 2 or 3 to be given in dirt rally. that´s very annyoing because without the ffb effects driving sucks more and more.

Second: i´m driving in dirt 2/3 with 540° rotationangle and have no problems , but now even if i´m using 720° it´s much to twichy to hold the car straight or get some clean drifts. i tryed to compense with the linearity...only slightly better.
next is, that the grade of beeing twitchy changes with every car/track.....makes it very hard to find some constant values.

third: sound needs some overwork too, like speech is much too quiet( having speech to 100% and engine sounds by 50% even makes it hard to understand most of the directions).
and why for eg. the 90´s subaru sounds mostly like the lancia delta, although the subaru have boxer engine.....

one thing that i found out: forced cam in the group b audi quattro the cam is behind the seat, makes it impossible to see
(don´t know wether it is caused by tiple monitor use, didn´t have the problem in another car yet)

that´s what i found out since now.... hope u find some fixing for it.


otherwise some very great rally simulator u brought us, thanks for that.

 

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I'm a long time rally fand and a sim racer, and I'm very happy to finally see a serious effort of a rally sim. I hope Dirt Rally will continue in the same direction and stay pure of all non-rally stuff that drove this series astray in the past.

Here are my notions of the game so far:


1. Cars are modeled beautifully and their handling/power characteristics are individual like they should

2. The sounds are AMAZING. I love how the cars really sound like the real thing, including the Quattro's   5-pot and the Subaru Boxer.

3. Overall grip is a heated debate - my solution: Add an in-game option for players to choose between low and high grip (as can be set in the xml files currently). You can this way satisfy both groups of people, those who want more slippery handling and those who find it OK as it is.

4. Course design is very nice - but let's have in the future more fast, flowing gravel roads, where you can hold higher overall speeds. In WRC, there are several rallies where the top cars reach 200 km/h on the straights - this should be possible on some rallies in Dirt Rally too.

5. I like the grinding aspect, that you get to upgrade your car as time goes by - but it could be more advanced - you could unlock different parts, buy them with credits etc, make it more "authentic" so to speak. In addition, and this is important: The cars should show ACTUAL hp and weight in the specs, and you should be told by how much your upgrade will increase HP. It doesn't make sense you have to guess how much power your non-upgraded car has.

6. One way of upgrading cars would be developing them into the "next year" or "evolution" spec; for example, you would have a group 4 Audi Quattro, you would then upgrade it into Group B Sport Quattro, which you would then upgrade into Sport Quattro S1. The Delta integrale into Intergrale 16V and then into Integrale Evoluzione. And so forth.

7.For custom events, I would like to see selectable time of day and weather - so you could set them like you want for specific needs. Random weather could be another option.

8.About car handling - I find it currently that you have to work too hard to make the FWD and 4WD cars slide (controllably). Even RWD cars sometimes feel like having too much grip in the rear. In real life, you could easily power slide a group B car on dry tarmac by throttle alone.  ***edit*** this refers mostly to tarmac surface; I find that on gravel, powersliding is much more like it is in real life; lift-off oversteer and scandinavian flicks work. Gravel feels almost ready for release, tarmac needs overworking, but it's not very far off.

9.Mouse support. Should be easy to do, and would very much improve handling the menus and options.


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I put it in other thread, but I think this is the correct place as wishlist...:

"I Think in the possibility of block gearbox option for wheel users, that means, if you play with a wheel and a gearbox and paddles too (which is very normal nowadays) and if the game recognizes that we are playing with this periferic, automaticaly (with a selection swich in panel options like "Block Gearbox for specific car") make that the user can only use the real gearbox assigned for that concrete car (if we have the swich ON) or free election (if we have the swich OFF)."

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I'm having a very hard time getting to know the Menu buttons layout, when my Logitech G27 wheel is connected. The buttons on the G27 is numbered from 1-23, making it difficult to actually know which button to push.
Solution: When playing GTA 5 PC with an XBOX 360 controller, the menu button layout changes to keyboard layout if you push a random key, and goes back to Xbox 360 layout if you push a button on the controller. I would like to see something similar in Dirt Rally. Mouse support in the Menu, would also solve the problem.

