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I'm trying to avoid mass refunds at the release date when people see how outdated game is.

Developers don't want it, because it's their money, and I as customer don't want it, coz it's my fun.

We all want the game to be better but we will not help by ignoring its problems. Yes, GRID now looks way better. But war is not over :)

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6 hours ago, torque99uk said:

@CordedQuill42 After reading through the whole thread all again properly, in between the posts that defer from graphics I think @jesped and @lastbreath both agree the graphics in the new game (in most part) are improved with the new 4K visuals. They set this thread up to try and point out some of the bugs they have seen to improve the game and for the developers to notice and hopefully try and fix that are the same (or worse) than previous versions.

No one knows why this is the case so far (there must be a reason due to extra performance needed elsewhere) even with PC versions, as we know Codemasters can produce some beautiful graphics.

I also know how much work is involved in game developing and you can not just change details quickly over 3 different versions it takes time and that will be their decision on whether they concentrate on optimising the game or improving fine graphics detail (i.e cube map shadows).

I see there is a new bug thread set up so they do want to hear from the community.

At first I read it all as negativity too, but I think we have to all look at this thread together (and post launch) to point out graphical errors in a reasonable way with evidence (photos/videos) as they are doing. This helps the developers pin point the problem areas.

 

Mission Complete. Respect + *Insert GTA San Andreas mission complete soundtrack here*

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1 hour ago, lastbreath said:

I'm trying to avoid mass refunds at the release date when people see how outdated game is.

Developers don't want it, because it's their money, and I as customer don't want it, coz it's my fun.

We all want the game to be better but we will not help by ignoring its problems. Yes, GRID now looks way better. But war is not over :)

To be honest I don't really think there's enough of an issue in there for casual console gamers to start screaming refunds because the main positive is that it looks like Grid 2019 can be played 'straight out of the box'. For me personally there's nothing worse than purchasing a game only to find that it's broken to the point where you have to destroy the novelty period by playing it 'as is' or sitting and waiting for the long process of patching - and anyone who day 1 purchased Project Cars 1 and 2 should fully understand my point. So a big plus there.

Visuals (moreso the lighting) is my secondary concern because overdone lighting has a massive adverse effect on levels of immersion and I know i've already said this but it might look pretty and it might look realistic but in a racing game it serves no practical purpose. Subtle lighting to give the impression of time of day, absolutely, but a full on sunset/sunrise glarefest.....no thanks. But again a point that most will be unconcerned with.

To be brutally honest graphics are what I would class as functional or fit for purpose and whilst that's all well and good from your bog standard developers it's not really something you associate with Codemasters - but you know, (again) it's more than adequate for the casual audience and due to the fact Grid 2019 has no guarantees it will be a commercial success, in the real world I understand why development costs have to represent a fair reflection of potential returns and as a result corners will be cut in order to maintain financial viability. Like most I too would love the ideal world of the days of super-mega Codemasters but considering that the likes of Onrush, Dirt 4 and Dirt Rally 2 (all very pretty, all innovative in their own way and all developed with 'Codemasters love') didn't seem to have been particularly well received i'm not sure that's there to be had any more. Sure, for some it's disappointing but for most it's of no concern whatsoever.

Refunds? I don't think so. Those who don't believe Grid 2019 either represents value for money or carries the Codemasters seal of quality will just refrain from purchasing the game whilst the rest will preorder/purchase and probably enjoy it for what it is. Of course there will be that bizarre bunch of individuals who buy the game willy nilly and then complain bitterly how bad it is but I really don't understand their mentality nor their agenda so I tend to completely disregard them.  

I see a mid 80% game from industry reviews and a mid 70% user score.

(ps) I deliberately omitted Micro Machines from the list of recent games because it's just plain abysmal.

Edited by _BorisTheFrog_
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14 hours ago, cpcdem said:

I am pretty sure he is just kidding 🙂

Yeah, I am just kidding.

Personally, I’m more focused on the overall gameplay.  I figure, when I’m driving at 100+MPH I’m probably not going to be spending a lot of time sightseeing.  I would never have even noticed those reflections if they weren’t pointed out here.

