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DiRT Rally 2.0 World Series

PJTierney

Who qualified, who won and how did they get there?

 

Find it all here and re-watch the best moments with the series review:

 

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Actually a nice event - and interesting! While watching, too much is moderated for me, especially the female modarator talks too quickly and too much for my well-being.

Less is sometimes more. But that's just my opinion. Hope this event will be repeated. So you can see how the pros are driving 👍

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3 hours ago, Flens07 said:

Hope this event will be repeated.

Grand Finals next week 🙂 

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14 hours ago, Flens07 said:

Actually a nice event - and interesting! While watching, too much is moderated for me, especially the female modarator talks too quickly and too much for my well-being.

Less is sometimes more. But that's just my opinion. Hope this event will be repeated. So you can see how the pros are driving 👍

Yeah, watched the quarter- and semi-finals a week ago and it was surprisingly entertaining, but all this talking is a bit annoying. I have the impression, they just talk...to talk...but I have the same problem with other sports and esports-related shows like the Forza streams or F1 in TV.

An upload without commentary would be cool 😃

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Greetings to director of finals...
At rally we don´t need trackside camera, bonnet view or in-car please.

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It all comes down to this. Join us as the DiRT Rally 2.0 World Series reaches its grand conclusion on January 12, live from Autosport International.

 

 

 

The world’s fastest rally and rallycross drivers will compete for the title of World Champion on Sunday January 12, live from Autosport International, presented by Codemasters and Motorsport Network.

You can watch the broadcasts via the embeds above, or subscribe to our YouTube channel to catch them at any time. The Grand Finals will also be shown live on the DiRT Facebook page. Below you’ll find the schedule and direct links, where you can set reminders to be notified of when we go live.

 

Sunday, January 12

Full story: http://www.codemasters.com/dr2_worldseries_finals_broadcast_info/

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so the people who finished 1st and 2nd in RX qualified on Xbox and Playstation. funny how so many people said that console players were too slow and there should be separate events for each platform. 

will be interesting to see the rally final now.

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With the competition now over, I guess it’s time to give my opinion/feedback of the DiRT World Championship…Oh boy…where to start - I guess at the beginning? I’ll be covering the topics based on the timeline, so I’ll start with the Qualifiers, then the Quarter- and Semi-Finals and then the Finals at the Autosport International Show.

Qualifiers

Honestly, I feel as if we already started off on the wrong footing, because as soon as the announcement was made and everyone dove into the “Sporting Regulations” and “Terms & Conditions” documents – And what they found, was no small feat. There were sections of the “Sporting Regulation” that outright contradicted each other, such as different graphics detailing the different ways a singular process was going to be handled. (For more information see the Reddit thread)

On top of that the “Sporting Regulations” were plain inaccurate up till a week before the Quarter-  and Semi-Finals, with many rules still be dated to the DiRT 4 era, and being outright impossible to achieve in DiRT Rally 2.0.

Furthermore, there was quite a lot of pushback regarding the fact that the cars that were being chosen for the Qualifiers, could only be driven with a default setup, which arguably removes a very important aspect to both Rally and Rallycross. Not to even mention the fact that assists were allowed, one of which, Launch Control, was a MAJOR advantage in Rallycross. Assists should NEVER be a factor in ANY Esports championship or competition.

Last but not least, the car classes chosen in the Qualifiers didn’t represent the game’s Esports scene as a whole, the fact they included Super 1600s, H2 FWDs and more, is very puzzling to me, as the people who get through on those are just hopelessly lost in contrast to the people that go through in the cars that are being used in the Quarter-, Semi- and Grand Finals. Personally I’d rather see the Qualifiers and all kinds of Finals use only the best cars, those being the Supercars and the R5s.

Quarter- and Semi-Finals

Moving on to the Quarter- and Semi-Finals, it was a disgrace that these were delayed a week, and it was an outright miracle some drivers managed to delay or cancel holidays due to this, especially considering it was a last minute notice only 2-3 days before the event.

The reasoning for this delay was the “Sporting Regulations” which were not ready for the Quarter- and Semi-Finals, due to the inconsistencies mentioned above. I’d love to give Codemasters some benefit of doubt, but I made a Reddit thread laying out the issues with the “Sporting Regulations” mere days after the announcement was made, so they could’ve been fixed well ahead of time.