Otherwise really enjoying the game!

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There should be the option of having different player accounts on a single computer - my wife likes playing this game and I'm sure many people are playing with their kids etc.

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Neogeta said:
A test course/track would be really helpful which you can 'try before you buy' any car(s) you are thinking of buying.
I thought that too, try the Custom Event which allows you to drive any car on any track.
It's pretty well hidden: on the 1st menu screen, just above Options & Extras.  I'd been playing for almost a week before I found it.

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xGabe62x said:
...Handbrake barely works with FWD,  wheras in reality it should spin the car quite easily.
The handbrake does spin the Mini Cooper easily, but only if you're on the accelerator at the same time (and turning the steering wheel, obviously).  Even at low speeds like 20mph going round a hairpin, this works for me.  But if you're not on the gas, nothing happens.

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A little suggestion that I would have is:

Mappable button for co-driver to repeat last note. It could be adjustable depending how fast/slow one has the co-driver reading the notes, lets say from last to last 3 notes or something. This would be quite useful little feature in situations where you messed up a corner and the notes went by or you mishear a note or two. Also this would fall under "realistic" (my pet peeve) as well. You can occationally hear rally drivers say "repeat?".

Thank you for this quite entertaining Rally sim (about bloody time Codemasters :/ <3 ) , looking forward to see where this one ends up.

Good luck!

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testing area / practice area would be cool, also just had a thought after watching my replay. I think seeing dirt/dust/loose gravel here and there in front of you would make the road textures look more realistic

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There should be the option of having different player accounts on a single computer - my wife likes playing this game and I'm sure many people are playing with their kids etc.

I think if you have 2x steam accounts linked to 2x different windows accounts (log in) then this is possible.  I don't think you need to purchase the game twice with Steam Family Share now.  

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Synck said:
SamRWD said:
acmilangr said:

My biggest gripe with the game so far however(I know i'm not alone in this).
The stages themselves. When you say 12 tracks, people expect 12 tracks. Not 2 tracks and the following 10 be reverse tracks, and bits of the longer tracks turn into a shorter one.
What makes it worse is that many of the tracks that go on the same area have different names.

This was the case for the tracks in the DiRT games as well, which I personally dislike.
You had 1 track that started at A, ended at D. Then you made another track that went on the same course from C to B and slapped on a different name. Then had another B to A and C to D. And then reversing them.
Make unique stages! Reverse stages are ok, but not cut outs of the longer tracks.
I am wishing that this game will be either like CMR 2 or 5. Those games had lots of locations and every stage was different(at least cmr 2 had, not 100% sure about 5)

I will keep playing the game, and I hope there will be many more locations to come and more different unique tracks for each country. It will make the game feel more complete instead of copypaste. Really looking forward to australia!

THIS.

most stages are the same...
+1
Last time I checked it's what you do in rally and I am pretty sure it's a game about rally. The stages in the game have been taken from real roads. If you ask me that's as close as real you can get unless you want to laser scan mud.  
I think many people don't get the actual problem. It's not a problem of the stage realism it's a problem of the variety. At the moment it could happen that your driving 3 Stages in a row:

1. A-C, 2. B-D and 3. A-D

In this case you're driving the stage between B and C threetimes in a row, and that's what's kind of boring about. Just create 6 different stages an run them in both ways. No central-road like it's now the case or as it was the case in the most WRC Games.

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Synck said:
SamRWD said:
acmilangr said:

My biggest gripe with the game so far however(I know i'm not alone in this).
The stages themselves. When you say 12 tracks, people expect 12 tracks. Not 2 tracks and the following 10 be reverse tracks, and bits of the longer tracks turn into a shorter one.
What makes it worse is that many of the tracks that go on the same area have different names.

This was the case for the tracks in the DiRT games as well, which I personally dislike.
You had 1 track that started at A, ended at D. Then you made another track that went on the same course from C to B and slapped on a different name. Then had another B to A and C to D. And then reversing them.
Make unique stages! Reverse stages are ok, but not cut outs of the longer tracks.
I am wishing that this game will be either like CMR 2 or 5. Those games had lots of locations and every stage was different(at least cmr 2 had, not 100% sure about 5)

I will keep playing the game, and I hope there will be many more locations to come and more different unique tracks for each country. It will make the game feel more complete instead of copypaste. Really looking forward to australia!

