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Dirt Rally (early access) TC SC ABS On & Off, and going sideways....tall (un)happy and instability.

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I wanted to start this thread because there is great discussion on the feedback thread starting to get going in the community. I haven't gone back through that whole thread which is turning into a cluster%&k but if you wanna repeat on this thread that's appreciated.

I know there have been comments like cars are too tight, game is too easy...etc..etc...

I must be rubbish at driving or its about biases on the in game assists. I have not finished higher than 4th place in a championship race and better than 6th in a career series with a mini with the assists off (& I have played at least 6 championships at open difficulty settings).

As soon as I played I was trying to configure my wheel I also turned off TC and ABS so I have never played with them on. It made me wonder have you guys/gals tried playing with the assists off? and do you use a gamepad or wheel. on the same car in a championship or custom event how do you finish between both settings.

can I tell the difference between RWD and FF? hell yes!

so I am thinking there is too much bias in the assists. even in normal lose bends the rear end can become unsettled and upset the rhythm of the car which in wales usually ends up wraped around a tree. I have done a whole load of driving with the mini and due to my poor finishes I have not earned enough money for better cars so I have only tried the low powered rear wheel cars on the next division up. (ps that's ok I don't want the game to be easy)

Skandepik said:
bogani said:
bogani said:

...

- Less grip! RWD cars are not tail happy enough atm.

on the racing wheel with TC SC abs set to off. I had my issues with losing control at 80-100 throttle and becoming unsettled in non ebreak corners. (see Profile/Game Preferences)

Did you mean they don't slide enough on e break turns (inertial drifts, is that the term?), or snap on you during non e-break standard bends. If anyone else wants to add there 2 cents feel free.

Hmm. Not sure I fully understand you. But I'm not talking about handbrake turns I'm talking about applying throttle in general. These cars should really step out sideways when the diff is firm.
Yeah, no doubt about that. Atm, the cars aren't stepping out sideways properly. But is it only a matter of grip? I'm not so sure if it's only that. Something to do with the power of the cars too? Because the group B don't seem to me as powerful as they should be in acceleration for example."

Also this discussion
"Isniedood said:
Kzertus said:
...
For the player who said that he cannot block the wheels, there must be something wrong in your pedals settings or you left the ABS on, because I have locked a multiple time the front wheels on the Cooper, even on tarmac. 
...
I think you are referring to me. 

I do not think I made myself perfectly clear. I do lock my tires often and I mean often. But somehow the car doesn't really give me feedback when I am locking the tyres. I do not hear it very well  and the suspension doesn't really do a lot when braking.  With RBR  it was quite obvious when you were on the edge of locking or not. 

Maybe it is because of the force feedback, maybe the sound, but somehow I do not really feel what the car is doing when braking."

I now have ABS set on 3 and I agree with Kzertus the mini will lock I think on tarmac either that or the understeer is so bad! but your right FFB, there no indication as to the feel of the lock.

In addition to just the TC SC ABS can we add to the leader boards these fields like in Forza so you can see these assists with the times of players. Or even better have a separate leader boards if this is not possible to add these fields to the same leader boards. This is the danger when you start trying to cater for serious casual or sim fans. they don't mind comparing how slow they are but they do want to see distinction between assists IMHO on leader boards.

ALSO
For me the way the game is currently I would prefer lower powered 80 and 90's cars with assists on then work up to modern day with assists on, then take them back For PURITY racing of  60 and 70 and some 80's cars with assists off and hopefully Forced camera's option ON. they didn't have the assists in those days plus I am sadistic that way.

Even now Porsche are making an acknowledgment about there own driver enthausist as more and more automation takes removes the driver from the rawness of track day cars, e.g Between the GT3 911 and GT4 cayman. they say if you want the there fastest track car buy a gt3(rs) with paddle shift if you want purist experience less automation buy a gt4 (manual). even jaguar with the f type is using similar terms as it launched a MANUAL for its coupe along side its dual clutch auto.

Anyway I better go and try race with the assists on to see is I am just S&%t at driving or it makes the game

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Not sure if this will make a huge difference, but Codemasters announced they'll have some new Forced Feedback setting for us to try later today.

Also I think a majority of us are in agreement. Codemasters, PLEASE go back to Group B and do some much needed tuning. They don't sound nearly as menacing as they should and the power is just not there. 

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I use a pad, no assists except ABS, and like you I find my cars fishtailing if I have the accelerator floored. Another thing I noticed is that the FWD cars torque steer if you floor the accelerator, so I reckon they are running with traction and stability on.

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Another thing I noticed is that the FWD cars torque steer if you floor the accelerator, so I reckon they are running with traction and stability on.
I had exactly the opposite feeling with a wheel.
I was expecting the FF cars to have some torque steer, and there was nothing relayed through the wheel at all when I stomped the accelerator.

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I want say thanks for reading my long post and contributing to this thread (most of my replies are usually long but detailed). Its been a long time since I was last on this forum as a contributor instead of lurker.

