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3 minutes ago, RedHrm said:

GT sport look very empty and boring when you compare it to grid rich environment!..more vibrant..GT sport trees for example all look the same with that clear green witch make them look very unrealistic at time almost cartoonish 

Being realistic is what you call "boring". Vibrant is not realistic. This is more vibrant:
ss_ecc2d7dc13d85be19d11ea0c27e98eb4c7ffd

GT Sport trees don't change LOD in your face with an ugly a$$ pattern:
image.png

GT Sport trees are detailed, they don't look this bad:
fghed.png

And you are ignoring all the rest:

What about the amazingly realistic lighting in GT Sport vs the "videogamey" lighting in GRID? 🤷‍♂️
Nothing to comment about that?  what about that incredible sky and outstanding dynamic exposure?

 A lot of the time GT Sport looks like reality. GRID just looks a generation inferior.

 

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Strangely ironic that seems acceptable for people to comment on 'amazing' visuals even though it's pre-retail and cannot be compared against the (unseen) retail copy, yet not so acceptable to comment on 'poor' visuals because it's pre-retail and shouldn't be compared against the (unseen) retail copy.

...and don't forget to mention the super-superior puddles of PCars 1 + 2 as well as adding NASCAR Heat 4 to the list of potential racing games to drift back to 🙂

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Just an example of how much better things can look with just some features, tweaks and nice tricks:
GRID_Trailer.thumb.gif.b1c8670cf8183d72692afe46cea9945a.gif

Why this shot from the GRID trailer looks so vastly better than any moment from gameplay? let's analyze it in detail:

1. Color grading. For starters, even if it's a bit too bright, colors are well balanced, there is no unrealistic oversaturation and contrast is equilibrated: there are neither burnt out areas nor pitch black ones.

2. Motion Blur. Good use of high quality motion blur increases the sense of speed and helps hiding problems like lack of detail in track elements, aliasing. etc. They used the same trick for almost all promo images, but then ALL gameplay videos have a total lack of any motion blur but car's wheels. There's not even an option in the Advanced Options menu anymore. 🤔

3. Camera shake. Camera shake helps a lot with the sense of speed too. Makes racing exciting and cinematic. It just transmits a "danger" feeling that is totally lacking in the gameplay, with so fixed cameras with so little movement.

4. Lighting. Light is much more evenly distributed, with indirect lighting.

5. There is no weird glitches taking you out of the realism. No LOD switches or low res trees. No shadows suddenly appearing from nothing. No jaggies/Aliasing.

Just 5 details that would make the real gameplay vastly better. 

The question is...  Why GRID can't look this good on PC? this video may be prerendered/fake just for the trailer shot, but it doesn't even have real reflections or other elements that look impossible to achieve in realtime. There is no reason why the game can't look this good (or pretty near) in current PC top hardware. 🤷‍♂️

Edited by jesped
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1 hour ago, jesped said:

Being realistic is what you call "boring". Vibrant is not realistic. This is more vibrant:
ss_ecc2d7dc13d85be19d11ea0c27e98eb4c7ffd

GT Sport trees don't change LOD in your face with an ugly a$$ pattern:


GT Sport trees are detailed, they don't look this bad:


And you are ignoring all the rest:

What about the amazingly realistic lighting in GT Sport vs the "videogamey" lighting in GRID? 🤷‍♂️
Nothing to comment about that?  what about that incredible sky and outstanding dynamic exposure?

 A lot of the time GT Sport looks like reality. GRID just looks a generation inferior.

 

when i play a video game i like to be entertained get off the environment i am in for a moment not searching for a replica..Gt sport look great but not as stylish and exiting as grid

Edited by RedHrm

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Stylish??? With the shadows popping in less than 30 yards in front of the car? Trees looking like cardboard cutouts at any distance greater than 60 yards? Reflections with no relevence and even less geometric accuracy to the light source and camera position? Please!

The GAS press release which I played for 2 months before launch looked better than this (comparing against what was received at launch). There sure as hell wasn't much discernable difference between the press release and the finished game other than the texture pack for the cars.

If Grid DOES look better by the orders of magnitude required to match the immersion available in many other titles then why are they putting it out for peer review in what to me looks like finished cars in a pre-alpha background.

Such glaring disparity in quality rips the immersion rug out from under your feet. Stylish my foot!

