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Total cost of Dirt Rally 2.0

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so when seasons 3 & 4 comes out to purchase it will be nearly £100 for Dirt Rally 2.0. 

A game that is no different in content to it predecessor, Dirt Rally. Bear in mind the only thing we have is improved visuals and handling for a sequel that should have included all that from launch.

Don't get me wrong, i love DR 2.0, really enjoying it but when you think about it all these improvements should have been included, yet we still have no brand new content, which is what i thought we would have got as DLC or even in base game. 

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What about Poland, New Zealand, New England, Argentina, Porsches (the whole RGT class, really), a bunch of new RX tracks, etc.  

There is new content.  Maybe not a lot though.  I agree that we should have expected all the previous content plus some new stuff right from launch.  I also agree that paying for DLC that is just our old favorites from DR1 is a bit disappointing,  but they *are* favorites and the more places to rally, the longer I will keep playing the game.  

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Bobby1976 said:

I also agree that paying for DLC that is just our old favorites from DR1 is a bit disappointing

So you expect that all location released by CM in the past should be added to all incoming games for free? Or maybe CM even would pay us for using them?

I have no idea in what world you are living, but guys, your expectations are from another planet 😉
 

34 minutes ago, watzcoc said:

yet we still have no brand new content

Did anybody promised that?
AFAIK there is no single rule defining a content of DLCs, or even promising DLC will see a light of day.

At the end nobody forces you to buy them all. Stay with content you are happy with.

 

Edited by MaXyMsrpl
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Question is, would you want to pay €3,49 for one updated DR1 location, or would you pay let's say €12,50  (due to extra licensing costs and a lot more development time) for a total new location (not being a DR1 or DR2 location)?

There are two views on this:
A) Like with RX, old locations return with a few new locations, and other new rally location will come as DLC.
So let's say the 6 DR1 location + 2/3 DR2 locations were at launch. And the remaining 3/4 locations would have been split between the first two seasons of DLC but with an higher price, maybe 7 euro a piece.

B) As now with rally. Everyone gets the new tracks with release. If you want the old but updated locations as well (which was highly wanted by the community), than they are offered as DLC for a lower price. 

I think overall it is not bad with the vision from B. You can enjoy the new locations. And if you want also to have the other DR1 locations, than you can buy it. Also I think with this vision CM have covered their costs in their base game. Although looking back, I think vision A is more understandable/acceptable for a regular gamer than vision B.

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1 hour ago, watzcoc said:

so when seasons 3 & 4 comes out to purchase it will be nearly £100 for Dirt Rally 2.0. 

A game that is no different in content to it predecessor, Dirt Rally. Bear in mind the only thing we have is improved visuals and handling for a sequel that should have included all that from launch.

Don't get me wrong, i love DR 2.0, really enjoying it but when you think about it all these improvements should have been included, yet we still have no brand new content, which is what i thought we would have got as DLC or even in base game. 

I agree that the total cost of the game is far too expensive. Obscene even.  

Of course, Codemasters are a business and need to make a profit in order to survive and continue making games - i get that. 

However, since DLC became a thing, it has resulted in developers giving less and less base-game content and charging extra for stuff that should have been in the original game anyway.

Think back to PS1 and PS2 times - those rally games had all of the rallies on the base game and loads and loads of cars too. It was all released together because they couldn't do patches or extra content back then, 

Now DLC is used to further exploit customers for extortionate profits, and it is unnecessary. 

It has become an aggressive marketing and sales space where gamers are milked of cash to experience a full game, or tempted into paid add-ons to have an advantage or progress through games more quickly, when there just used to be in-game cheatcodes for those things. 

Oh how things have changed.

 

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Posted (edited)

not speaking about bugs on release and even year after.

Yes you are right. But you know what?  it's because we buy that anyway. Hard to blame business factory for not being altruistic 😉

Edited by MaXyMsrpl

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51 minutes ago, bigburt82 said:

I agree that the total cost of the game is far too expensive. Obscene even.  