THIS.

most stages are the same...
+1
Last time I checked it's what you do in rally and I am pretty sure it's a game about rally. The stages in the game have been taken from real roads. If you ask me that's as close as real you can get unless you want to laser scan mud.  
I think many people don't get the actual problem. It's not a problem of the stage realism it's a problem of the variety. At the moment it could happen that your driving 3 Stages in a row:

1. A-C, 2. B-D and 3. A-D

In this case you're driving the stage between B and C threetimes in a row, and that's what's kind of boring about. Just create 6 different stages an run them in both ways. No central-road like it's now the case or as it was the case in the most WRC Games.

this is the most important problem of the game.

make unique stages!!

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Real leaderboard time challenge!
So you can try and beat real world rally leaders on the track. 

Helicopter
Helicopter following you like a camera.

Spectator
Cheering when you pass them!

AI
Learning and getting better as you keep playing them.

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Some of these points are repeated but I wrote this post out beforehand and had to cut and paste it here from another section.  I'm sure it's easier to ignore any repeats rather than have a go at me for actually repeating them and not having read the entire forum first. ;)


Let me start by applauding Codemasters in their attempt to make a bone-fide rally sim for the purists.  I am really impressed with this title in terms of its physics, sounds and graphics.
Defauly FFB is a letdown but it is early access.  I had to use a 3rd parry ffb file which has transformed the game for me so this is something CM should look into. 
But if Codemasters really (no I mean really) want to make Dirt Rally look and feel like a sim as well as drive like one, I feel some changes are needed.

Some bad habits have been carried over from titles such as Dirt 3 and for a sim, these need to go.  I have taken a lot of time to make notes and compile them here so I hope someone is out there listening and really wants to make Dirt Rally into something it has the potential of being, which is the best damn rally sim since RBR (and likely better than even that.).

There are some arcade style features in Dirt Rally which are just not good.  The replays are the worst. I mean it's boring and dire and needs to be re-done. I will explain more later.
The graphics from in-cockpit are amazing, especially water splashes (are their mud splashes?).  CM have done some seriously good work on this title (the sounds are amazing) and I hope they don't spoil it by leaving it essentially as it it.

So lets start with the replays.  Ok so this is not a driving aspect of the game, so technically doesn't change how much a sim the game is to drive.  But after a sim-like drive, the last thing I want is an arcade-style replay.  This replay should either be consigned to the bin or kept as a sort of "Director cam" option when cycling through the replay cameras.
The replay as it stands is so boring I cannot bear to watch.  Those great graphics and sounds are being wasted on long distance helicopter shots which last too long, Go-Pro style exterior cam shots which are dull and interior shots which still has the pace notes being read out for some bizarre reason.  Really don't need to be instructed by a co-pilot during a replay.
At present 90% of the replay can be thrown away as unexciting and undramatic.  The other 10% is as it should be.   Proper believable ground based track-side cameras.  Not seemingly floating cams or ones that impossibly follow the car. 
The entire replay should simply consist of track-side TV cameras from believable positions.  See Assetto Corsa for an example of this. RBR does it pretty well too.
So I would say either consign the current replay method to a director mode and add another replay cam option to be just track-side TV cameras or ditch the current one altogether and replace it with track-side TV cameras. 
Not only do I like to watch my replay but I want to be able to choose which camera I watch it from and not have the game chop and change from interior to exterior then long time helicopter/drone shots from too far away.
Think of the amazing replays that will pop up on YouTube. !   Please CM, do something about this.

Ok onto my other points, some of which are replay related. .....

1) Replays:  Sometimes the amount of dirt kicked up from behind a car is a little overdone and I know you can get this in the real world where you can't see the car for the dust, it just seems there may be a little too much of it.   Not a big deal, but an observation nonetheless.