Entering the actual Quarter- and Semi-Finals, which both were one Qualifying race and one Race. Firstly, the fact these are all single races that leads to the elimination of many is an idea that should be abolished. As a matter of fact, many drivers were taken out of the running for either the Semi-Finals or Grand Final due to no fault of their own, but a mistake or intentional action of another driver.

There’d have been a very simple way to mitigate this, to hold multiple races, each of which award points, and after a set number of races (2 or 3) the set amount of people with the most points continue to the next round. But we’ll be coming back to this topic when we’ll discuss the Grand Finals… Oh boy, bear with me for that.

Furthermore, the Quarter- and Semi-Finals for RX both utilized tracks on which overtaking was literally impossible without forcing someone off their line or even in a wall, as we could very well see in some of the races. These tracks were decided based on marketing and what Codemasters wanted to show, but rather they should have been chosen based on what would provide the best racing.

Last but not least the adjudicating/stewarding, coming from multiple drivers’ perspective this was done horribly, as we all feel certain actions should’ve warranted certain penalties to be dished out or removed in cases of being forced wide. But this wasn’t done, and in some case, because the result didn’t depend on it, these investigations weren’t even finished. And regardless of impact, incidents should always be investigated, otherwise drivers will always feel wronged.

Grand Finals

Moving on to the final chapter of the DiRT World Championships, the Grand Final at the Autosport International Show – And oh boy…is this a controversial topic. But lets begin with some positives, the viewing figures were absolutely amazing compared to the last DiRT World Championship. But that’s where the positives sadly end…

Starting with the format… Dear lord, this couldn’t have been done any worse in regards to the format. An Esports Championship is meant to decide the best driver, this usually means the fastest and most consistent. Yet in both Rally and Rallycross they decided to have a final decider stage/race in which wherever you finish, is your end result, turning it from a competition of consistency and pace, in a competition of just pace and luck.

That said, this was lessened a bit in Rally due to only the top 3 advancing to the next stage, but ultimately this still doesn’t excuse the fact all the previous stages and races are completely thrown away. In a proper Esports Championship every single race should count towards the winner. I find this format absolutely inexcusable, there was enough time to hold these races and stages, since they were driven, so they should’ve counter toward the overall victory.

This could’ve been fixed with the exact solution I mentioned when I talked about the Quarter- and Semi-Finals. In RX, have a set number of races, each awarding points and the one with the most points wins. In Rally, do the same, except get rid of the points and order based on cumulative time. If this is done, along with all other suggestions I made in this thread, then you can guarantee you have the best and I mean the most consistently fast driver there is.

On top of that, all finalists were limited to using a single car. Now I’ll admit, I’m unaware as to the reasoning behind this, but in any competition it should never be about limiting your drivers’ options, whether those be in regards to setup or cars. Some cars, some setups suit one drivers’ driving style more than the other, so there will always be someone who prefers one car over another. For that reason alone it’s a choice that never should be taken away.

Conclusion

To summarize, this DiRT World Championship was better in regards to production and viewing figures, but the overall format completely ruined the championship for both passionate fans, involved teams and participating drivers. This NEEDS to be improve for the next DiRT World Championship, it NEEDS to…Currently we have teams abandoning the DIRT Esports scene for WRC’s or even withdrawing from Rally entirely…Drivers aren’t being paid…Local/Smaller competitions aren’t held…The scene’s dying, and it’s up to Codemasters to provide an attractive platform for the external organizations to hold smaller competitions and to provide a good example as to how attractive it can be for teams, drivers and organizations to be apart of the DIRT Esports scene.

That concludes my overall opinion of the DIRT World Championship, @PJTierney I hope this suffices to give everyone involved enough feedback for the next iteration of this series. I bid you all a great day, and I truly hope it’ll improve on the things that went wrong this time around. 🙂

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Just watched some of the clips and the drivers just make it seem like the game is broken and completely unrealistic, hardly using the brakes and just using the gears to slow the car down. Just seems silly to me. 

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Totally agree with SereneLogic.  And I would like to add some things that were missed from a fan perspective, and as someone who also spent days practicing for the qualifiers:

 

In the open Qualifiers; Codies would announce which series of days would be the next qualifier out of 8 total.  However they would never write on the websites or on "paper" what hours they would open and close.  This was not entirely professional and kind of tripped me up once personally.

