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Feeling a bit disenchanted...

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Posted (edited)

So, I’ve been with DR2.0 since the beginning. I’ve seen the improvements that have been made throughout the game, I’ve seen the willingness to at least listen to us between Christina and @PJTierney when we’ve had our gripes about the game. But, I’m feeling pretty put out with Codemasters, I hate to say it.

The continuing issues with DLC downloads is a bit of a joke. The first time it happens, sure, chalk it off to an error. But, when we’re almost done with season 2 content and Estering just today became available on my US Xbox, when I paid extra to have it the day of release via deluxe edition; I’ve lost my patience. Then, to top it off, as usual in my rallycross experience in this game, I can’t see the start lights in the cockpit so I have to rely on the spotter. Okay, sure, whatever, your vision is limited in car. THEN, when I am doing the daily RX challenge, I don’t get told that I have to take the joker next lap as it’s the last (no HUD to see lap counter) and get a time penalty for not taking it? The spotter NEVER SAID IT. Maybe it’s an audio bug with Estering, but COME ON. 

Speaking of audio bugs, the audio cut out is STILL present however many months after release. Doing the daily challenge with Group B RWD in Spain, and I get about 1/3 of the way into the stage and poof. Nothing. Just this game. Not any other game have I had this issue. For a game that’s been out for this long, I just don’t know how this has not been figured out yet. It’s frustrating, to say the least. 

Now that season 3 and 4 have been announced, I definitely am not willing to pay extra for a season pass or whatever, based on the experiences with DLC on this game. I’ll pay on a per-DLC basis instead, since that seems to be the way to actually play what you pay for. Another gripe is that yes, this DLC is probably 75% recycled content from Dirt Rally 1. Sure, it’s been updated. Yes, I am looking forward to tally Finland and Greece, the same as I’ve enjoyed the updated Monte Carlo, Sweden, Germany, etc. Having the classic subaru, Ford Focus 2001, those cars are my rally loves. But, really, I think I would’ve been more happy just paying for this content on an updated, improved upon, expanded Dirt Rally 1, then to pay extra for things I’ve already experienced just because it’s “updated” and then not have it work the majority of the time. 

There was a time that I would’ve pre-ordered the newest Grid game, the next F1 game, etc as soon as they become available. But, I’m sorry Codemasters, if this is the way loyal customers are going to be treated and this is the way you’re approaching business now, it’s going to take a bit more convincing than just some pretty screenshots to fork over my money willingly.

Sorry for the long post! These thoughts have been brewing since the game’s release. 😕

Edited by tharding67
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Yeah DR 2.0 has had a rough ride. Rushed, poorly tested, underdeveloped, overlooked or otherwise - it’s a shame. I still play daily, but I am frustrated by many things. Improper pace notes, half baked FFB, DLC issues, audio bug, too many dark/night stages etc. All that said, I still thoroughly enjoy the game. Some of the beatings Codie’s have taken are justified, others are knee-jerk given the issues at hand before them. Either way, for all it does wrong, or doesn’t do as well as one could have expected after the home run that was DR1, it’s is still a very competent Rally Sim. All in all I love it, love hating it, and hate loving it - but above all else: I keep coming back for more. In time the bugs will get ironed, but this has been a valuable lesson I hope in that sometimes delayed release and deferred revenue stream goes a long way to ensuring long term success, and not tarnishing what until now was a glaringly positive community of Rally die hards.

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Posted (edited)

The fact that this game is so close to being perfect makes its issues all the more pronounced. 

The core driving experience - absolutely exceptional. The locations and vehicles we'll have by Season 4 - absolutely exceptional! It just makes the many little things wrong with the game all that more frustrating - knowing that they weren't present in DR, and knowing the all-time-great potential of this game.

