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DiRT Rally 2.0 World Series

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Just got word on a few things people were asking about:

 

  • The Leaderboards you see in-game are platform-specific.
  • Stage Degradation is set to Optimal.
  • You only get one M2 throughout the Qualifiers, so don't sell the one you earn ūüėȬ†
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16 hours ago, Mike Dee said:

Was already confirmed that all cuts are allowed if they do not require code modification. We had a big discussion about it leading up to the qualifiers and that was the final ruling.
 

 

My take away from that is that exploits could be penalized.

I would be very disappointed if the cut shown in that video wasn’t severely penalized. It should give at least a 20 sec penalty.

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It should, problem is video is not mandatory so some do the cutting and we will never know ūüôĄ

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According to some of the SDL guys even in the RX qualification round cuts were a thing. What the Hell, really! 

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On 9/18/2019 at 1:11 PM, richie said:

According to some of the SDL guys even in the RX qualification round cuts were a thing. What the Hell, really! 

So what's learned, at the moment where you can win something nobody goes the sportsman way all are cheating what's maximum possible.
If CM want to take this serious they have to check the ghost and disqualify all with a extended cut just to gain some time. So nobody will risk it and cuts to gain time are gone.

This reminds me where in some games all graphics where turned down to ps1 quality because you are able to see the enemy to shoot better

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On 9/18/2019 at 1:11 PM, richie said:

According to some of the SDL guys even in the RX qualification round cuts were a thing. What the Hell, really! 

Honestly,

In RX with the S1600 you didn't need to cut in Hell to be fast

But yeah it's gonna be a real problem for the next round like Montalegre for example

Edited by SDLQuinto

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it really needs sorting out. you seen on the normal rally event with cuts was top. some can do it close to that time with out cuts. maybe not this time round but for the next world championships it really needs to be clarified and sorted. some people are not going to qualify based on cutting. not driver skill. you seen this alone on the poland event. the time saved from cuts would of meant that person would not of been top. this at some point is going to rob someone of qualifying. whos racing legit but gets beat by a cut.

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As stated before - the cuts are available for everyone to use, and they do take skill to use, so saying that they don't take driver skill is a little absurd.

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1 hour ago, SDLQuinto said:

Honestly,

In RX with the S1600 you didn't need to cut in Hell to be fast

But yeah it's gonna be a real problem for the next round like Montalegre for example

The question is not if you can be fast without cutting, the question is if you can qualify without cutting because according to you people did take cuts. You said it's sad that cutting isn't going to be penalised and that you can cut in RX as much as you can at Kopina. Did you have to cut to qualify? The only place for potential cuts I can think of is the downhill section after T1. 

 

 

Edited by richie

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4 minutes ago, richie said:
1 hour ago, SDLQuinto said:

Honestly,

In RX with the S1600 you didn't need to cut in Hell to be fast

But yeah it's gonna be a real problem for the next round like Montalegre for example

TheÔĽŅ question is not if you can be fast without cutting, the question is if you can qualify without cutting because according¬†to you people¬†did take cuts. You said it's sad that cutting isn't going to be penalised and that yoÔĽŅu can cut in RX as much as you can at Kopina.¬†Did you have to cut to qualify? The only place for potential cuts I can think of is the downhill section after T1ÔĽŅ

Okay so I can answer correctly this time ^^

I'm qualified on PS4 in RX with the best time cross platform without cuts. But yes on Kopina I finished second without cuts when the first cut some corners during his run. So If i had cut too I would have won in rally too 

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21 minutes ago, mwoodski said:

As stated before - the cuts are available for everyone to use, and they do take skill to use, so saying that they don't take driver skill is a little absurd.

Yeah, you have to practice to get these cuts right. I didn't manage to take the potato cut and when I tried the tree cut for the first time I kissed that wall or fence or whatever that is on the inside. 

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23 minutes ago, mwoodski said:

As stated before - the cuts are available for everyone to use, and they do take skill to use, so saying that they don't take driver skill is a little absurd.

no the point is some wont take them because they see them as cheating or they dont know about certain cuts. that said person could finish one second behind the top guy who has cut. as said at some point someone will qualify with a cut time over someone who hasnt used a cut or cuts. and lost for it. is isnt skillful driving across a field its easy. people who are quick can do almost exactly same runs time after time within a 100th of a second. so cutting a corner isnt even a skillful thing .