Edited by Guest

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1 hour ago, [SRS13]Rastus said:

Stylish??? With the shadows popping in less than 30 yards in front of the car? Trees looking like cardboard cutouts at any distance greater than 60 yards? Reflections with no relevence and even less geometric accuracy to the light source and camera position? Please!

just games glitches 

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21 minutes ago, RedHrm said:

when i play a video game i like to be entertained get off the environment i am in for a moment not searching for a replica..Gt sport look great but not as stylish and exiting as grid

Ok, this is a reasonable argument. :classic_smile:

Take a good look at this shot here from the trailer: 

Do you agree with the exposed points?

Wouldn't you prefer to play that GRID? 🤷‍♂️

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1 hour ago, jesped said:

Just an example of how much better things can look with just some features, tweaks and nice tricks:
GRID_Trailer.thumb.gif.b1c8670cf8183d72692afe46cea9945a.gif

are you sure the current next gen cards can handle such great visuals..the game in his current state require a gtx 1080 for a better experience

Edited by RedHrm

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2 hours ago, [SRS13]Rastus said:

Couldn't agree more the GFX and water effects aquaplaning and gameplay in general put a smile on my face thats been missing in Codies titles for years, their response to cheats and hackers has been PHENOMINAL!

What do I expect from Codies??? More of the same old same old, rushed, unfinished, poorly implemented, broken games which they'll dump all support for shortly after launch.... Just like GAS and it's promised fix for the upgrades, no action taken against blatant cheating, no action taken against targetted attacks by hackers and cheaters on other players because they're top of the racenet tables perfectly legitimately, no policing of the time trial lists WHATSOEVER, Finally adopting DX12 6 YEARS after it 1st appeared, with DXR due next year things will step up again. Will Codies? Or will they keep putting out DX12 based games for the next 6 years whilst other publishing houses will have adopted DXR and hardware based Raytracing. 

 

Erm, not even close to being correct. Since dumping the CPL's of FMS4 and taking away host control all that T10 have done is dump everyone in the same multiplayer pot (hoppers) in the hope that those who wanted to race properly would report griefers and cheaters. Other bright ideas included 'lobby police' to kick offenders from hoppers (but not prevent them from simply joining another race to do exactly the same again) and a league progression system to split racers of varying skills. Great idea but they kinda forgot that in order to reach the upper leagues you first had to progress thru two tiers of carnage infested rat holes.

Up until the recent beta penalty system (which was only implemented because there is no FMS8 this year and due to FMS7 being given a further year of support something needed to be put in place so eSports would take the game more seriously) the ONLY thing T10 have done in 5 whole years is to place huge lego bricks across some of the more severe cutting spots.

Since the epic Forza's 3 and 4 the only thing Microsoft / Greenawalt have done to any degree of competency is systematically destroy the credibility of a once great franchise and the only thing they seem genuinely committed to is ensuring all drivers can win fancy dress items for their drivatar and stopping people from painting willies and lady parts on the sides of transit vans.

Also, that's a little unfair on Codemasters because aside from lighting woes on consoles they've addressed all major issues in Dirt Rally 2.0 and even though it's a full 6 months down the line (as well as being free to play on gamepass) more support is still being planned for taking the game forward. Leaderboards are still scrutinised with offending times removed and to ensure total fairness with their current championships everything is 100% monitored. Short of coming round to your house to watch you play i'm not exactly sure what else they can do.

Edited by _BorisTheFrog_
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1 hour ago, RedHrm said:

are you sure the current next gen cards can handle such great visuals..the game in his current state require a gtx 1080 


Yes. As explained, most of the punch of the shot is perceptual and pure artistic choices. Just quality Motion Blur, good color grading and contrast, good AA (a bit of blur is always better than any aliasing), camera shake for the dramatic "cinematic" feeling. Rich indirect lighting like in GT Sport. All is perfectly doable in realtime. There's plenty of people nowadays with 2080 gpu's doing GI and Raytracing in realtime...    it isn't even a question of going that high, and most features can be tuned to fit your hardware power. I.e. Very high quality motion blur can be taxing, but it can be highly customizable by the number of samples taken and the quality of the blending between them to produce the final result. Same with the quality of GI (Global Illumination), indirect lighting, Ambient Occlusion, etc.

Games nowadays should be much more configurable, specially on PC. Sadly, I see Codemasters is going backwards in this regard. GRID "Advanced" menu features less options than ever before, and I'm afraid the times of editing xml config files to improve the game are gone and we are going to feel a cold disappointment at launch when confirmed.