Yeah, I saw the one pink tree in the other video that looked pretty ugly (Oxy Moron!).  But that would be very anal of me to judge an entire game on one tree.

Even in the video above, I watched the whole thing and didn’t notice the problem until I looked at the freeze frame photos where the reflections are circled.  In my opinion, if you have to do all that, it’s probably not something I’m going to worry about while racing.

But hey! This group has identified a problem and maybe it will end up making the game that much better… kudos to you.

But for me, even with the odd reflections and trees, this game still looks amazing!

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21 minutes ago, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

due to the fact Grid 2019 has no guarantees it will be a commercial success

Of course GRID has no guarantees with such visuals 😄

21 minutes ago, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

considering that the likes of Onrush, Dirt 4 and Dirt Rally 2 (all very pretty, all innovative in their own way and all developed with 'Codemasters love') didn't seem to have been particularly well received

Onrush was a failure because people wanted Motorstorm instead online-only racing (it could be a success)

Dirt 4 was a failure because it was outdated (it could be a success)

Rally is a niche game for hardcore racers.

So, no wonder they all are unpopular. Almost all marketing decisions were wrong. And now they are making the same mistake. GRID2019 is a semisim. So it has all chances to be popular. But with such visuals it will repeat DiRT4 fate.

Edited by lastbreath

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Also I want to remind:

This is DIRT2 (2009!!!) water

DiRT%202%20-%2010%20December%202009%20-%

This is DIRT Rally and Rally 2.0 water (2017 and 2019!!!)

dirtrallyarticle01.jpg

So this downgrade you can see in all CMs games! But WHY??? What new features could justify such a letdown? Till 2015 CMs games always were innovative! And now they are a pale shadow of themselves

Edited by lastbreath
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I really don’t understand the hate on visuals. Almost 100% of the videos I’ve seen have people actually praising the visuals. Sure if you watch frame by frame you will spot the cheats and tricks but nobody is gonna notice such things while playing. Ofcourse it is still very important to point out such flaws to push the developers to do better. Games mostly fail because of gameplay, not graphics. That being said, there has to be a reason for the cutback of some effects. Maybe damage simulation is more resource intensive? That explains why Grid never had rain before and all the other games with good examples of reflections have rather poor damage. The dirt series only has one car to simulate so it’s easier to amp up visuals. 

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6 minutes ago, Bluestig said:

there has to be a reason for the cutback of some effects

That's why I want clear answer from developers - what was so important to sacrifice graphics. But they are silent, so we can only guess.

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9 minutes ago, Bluestig said:

The dirt series only has one car to simulate so it’s easier to amp up visuals

That's why they cut off water physics...

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1 minute ago, lastbreath said:

That's why they cut off water physics...

Ok sometimes newer games have worse effects due to art decisions. But what is wrong with the newer water effects? If anything they look alot better and of more quantity in the picture you posted. 

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11 minutes ago, Bluestig said:

I really don’t understand the hate on visuals

Because GRID looks worse than any modern racing game.

Because GRID looks worse than GRID2/Autosport, 5/6 yo racing games!

And there is no reason in 100 gb game with such visuals! There is no reason to buy GRID if I still can play Autosport and get cool gameplay and BETTER VISUALS!

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2 minutes ago, Bluestig said:

what is wrong with the newer water effects?

Old water had its own physics and real waves. New water is just a plain texture with splash sprites.

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1 minute ago, lastbreath said:

Because GRID looks worse than any modern racing game.

Because GRID looks worse than GRID2/Autosport, 5/6 yo racing games!

And there is no reason in 100 gb game with such visuals! There is no reason to buy GRID if I still can play Autosport and get cool gameplay and BETTER VISUALS!

Ok that’s like your opinion. It may not look the best but in no way does it look worse than previous grids. 

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1 minute ago, lastbreath said:

Old water had its own physics and real waves. New water is just a plain texture with splash sprites.