Second: The degradation levels of the stages were not published to everyone, so there people who sent slower or already qualified team mates to collect the info, and got an unfair advantage.  (this was easily predictable before organizing it).     Apparently it was  possible to go deep enough in the WS menu options to see the deg level I am told and sitll be able to back out without a DNF, but this was not at all clear from the menu and opposite to Dailies/Weeklies etc.

Third:  Qualifiers that consist of hot lapping to get in, and a single shot, are absurd.  Not what rally is really about.

Fourth: Lots of things were permitted in the qualifiers that were later not permitted in the semis or finals, such as but not limited to; controllers, keyboards, gross cuts.  If you want to qualify for X you need to test X during qualifying, not Y.  This is what happened here testing other skillsets during qualifying than during final competition.

Finals: WOW, where to start. Even with all the stuff already mentioned there was the fact that a 16 year old won the RX final, who is technically not allowed to participate according to the regulations set forth in the qualifiers.  (not that I am for blocking people by age, but what are rules if not rules.)

Obviously choosing one car is also bad in the final, no less a manufacturer (VW) who spewed thousands of tons of toxic diesel emissions into our atmosphere by cheating recently, and some of the execs are still running away from justice on that so it's not over and resolved.

 

Anyway, basically these events need to be organized so that consistency of rallying pays off (not one time luck based shootouts). And all the Intel people need to compete should be provided by the organizer (other than practice and learning the game).   Nothing should be left for under handed tactics like sending off team mates to provide sneaky info, times should be published, setups should be open from day 1 and so forth.   It should be a fair competition from the start.

Edited by bn880

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In the interest of opening up a discussion, what would be your ideal event format?

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3 hours ago, SereneLogic said:

With the competition now over, I guess it’s time to give my opinion/feedback of the DiRT World Championship…Oh boy…where to start - I guess at the beginning? I’ll be covering the topics based on the timeline, so I’ll start with the Qualifiers, then the Quarter- and Semi-Finals and then the Finals at the Autosport International Show.

Qualifiers

Honestly, I feel as if we already started off on the wrong footing, because as soon as the announcement was made and everyone dove into the “Sporting Regulations” and “Terms & Conditions” documents – And what they found, was no small feat. There were sections of the “Sporting Regulation” that outright contradicted each other, such as different graphics detailing the different ways a singular process was going to be handled. (For more information see the Reddit thread)

On top of that the “Sporting Regulations” were plain inaccurate up till a week before the Quarter-  and Semi-Finals, with many rules still be dated to the DiRT 4 era, and being outright impossible to achieve in DiRT Rally 2.0.

Furthermore, there was quite a lot of pushback regarding the fact that the cars that were being chosen for the Qualifiers, could only be driven with a default setup, which arguably removes a very important aspect to both Rally and Rallycross. Not to even mention the fact that assists were allowed, one of which, Launch Control, was a MAJOR advantage in Rallycross. Assists should NEVER be a factor in ANY Esports championship or competition.

Last but not least, the car classes chosen in the Qualifiers didn’t represent the game’s Esports scene as a whole, the fact they included Super 1600s, H2 FWDs and more, is very puzzling to me, as the people who get through on those are just hopelessly lost in contrast to the people that go through in the cars that are being used in the Quarter-, Semi- and Grand Finals. Personally I’d rather see the Qualifiers and all kinds of Finals use only the best cars, those being the Supercars and the R5s.

Quarter- and Semi-Finals

Moving on to the Quarter- and Semi-Finals, it was a disgrace that these were delayed a week, and it was an outright miracle some drivers managed to delay or cancel holidays due to this, especially considering it was a last minute notice only 2-3 days before the event.

The reasoning for this delay was the “Sporting Regulations” which were not ready for the Quarter- and Semi-Finals, due to the inconsistencies mentioned above. I’d love to give Codemasters some benefit of doubt, but I made a Reddit thread laying out the issues with the “Sporting Regulations” mere days after the announcement was made, so they could’ve been fixed well ahead of time.

Entering the actual Quarter- and Semi-Finals, which both were one Qualifying race and one Race. Firstly, the fact these are all single races that leads to the elimination of many is an idea that should be abolished. As a matter of fact, many drivers were taken out of the running for either the Semi-Finals or Grand Final due to no fault of their own, but a mistake or intentional action of another driver.