I used to be here a lot in the old forums and had a lot post during OPFRR. I know its been a couple of years but it seems but it seems its hard for people to have discussions on this board. maybe there is a lot more trolling than a few years ago and people do less discussing or maybe they are all on steam which is a mess to read through. I usually try and facilitate discussion in forum (this helps when mods or devs occasional give comments/questions to topics), and also I put in work to help better understand better peoples comments on system and handling issues, so pm if there are things I can help you with IF I have the time. Hope I run into you on the forums and I will try and use these new things at the bottom of posts. 

I was part of kickstarters program for a couple of projects and the best thing people can do is give detailed feedback on there system and playstyle, In other projects I found tentative feedback with dev answer of "we are working on a issue" and the community trust that it will be alright on the night has not produced great results. For this reason I try and give Context via my signature in the forum, I have just edited this currently to include TC SC abs settings. 

So back on topic yeah agreed with the wheel there is no torque steer, but I do have a 360 controller I can play with so I will give that a try. I wanna try the same car on the same track with the TC SC settings adjusted (on a fixed difficulty) and I will put up the times here when I have them (probably tomorrow) the wheel is the priority but I will try the gamepad also.

I really think CM have a great base game and I really want it to to be a good contrast product to pcars. but it is a little confused WRT serious casual players and hardcore sim purists. I will put up another thread to detail that statement by the end of the week.

If you have times you wanna share whilst adjusting these settings then feel free to put them up before me. 

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Grip overstated, it should be reduced on all machines especially at low speeds!

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after some testing at different settings but keeping the same car on the same track I want to give some early results. and follow on.

I used the mini in Greece on a base setup

the early differentials on one person on 20 runs on the same track.  

with all assists off about 1 min when compared to on over a 5 min duration. so about 20%, with

tc sc abs set on 2 about 25-40secs slower than on over a 5 min duration so about 10-12% for every 5min duration.

But time isn't the only thing to talk about. Handling

there is a noticeable difference in the handling of the car it's different to track based games. those games tend to cause the uncertainty in and out of the Connors, but here it strange to describe. the rear end gets out of alignment more the car becomes more fidgety like somebody messed with your suspension. It needs more correction from the wheel it is more involving to drive as your not quite sure what it is going to do. but it you start to go wrong or just clip the edges of the track it gets pretty lively. also due to the wheel spin in corners the car struggles to get the power down.

when you switch on the assists it like the car is doing some sort of steering assist especially when going down the straights when you start clipping things it tends to stick almost in a neutral way and just ride over it, if I was to say what I think its like I would say 4 wheel steering, and I have never driven a 4 wheel steering car in real life or in any sim game before.

I have a very big review of the early release review I am working on right now, after some 20 hours of track time.

Also I need help to get a better idea from a wider population of the biases but it certainly not worth the effort for 1% reward in online lobbies, your losing to much time. I will have a follow on post from this shortly on what I want to next with the communities help.    

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I drive with no assists no hud and H pattern and clutch.

I use lightly modified settings in the Logitech profiler for my G27 and have left the ingame options as they were.

I find the game has a nice level of difficulty and that it will reward you for paying close attention to the notes AND driving ever so slightly back from the cars limits at first. 

This is footage from a 6R4 on professional AI, i have gotten better since and have been in the podiums on masters races regularaly now :smile: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBMh2bAf38o

And here is against Master Ai in the 131 abarth in wales.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqH19_Yaok4

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setup a league for drivers who wanna help benchmark and race with driver assists set lower or even off. click here for league details in codemasters forums 

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Hand brake issues - anyone?

Just got the game and loving it. Question though - pulling the handbrake is able to help rotate the cars especially in hairpins but for some reason in the 2010 cars like the Ford Fiesta, all the car does is plough straight on. Anyone else have this problem? Its fine with even with Group A cars. so does not seem to be related to rwd or awd. Btw I am using a Fanatec handbrake which is analog and progressive in feel

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Honestly, I feel there's a bit too much grip and stability overall. It is indeed hard to get the tail out, much less keep it there, and there have been many situations where I should have fallen off the road but the car stuck enough to keep me on. Braking distance also feels far too short, and I never feel like I'm locking my wheels. That is something RBR did perfectly - just trying to keep the car under control while braking super super early, just on the threshold of grip. It had a very "oh crap, am I actually going to stop this thing in time, and that's if I don't fall off the track while trying to do so" feel to it which was just perfect.

That said, I actually think RBR has slightly too little grip. I think a middle ground between RBR and DiRT Rally would be getting there.

In this clip, I was on the brakes as soon as I landed from the first little jump, and ooonly just slowed down enough. Couldn't put a great deal of pressure on because I'd have just locked up instantly. Then, I was just able to persuade it into a Scandi to swing the tail out nicely for the upcoming square right. This is the kind of stuff DiRT Rally needs, in my mind.

http://a.pomf.se/dsafun.webm


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