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Track Limits in DiRT World Series

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4 hours ago, TorAndre said:

Where are the cuts in NZ this week? No chance i can do much lower than 7:30 so where are they finding those 15sec? 

What was your time with out cuts?

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15 hours ago, MEEKY said:

What was your time with out cuts?

7:39 and the only cut was in the 4th corner with half the car, no way 7:14 is possible without some fishy stuff! 

Even if I've not had loads of hours on this stage, I've set four WR before so I'm hopefully not that bad! 

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I got into Top 100 with a 7:47 (and some rough edges and one minor mistake) Perfectly driven I feel like there could be another 15-20 secs in it. But 30+ secs behind the Leader and still in Top100? There have to bee some severe cuts used here. Although I am quite happy, reaching this level was my aim for the esports, I'm honestly not fast enough to compete for wins (yet)
(Though I do hold 2-3 world records)

 

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3 hours ago, SkyRex said:

I got into Top 100 with a 7:47 (and some rough edges and one minor mistake) Perfectly driven I feel like there could be another 15-20 secs in it. But 30+ secs behind the Leader and still in Top100? There have to bee some severe cuts used here. Although I am quite happy, reaching this level was my aim for the esports, I'm honestly not fast enough to compete for wins (yet)
(Though I do hold 2-3 world records)

 

I got 7.47 Lost control cost me 10secs with out using any of the cuts, A Well hope get better next week. Grats bro.

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On 9/27/2019 at 8:10 PM, MEEKY said:

Hello Guys am Paul, E-Sports in dirt 2.0 is full of cheaters overall time am sitting at 100 there are people cutting the stages in half.

 

Watch  This

 

https://youtu.be/ciEs4Z-9SW8

 

 If People were not cheating I would be sitting a round top 10 over all.

 

Please watch the video this is not rallying. 

 

The Dirt E-sports....

It should be stages and not one stage easy to pick the car and master the stage damage Doesn't even come in to effect if you know every corner of the stage. (Rally) This dose no show how good you are but who can Push a car to it maximum on a set stage.

 

It's always a good idea to read the rules before calling fellow gamers for cheaters. 

(Calling other forum members for cheaters could get you banned) 

 

From the Sporting Regulations for the World Series (As IRL, organizers decide rules for the event.):

50. Drivers must obey track limits. Track limits are defined automatically by DiRT Rally 2.0 but 
exploits may be monitored by the Race Director or their assistant. Penalties and warnings
will be applied as per the “PENALTIES” section of the rulebook.

 

(Exploits in the gaming industry is referring to manipulation or taking advantage of "holes in the coding". 

Driving along track reset-lines, not being where you want it, is not an exploit in this regard.)
 

 

55. Time Penalty – The game may issue a time penalty for various reasons, including cutting
corners and car resets. 

 

And an explanation of the above:

On 9/6/2019 at 10:10 PM, PJTierney said:

Hi everyone,

 

Regarding corner-cutting, the policy for the Qualifiers is that drivers should stay within the boundaries of the track reset lines in-game. If a car goes beyond those boundaries, the game automatically resets their position and applies a time penalty.

 

As mentioned in the Sporting Regulations, times set using exploits (eg: via modification to the game code or attempts to circumvent the times sent to the server) will be investigated and penalised accordingly.

 

Also don't forget that DiRT Rally 2.0 is a game with many unrealistic details you would not find IRL.  

Making limits that resembles ILR without moving the reset lines is an impossible task to implement. 

How are you going to control how much people are cutting, and what should be OK and NOT? If

cutting should be limited in some places, it would have to be in the rules (Road Book) for the local

event so the drivers are aware about where to cut and not, and how much.

 

There are no global rule for this IRL either, as it is handled and decided by local organizers. Organizers

in this case are Codemasters, and they have decided the rules and written them for you to read in the

Sporting Regulations. You cannot just come here and decide that you are the one who make the rules, 

and what you don't like is cheating.

 

Your comment on CRsedmicky's video is rude and totally out of place. He followed the rules, ergo,

not cheating... He also clearly states that he does not like the cuts, (like all of us) but he did not

make the rules.

 

If you don't like the rules, complain to Codemasters. Flaming and harassing other players because

you disagree with the rules does not belong anywhere.

 

Since you are concerned with rules, don't forget that the forum have rules too:

TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR USE OF CODEMASTERS WEBSITES

You agree not to upload, post, email or otherwise transmit any material which (a) is defamatory, libellous, disruptive, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, harmful, abusive, harassing, obscene, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable; or that otherwise violates any law. 