There’d have been a very simple way to mitigate this, to hold multiple races, each of which award points, and after a set number of races (2 or 3) the set amount of people with the most points continue to the next round. But we’ll be coming back to this topic when we’ll discuss the Grand Finals… Oh boy, bear with me for that.

Furthermore, the Quarter- and Semi-Finals for RX both utilized tracks on which overtaking was literally impossible without forcing someone off their line or even in a wall, as we could very well see in some of the races. These tracks were decided based on marketing and what Codemasters wanted to show, but rather they should have been chosen based on what would provide the best racing.

Last but not least the adjudicating/stewarding, coming from multiple drivers’ perspective this was done horribly, as we all feel certain actions should’ve warranted certain penalties to be dished out or removed in cases of being forced wide. But this wasn’t done, and in some case, because the result didn’t depend on it, these investigations weren’t even finished. And regardless of impact, incidents should always be investigated, otherwise drivers will always feel wronged.

Grand Finals

Moving on to the final chapter of the DiRT World Championships, the Grand Final at the Autosport International Show – And oh boy…is this a controversial topic. But lets begin with some positives, the viewing figures were absolutely amazing compared to the last DiRT World Championship. But that’s where the positives sadly end…

Starting with the format… Dear lord, this couldn’t have been done any worse in regards to the format. An Esports Championship is meant to decide the best driver, this usually means the fastest and most consistent. Yet in both Rally and Rallycross they decided to have a final decider stage/race in which wherever you finish, is your end result, turning it from a competition of consistency and pace, in a competition of just pace and luck.

That said, this was lessened a bit in Rally due to only the top 3 advancing to the next stage, but ultimately this still doesn’t excuse the fact all the previous stages and races are completely thrown away. In a proper Esports Championship every single race should count towards the winner. I find this format absolutely inexcusable, there was enough time to hold these races and stages, since they were driven, so they should’ve counter toward the overall victory.

This could’ve been fixed with the exact solution I mentioned when I talked about the Quarter- and Semi-Finals. In RX, have a set number of races, each awarding points and the one with the most points wins. In Rally, do the same, except get rid of the points and order based on cumulative time. If this is done, along with all other suggestions I made in this thread, then you can guarantee you have the best and I mean the most consistently fast driver there is.

On top of that, all finalists were limited to using a single car. Now I’ll admit, I’m unaware as to the reasoning behind this, but in any competition it should never be about limiting your drivers’ options, whether those be in regards to setup or cars. Some cars, some setups suit one drivers’ driving style more than the other, so there will always be someone who prefers one car over another. For that reason alone it’s a choice that never should be taken away.

Conclusion

To summarize, this DiRT World Championship was better in regards to production and viewing figures, but the overall format completely ruined the championship for both passionate fans, involved teams and participating drivers. This NEEDS to be improve for the next DiRT World Championship, it NEEDS to…Currently we have teams abandoning the DIRT Esports scene for WRC’s or even withdrawing from Rally entirely…Drivers aren’t being paid…Local/Smaller competitions aren’t held…The scene’s dying, and it’s up to Codemasters to provide an attractive platform for the external organizations to hold smaller competitions and to provide a good example as to how attractive it can be for teams, drivers and organizations to be apart of the DIRT Esports scene.

That concludes my overall opinion of the DIRT World Championship, @PJTierney I hope this suffices to give everyone involved enough feedback for the next iteration of this series. I bid you all a great day, and I truly hope it’ll improve on the things that went wrong this time around. 🙂

There are a lot of things you can say about format, drivers, cars.

The one who were there in the final are guys who mostly are on top in daily's or club events. Sure there are more fast drivers but these guys belonged there.

For an esport event it is pretty normal the last race is the real decider. Maybe not the most fair but they want there vistors/watchers to stay till the very end. Understandable.

In RX the car of choice was the title winning car of real WRX. Also understandable.

Congrats to the winners, and thank you codies for this top-tournament.

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5 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

In the interest of opening up a discussion, what would be your ideal event format?

My ideal format can be described in one of two ways, a singular event format and a championship format. The Championship format would basically represent a small- to medium-length Championship of a set number of rounds, I'f imagine anywhere between 3-6.