Edited by jesped

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Differences are very noticeable in the Official Launch Trailer too:


Here it's just a bit better light balance and color grading (that or they did a really great cherry picking job) and above all, tons of motion blur everywhere:
image.thumb.png.f0ecf71bfabd15791465c1b126815bcd.pngimage.thumb.png.a2982f6bdbbab1765819fd76020114f6.pngimage.thumb.png.2bd9653e839a3e675dedd66b664af18e.pngimage.thumb.png.69696726412d6cfccd6898a6ff33855d.pngimage.thumb.png.b29219469729ee6986d5bd22412bee20.png

Just with that, the game already looks much better. But then in ALL real gameplay videos, there isn't any of this motion blur to be found. Neither during gameplay nor in Replays🤷‍♂️

Edited by jesped

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22 minutes ago, RedHrm said:

are you sure the current next gen cards can handle such great visuals..the game in his current state require a gtx 1080 for a better experience

YES....

1619370980_ForzaApexpic.thumb.PNG.18f5473176129f89f1496bac9dc1c63b.PNG

Thats Apex running on my R9 290X (2013 card same power as the Xbox 1X of 6TFlops and using a similar architecture, specifically AMD's GCN) 3 to 4 years ago an in game screenshot and ran at upto 120 fps @ 5888 x 1080p (AVG was around 90), ultra settings across the board.

Do you see cardboard cutout trees? LOD jumping out into your face? White balance too high? Oversaturated colours? No you see realistic looking trees waaay off into the distance, THIS HAS BEEN POSSIBLE SINCE 2016! Here's Gamers Nexus R9 290X revisit from early 2019. 

 

My Vega runs FM7 at upto 140 fps @ 3840 x 1080p avg well over 110 fps (Still GCN but capable of 13.7 TFlops). My 5700XT (AMD RDNA architecture ~10 TFlops but higher clock speed and MUCH higher instriuctions per clock cycle) runs the same resolution at upto 160 fps (avg 130 fps), both at ultra settings maxxed out anti aliasing etc....

The next consoles are going to be using AMD Navi GPU (RDNA2) of the same power as the 5700XT (~10 TFlops) and with a Ryzen 3xxx based CPU. BOTH reportedly will have hardware based raytracing (unsure of the level to be implemented). This is why I say Codies are releasing GRID as a desperate "cash grab" now because waiting another year will put it in competition with games being designed for these next gen consoles, instead of forcing it to work on the original XBox 1 and PS4 and compromising detail massively in order to do so, whilst not pushing PC hardware to the best of it's abilities, which is why we say it looks last gen or worse in certain respects....

For example put a Hotwheels/Corgi toy car in a highly detailed model world take a photo and people MIGHT need a double take or a REALLY close examination to realise it's not the real thing, put the same car in a lego village and and take another photo, people instantly see "TOY"...

The car models crowds car reflections windscreen reflections and several other aspect do indeed look great but, the issues as are unavoidable as We've repeatedly TRIED to explain, such disparity (great car models in a "Lego playset" backdrop kills the immersion in a heartbeat.

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okay all that sound pretty promising but in the same time let's not forget that we are dealing with Professionals here i believe have done their best to recreate an old game with today technology suited for current next gen cards..i am for improvement obviously..just some patience for now to avoid premature conclusions

Edited by RedHrm
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 i am off to bed people i will take a look at your posts with great interest tomorrow thanks for your precious time 

Edited by RedHrm

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1 minute ago, RedHrm said:

okay all that sound pretty promising but in the same time let's not forget that we are dealing with Professionals here i believe have done their best to recreate an old game with today technology suited for current next gen cards..i am for improvement obviously..but for now we have to be a little patient and not jump into premature conclusions

We've said before there are vids already out there touting "Finished version" which STILL show the issues discussed here ad nauseum. I've had personal experience from GAS (Under a time locked NDA) that the "Press Preview" was very, VERY close to the launch version 8 weeks beforehand. The vids I made before GAS launched are STILL the most viewed on my own humble Youtube channel. 