Of course, Codemasters are a business and need to make a profit in order to survive and continue making games - i get that. 

However, since DLC became a thing, it has resulted in developers giving less and less base-game content and charging extra for stuff that should have been in the original game anyway.

Think back to PS1 and PS2 times - those rally games had all of the rallies on the base game and loads and loads of cars too. It was all released together because they couldn't do patches or extra content back then, 

Now DLC is used to further exploit customers for extortionate profits, and it is unnecessary. 

It has become an aggressive marketing and sales space where gamers are milked of cash to experience a full game, or tempted into paid add-ons to have an advantage or progress through games more quickly, when there just used to be in-game cheatcodes for those things. 

Oh how things have changed.

 

ugh, this argument is so played out.

as has been said elsewhere, making locations back in the PS1/PS2 days was way, way easier and therefore cheaper - and licensing cars especially was also waaaay cheaper.

prices for the base version of a game have been basically flat since then - and have gone down if you count inflation. the DLC for this game is cheap, but there's a lot of it - it's doubling the number of locations (ok, almost - we started with 8 RX tracks and there will be 7 DLC ones), adding a test location, and 26 cars.

26? that's the number of vehicles you could expect in a whole game from that time period. for example: Colin McRae Rally 2005 has 9 locations and 30ish cars. the base game of DR2 has 14 locations and 47ish cars (if I remember correctly), and will have 31 and 70+ when we're done.

sure, we played those PS2/PS1 games like crazy when they came out, but going back to them now is hard without the nostalgia factor. I can still play the **** out of (the PS2 version of) NFS Hot Pursuit 2 (2002), but I tried Colin McRrae: Dirt (2007) a couple of years ago and it was almost unplayable: even though the graphics are better, it's more challenging, the car list is bigger and has more variety, there are more locations... but I just don't have an emotional connection to it, so it just kind of felt old and crappy compared to Dirt 3 (what I was playing at the time).

I agree that DLC is often used in an exploitative way, but CM are clearly trying to offer the maximum amount of stuff without losing money.

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i mean Ive definitely paid $100 for the past few Forza games each, and that's fine.

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5 hours ago, ianism said:

I can still play the **** out of (the PS2 version of) NFS Hot Pursuit 2 (2002), but I tried Colin McRrae: Dirt (2007) a couple of years ago and it was almost unplayable: even though the graphics are better, it's more challenging, the car list is bigger and has more variety, there are more locations... but I just don't have an emotional connection to it, so it just kind of felt old and crappy compared to Dirt 3 (what I was playing at the time).

Interesting. After Dirt Rally I retroactively went back and have now played the entire Dirt series, along with the entire Grid series. I can only play Dirt 1 on PS3, and my biggest issue with it. Crappy PS3 controller and 720p on a single monitor. Ew.

 

I'll give the reworked locations a slide on this game. They're reworked and not just a straight port with new models, terrain, and textures. If they're still paid DLC in DR3 or whatever, I'll be upset. They're designed to not really need licenses from what I understand, and most racing games add more content with each iteration. If CM has such a hard time keeping vehicle licenses for more than a single game, they should at least be able to keep using their locations to add to the roster.

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6 hours ago, ianism said:

ugh, this argument is so played out.

as has been said elsewhere, making locations back in the PS1/PS2 days was way, way easier and therefore cheaper - and licensing cars especially was also waaaay cheaper.

prices for the base version of a game have been basically flat since then - and have gone down if you count inflation. the DLC for this game is cheap, but there's a lot of it - it's doubling the number of locations (ok, almost - we started with 8 RX tracks and there will be 7 DLC ones), adding a test location, and 26 cars.