2) Replays: Going back to what I said above regarding the not so good 'Director style' current replay system we have...  Helicopter shots are too far away (not zoomed in enough) and last for a bit too long.   Also the Go-Pro type on-board exterior shots are too numerous and they do not excite.

3) If you choose Auto or Semi-auto gearbox then sometimes the reverse gear does not work when you double-depress the brake pedal.  Reverse gear should never be on the pedal anyway. Especially not in semi-auto mode where a further downshift from neutral on the wheel should engage it.

4) Replays: Do not need to hear pace notes in replays. They are only heard on occasion anyway and really aren't needed in a replay.

5) Replays: Assuming CM can and do change their replay system to track-side tv cams only, it would be great to have a feature to save your replays.

6) Replays: Steering wheel control in replays is a bad idea.  If my steering wheel is 1 cm off centre during a replay then it's going either in reverse or has sped up.  Would be much better with h keyboard control or provide that as option instead of wheel control in replays.  

7) Asking for button 1,2,3,4,5 etc...  That needs to change as you have to work out and remember what button 3, 2, 5 etc are.  Please, for PC users with wheels, again let us have keys to control these things

8) As a continuation of point 7, can we please have mouse support in the GUI / menus ??  Cheers.

9) Facility to allow for seat positioning (fwd/back/up/down) in-car as cockpit position sometimes is not ideal and too car away.

10) In the GUI when we select which rally stage we want to do (stage information), we should be able to see the length of the stage (miles/km) and our current best time there.

11) Auto vehicle recovery.  This 'feature' should be removed altogether and it should be totally manual (like RBR).  We have a button to recover the vehicle and it should depend on that only. If a cheat (cut corner) is detected then just add 5s or whatever to the stage time.
Adding 15s for a vehicle recovery is unrealistic and annoying when the game auto recovers the car and gives you the penalty when you could have recovered it yourself in less time and saved the penalty. By going off the road you are already incurring a time penalty anyway !

12) Do not need a 10s countdown to recover vehicle. Unrealistic. Then you STILL incur a 15s penalty !  Sometimes you can and want to recover yourself and should not be counted down. Again this recovery procedure should be manual and at the users discretion.  The vehicle should only recover when the users presses the button to do so.

13) Like the brake pedal acting as a reverse being intermittent (point 3), this may also be a bug.  Recover vehicle button doesn’t always work. Have to go to pause menu and do it from there.

14) For us PC users who are used to this sort of thing it most of our other sims, the ability to press 'Esc' during a rally stage would be handy (same as button on wheel for pause menu). Fiddling for it on the wheel can, on the rare occasion, have undesirable consequences.

15) Windscreen wipers are currently totally automatic.  Hmmm.  Can we please have an option for automatic (as it is now) and manual on/off ?  I see them coming on a lot for no apparent reason atm.

16) In-car steering wheel should properly mimic users steering wheel both in movement and any shakes.  The fake shakes are off-putting and unrealistic.  The car steering wheel seems to have a very limited turning ability and does not match what the users wheel is doing.   An option to make the steering wheel invisible would be good to as this is a much requested feature.

17) In the Custom Setup screen, in the Details section, where it asks you location, stages, results type, ai difficulty, it should remember the last user settings and not keep going back to default every time.


This is all I can remember for the moment.  I know a lot of it is replay-centric but I really feel this part of the game lets it down right now.  I can just see the potential this has and if CM are dedicated into making this a full blooded sim then they are going in the right direction and I can see it's potential and don't want it to be let down with stuff that nay-sayers can just pick it apart on.  Please give us some nice replays so I can watch/record them too. smile 

I can only wish CM the best of luck and admire that they are out to set the record straight that CM can produce a proper sim.  I want Dirt Rally to come out with a bang !



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 If you are having any of the problems... We're still trying to get to the bottom of them and the more info we can collect about your system the quicker we can get to fix. " ------


Hi guys, Just bought the game, bought a new gpu.. and fixed 41 error.

 It's perfect, sounds, graphic, except for TWO BIG POINTS :

 

- CARS HANDLING Physics

- THE FFB


As i play without it on my g27 (!) and consider the fact you say you work hard on FFB, im here to tell about the car's physics.