For Rally this'd follow a natural Rally, including Power Stages. And for RX this'd follow a Heats -> SF -> F format, albeit maybe not 4 Heats, since that'd be too long. These events would cover a spread of DLC and non-DLC tracks, narrow and non-narrow locations/tracks, tarmac, gravel, etc.

For a singular event I'd go with a Qualifiers into Quarter-Final into Semi-Final into Final format, but with 2 Races in the Quarter-Final, 3 Races in the Semi-Final and 5 Races in the Final, each awarding points based on the drivers' positions and the people with the most points go through. Of course each of these races would also have a Qualifying Race beforehand to dedide the grid on the same track, in the same conditions. (Basically this year's format, only with more races per Quarter- and Semi-Final, and all races in the Final counting towards the overall win, not towards a final decider.

Either of these would work, by my preference would go to the Championship-like format, as that's the better way to find out who's the best of the best, with a longer format like real-life.

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3 hours ago, Rallycameraman said:

Just watched some of the clips and the drivers just make it seem like the game is broken and completely unrealistic, hardly using the brakes and just using the gears to slow the car down. Just seems silly to me. 

Short Gearbox and downshifting to brake the car.... Car always overreving that's not driving a rally car. That was rediculus, but a setup option too.

Right now WRC esports as well as DiRT's e-sports is focusing on one stage (time attack) trials. This is not rallying! Rallying means consistency and pace. I would suggest a more of a rally approach to the whole series.

Maybe in the Finals two events with up to 6 or 8 stages would be better. Quarter finals same or with less maybe 4 stages. Participants would enjoy more and viewers will get something like WRC+ experience.

I loved commentators, Munnings was good choice. I would like to had her talking more about the rallying experience and the game experience.

Edited by GBratsos
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15 minutes ago, Janneman60 said:

There are a lot of things you can say about format, drivers, cars.

The one who were there in the final are guys who mostly are on top in daily's or club events. Sure there are more fast drivers but these guys belonged there.

For an esport event it is pretty normal the last race is the real decider. Maybe not the most fair but they want there vistors/watchers to stay till the very end. Understandable.

In RX the car of choice was the title winning car of real WRX. Also understandable.

Congrats to the winners, and thank you codies for this top-tournament.

I'd argue it isn't normal to have the last race be a decider in a multi race format, unless the racing's especially close. And from what I've seen the majority of people seem to agree. In RX 3 people out of the top 4 were eliminated due to forceful contact due to no fault of their own. That said, in Rally it was definitely less of an issue, due to it being near impossible to lose outside of your own fault.

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21 minutes ago, SereneLogic said:

My ideal format can be described in one of two ways, a singular event format and a championship format. The Championship format would basically represent a small- to medium-length Championship of a set number of rounds, I'f imagine anywhere between 3-6.

For Rally this'd follow a natural Rally, including Power Stages. And for RX this'd follow a Heats -> SF -> F format, albeit maybe not 4 Heats, since that'd be too long. These events would cover a spread of DLC and non-DLC tracks, narrow and non-narrow locations/tracks, tarmac, gravel, etc.

For a singular event I'd go with a Qualifiers into Quarter-Final into Semi-Final into Final format, but with 2 Races in the Quarter-Final, 3 Races in the Semi-Final and 5 Races in the Final, each awarding points based on the drivers' positions and the people with the most points go through. Of course each of these races would also have a Qualifying Race beforehand to dedide the grid on the same track, in the same conditions. (Basically this year's format, only with more races per Quarter- and Semi-Final, and all races in the Final counting towards the overall win, not towards a final decider.

Either of these would work, by my preference would go to the Championship-like format, as that's the better way to find out who's the best of the best, with a longer format like real-life.

Your Championship format sounds plausible for the playoffs, but what would you propose for the Qualifiers?

Races (for RX) aren’t really viable there as every race needs a host, and at scale you’re not going to get that. Therefore the current Challenge system is the main feasible option.

For Rally I guess a format similar to Clubs would work, where each Round is essentially a 12 Stage Event with points awarded.

Whatever formats are used need to work at a scale where tens of thousands of players can compete, and given how the rest of the game has been built on Daily/Weekly/Monthly Challenges that was likely the logical step for the series.

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1 hour ago, PJTierney said:

In the interest of opening up a discussion, what would be your ideal event format?

