Why don't codemasters allow us to play the complete stages?

[Geluco 16]

As you know each localitation has 12 stages but these stage are really one long stage of about 25 km. But I don't  know why codemasters don't allow us to run on the complete stage, it would be fantastic to run in a 25 km stage in both directions.

[Mike Dee 1,248]

EGO engine limitations. Since DR1 they have been trying to stitch Monte Carlo together to complete the full up-and-over mountain pass. Unfortunately it has always had issues once they reached a certain stage length.

Why does the engine have issues? I won't attempt to answer that, I don't do game dev for a reason. But it has been stated numerous times since they tried that it is an engine limitation they want to overcome but haven't been able to yet. Sadly I think it will require an entire engine overhaul, something you rarely will see happen in a single title - they normally do it with the next iteration of the game since rewriting the engine effectively makes the game disc useless. Everyone would have to go 100% digital install which is not a good thing for consoles. 

[Geluco 16]

5 minutes ago, Mike Dee said:

EGO engine limitations. Since DR1 they have been trying to stitch Monte Carlo together to complete the full up-and-over mountain pass. Unfortunately it has always had issues once they reached a certain stage length.

Why does the engine have issues? I won't attempt to answer that, I don't do game dev for a reason. But it has been stated numerous times since they tried that it is an engine limitation they want to overcome but haven't been able to yet. Sadly I think it will require an entire engine overhaul, something you rarely will see happen in a single title - they normally do it with the next iteration of the game since rewriting the engine effectively makes the game disc useless. Everyone would have to go 100% digital install which is not a good thing for consoles. 

What a shame, it would have been amazing...

[75Vette 509]

8 hours ago, Geluco said:

As you know each localitation has 12 stages but these stage are really one long stage of about 25 km. But I don't  know why codemasters don't allow us to run on the complete stage, it would be fantastic to run in a 25 km stage in both directions.

Are you sure? I haven't look closely, but I was under the impression that the longest stage length we currently have is the whole location, and everything else is a cut down version.

8 hours ago, Mike Dee said:

EGO engine limitations. Since DR1 they have been trying to stitch Monte Carlo together to complete the full up-and-over mountain pass. Unfortunately it has always had issues once they reached a certain stage length.

Why does the engine have issues? I won't attempt to answer that, I don't do game dev for a reason. But it has been stated numerous times since they tried that it is an engine limitation they want to overcome but haven't been able to yet. Sadly I think it will require an entire engine overhaul, something you rarely will see happen in a single title - they normally do it with the next iteration of the game since rewriting the engine effectively makes the game disc useless. Everyone would have to go 100% digital install which is not a good thing for consoles. 

Do you have links to those comments? This seems like a crazy limitation.

[SkiddyMcCrash 311]

1 hour ago, JesseDeya said:

Are you sure? I haven't look closely, but I was under the impression that the longest stage length we currently have is the whole location, and everything else is a cut down version.

Do you have links to those comments? This seems like a crazy limitation.

He's right, on both counts. It was discussed plenty of times on the old forum, before and during DR 1 Early Access

Col de Turini https://www.rally-maps.com/Rallye-Antibes-Côte-d-Azur-2018/La-Bollène-Col-du-Turini-Peira-Cava

Ouninpohja https://www.rally-maps.com/Rally-Finland-2017/Ouninpohja

[75Vette 509]

You’ve misunderstood my question. I didn’t ask if Rally stages IRL are that long, we all know they are. 

I was asking if the OP was sure there was really 25km of unique stage in DR2 that could be run as one stage. That seems to be what his post is suggesting. I can see how this could be interpreted different ways. 

[SkiddyMcCrash 311]

My bad. He is right in saying that Codies tried to create the full length stages but were unable to do so due to the limitations of the EGO engine which is not only getting rather old now, but wasn't originally created purely for racing games. As I said in my last post, it was discussed in great detail before work began on DR1 and during the Early Access phase of it's release on the old forums. Unfortunately we can't give you links to those conversations as the old forums no longer exist.

[bogani 756]

2 hours ago, JesseDeya said:

You’ve misunderstood my question. I didn’t ask if Rally stages IRL are that long, we all know they are. 

I was asking if the OP was sure there was really 25km of unique stage in DR2 that could be run as one stage. That seems to be what his post is suggesting. I can see how this could be interpreted different ways. 

They picked one single long stage to recreate(ish) for each country. It's then split up into two separate stages. 

In Monte for example, one starts at the bottom and end up in the snowy village on the top. The other stage starts at the snowy village on top and brings you down the other side of the mountain. 

The village on the top is the mid point of the IRL Col de Turini stage. 

The stages are created like this for every location. I think New England is the only one that haven't been pinpointed to its IRL counterpart, which probably isn't even in New England. 

[chukonu 476]

@bogani

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1aFkPyi-xfrXVeD92mQH1NRTYjHZZWv16&ll=47.610681059337814%2C-121.7188645&z=13

[PJTierney 4,910]

I cobbled these together back around March.

 

Not feasible for DiRT Rally 2.0 but maybe a future title, who knows 🙂 

[Matt555 56]

A full col de turini looks absolutely insane! I'd also love the full Hafren

[chukonu 476]

Wonder what germany looks like with the maps overlayed.