Codemasters reserves the right to issue warnings, suspend or terminate the registration of users who refuse to comply with these rules. 

 

Harassing and flaming other players as cheaters are clearly in violation of the above rules.

Edited by Eagleizer
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Hi. I wonder if somebody could help me. I have an issue with Dirt Rally 2.0. I did a rallycross world series time 3.15.4, but there was a connection problem with racenet(33a14c9d....) which mean I can not see my time on the Leaderboard. I did a rally run after without time but this Time I can see my result on rally Leaderboard. What is the problem? Thank you for your help.

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1 hour ago, AlexMolnar said:

Hi. I wonder if somebody could help me. I have an issue with Dirt Rally 2.0. I did a rallycross world series time 3.15.4, but there was a connection problem with racenet(33a14c9d....) which mean I can not see my time on the Leaderboard. I did a rally run after without time but this Time I can see my result on rally Leaderboard. What is the problem? Thank you for your help.

You need to post a new topic in the technical support section of the forum, not in here for sure.

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I understand the disappointment/anger at the fact that cuts have made it to the championship - but I do not understand displaying anger at those that use them.
There is no actual rally skill at display here - just muscle memory, repeating the same line you've driven hundreds of times on the same track. As such, a cut is just another line you have to learn. In a game about learning the track, I find it weird that you might get angry at someone finding a better route and using it.

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3 hours ago, Yaggings said:

I understand the disappointment/anger at the fact that cuts have made it to the championship - but I do not understand displaying anger at those that use them.
There is no actual rally skill at display here - just muscle memory, repeating the same line you've driven hundreds of times on the same track. As such, a cut is just another line you have to learn. In a game about learning the track, I find it weird that you might get angry at someone finding a better route and using it.

Fair enough. Don't hate the player, hate the game, as the old saying goes.

For me I guess it's mostly disappointment that is more a gamers game than a driver's.

Don't get me wrong. I know there are some real drivers out there and no matter how you put it does take a lot of skill to be in the top. I just don't like it when gaming the game is an important aspect. That just kills all my interest in it.

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2 minutes ago, Gregow said:

I just don't like it when gaming the game is an important aspect

I'd argue it is only important for the final top 0.01% of drivers. For the rest of us "normies", taking the cut or not won't change the fact we are outside of the top 10. We could take every cut but it won't magically make us anywhere close to Micky, Joona, or Jarrod's time.

So because of that, just race the best you can and try to see how far you can climb. If you can make top 100, I'd say that's a pretty solid pace you can put up.

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7:42 is easy in the Spacestar if you can make it through without a puncture, and i'm not really fast. (i did get a puncture so i'm slower in the actual WC)

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2 minutes ago, Mike Dee said:

I'd argue it is only important for the final top 0.01% of drivers. For the rest of us "normies", taking the cut or not won't change the fact we are outside of the top 10. We could take every cut but it won't magically make us anywhere close to Micky, Joona, or Jarrod's time.

So because of that, just race the best you can and try to see how far you can climb. If you can make top 100, I'd say that's a pretty solid pace you can put up.

Sure, I don't doubt you're right about that. Howrver, there's more to it than cutting. Tweak the graphics, steering angle, camera, use the quirks of the physics etc.

I bet Joona and the others would be in the top regardless. No argument there. But these things make it more gaming than racing.

Reminds me of way back when I used to play Quake 3. My friends forced me to play with default settings. I still won 15 against 1 (didn't have more friends than that 😉 ). But did all my tweaks, all my knowledge of exploits, trick jumps etc help when competing against other serious players? You bet!

I don't have a problem with it if we're talking Quake. I don't like it when talking a supposedly rally sim.

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Very few people like the cuts, the consensus appears to be that people would prefer they didn't exist or that the extreme ones would be penalized.  For now though it is what it is and it's important not to A) Call people cheaters if it's not an exploit and B) not to over estimate the benefit of most cuts, as then you're lying at minimum to yourself.

For me the worst thing about the cuts is that it requires time/research to find them.   In some cases it also adds a chaos over skill component.

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5 minutes ago, bn880 said:

Very few people like the cuts, the consensus appears to be that people would prefer they didn't exist or that the extreme ones would be penalized.  For now though it is what it is and it's important not to A) Call people cheaters if it's not an exploit and B) not to over estimate the benefit of most cuts, as then you're lying at minimum to yourself.