26? that's the number of vehicles you could expect in a whole game from that time period. for example: Colin McRae Rally 2005 has 9 locations and 30ish cars. the base game of DR2 has 14 locations and 47ish cars (if I remember correctly), and will have 31 and 70+ when we're done.

sure, we played those PS2/PS1 games like crazy when they came out, but going back to them now is hard without the nostalgia factor. I can still play the **** out of (the PS2 version of) NFS Hot Pursuit 2 (2002), but I tried Colin McRrae: Dirt (2007) a couple of years ago and it was almost unplayable: even though the graphics are better, it's more challenging, the car list is bigger and has more variety, there are more locations... but I just don't have an emotional connection to it, so it just kind of felt old and crappy compared to Dirt 3 (what I was playing at the time).

I agree that DLC is often used in an exploitative way, but CM are clearly trying to offer the maximum amount of stuff without losing money.

Erm, I think not. When the XB1 was released games immediately rose from £39.99 (X360 general rrp) to £49.99 and have since risen further to £54.99 - with *some* top end EA games weighing in at £59.99.. I've no idea where you come from but in the UK those price hikes are well OVER combined rates of inflation for the respective time perriod. 

Regarding cars in games. The original Gran Turismo shipped with (I think) 170+ cars and 11 locations so not quite sure where you're coming from with that one either

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23 minutes ago, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

When the XB1 was released games immediately rose from £39.99 (X360 general rrp) to £49.99 and have since risen further to £54.99 - with *some* top end EA games weighing in at £59.99

Games (in the USA at least) have basically been $59.99 since the original Xbox and PS2. I think PS1 and Game Cube were the last two consoles to see consistent releases at $49.99

So yes, games pricing hasn't changed for the most part in the place a large majority of game studios reside. Overseas maybe they increased a bit sure, but for the most part they were pretty steady.

 

Not to mention you reference the original GT - no **** it was easier to model 170+ cars when all of them have less polygons than the goddamn windshield does in DR2.0. Same with the locations - the amount of detail we have in a single 10m x 10m "grid" in DR2.0 probably trumps the total poly counts of the entire location back then.

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all that being said, I think it's obvious that the three classes of rally cars that were made DLC were picked because they're probably among most popular classes for each type of drivetrain, so they were chosen on purpose to sell more DLC bundles, which I'm not ultra happy about. I feel like they could at least have given us the Impreza & Focus 2001 in the base game and made like a couple of the R5 cars or something DLC instead.

2 minutes ago, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

Erm, I think not. When the XB1 was released games immediately rose from £39.99 (X360 general rrp) to £49.99 and have since risen further to £54.99 - with *some* top end EA games weighing in at £59.99.. I've no idea where you come from but in the UK those price hikes are well OVER combined rates of inflation for the respective time perriod. 

Regarding cars in games. The original Gran Turismo shipped with (I think) 170+ cars and 11 locations so not quite sure where you're coming from with that one either

the base game of Dirt Rally 2.0 is 69$ Canadian without tax on Steam (yeah, tax is not included in the sticker price of things here. and every province has different taxes. it's a pain lol), and you can buy a new physical copy for PS4 for 70$ (I happened to see one yesterday). AC Odyssey base version is 80$ (though currently you can get the gold edition for 52!)

I bought GTA San Andreas in 2004 for 65$. around the same time, I paid 74$ for Tekken 5. SSX 3 was 70$.

I missed the PS3/XB360 generation because I wasn't really playing games then and I was at uni in Edinburgh, so I can't speak on that. but I remember the prices of PS2 games I bought pretty well because I had an allowance at the time and so I had to figure out how many weeks in advance I had to save in order to be able to get it. (I know, life is so hard for an upper-middle class straight white teenager 😉)

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PS2 Games were expensive. But atleast they not had dlcs (Thanks God) it was better when consoles not had internet But everything have its minuses for example not able to update the game or system but atleast on bright side the game came with worth of content,Today games are just full of dlcs.

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The price is ridiculous for old content.

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Posted (edited)

you mean 3.5$ per location is ridiculously too much?

Edited by MaXyMsrpl
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4 minutes ago, chukonu said:

Just don't buy the extra content if you don't want to?

I'm really not buying anything, until the game bugs have been fixed.