I think the format it what it should be for esport. Like this it is good for the public sitting in a lazy chair, don't take it to extreme to the real thing, neither the visitors do, they normally walk in dust or rain, in cold or hot weather. This is clearly in general another public.

Only thing is being more carefull in choosing a stage for qualifying, so to much cutting is not working.

Edited by Janneman60
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One possible format for Rally qualifiers would be a kind of extended/slowed monthly (championship) with a specific series like R5.  Everyone can enter and everyone is in when they start, and after certain weeks / events a number of participants makes it through to the next stages or event depending on points.   Calendar of events and conditions should be published on day 1.  As well as equipment that will be used in the finals.

 

This is just a very quick suggestion, and I would need more time to come up with more comprehensive suggestions as I don't organize clubs and don't have that much time on my hands right now.

 

Either way, I think that at least 6 fastest drivers didn't make it to the finals due to the breakup per platform.  And the fastest guys (PC) who made it in Joona/Mickey and others made it in DESPITE the format, not due to it.

Edited by bn880
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4 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

Your Championship format sounds plausible for the playoffs, but what would you propose for the Qualifiers?

Races (for RX) aren’t really viable there as every race needs a host, and at scale you’re not going to get that. Therefore the current Challenge system is the main feasible option.

For Rally I guess a format similar to Clubs would work, where each Round is essentially a 12 Stage Event with points awarded.

Whatever formats are used need to work at a scale where tens of thousands of players can compete, and given how the rest of the game has been built on Daily/Weekly/Monthly Challenges that was likely the logical step for the series.

Honestly, the Qualifers I'd not do much different than this iteration. I'd maybe lessen the amount of Qualifiers to 6, letting 2 through per Qualifier, dropping the cumulative as that was confusing for most. I'd also limit it to the classes such as R2R4, R5, GT and Gr. A, as realistically those are the only closses you'll ever get to using in the Quarter-, Semi- or Grand Finals. For RX, I'd limit them to RX2 and Supercars, for similar reasons. 

Personally I'd love for 16 people per platform, but that's a bit perhaps unrealistic given time constraints?

 

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11 hours ago, SereneLogic said:

Honestly, the Qualifers I'd not do much different than this iteration. I'd maybe lessen the amount of Qualifiers to 6, letting 2 through per Qualifier, dropping the cumulative as that was confusing for most.

 

I couldn't disagree more on this point, go the opposite with cumulative only but organize it so that people can properly track the times.  Again, the current format is anti rally and note only that Qualifiers are the largest part of the event.

Edited by bn880

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2 minutes ago, SereneLogic said:

Honestly, the Qualifers I'd not do much different than this iteration. I'd maybe lessen the amount of Qualifiers to 6, letting 2 through per Qualifier, dropping the cumulative as that was confusing for most. I'd also limit it to the classes such as R2R4, R5, GT and Gr. A, as realistically those are the only closses you'll ever get to using in the Quarter-, Semi- or Grand Finals. For RX, I'd limit them to RX2 and Supercars, for similar reasons. 

Personally I'd love for 16 people per platform, but that's a bit perhaps unrealistic given time constraints?

 

One thing I forgot to mention, in regards to RX Qualifiers this is pointless, but for Rally I'd actually make the qualifier consist of two stages, one long, one short. And spice up the weather a bit, keep degradation on Optimal/Low. 🙂

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@PJTierney Forgot to mention one CRUCIAL thing, for the love of god, announce who has gone through publicly. People did not know who was in the Quarter-Finals till they ended. xD