For me the worst thing about the cuts is that it requires time/research to find them.   In some cases it also adds a chaos over skill component.

Well, I apologise for calling it cheating. As per PJTiernys post quoted above, it's clearly not cheating.

I do take issue with the rules, how they're formulated and the definition of exploits, but that's on Codemasters and not the contenders.

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15 minutes ago, bn880 said:

In some cases it also adds a chaos over skill component.

Like this week's current cuts. I haven't played much at all in the past week, but I hopped on last night for a quick pass at the current WC and... well you can jump through a lot of the bushes in the hairpin/1's sections of the NZ stage. Sorry I haven't been able to get screens up for this past week, I'll try to get on it for this upcoming one. 7:30ish is doable with a really balls-out run; the 7:15's we see in TT I think have to use some very bad cuts through the switchbacks (you can ignore hairpins in certain spots and I'm sure there are more)

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guys, the game is excellent in general (excluding co driver of course). But don´t unfortunately is a 100% arcade game. Im talking about world championship.

Driving assists allowed? not serious.

memorised stages, some people don`t need a co driver, wheel at 360º? in a  rally car? seriously??????, i saw some videos on web that this guys shift down 4 or 5 gears in less than one second and nothing happen, just reduce more than 100km/h in 20 mtr. 

the idea of this world championship is really nice, but in my opinion is really bad organised, i don`t mind because im not on the fastest group. but i see some guys that are very good drivers and of course they are not on top 20. and is not fear.

i think for the future Codemasters should have a look on the structure and organisation of community of other rally simulators. just suggestion.

they invest big money on this tournament and im really not sure they will have the best drivers at the end.

enjoy the game 

 

regards.

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2 hours ago, hermanyakes said:

wheel at 360º? in a  rally car? seriously?

I mean, most modern cars use 540° which is only 1/4th of a turn more so not really that weird/wrong. The other argument to this would be should we not allow anyone but wheel users to enter? Because a gamepad isn't "real" just like 360° isn't "real".

As for the rest, i think most people will agree with you. It's hard to combat though, how would you possibly deal with track memorization? Some people have 500+ hours in DR2 already and literally know every stage already - isn't it at least more fair to let everyone have a chance to learn the stages? Otherwise you are just sending 99% of drivers in "blind" while the top 1% of drivers are completely unaffected by it because they already know it all. 

As for the shifting, blame it on the crappy damage models. I'm sorry CM but this is one part of your game I will always harass you about - the damage models are far from hardcore, hell even DR1 had more damage. Until that is fixed, you can't blame people for skipping gears and letting the engine redline. And on the assists... who cares? I get the WRC Pros don't use them, but it isn't like those assists make you faster in this game. I'm pretty sure most of the fast drivers will all agree that they actually slow you down if they are left on. 

Overall though 100% agree I'd like to see a bigger model behind it all though. Give us a long 12 Event Championship, make everyone fight to stay near the top every week in the Event and see who can be fast and endure the entire championship. Would be a lot more fun.

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Good point there. Now the competition is pure for hotlappers but rally (so should esport be) is about keeping the car alive for at least 12 stages.

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On 9/30/2019 at 4:00 AM, TorAndre said:

7:39 and the only cut was in the 4th corner with half the car, no way 7:14 is possible without some fishy stuff! 

 

I dunno, I can consistently make around 7:30 in 3 of the R5 cars and the ghosts of the fastest drivers are usually getting well ahead by the second split (pulling ahead by 4 corners in actually), a quarter of a second per corner adds up to a large difference on a 10km+ stage.

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16 hours ago, Mike Dee said:

I mean, most modern cars use 540° which is only 1/4th of a turn more so not really that weird/wrong. The other argument to this would be should we not allow anyone but wheel users to enter? Because a gamepad isn't "real" just like 360° isn't "real".

As for the rest, i think most people will agree with you. It's hard to combat though, how would you possibly deal with track memorization? Some people have 500+ hours in DR2 already and literally know every stage already - isn't it at least more fair to let everyone have a chance to learn the stages? Otherwise you are just sending 99% of drivers in "blind" while the top 1% of drivers are completely unaffected by it because they already know it all. 