Yeah I agree that the water physics are better in the old one. Maybe they thought it was unnecessary since the newer version covers it up anyway with the quantity of water?

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5 minutes ago, lastbreath said:

Because GRID looks worse than any modern racing game.

Because GRID looks worse than GRID2/Autosport, 5/6 yo racing games!

And there is no reason in 100 gb game with such visuals! There is no reason to buy GRID if I still can play Autosport and get cool gameplay and BETTER VISUALS!

Ouch!

 

Just curious (and I mean no disrespect), but if you dislike the graphics that much, why waste the energy complaining about it?  Why not just move on? 

I mean, the game is going to be released next week, chances are, they aren’t going to be able to make the corrections you’re requesting by then… why get frustrated over it?

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3 minutes ago, Bluestig said:

It may not look the best but in no way does it look worse than previous grids

I don't want to post all that pictures again, so just go to first pages of the thread. There are screens of GRID2, Autosport, NFS, Driveclub and GRID. You can compare them by yourself

 

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7 minutes ago, SourceCodeError said:

if you dislike the graphics that much, why waste the energy complaining about it?

1. I want developers to hear, because all these years I was waiting for a superb game, not for this outdated piece of code.

2. I want answer what was a reason of graphics downgrade.

Edited by lastbreath

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4 minutes ago, lastbreath said:

I don't want to post all that pictures again, so just go to first pages of the thread. There are screens of GRID2, Autosport, NFS, Driveclub and GRID. You can compare them by yourself

 

I’ve already seen them. But I’ve also seen gameplay which is way more representative than some cherry picked screenshots. 

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1 minute ago, lastbreath said:

1. I want developers to hear, because all these years I was waiting for superb game, not for this outdated piece of code.

2. I want answer what was a reason of graphics downgrade.

Do you think the developers don’t want to make the best possible game? It is just the unfortunate reality that the new Grid game isn’t going to get as much funding and dev time as the olden days because of various reasons (poor sales of newer games/budget and staff cuts at codies etc). Codemasters aren’t as big as they used to be. Maybe if Grid 2019 is a success then the upper management can be convinced to invest more resources into the next iteration. But atm only F1 is the lucrative part and is being heavily invested in. 

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1 minute ago, Bluestig said:

But I’ve also seen gameplay which is way more representative than some cherry picked screenshots.

Yes, some videos are really beautiful. Like night San-Francisco or Havana. And some are absolutely terrible like Sydney Park or Brands Hatch. Also the game still has no eye-adaptation for shadow/light changing and real-time reflections. Technology that was in games even 10 years ago.

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1 minute ago, lastbreath said:

Yes, some videos are really beautiful. Like night San-Francisco or Havana. And some are absolutely terrible like Sydney Park or Brands Hatch. Also the game still has no eye-adaptation for shadow/light changing and real-time reflections. Technology that was in games even 10 years ago.

Maybe because it is WORK IN PROGRESS as it says on literally every video. Now it may not be improved and then you have every right to complain but till then you can’t judge an unfinished product. All videos are like a month old code. 

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10 minutes ago, lastbreath said:

1. I want developers to hear, because all these years I was waiting for a superb game, not for this outdated piece of code.

2. I want answer what was a reason of graphics downgrade.

Understood.  And, just between you and me... I think they're ignoring you.

But Hey!  Look on the bright side... at least there won't be any LEGO Cars. 🙂

 

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5 minutes ago, Bluestig said:

new Grid game isn’t going to get as much funding

How much moneys it needs to take trees from F1 and put them into GRID? This is THE SAME ENGINE, THE SAME DEVELOPER!!! All they need is just take f1 core and fill it with another car models and tracks!!!

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Just now, SourceCodeError said:

Understood.  And, just between you and me... I think they're ignoring you.

But Hey!  Look on the bright side... at least there won't be any LEGO Cars. 🙂

 

Ofcourse they will be ignored because they are going the wrong way about it. Pure hate will always be ignored and results in genuine criticism being ignored too. It also makes neutral people ignore their criticism. 

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