 

For me personally it's:

  • Clubs: Only a single class supported per championship. Only 12 stages supported. Tuning glitch (being worked on thankfully). This just limits the experience we can have in Clubs - which is what the game's all about for me right now. Community experience!
  • Liveries: Not being able to use the folder method / access texture files for all these incredible DLC cars is absolutely criminal. This needs to be fixed. This partial mod-support approach is torture, honestly. 
  • Audio Bug: I'm not getting this, but people I play with are, and if I was I wouldn't be happy. 

 

I'd happily continue paying a lot for new content if they fix these issues and continue to build on this exceptional platform. 

What they can't do is move on to DiRT 5 / DiRT Rally 3.0 if they're just going to start from scratch and re-introduce these issues / more regressions in the next game.

Edited by pigloaf
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3 hours ago, tharding67 said:

The continuing issues with DLC downloads is a bit of a joke. The first time it happens, sure, chalk it off to an error. But, when we’re almost done with season 2 content and Estering just today became available on my US Xbox, when I paid extra to have it the day of release via deluxe edition; I’ve lost my patience.

Yeah the continual issues every DLC release is kinda silly. The first few times, I could understand, but that it's still happening? On the other hand, I'm not sure I agree with your comment about the Deluxe version. To me, it was always a case of paying a chunk of money front, and getting a better deal compared to paying for each bit of DLC individually when they come out, thus ending up paying more in the long run.

RX stuff I completely agree with - I've tried playing with no HUD and it's just not practical like it is in rally.

Audio bug, supposedly being fixed, finally, in the next patch. Annoying that it's taken so long, but being a developer myself I can kinda understand that some things are just really obscure and hard to find the cause of. Still probably shouldn't have taken this long to fix though.

4 hours ago, tharding67 said:

pay extra for things I’ve already experienced just because it’s “updated” and then not have it work the majority of the time. 

Not sure I understand this. The DLC works fine? I mean sure, sometimes it's delayed by a few hours or whatever, but that's a temporary, minor inconvenience at worst.

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Yes, DR2.0 had a pretty hard start, with tonne of bugs, glitches etc., etc., etc.

Yes, DR2.0 is in good state now IMO, I'm satisfied with improved FFB, major bugs are gone for me.

Yes, DR2.0 is going to make players throw as much money as possible. First, becouse I believe both parts were expensive in production. Second becouse DR1 was rather cheap after all (first in early access, then in discounts). Third, becouse it is yet still meant for hardcore rally fans and it's going to brutally use their ability to spend that money.

I think proper time to buy DR2.0 was when it first time was 50% discounted (I'm interested in steam). It was in really good state then, and also in much more adequate price IMO. Maybe buying DLC after some time is also a good idea? Finland is the last one, so why not to wait anyway? 😄

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@tharding67 @Buckwilder @pigloaf @Pioy Thank you all for constructive feedback.

In regards to the DLC situation. Nearly all of the time its out of our hands and we have to work with other parties to get this resolved. Its not something that we enjoy happening either.

In regards to the FBB, we found that most players found the change we made to be a big improvement to what they wanted and we are still actively gathering feedback for further changes.

Co-drivers missing callouts, please stick any instances of this in the bug reporting thread and we will hopefully get chance to get round to fixing them all. We have fixed a few in past patches.

The audio bug has been our number one issue for a long time to track down. We have been trying to nail it down and have actually put several potential fixes in but sadly it appears to still be in the game. But just know thats its something we are working on. Not quite as easy to track down and fix as it may seem.

 

I hope this clears some of that up for you. Again thank you for playing the game and giving constructive feedback.

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9 hours ago, Buckwilder said:

Yeah DR 2.0 has had a rough ride. Rushed, poorly tested, underdeveloped, overlooked or otherwise - it’s a shame. I still play daily, but I am frustrated by many things. Improper pace notes, half baked FFB, DLC issues, audio bug, too many dark/night stages etc. All that said, I still thoroughly enjoy the game. Some of the beatings Codie’s have taken are justified, others are knee-jerk given the issues at hand before them. Either way, for all it does wrong, or doesn’t do as well as one could have expected after the home run that was DR1, it’s is still a very competent Rally Sim. All in all I love it, love hating it, and hate loving it - but above all else: I keep coming back for more. In time the bugs will get ironed, but this has been a valuable lesson I hope in that sometimes delayed release and deferred revenue stream goes a long way to ensuring long term success, and not tarnishing what until now was a glaringly positive community of Rally die hards.