As for the shifting, blame it on the crappy damage models. I'm sorry CM but this is one part of your game I will always harass you about - the damage models are far from hardcore, hell even DR1 had more damage. Until that is fixed, you can't blame people for skipping gears and letting the engine redline. And on the assists... who cares? I get the WRC Pros don't use them, but it isn't like those assists make you faster in this game. I'm pretty sure most of the fast drivers will all agree that they actually slow you down if they are left on. 

Overall though 100% agree I'd like to see a bigger model behind it all though. Give us a long 12 Event Championship, make everyone fight to stay near the top every week in the Event and see who can be fast and endure the entire championship. Would be a lot more fun.

i compare my self and for me change the wheel from 540 to 360º make around 1 or 1,5 second per split on a long stage, the method of reduce 4 gears instantly in maybe 20 meters, make another second per split(everyone knows the result if you do something like this in a real car) so unfortunately the game have espectacular graphics and sound, but still an ARCADE game, and i hope CODEMASTERS will fix for future on this game or future titles. 

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Mike Dee said:

Overall though 100% agree I'd like to see a bigger model behind it all though. Give us a long 12 Event Championship, make everyone fight to stay near the top every week in the Event and see who can be fast and endure the entire championship. Would be a lot more fun.

A very logical thinking right there, i think its fair enough as make use of the current available data, but doesn’t mean should stick with it. re-employment the current data is required to move step forward, when building the database, should be considering there is an upcoming official competition to divide the stages data to: 1) gaming stages. 2) pro series stages.

The gaming stages are for playing and having fun of course.

As for Pro series stages are for applying the strictest rules you want on it, (the fia “banned testing” rule is one of the strictest rule that you can apply). We already have a “series” so Use the same stages every season and whenever new Dirt game upcoming, bring it’s features to these “pro series stages”.(as we see in including DR1 stages into DR2 content)

Imagining the players trying hard to push into the “pro series stages” without even testing it once, makes my head explode.

Edited by stcooza

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I'm wondering if anyone has noticed that in the last day or so of each qualifying race in the world championship that there are certain drivers that somehow blow every top time out one after another with seemingly impossible times.? It's almost like they wait until the last minute to use some kind of cheat or hack to ensure their place in top position. Am I crazy or does anyonelse feel that individuals doing so should be investigated for cheating?

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No, I think it's a strategic decision. They just practice as much as possible and do their run just a few hours before the time expires. Also, by waiting until the end of the round they're not giving any reference time for other competitors, e.g. if you're doing much better times in practice than the current #1 you can take it easy without risking too much, but if you have no idea what times the other drivers are doing you're forced to give your best and take more risks. 

 

Edited by richie
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I still find it hard to believe. The times some are making there is no possible way that I can see for someone to "take it easy" and find the grip and have the reaction time to make it through the stages the way they supposedly do. As much as I've played this and watched replay after replay of myself and other drivers you can almost see a cap to each stage when using the same basic tune. Yet somehow a just a handful of people exceed those times by massive amounts of time. I still want to see videos of these people making these miraculous stage times. Probably never will though.   

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17 hours ago, LordMarbles said:

I still find it hard to believe. The times some are making there is no possible way that I can see for someone to "take it easy" and find the grip and have the reaction time to make it through the stages the way they supposedly do. As much as I've played this and watched replay after replay of myself and other drivers you can almost see a cap to each stage when using the same basic tune. Yet somehow a just a handful of people exceed those times by massive amounts of time. I still want to see videos of these people making these miraculous stage times. Probably never will though.   

Can you give an example of times you are doubting? The winning runs of Joona and Mickey are publicly available on youtube, unsure about the others. I linked my (unlisted on yt) 7:21 during the NZ qualifier (rank 12 on Steam?), couldn't find a better run quickly. I told myself I would not take the minor cut past the rock if I had a clean run but I did not, crashed into a gate, so I took it. Saves less than a second anyway. I ran against the best TT times a few times and they don't cheat honestly, every corner is just taken really well and if you lose 0.1 every corner (which is easy to do) that will really add up. I was able to match their pace for a few sectors but after a while you just make a mistake, lose the rhythm and with that the pace. My run might not really look different than a 7:30 for example, but the corners are just taken slightly more quickly. The same case can be made for the difference between the winning 7:13 and my 7:21. Unless I missed cuts somewhere but who knows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe-XNsN6YqU

EDIT://Some footage from the guy who posted the winning run (this might actually be from the qualifier itself). You can see different gear selection at a lot of sections and different cornering styles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip1jtksm2RY

Edited by Maxiemwagenaar
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