They're arcade, not sim guys. RBR was 2004 game,  and if rally/sims enthousiast play it still today (RSRBR 2015 is and add on community made modd wich improving the original game) that must mean something ! So try to make the same, or to copy the physics, for sure they are way better than the 2015 DIRT RALLY.


WITH THAT AND A ' RFACTOR'S LIKE FFB' YOU 'll SEND BILLIONS OF IT !


Trust me, all the simdriver here are thinking the same, Im one that speaks for many, many players of that old richard burns rally...


DIRT RALLY cars physics are quite better than arcade basic games, or old dirt  for now, but it is lacking 'reality', let me explain :


- Quattro, group b's, and 4x4 globally behave has they should : traction in corner with front wheels, understeering trend, countersteering with throttle open is possible.ok . 

But way too much grip on icy or dirty, gravel surfaces road to be realistic.

(also these group b cars have GIIIGGGGANTIIIC BRAKE ENGINE, so the car slow down very hard itselves just when lifting the throttle, therefore, the driving experience turn to be like "just lift the throttle to brake, it's on the same pedal..... too bad for a sim, pleas.....)

On this sort of surface the handling is define with inertia. On gravel roads,  a bit hard and late on the brake should way more often put the car slipping brutally, due to inertia of it's weight and the locked wheels. We need to feel this "not under control " exciting thing. 


- MASS TRANSFER IS TOO ABSENT, impossible to set movements on the car like our brain and the reality is willing too. Simracing is an experience for racers, like golf player, on a sim the surely want to feel the same as when they're playing for real, feal the club, the touch with a driver, the WEIGHT of it.... and as far as i know the game is currently most a visual playing experience than a simdriving experience. 


- THE BRAKES : With no ABS, i expected to fail many times hitting brakes on snowy road at 140, in front of a wall.... but no, grip, and grip.


- M3 in 1st gear in hairpin exit do not wheel spin .. ?

In snow neither...and if it rains on the snow ..? :(  Behaves like 4WD...



OTHER EXAMPLE : THE LANCIA FULVIA -> BEHAVE THE OPPOSITE OF IT SHOULD.

This car is fun, exept 100 hp / 900 kilos car that can't even hit 90 mph... But MOST IMPORTANT, THIS FWD CAR OVERSTEER ON GAS, AND DOESN'T WHEN THROTTLE LIFTED. A FWD car isn't supposed to exit corner or entry like a porsche for sure.


No need to put rally driver to improve dirt, they drive real cars, we drove sim and real car, you asked us, want to sell to us : go and see RICHARD BURNS RALLY.


Everyone is thinking DIRT RALLY is going to be the best rallysim ever, I agree, especially with people saying " Put some RBR in it and we 'll have a winner ! "


Because we all want to go hard sideways with the big quattro, feeling the limit and claim we are Walter Rohrl for REAL !! Behind our computer sweating for real...


Regards from France    


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5iKfI0QMCw

Imagine how it could be with DIRT RALLY graphics and sounds...

BEST RALLY GAME EVER

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Hello again! 

I've got about 16 hours on the Dirt: Rally clock and would like to give some in-depth constructive feedback of my own in addition to my initial impressions. 

1a. Stages. I know you spent a ton of time making these stages awesome, but the game needs more of them. Many more. I'm already to the point where I think "...do I really want to play this and just cycle through Wales, Greece, and Monte yet again?" This rarely happened in the original Dirt, which I probably have over 100 hours clocked on. Anyway, the stages in this game are fantastic, but there needs to be more variety, and made unlockable as you go, so you get do "discover" new countries stages. See 3b for a bit more on this.
1b. Stage Weather. Throw a bit more chaos of that in. Maybe it's just the progress I've only made so far, but it seems like the weather is always very fair. It'd be cool to see still (no wind) stages for Greece with dust hanging in the air from the competitor in front of you and have to fight through that, or Greece with rain, Wales with snow falling and only mild roadside accumulation, and rain to snow changes mid-stage in Monaco. 
1c. Event Structure: Perhaps something like there's three different series of events you can choose from for each "Championship year" you drive your car in. For instance, I click "Championships", then pick my car, then it brings me to an event menu where there's 3 boxes, each containing 3 (or so) different countries, always different, and always random, and I can only pick one, and that's the "Championship Series" I race in for that race season in that rally car. And add a bonus for placing top 3. This could add some good intrigue to the game, as well. 
1d. Stages in general. Someone said that long, fast, flowing gravel stages would be a nice addition, and I agree. Also, distance listings as you view the stage menu for the event would be really nice to know.
1e. Side note. Rally Raids, like even a little of Dakar or Baja 1000, and the cars/trucks/class 1 buggy's and trophy trucks that compete in them would be really cool to include. I loved the Raid's from DiRT 1 and would like to see more of this. It's still rally, afterall, just a different version of it. Also, super specials would be cool to have back.