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Just forwarding some feedback here we generated in the DiRTy Discord, posting here so that more people from the company can review some of the discussions and suggestions by the community. Yeah Sorry it's long, I already trimmed off some irrelevant things.
3:19 PM]Rainbow/Maxiem:
Your addition was needed imo @bn880 Especially the cuts though. Really hurt the image of the event.
  (on cuts) :
5:11 PM]RSR SereneLogic: The way I know some league fix this, is by having the top 5 send in video recordings
[5:12 PM]bn880: yep, and codies have the recordings automagically
[5:12 PM]RSR SereneLogic: So if you finished top 5 in the qualifiers, you receive an email, and you send the video link, as unlisted
[5:12 PM]bn880: nice
[5:12 PM]RSR SereneLogic: Should be possible even for an automatic email system to be set up
IT geek talking
[5:13 PM]bn880: they have the telemetry for eSports logged. (ghost data)
[5:13 PM]bn880: just didn't want to invest the time to review the top drives (for cuts)(edited)
[5:13 PM]RSR SereneLogic: Added a few minor tweaks to my stuff
I somehow forgot to mention the weather, two stages per qualifier and the actual announcing of ya kno, those who went through
[5:14 PM]bn880: anyway, I think one of the very main issues with the qualifiers is that it was based on the one off one chance qualifiers (Rally). anything that's similar to that I think is a fail :regional_indicator_f:(edited)
[SNIP]
[5:16 PM]RSR SereneLogic: The issue of Qualifiers will always persist, as there is no optimal way to do it
[5:16 PM]bn880: why do you need to reset several times?
you technically dont need to reset anything
from day 1 of the competition to the finals
[5:17 PM]bn880: just set cutoffs
 in a championship format
[SNIP


[5:18 PM]RSR SereneLogic: Ah yes, that
[5:18 PM]RSR SereneLogic: Well you see, technical difficulties are still a thing
[5:18 PM]bn880: you don't have specialized qualifiers. you just have a world championship with thousands of drivers. and at X times/events you cut off the slowest guys
[5:18 PM]RSR SereneLogic: And I feel if you can't guarantee a game is 100% working all the time, you only can't do one big cumulative(edited)
[5:19 PM]bn880: until you are left with 128, 64, 16, 8 etc.
it's one possibilty
[5:19 PM]RSR SereneLogic: What you could do is make 3 big qualifier rounds of which the top 4 cumulative go through
That mitigates it a bit
[5:19 PM]bn880: IDK about that, it's how monthlies basically run already
[SNIPSNIP


[5:20 PM]RSR SereneLogic: PRoblem: TT focus, Solution: More stages before a person goes through(edited)
What way they go about this, doesn't matter 😛
[5:21 PM]bn880: well it does though, because you can improve that a tiny bit, or make a revolution and make it awesome
[5:21 PM]RSR SereneLogic: As I said, there's always external factors you have to take into consideration, and you also can't make it too complicated or people won't understand
Hell the amount of times I had to bloody explain this time's cumulative was mindboggling
😂
[5:23 PM]bn880: I am not making it complicated nor exposing it to more external factors
technically the 1 or 2 stage one off qualifiers are exposing you to more risk as it's very reliant on perfection
you could even give people in the World Championship 3 chances to put in their best time for each stage of the championship(edited)
so you limit hardware/tech issues
nothing complicated about a championship
[5:24 PM]RSR SereneLogic: A mini-championship of 2/3 rounds would be a nice way to decide a qualifer tbh
You'd have the same amount of qualifier "rounds" just bundled in 3 championships, each letting through the best 4, I'd assume
[5:26 PM]bn880: we're getting there yeah(edited)
I mean unless the worry is that the fastest guys will set a lead of 20 points or something ... then ok
[5:26 PM]RSR SereneLogic: You'd have maybe 2/3 stages per event, as time's still an issue, then 3 events per championship, same car class for a singular championship, diff class for the others.
[5:27 PM]bn880: I understand that there needs to be a little bit of a climax on a specific date, but for that you can Pause the competition at a certain points spread
and save the rest for the aired events
some stuff like that
so the only issue I do see with one long champ, is the possible lack of climax on final day (and again , there are ways to work the champ to fix that)(edited)
you could do double points on the final for example (R2 does stuff like this)(edited)
anyway I think we've made progress :adamo:
I think the current qualifiers should be discarded completely as a basis for improvement, start from scratch with fresh ideas.(edited)
Andrea-Adamo-Interesting.jpg?width=500&h


[5:39 PM]RSR SereneLogic: I mean, I think that's gonna happen anyways for the complete format
I'm sure someone can come up with a brilliant idea we could never think of
as long as it's brilliant I'm fine with it
[5:39 PM]bn880: of course (and hope so)(edited)
[5:40 PM]RSR SereneLogic: If I was paid to come up with good ideas and a structure, I'd invest more time in it
And since they'll be paid
😛
(I hope they pay them at least)
[5:40 PM]bn880: but what we saw so far didn't even sniff brilliant in it's life(edited)