Couldn’t agree more! I still play daily, doing the challenges before I head off to work. Like you said, I love the game and when it goes right, it really goes right. There’s some shining moments in the game (sunset in Germany and looking over at the hot air balloon with the sun setting behind is one of the things I like to remember). There’s also some major head-scratching moments in the game that, to a player like me with no developer knowledge and a limited business knowledge, make me a little disappointed. The DirtFish location, for example, feels half-baked in this game. It was a fun playground in dirt 4. Now, I know DR2.0 is a sim-based game and it was a free location so I can’t complain much, but it lost the spirit it had in the last title. The two games are meant for different crowds, but if you’re going to put it in, it just needs some character like it had before. 

Thank you @CM_Ads for lending your ears and fixing the things that you can. I know it’s no easy task, creating a video game. But, you guys have done brilliant work before, and the teething stages of this one have seemed a bit longer lasting than before. But, you’re taking some good steps in the right direction. 

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Posted (edited)

With that season3 and 4 you are true, i will not pay any extra money ! Peoples with deluxe content pack should have season 3 and 4 for free!!!!! It was not cheap

Edited by SoobaruTurbo215
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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, SoobaruTurbo215 said:

With that season3 and 4 you are true, i will not pay any extra money ! Peoples with deluxe content pack should have season 3 and 4 for free!!!!! It was not cheap

No, they shouldn't. The deluxe price was already a bargain (specially during the 50% sale), and it was announced since the begining, before even the game released that the Deluxe Edition would only include Season 1 and 2.

There was never any information leading otherwise. DLC is optional, you are not forced to buy it, but noone works for free either and the content they are bringing in have costs, licensing being one of the main costs. So that investment needs to get paid off.

Steam VR is already a free giveaway, and a big one. Sound updates as well.

Edited by Riggs
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Sometimes I think Codies have deployed some kind of satire entertainment program on the forums. ^^

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I feel sorry for PJ Tierney and some of the others that basically have to cover for ineptitude in their own company. That would get old in a hurry. 

F1 is a complete debacle in multiplayer.  Not a chance in hell I'm going to suffer through Grid. Grid is intended to be more arcade and F1 is to have some sim aspects. Yet even in ranked lobbies, you get pitted against assist and exterior cam wreck fest users constantly. Instead of making a healthy MP, they spent time on fake characters and then minimally used Senna and Prost.

No clue WTH is going on with the decision making at CM, but it is not great. 

 

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@CM_Ads @Riggs

Maybe I have dofferent look becouse I live in significantly poorer country compared to USA, UK, DE, but I disagree a bit. IMO launch price of Deluxe version was hell a lot of money, and standard version was done in way major goal was to convince players to buy deluxe upgrade even after. Launch content was IMO poor, thing I couldnt' forgive at most was 2-litre WRC removed from the game. I also think most players have assumed they will be given all DR1 rallies in deluxe upgrade packs. Now, to have two of them, we have to pay again. And I think discounts of DR2 are the proof I am a bit right. It's not that common for game to be 50% discounted so early. Sales were poor, discount was done for more people to buy the game, maybe even Greece and Finland was removed from season 2 after launch to get players desperate for this rallies to pay extra again. I don't know if it's true, it's just my thinking. But I see some signs. I'm happy with current state of game, but it's for me a bit like stretching the line.

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When a dev with the resources of Turn 10 charge extra on top of deluxe versions for DLC, I don’t really mind that Codies are doing it.

They are not a huge company and Dirt Rally is a very niche product compared to the Forza games.