2a. Cars. The selection right now is great. But again, there needs to be more. Maybe have the current ones as the "Buyable's" and the new ones as cars you win or something. But more cars for every era. I've made my list in a previous post, so I'll leave that alone.
2b. Cars Upgrades. I really like the idea a few people have had about adding specifically better parts, or buying upgrades instead of just unlocking them as you progress. It gives that feel of player choice, a lot like in real Rally, where figuring out what kind of parts to buy and learning them once installed is a big choice, and can have great, or marginal gains in performance. Tire choices would also be a big plus. 
2c. Cars Liveries: I'm not so picky on making my own, but more options, especially classic ones like the Rothmans, Olio, Alitalia, etc liveries would be a good addition. Being able to change wheel color (and in some cases, size) would be good, too. 
2d. Car Damage and Restarts. I'm not so hardcore as to want this game to be RBR, because that game isn't fun, it's self inflicted torture. If driving a rally car were that hard, all drivers would DNF. However, the damage model in this game is a bit odd. I love the tire flex, the flats, the brake grinding after too many stages, etc. But the rest of it is a little weak. Sorry to keep calling back to DiRT 1, but the damage model in that game was fantastic; when you'd accidentally center-punch a tree, that was it, terminal damage. This game could use a much more comprehensive damage model like that.
In line with that, the restarts. In the launch video you guys recorded (the hour long one), you'd mentioned how you want to limit peoples restarts. I think a good way to do this (maybe) is to increase the damage model and allow more flex on the finish times (even more than there currently is) so that it encourages people to keep going; to press on regardless, as it were, and still have the chance of doing well. Perhaps limit restarts to five per race? This needs to thus be applied to the CPU, that they have more problems on their sim run, too, not just the guys at the bottom of the leaderboard. 
The pit crew view from CMR3 was really cool and would be fun to see again.
Also, the wood fences crumble like kindling. Something tells me they don't go down that easy, since they're like 6 inches diameter and stuck in the ground. 


3a. Format. I love the clean appearance, but winning or even placing in the top three in a championship event overall comes with so little fanfare that it's like someone just tossed you a soggy sandwich in a wet paper sack as a reward for your hard days work. I know that's about how real rally is at the grassroots level, but this is a game, and as such, should include a bit of flare. I don't expect a parade, but just something to make it seem like it was time well spent. Unlocks are good this way. Also, stats are fun, like in the original DiRT. 
3b. Format of Events and the Menu. I love the original DiRT. I know it sounds like I want you to remake that (which I kinda do) but it was a fantastic game, and the layout of events available was really cool, as well as the variety. This game doesn't seem like one that will have that much, but that doesn't mean it can't have some subtle and aesthetically pleasing menu designs. 
3c. Buttons 1,2,3,4. This makes no sense on a controller or steering wheel, it's very confusing. If it's a menu item like that, let the keyboard numbers automatically double for whatever is listed.