[Geluco 16]

The long stage of Spain is part of the famous stage "El Priorat". It's a shame that we couldn't play the full stage but the recreation is excellent  👌👌

 

[75Vette 509]

Very informative post, thanks all for contributing and especially PJ for the maps.

What a terrible shame the limitation is the EGO engine.

 

[ianism 1,316]

3 hours ago, PJTierney said:

I cobbled these together back around March.

 

Not feasible for DiRT Rally 2.0 but maybe a future title, who knows 🙂 

any chance you could do this for the other stages in the game (including the upcoming ones when they drop)? it's super interesting.

[PJTierney 4,910]

28 minutes ago, ianism said:

any chance you could do this for the other stages in the game (including the upcoming ones when they drop)? it's super interesting.

I did these before I got hired, when I was less busy 😉 

Anybody that can screengrab and Photoshop should be able to help out though 🙂 

[caerphoto 323]

Here's Germany, Sweden and Wales. It's hard to line them up properly because they're apparently at slightly different angles, not simple aerial views. Hopefully this is close enough.

[75Vette 509]

Sigh.

How are full length stages not a thing? Codemasters please explain this embarrassing technical failure.

[Mike Dee 1,248]

@caerphoto oh god don't do this to me man. Imagine hitting Colin's Crest and then tearing into Hamra right after 😍 Or doing both stages of Wales in a single shot 😰

[PJTierney 4,910]

1 hour ago, JesseDeya said:

Sigh.

How are full length stages not a thing? Codemasters please explain this embarrassing technical failure.

 

The previous messages are a good summary. 

 

20 hours ago, Mike Dee said:

EGO engine limitations. Since DR1 they have been trying to stitch Monte Carlo together to complete the full up-and-over mountain pass. Unfortunately it has always had issues once they reached a certain stage length.

Why does the engine have issues? I won't attempt to answer that, I don't do game dev for a reason. But it has been stated numerous times since they tried that it is an engine limitation they want to overcome but haven't been able to yet. Sadly I think it will require an entire engine overhaul, something you rarely will see happen in a single title - they normally do it with the next iteration of the game since rewriting the engine effectively makes the game disc useless. Everyone would have to go 100% digital install which is not a good thing for consoles. 

 

7 hours ago, SkiddyMcCrash said:

My bad. He is right in saying that Codies tried to create the full length stages but were unable to do so due to the limitations of the EGO engine which is not only getting rather old now, but wasn't originally created purely for racing games. As I said in my last post, it was discussed in great detail before work began on DR1 and during the Early Access phase of it's release on the old forums. Unfortunately we can't give you links to those conversations as the old forums no longer exist.

 

[Riggs 1,668]

Working on a new engine, even if taking some things off the old EGO, takes a lot of time and resources. The only way to make this viable would be to have a core team working on it full time in the background.

A new engine would be amazing, as it would lift many of these limitations and would be better prepared for modern racing, specially if it's focused on simulation. But this is something that requires thorough planning and support. The whole CM community would be thrilled to hear that. Maybe for next generation consoles and gaming it wouldn't be a bad idea to star a new engine, or maybe that's what's being done already 🙂 

[MaXyMsrpl 281]

but once they decide to jump into it, it will cost the same effort and resources regardless they do that next year or in 5 years. So why not to invest into it right now (or 2 years ago actually).
You know... spending 5 years on making the same excuses is not a solution. Unless they've already done it anyway, but not implemented into DR2. But there were no gossips about it yet.

[UnderclassGDfan 479]

19 minutes ago, MaXyMsrpl said:

but once they decide to jump into it, it will cost the same effort and resources regardless they do that next year or in 5 years. So why not to invest into it right now (or 2 years ago actually).
You know... spending 5 years on making the same excuses is not a solution. Unless they've already done it anyway, but not implemented into DR2. But there were no gossips about it yet.

Maybe they waited for the specifications of the new console generation?

I know, it's very, very sad for the PC-Gamers, but the market looks at what the consoles can do.

 

I expect a big improvement in stage length in the first DiRT game for the next generation. Even if that means, it's only in 1080p/60fps.

Physics/stage length/realism > graphics

Just my oppinion 🙃

[75Vette 509]

5 hours ago, UnderclassGDfan said:

Maybe they waited for the specifications of the new console generation?

I know, it's very, very sad for the PC-Gamers, but the market looks at what the consoles can do.

 

I expect a big improvement in stage length in the first DiRT game for the next generation. Even if that means, it's only in 1080p/60fps.

Physics/stage length/realism > graphics

Just my oppinion 🙃

Nordschleife is ~20-25km (depending on configuration) and has been on consoles for ages. Gran Turismo 4 managed it on PS2. 

Console hardware is not an excuse, this is entirely within Codemaster’s ability to overcome. Desire and development resources however, that’s a different question. 

[RallyLover19 176]

On 8/29/2019 at 2:24 PM, Geluco said:

The long stage of Spain is part of the famous stage "El Priorat". It's a shame that we couldn't play the full stage but the recreation is excellent  👌👌

 

Wow that's a nivce comparison!

I don't understand why  the tarmac in DR 2.0 looks so yellowish like sand ...
Also i noticed the Sun light goes from the opposite direction in this game (casted shadows visible on the opposite sides)