IMO if you are a fan of this game then just be thankful we have it. Publishers/Devs seems to be diluting game experiences nowadays  in order to catch a bigger mainstream audience.

The niche products need support or we will lose them for good.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Edwards said:

When a dev with the resources of Turn 10 charge extra on top of deluxe versions for DLC, I don’t really mind that Codies are doing it.

They are not a huge company and Dirt Rally is a very niche product compared to the Forza games.

IMO if you are a fan of this game then just be thankful we have it. Publishers/Devs seems to be diluting game experiences nowadays  in order to catch a bigger mainstream audience.

The niche products need support or we will lose them for good.

Well said and right you are! I don’t get why some feel the need to trounce Codie’s at times. I understand the frustrations, but they are largely superficial at this point and the game is glorious in its best moments. If you love Rally - and I think we all do - let’s look to the bright side of things and be thankful for what is, instead of bashing what is not.

Edited by Buckwilder
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9 hours ago, Pioy said:

@CM_Ads @Riggs

Maybe I have dofferent look becouse I live in significantly poorer country compared to USA, UK, DE, but I disagree a bit. IMO launch price of Deluxe version was hell a lot of money, and standard version was done in way major goal was to convince players to buy deluxe upgrade even after. Launch content was IMO poor, thing I couldnt' forgive at most was 2-litre WRC removed from the game. I also think most players have assumed they will be given all DR1 rallies in deluxe upgrade packs. Now, to have two of them, we have to pay again. And I think discounts of DR2 are the proof I am a bit right. It's not that common for game to be 50% discounted so early. Sales were poor, discount was done for more people to buy the game, maybe even Greece and Finland was removed from season 2 after launch to get players desperate for this rallies to pay extra again. I don't know if it's true, it's just my thinking. But I see some signs. I'm happy with current state of game, but it's for me a bit like stretching the line.

the launch price of the the Deluxe version was completely in line with prices for games these days, at least in the US, EU, etc.

$60 for the base game, $80 for deluxe. I could get on the US PSN store right now and find a ton of games that follow the same model. In fact some games like Mortal Kombat 11 go up to $100 for the 'deluxe' edition. The base game had 6 rallies and even more rallycross than DR1. So the content is at least equivalent. 

Greece and Finland were not removed from Season 2 due to poor sales. They didn't trick anyone. They said from the outset that Season 2 would be focused on rallycross. It would have been nice to get at least one of those rallies during S1 or S2 but it is what it is. Of course they were going to hold back the two most popular locations for an extra season, it makes financial sense. But the DR1 rallies we got during S1 and S2 were really good ones. I'm sure nearly everyone wanted Monte Carlo and Wales, and Sweden was necessary to include in order to have one snow-based rally. We needed Germany too so we could have one more tarmac rally.

The individual locations are cheap enough, i think only $3.50 per location so to buy just Greece and Finland will cost only $7 extra. Fair I think. 

I'm not entirely happy with them recycling locations and would have liked just one new location but let's be fair when evaluating the DLC. it's not a bad deal overall.

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here's the thing i don't get,dirt rally 2.0 is the official game for rx so why have we not got all tracks from this year available in game from out set,only official game that does not give you all tracks for that discipline for this year.strange imagine if you had bought f1 game and only had half of the tracks,codies trying to pull a fast one on its fan base ????????

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You may feel disenchanted, my problem is I've never felt enchanted, who do I complain to?  😛

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8 hours ago, chrisjaf said:

here's the thing i don't get,dirt rally 2.0 is the official game for rx so why have we not got all tracks from this year available in game from out set,only official game that does not give you all tracks for that discipline for this year.strange imagine if you had bought f1 game and only had half of the tracks,codies trying to pull a fast one on its fan base ????????