Been involved in closed Beta (invite only) and the public open Beta testing of Warframe from it's inception (bit of an unfair comparison there as it's an ongoing project) it was buggy had gfx issues which was the whole point of the Beta testing, to iron out such issues BEFORE launch... The game now looks amaizing in comparison largely because it was tested by players for 1000's of hours on a massive variety of hardware and most importantly Digital Extremes devs were highly active in the forums responding quickly to our issues raised (even if just to say "We'll look into that") and resolved them next update (fastest I recall was, problem reported at 6 p.m. Hotfix resolving the issue inside 14 hours). I also invested in the "Founder" status (Still got my founders Tee and ninja headband an all), giving me a say in the games design council with a say in the future path the game takes and in total sank several hundred if not over £1000 into the game over the years since launch. this is what happens when the head honcho's listen to the fans and respect the devs to do the job right with out the pressure of an artificial "Deadline".

Codies approached Dirt Rally in exactly the same fashion as Digital Extremes did with Warframe, early access, rapid responses to bug reports and the corresponding fixes, since then they sadly have reverted to firing out "Good enough to be playable" games and leaving a small team to fix issues after launch (I recall hearing that only 1 or 2 Dev's were looking into the GAS upgrade issue which dragged on for MONTHS before being abandoned along with all further support for the entire game). 

Meanwhile the rest of the devs move on to the next title with another unrealistic deadline because the directors and shareholders don't truly understand the inherent problems with coding (which in my eyes might as well be majic and when done well is an art form), that changes to fix 1 issue can create 5 more that also need time, effort and money to fix, they are more interested in short term income/turnover/rapid release cycles and games designed to run on the lowest common denominator (XBox 1 and PS4) to capture the biggest audience possible.

They want that over spending all the time the devs NEEDED to guarantee ultra high quality productson every format, maintaining the company reputation, testing on multiple hardware platforms.

Chasing a quick buck instead of releasing a really high quality, internationally recognised award winning product and being rewarded with massive sales instead of mediocre sales, high refund demands, a trashed reputation resulting in layoffs of the very people they need to fix the problems... Sorry but to me it's a no brainer... Look at the furore with EA and Bethesda and their attitudes to their customers, sales have tanked reputations are wrecked trust is lost income evaporates and people boycott ALL their titles in disgust. I haven't bought an EA game ever since BF4 when they nerfed the heatseeking missiles damage and increased the reload time by 50% (I think) so badly in fact they were about as powerful as a hand grenade meaning you had to take at LEAST 3 maybe 4 shots to shoot down a jet/helocopter whilst a single lucky shot with an RPG was an instant kill. They continued to ignore the players in the years since and now they're starting to feel the burn of our ire as we turn our backs on them in spades..

Screw the deadlines, run beta tests (Who else here would GLADLY sign an NDA AND even pay to help test on their own hardware and aid in the reporting/fixing of bugs in a game I have and would do so again), take the time NEEDED to get it right 1st time THEN announce it to the masses. Reputation protected, secured making you bulletproof none of this derision, stress kerfuffel....

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1 hour ago, RedHrm said:

guys i am off to bed i will read your current and upcoming posts tomorrow thanks for using your precious time to share some knowledge with us

Happy to be of service and nice to be appreciated for our concerns instead of being labelled haters. Like I said before we all WANT to see Codies excell instead of this cyclic repetition of the same faults title after title...

It makes no sense and is a really REALLY bad business model but OFC shareholders are protected if the company folds they move on with no tarnish on their heads, a wheel barrow full of cash and a fat pension to boot.

Not so the devs who have my utmost respect and admiration for building the worlds we gamers spend so much time in, these overworked, underpaid, undervalued, inspirational artists and visionaries loose their jobs and quite likely leave with a dark cloud over their reputations through no fault of their own. Corporate greed destroying art... SHAME I say SHAME!

Edited by Guest

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To quanitfy the power levels of the consoles the Xbox 1 X take a look at these

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/11407287/fs/19011362

On the left is my old AMD 9590 with the R9 290X (comparable to the Xbox 1 X's power. On the right my 2700X and Vega 64. With a 98-151% performance increase accross the various tests.

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/11407287/fs/20589586

Again on the left is my 9590 and R9290X. on the right this time it's my 2700X and 5700XT (similar power is touted in the next consoles). This time there's between 123-207% increase...

What's worse is when you get into the actual performance of the consoles have a watch through this.