4a. Gameplay: Grip Levels and Handling.  BRAVO! You nailed it, I think the cars handling characteristics are awesome. In my opinion, you don't need to change anything. The grip for the RWD's is perfect(ly slippy) and throttle based, the FWD is very LFB heavy for proper handling, and the 4WD's push a little and handle like they're pulling from the front and pushing from the rear drive wheels. I play this on a controller/gamepad, not a steering wheel, for whatever that's worth. I might add that I've raced rally in real life in all different wheelbase platforms, and this game accurately simulates the feel of a rally car. 
4b. Gameplay WRC: Sense of speed/actual speed in the WRC cars seems a little underwhelming for what they are. 
4c. Effects: LOVE THE DUST! :D Thank you for flooding the dry roads with it, and how it pours over the hood on certain plow-in turns. Again, freaking nailed it. 
4d. RBR: Repeat, not a fun game, don't replicate it's wall-punching drivability difficulty. You've done so great already in making this game drive perfect, don't fix what isn't broken. But for those who want to torture themselves, maybe the option to lower the grip could be added?

5a. Replay. The replay cameras, while some are good, there's too much in-car, and too much helo. I agree with the other guy in this thread somewhere who recommended a lot more out of car shots. I want more go-pro wheel shots and such, but I really want cool drone views and "pro cameraman" views, too. Like the drone at the start line, who's footage we never see...That person also suggested being able to cut our replays together through for youtube clips, and that'd be a cool feature for that one perfect run, etc. 
5b. Replay music. It's pretty dull. I didn't love the music from Dirt 2 and 3, but it was really good at keeping the blood flowing while you watch your killer replay. 

A specific little fix:

There's a couple notes that seemed to come way late in Monte Carlo Turini Descent, a right 4 and a right 3 tightens, not in sequence.

Thanks for your time, I hope my feedback is helpful. I just want to see this game be the best rally game ever. :)






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OK I've tried to stay away from a RBR discussion here, but I need to adress this topic. I will actually start with another example to begin with:

I've been "playing" flying simulators (rotary wing is my thing, fixed wing aircrafts are boring for me) since I got my first computer. Actually, there were helicopter "simulators" made for Amiga before, so it began even earlier for me. I've been playing pretty much RBR since it's release date (I was enjoying CMR series before). Now there is one common issue with all true, realistic simulators that makes them enjoyable for simulators enthusiasts, and makes them unnaproachable for everyone elese unless certain features are introduced. The term is:

LEARNING CURVE.

It takes a lot of time to learn how to fly (controll) a virtual helicopter. It is actually arguably more difficult than driving a car in RBR. It is certainly much more difficult than flying a real thing (as was mentioned by all real life helicopter pilots I came across). It takes just as much time to learn all the aircraft systems, instruments, procedures. It takes time to learn how to communicate with other pilots, air traffic control guys, etc. It takes time to be fluent with all above separately. Imagine how much time and effort it takes to get You to the point where You can do all of them at once.

1How to approach learining curve, so casual players are attracted? Simplify each step (control, system, communication), make them automated, or remove something alltogether. If You don't, casual player will leave since they are not willing to spend time learning. They want to experience something that is extremally difficult and complex without much effort. They don't want 1/1 representation, they want an illusion. Example of such product: Microsoft Flight. Project dead and studio closed about two month after release (?) despite a great support from simulation crowd on a conceptual stage of game development. Developers did not listen/ care, casual players bought the game, but since their attention spawn is short, they moved over to other casual games. Dedicated simulation crowd did not care since the product did not appeal to them.
2How to approach learning curve, so simulator enthusiasts are attracted? Make a realistic representation of each system, and let player explore and learn each one as the learning part is what simulator fans enjoy. Take that away, and customer will leave. This crowd wants 1/1 representation even, if it makes the experience more difficult than real life (since in a simulator You don't feel any forces with Your body, You get only visual imput i.e. when hovering a helicopter). They don't want any simplification, assists etc. They know that initially they are going to struggle, and they don't mind. The profficency progression is what they are about, that's the sattisfaction they're after. Example product: Microsoft Flight Simulator series, X- plane. Both products are still alive, both developers are still making money from simulator extensions (extension= pretty much a proffesionally made mod) made by independent studios via licence agreements.