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50. Drivers must obey track limits. Track limits are defined automatically by DiRT Rally 2.0 but exploits may be monitored by the Race Director or their assistant.

And if the cuts at Kopina are not exploits, then I'm a duck. So it's a clear violation of the rules, also known as cheating, and should be penalized. Whether or not it takes skill is irrelevant.

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3 hours ago, dgeesi0 said:

no the point is some wont take them because they see them as cheating or they dont know about certain cuts. that said person could finish one second behind the top guy who has cut. as said at some point someone will qualify with a cut time over someone who hasnt used a cut or cuts. and lost for it. is isnt skillful driving across a field its easy. people who are quick can do almost exactly same runs time after time within a 100th of a second. so cutting a corner isnt even a skillful thing .

Cutting the corner driving fast over crazy uneven terrain and trying to skirt the penalty zone takes skill, full stop.

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its just the case of learning. which they do in practice. no more skill than learning the event. the difference is by taking the cut you gain time and advantage.

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46 minutes ago, Gregow said:

 

 

And if the cuts at Kopina are not exploits, then I'm a duck. So it's a clear violation of the rules, also known as cheating, and should be penalized. Whether or not it takes skill is irrelevant.

If I'm not mistaken that refers to the final. PJ made a statement on cuts during qualification rounds and defined 'cheating'. If you find a shortcut and It's within the reset boundaries of the game it's legit. It was bad at Kopina because Poland in general as a location with its characteristics invites to cut a lot. Coming rounds should be much better. 

Edited by richie

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57 minutes ago, Gregow said:

And if the cuts at Kopina are not exploits, then I'm a duck. So it's a clear violation of the rules, also known as cheating, and should be penalized. Whether or not it takes skill is irrelevant.

81. No forms of cheating, gameplay, gamesmanship or gaining an unfair advantage in any way
will be tolerated. This includes, but is not limited to:

  1. Hardware modification - Any modification made to a piece of hardware allowing it to function in a way the manufacturer did not intend. This includes adding or inserting anything not originally on the hardware configured by the organisers.
  2. Hacking - Any modification made to the game or other software by any person other than by way of standard software patches or updates.
  3. Exploiting game glitches - Intentionally using any in-game bug to seek an advantage. Exploiting is defined as utilising any game function that, in the sole determination of the organisers, is not functioning as intended.
  4. Impersonation (including playing under another driver’s account) - to be understood as playing under another driver’s account or soliciting, inducing, encouraging or directing someone else to play under another driver’s account.
  5. Collusion - Any agreement among two (2) or more participants and/or other persons to affect any competition or race and/or opposing drivers. 

---

Emphasis mine. To me this reads as using reset zones to force you further along the stage (old DR1 Monte glitches) - not just driving right next to the reset zone without triggering it. 

 

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15 minutes ago, richie said:

If I'm not mistaken that refers to the final. PJ made a statement on cuts during qualification rounds and defined 'cheating'. If you find a shortcut and It's within the reset boundaries of the game it's legit. It was bad at Kopina because Poland in general as a location with its characteristics invites to cut a lot. Coming rounds should be much better. 

You're right, that point was from the rules regarding the finals. This one's regarding qualifying though:

Any qualifying times posted that appear to result from a glitch or exploit will be declared void by the organisers. It is recommended that competitors retain a video of their qualifying event(s) in case the validity of their entry is challenged, however, in any such case organiser’s decision shall be fina

I can only find exploiting defined in the code of conduct for the finals, but it would indeed be odd to use different definitions so... point 81 c. 

Exploiting is defined as utilising any game function that, in the sole determination of the organisers, is not functioning as intended.

So I guess CM would have to determine whether these cuts are an intended function of the game, or if the qualifying times set by using these cuts would be declared void.

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6 minutes ago, Mike Dee said:

Emphasis mine. To me this reads as using reset zones to force you further along the stage (old DR1 Monte glitches) - not just driving right next to the reset zone without triggering it. 

 

Do you mean something like you could use reset zones to teleport yourself further along the stage?

Anyhow, I would find it sad if advantages can be gained by meticulously exploring the boundaries of the reset zones. So much so, in fact, that I would lose all interest in the championship.

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Just now, Gregow said:

Do you mean something like you could use reset zones to teleport yourself further along the stage?