It's not dirt WRX.  It is not primarily a rally cross game.  It was never marketed as such so far as I can recall.  Codemasters is trying to attract as wide a fanbase between both rally and RX within the small sim racing community, and the subset within that community interested in driving the dirt.  Not everyone will be enchanted but we can find some common ground and have some real fun with what we have 🦄🙂

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Posted (edited)
On 8/16/2019 at 10:46 PM, Bobby1976 said:

It's not dirt WRX.  It is not primarily a rally cross game.  It was never marketed as such so far as I can recall.  Codemasters is trying to attract as wide a fanbase between both rally and RX within the small sim racing community, and the subset within that community interested in driving the dirt.  Not everyone will be enchanted but we can find some common ground and have some real fun with what we have 🦄🙂

facts are facts dirt rally 2.0 is the official game of the rx championship.like it or not

Edited by chrisjaf

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On 8/16/2019 at 2:41 AM, Tranzitive said:

the launch price of the the Deluxe version was completely in line with prices for games these days, at least in the US, EU, etc.

$60 for the base game, $80 for deluxe. I could get on the US PSN store right now and find a ton of games that follow the same model. In fact some games like Mortal Kombat 11 go up to $100 for the 'deluxe' edition. The base game had 6 rallies and even more rallycross than DR1. So the content is at least equivalent. 

Greece and Finland were not removed from Season 2 due to poor sales. They didn't trick anyone. They said from the outset that Season 2 would be focused on rallycross. It would have been nice to get at least one of those rallies during S1 or S2 but it is what it is. Of course they were going to hold back the two most popular locations for an extra season, it makes financial sense. But the DR1 rallies we got during S1 and S2 were really good ones. I'm sure nearly everyone wanted Monte Carlo and Wales, and Sweden was necessary to include in order to have one snow-based rally. We needed Germany too so we could have one more tarmac rally.

The individual locations are cheap enough, i think only $3.50 per location so to buy just Greece and Finland will cost only $7 extra. Fair I think. 

I'm not entirely happy with them recycling locations and would have liked just one new location but let's be fair when evaluating the DLC. it's not a bad deal overall.

I was going to have a little moan about the Rally tracks should of came before RX tracks and should never of been held back for season 3 & 4 instead of season 2 but Codies pricing nails it for me. The DLC if you dont buy the season pass is perfect pricing unlike alot of other games (my 8 year old son has me buying 20 quid season passes every 3 months on Fortnite). I guess Codies holding back the Rally tracks will also prolong the game for those that love it.

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On 8/15/2019 at 3:33 AM, tharding67 said:

The continuing issues with DLC downloads is a bit of a joke. The first time it happens, sure, chalk it off to an error. But, when we’re almost done with season 2 content and Estering just today became available on my US Xbox, when I paid extra to have it the day of release via deluxe edition; I’ve lost my patience. 😕

I know how you feel, it's not ideal. We all know it and are doing what can be done to improve it for future releases 🙂 

 

Quote

Then, to top it off, as usual in my rallycross experience in this game, I can’t see the start lights in the cockpit so I have to rely on the spotter. Okay, sure, whatever, your vision is limited in car. THEN, when I am doing the daily RX challenge, I don’t get told that I have to take the joker next lap as it’s the last (no HUD to see lap counter) and get a time penalty for not taking it? The spotter NEVER SAID IT. Maybe it’s an audio bug with Estering, but COME ON. 

Estering only?

Drop it in the 1.7 bug thread if you haven't already. if the team can reproduce it they may be able to issue a fix.

 

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Speaking of audio bugs, the audio cut out is STILL present however many months after release. Doing the daily challenge with Group B RWD in Spain, and I get about 1/3 of the way into the stage and poof. Nothing. Just this game. Not any other game have I had this issue. For a game that’s been out for this long, I just don’t know how this has not been figured out yet. It’s frustrating, to say the least. 

I've been told we're close to resolving this one. it might be sorted in 1.8 but i don't want to make any promises untilI i have the patch notes 🙂 

 

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Sorry for the long post! These thoughts have been brewing since the game’s release.

It's totally fine 🙂 Your feedback was honest, calm and constructive, that's always appreciated even when people aren't happy with their experience.

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