3How to approach learning curve, so both casual, and dedicated players can enjoy a product, and developer makes money? It is difficult, but can be done. First let's look what doesn't work- making a casual game and trying to add realistic features that are not 100% accurate since the platform was not ment to support those (complex) systems in the first place. There are multiple examples of those. Also making a 100% realistic platform won't work in a long perspective, since simmulation crowd is dedicated, but much smaller than casual players. I will expand on finantial aspect of this topic later on. There are two ways to provide both above principles:

a) make two separate games
b) make single realistic simulator, and add assists/ difficulty option

It is easy to understand how a) will work. It is the most common approach. What is difficult about making a simulator is complexity of all the systems and features. In DiRT, that'd be mainly phyiscs. What's easy is- if You can make a realistic representation, You've succeeded. Casual games provide other challenges- game balance (You don't use real life data, but use a simplification that needs to be balanced, designed the right way). What is easy- all the features are simplified, less complex, and after right design choices are made, they don't take as much time to develop.

 As for b), there is a very important factor to understand- simulation crowd will stay away from casual games, since they hate the whole concept (I am sorry, but RBR crowd hates previous DiRT titles). On the other hand casual players not only don't mind a simulation approach if initial game options include "easy mode" (even by default), but will actually feel more immersed, since they are looking for an illusion. The whole concept of "I am driving a simulator, and I am good at it" is part of that illusion they are after.

How does the whole thing transfer over to DiRT Rally?
Make a realistic simulator, and THEN add an easy option on top of that. Does it mean the game will be "more difficult than real life" on realisic mode? YES, because You cannot experience any clues about what's going on with Your car other than visual clues and FFB. Getting a G force input with Your body is one of most important clues for real life drivers that we are missing in simulation.

Now, let's talk money.
We all must understand, that those products are not made "for fun", but those studios are running a business. They want money, so if they can release DiRT 4, and make a lot of $ from casual players, they will go down that road rather than making a simulator called DiRT Rally which will not give them as finantial benefits. Simulation crowd is dedicated, they are hungry for 1/1 simulator, but the initial revenue will not compare with DiRT 4 predictions. Combining both "realistic" and "easy" modes is a good way to combine $ income from both crowds. Since this board doesn't want to use subscribtion model (I expected dedicated simulation crowd will be willing to go down that road especially given current market situation in rally simulation departament, but I was wrong), that's the only realistic way for Codemasters to make it worth their time.

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Wow what a great game. Love it ( played 120 hours). Would love to see The "Race to the sky" from Cardrona valley New Zealand added to the hillclimb

The Repco Race to the Sky is now the longest gravel hillclimb in the world, following the sealing of the Pikes Peak hillclimb route. Competitors navigate the Cardrona Valley course that's 14.5 km in length, includes 135 corners and climbs from 450 to 1500 metres above sea level.

Could you also add the , Holden Torana XU1 in to the 70's cars please, It won The Australian Rally Championship in 1971, 1972 and 1974 

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IMPORTANT
1)Make more damage options! damage seems too redundant. like the front bumper trying to stay on etc.... make it more realistic... the hood bouncing around after it comes of the hinges.....I know its a beta but please...do it!

2)give us more replay angles and styles! it gets tiring watching it after a while.... copy WRC not the game like the real rally on TV..
example : you don't have a copter cam wherein you just hear the heli's rotors.... that should be standard... and where are the fans.. add more things to distract us...
we don't need music.. so i guess have an option to just keep it off...when on replays... or just add our own.

3)when going off track... please let us try to get back on it! WE DO NOT NEED A TIMER! and then just magically being transported back on track... Its a sim after all....
example in monte carlo.... when you hit a hairpin and just clip a bit of snow ... you get a penalty like cmon...-.- too weird to arcade like...

4)Please let us control the car and bring it to the start line....... and the same goes after the finish line... let us guide it to a stop or a pit. please please please!!!!

im not sure bout this but all your roads are too narrow...and look the same in my opinion... roadways are diverse sometimes very wide... I start a stage and every width of the road feels the same.... make it realistic....

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Loving the game, but having trouble hearing my co-driver using the dashboard/helmet cams. Maybe make it possible to adjust all sounds from 10-100 instead of 50-100? Running with flat-hi dynamic range on an analogue 5.1 headset. Apart from that, keep on what you're doing, looking forward to finland :)

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