 

Nearly every title shown isn't even using the full power available to the console, instead of maxing out the graphics they're under-utilising the hardware, dumbing down the gfx to hit the magical 60 fps using tricks like upscaling (1440p upscaled to 4K for the Xbox 1X or worse 900p upscaled to 1080p on the Xbox 1), checkerboard rendering and dynamically adjusting the GFX settings to compensate when things get too much all for a rock solid 60 fps on the XBox 1X and 30 fps on the Xbox 1. Don't you think thats a bit sad? I do...

For YEARS the PC fraternity has had to put up with games designed to work on the WORST of the consoles, Look better on the best of them, whilst on PC we get better post processing, Anti Ailaising native resolutions but not the huge leap there SHOULD be in graphical fidelity. Yes we get massively superior fps, rates smoother gameplay etc but many of us would gladly sacrifice a bucketful of the fps rate for hyper-realistic fidelity...

Roll on the next generation consoles then diehard console fans (not dissing you guys in ANY way) will have a better idea on what they've missed out on for well over 10 years.... TRUE native 1080p, 1440p and 4K resolutions, uncapped framerates, no compromises forced upon you... Great times ahead!

Edited by Guest

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I downloaded Forza Apex PC recently (Having not tried it due to having FM6 on Xbox One) and if I am honest the level of detail I was impressed with, I actually found it much better than the newer FM7 on PC. The trees and water splashes were great some of the best I have seen. Now I understand Grid will not be on this level. 

I still feel some of the GRID close up blurred (cartoony) shots are due to the you tube videos not being in focus but I want to see it on my PC first.

 

 

 

Edited by torque99uk

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4 hours ago, jesped said:

The question is...  Why GRID can't look this good on PC? this video may be prerendered/fake just for the trailer shot, but it doesn't even have real reflections or other elements that look impossible to achieve in realtime. There is no reason why the game can't look this good (or pretty near) in current PC top hardware. 🤷‍♂️

That trailer is 100% CGI as far as I know. Like with one part of F1 2011's opening:image.thumb.png.580ef7ef6db94eda1678805215294f01.png

VS

image.thumb.png.465700425642f2be2eceb4860bb1225d.png

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5 hours ago, jesped said:

This is the problem with summing up all in just personal opinions like "fantastic", "amazing" or "gorgeous". They can't be quantified, measured, tested, ...    they are just totally subjective statements. I could say Superman 64 graphics were "amazing" then. 😂

That's why it is needed to go into full details and specifics. All sorts of details and aspects that can be compared and measured against other similar titles. This is exactly what some of us have been doing here, yet we encounter again and again the same empty "arguments" as "to me, it looks fantastic" "it looks amazing"...    with nothing behind to back those claims. 🤷‍♂️

This isn't abstract or modern art. It's not a matter of "my truth" and "your truth".

Really, going into specifics. Measuring videogame technologies, groundbreaking features, 3D models, textures, art direction...   what exactly is amazing and fantastic in GRID? 🤷‍♂️

Of course what I said is completely subjective. And it is based on released videos, not on personal experience with the game, so I am basing my opinion only on that. And yes, watching those videos, I like a lot what I am seeing, for the most part the game does look visually fantastic to me (with a few exceptions). And I would be very surprised if there are many people who watch the latest videos at least and they are not impressed by them. Again, my opinion of course...

 

Implementation details are of zero importance in order to judge if the game looks visually good or not.  If we were having a discussion about technologies and how each feature is implemented and why, then it would be very interested and I would like some input for the devs, but obviously this is not the thread for this.

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Yay! Beautiful fireworks at finish line are back!!! :classic_laugh:

hylky.gif.13a932ffc168120e002e507da31c12f7.gif

At the same time:

yyyl.gif.f3ac9d8810a70dd3758b96bc147c848f.gif

Is there any quality control? Don't they see that smoke is pathetic an absolutely out of place? :classic_laugh:

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I'm starting to think all the fellas here complaining won't be missed at all when people are having fun with friends racing against eachother

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4 hours ago, UP100 said:

That trailer is 100% CGI as far as I know. Like with one part of F1 2011's opening:image.thumb.png.580ef7ef6db94eda1678805215294f01.png

VS

image.thumb.png.465700425642f2be2eceb4860bb1225d.png

The Announce Trailer is a cinematic.

It’s also the opening cinematic in-game, leading you into your first races.

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Congrats @PJTierney on your new role at codies I hope you are settling in well. Well deserved. 👍(I didn't realise you were here) 

Edited by torque99uk
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