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59 minutes ago, J89 said:

I'm really not buying anything, until the game bugs have been fixed.

Great!

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14 hours ago, JZStudios said:

I'll give the reworked locations a slide on this game. They're reworked and not just a straight port with new models, terrain, and textures. If they're still paid DLC in DR3 or whatever, I'll be upset. They're designed to not really need licenses from what I understand, and most racing games add more content with each iteration. If CM has such a hard time keeping vehicle licenses for more than a single game, they should at least be able to keep using their locations to add to the roster.

These are my thoughts on the matter. If the old locations had been brought in as straight ports, then I would much less enthusiastic and, as said, if the same is done for DR3/D5 then I'll be annoyed. 

I know some people are still experiencing issues, but my DR2.0 experience has been enjoyable and largely bug free thus far, so I am happy to continue supporting the game. 

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Posted (edited)

the price of video games has not increased for over 10 years. 

that is a LONG time. i don't entirely agree with the method of selling all sorts of extras as DLC, and some publishers are extremely predatory about it. 

but all those DLC extras are what help keep the base game at $60. 

what would you rather have: all the content included at launch, no DLC, but the game costs $100. you either buy it or you don't.

OR - the base game costs $60, includes most of the content. it's your choice to buy extra content if you want, and you can choose how much to spend. only want Finland, Greece, and Wales, and a few cars? just spend $10 or something on those. want all the extra content? buy the season pass/deluxe content pack or whatever it's called for $20. want all of the new extra content? buy the season pass again. or don't, if you don't like the content. entirely the customer's choice.

i've mentioned before that i would have liked some new rally stages for DR2.0 rather than entirely recycled rally content. but we are at least getting some new Rx content. and the prices are fair.

then you have MK11 which cost $100 for the base game + kombat pack together, and the kombat pack includes a pathetic 6 characters released in a purposefully-drip fed release. and half those characters aren't even new. now THAT'S predatory.

if you spend $100 on DR2.0 you get 12 rally locations, 13 Rx locations, and like 70 cars or something (i can't even be bothered to count, there are a lot of cars), some of which are new or at least have not been seen in rally games for ages. 

 

Edited by Tranzitive
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I rather spend 100 euro for DiRT Rally 2.0... than 7,99 euro for WRC7 in a discount.

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23 hours ago, ianism said:

26? that's the number of vehicles you could expect in a whole game from that time period. for example: Colin McRae Rally 2005 has 9 locations and 30ish cars. the base game of DR2 has 14 locations and 47ish cars (if I remember correctly), and will have 31 and 70+ when we're done.

Grand Turismo 4 launched in 2004/5 with 700+ cars and 50+ tracks. No payed DLC nonsense.

CMR 1, 2 & 3, 04 and 05 launched with 8-9 proper RALLY locations with multiple stages...  not single track 1.2km RX nonsense. No payed DLC nonsense.

Not sure what any of this is supposed to prove tbh. 🙂

Saying DR2 will have 31 different locations all told isn't comparing apples with apples. It will still only have 6 rally locations, everything else costs more money - that's they point people are making here.

16 hours ago, SkiddyMcCrash said:

The cost of inflation in the UK according to the Bank of England

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator

£40 in 2000 = £66.14 in 2018

£75 in 2005 (Cost of Forza VIP) = £110

£75 in 2009 (Cost of COD MW2 VIP)= £98.83

£65 IN 2019 (DiRT Rally 2.0 Deluxe Edition)

Cool. And back then CM could sell 1-3 million copies of a rally game... so what happened?

Infographic of Dirt game sales.

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Posted (edited)

And the older game, the fewer cars.

Personally I don't understand chasing off for more and more cars in single games. I don't believe it's possible to produce 700+ cars maintaining quality especially in physics department.

years ago a game representing single season was enough. See CMR1, see GTR1 or GPL. I think similar approach is valid even today for F1 series or ACC

Edited by MaXyMsrpl
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