Yes, it's actually a pretty common exploit in any game that is normally limited to campaign speed running. Unfortunately in point-to-point races that exploit becomes a lot more useful online and outside of campaigns.

And I think we can all agree that we'd much rather not have any of these really bad cuts used, but it is an extremely hard thing to handle. The only "fair" option is to place objects on the stage which prohibit those kinds of cuts. You can't limit it to eliminating runs through video/replay because there is too much room for human error. Who is to say what cut is too much and would cause a penalty. The only way we could do that would be have reset zones added to places we deem to be unsportsmanlike, there is no question about reset zones.

But without being able to use those, it's all some arbitrary line drawn in the sand. Who is to say one run is invalid because of a cut, but another run 1ft closer to the track isn't? There is no hard and fast rule that is easy to apply here, or are we going to resort to "all 4 tires must stay on the stage at all times"? That is about the only other option I can think of that actually might be able to fix it - but 4 tires on the track is something for circuit racing, not rally. Rally is about pushing the track limits, finding where you can dip 1, 2, hell maybe even all 4 through an inside grass line to open up your exit.

It's just an ugly position to be in with no good quick solutions =/

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8 minutes ago, Mike Dee said:

Yes, it's actually a pretty common exploit in any game that is normally limited to campaign speed running. Unfortunately in point-to-point races that exploit becomes a lot more useful online and outside of campaigns.

And I think we can all agree that we'd much rather not have any of these really bad cuts used, but it is an extremely hard thing to handle. The only "fair" option is to place objects on the stage which prohibit those kinds of cuts. You can't limit it to eliminating runs through video/replay because there is too much room for human error. Who is to say what cut is too much and would cause a penalty. The only way we could do that would be have reset zones added to places we deem to be unsportsmanlike, there is no question about reset zones.

But without being able to use those, it's all some arbitrary line drawn in the sand. Who is to say one run is invalid because of a cut, but another run 1ft closer to the track isn't? There is no hard and fast rule that is easy to apply here, or are we going to resort to "all 4 tires must stay on the stage at all times"? That is about the only other option I can think of that actually might be able to fix it - but 4 tires on the track is something for circuit racing, not rally. Rally is about pushing the track limits, finding where you can dip 1, 2, hell maybe even all 4 through an inside grass line to open up your exit.

It's just an ugly position to be in with no good quick solutions =/

There's one simple rule that could be implemented. Cuts with four wheels off the road that give an advantage could be made illegal. 

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6 minutes ago, Gregow said:

that give an advantage could be made illegal. 

There is your problem - who/how/what determines an advantage? Is it any advantage even through a mistake? What about people who wallride banks to carry speed through corners a gear higher but only have 2 wheels on the bank? Too much ambiguity in there for a WC this size. There needs to be very clear, very definable rules that leave absolutely zero questions.

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6 minutes ago, Mike Dee said:

There is your problem - who/how/what determines an advantage? Is it any advantage even through a mistake? What about people who wallride banks to carry speed through corners a gear higher but only have 2 wheels on the bank? Too much ambiguity in there for a WC this size. There needs to be very clear, very definable rules that leave absolutely zero questions.

Hmm, think there are now 2 pages about the question of cutting being legit. So if I stick to your opinion for sure no cutting allowed.

I think @Gregow is right and cm have just to look at the top 10-20. Who cares if number 200, f.i. myself, did it wrong.

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33 minutes ago, Janneman60 said:

Who cares if number 200, f.i. myself, did it wrong

Because you may be #200 in SS1, but that time might be used to get you through qualifiers through cumulative time - so you need to vet every time.

And again, you ignore the fact that there is no clear rule - no clear way to decide one line is fair and one line isn't without forcing 4 wheels on the track at all times. Which just isn't rally at all. You come down to random employee discretion which is about the worst way you could run anything.

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10 hours ago, Mike Dee said:

There is your problem - who/how/what determines an advantage? Is it any advantage even through a mistake? What about people who wallride banks to carry speed through corners a gear higher but only have 2 wheels on the bank? Too much ambiguity in there for a WC this size. There needs to be very clear, very definable rules that leave absolutely zero questions.

It’s not perfect but that’s how it works in real rally and racing. The racing director determines if the cut is illegal or not.

That’s certainly better than allowing for drivers to find the quickest paths off road, which is nothing but exploiting the game.

Edited by Gregow

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