SNIP


[12:46 PM]Riggs: the climax of the final event is easily solvable
just make the whole year long championship serve as the qualifier
and keep the final event the way it is currently, with a couple of tweaks here and there
problem solved, structure done.
this way you have both a thrilling championship, with lots of coverage opportunities(edited)
and an epic final event
whereas this final event wont have the silly playoffs for a last deciding stage
it'll be like the first part of the stream
and the winner is the one who gets the best cumulative time
to be honest i find that to be the most believable structure we can have
[12:52 PM]bn880: yeah that works or make somehow the main championship run to the end with some smart tinkering(edited)
[12:52 PM]Riggs: the problem of running the championship to the end is only one:
you can have a champion before the final LAN event
[12:52 PM]bn880: that's what I have been addressing
[12:52 PM]Riggs: otherwise it'd work
thats why i presented with a solution for that
[12:52 PM]bn880: double points on final event, and cut off final event by doing maths mid season if needed(edited)
[12:53 PM]Riggs: thats too much tinkering already XD
and double points might not cut it
[12:53 PM]bn880: well R2's have this
plus you can get points for stage wins
works IRL (makes it interesting)(edited)
[12:53 PM]Riggs: because ths way people will see their yearly performance penalized
[12:53 PM]bn880: yeah but its more penalized when you wipe it and start a new micro champ
[12:54 PM]Riggs: thats not penalized
it just sucks 😄
wait i thught u were talking about the current way
[12:54 PM]bn880: I'd first try to really do the math and analysis on running 1 champ. and see if it can be guaranteed to work with a reasonable finale
[12:54 PM]Riggs: the thing is
if u cut so much
[12:54 PM]bn880: points per event dont HAVE to be equal, you can add more on the table for finals
[12:54 PM]Riggs: it'll end up being like a micro champ
inside a big one
know what im saying?
[12:55 PM]bn880: yeah well that's kind of what you're asking for anyway with a climax
[12:55 PM]Riggs: yea but for example
[12:55 PM]bn880: but this way the original champ still has some nice continuity
[12:55 PM]Riggs: u run from monaco to wales
all the 12 rallies
12 stages each
[12:55 PM]bn880: ok
[12:55 PM]Riggs: and then on the final
[12:55 PM]bn880: yeah maybe, I know what you are saying(edited)
[12:55 PM]Riggs: u'd run all the rallies as well
but maybe 1 stage each
instead of focusing on wales only
i dunno
personally i'd be ok with having a big wales finale
it's nostalgic
but for coverage it can be a bit dull
[12:56 PM]bn880: well, they COULD make the final one stage per each event , aired live with double points
if they wanted
so all locations would be hit
lots of options
whatever they do, this time trialing stuff needs to go
[12:57 PM]Riggs: for good
[12:57 PM]Malkael:
Without degradation build up for each successive drive about the only reason to want to be first is lack of pressure chasing someone else's time. Though instead you get the pressure of setting the first time and not knowing what the benchmark will be. So IMO they might as well have no even bothered having the qualifier part. They could have just run several one-to-two stage points scoring events. Harder to have a run away winner if the deciding factor is points from event placing rather than time difference unless someone clearly deserves to win due to event consistency.
[12:58 PM]Riggs: but thats rallying malkael
it's also about consistency
and consistent drivers should be prized
right now it's all about time trialing
100% tryhard 0% consistency
the goal is finding an even spot
this year has been better
[12:59 PM]bn880: well I mean the drivers, a lot of them are consistent (to different degrees) but yeah the event structure overall is very luck based(edited)
[12:59 PM]Riggs: the D4 one was way worse
but still
a good way to prize a consistent driver would be adopting such hardcore championship for the qualifier
your prize is a ticket to the finals in england(edited)
if u win it or not, well thats up to u later
yea @bn880 , theres not even repairs or surface degradation in play during any part of this world series
why did they develop it all then
[1:01 PM]Malkael:
Still better than having a one off shoot out for the victory if they don't want to go all in. Because consistency obviously becomes a larger factor the more racing is done, whether that is in stages per event or number of events run in the championship.
[1:01 PM]bn880: I disagree, they even destroyed my run with a surprise degradation :troll~1: (but yeah I know)
adamo
3
[1:02 PM]Malkael:
Everyone is afraid of Adamo, even Codemasters. :troll~1:
adamo
2
[1:02 PM]bn880: They better be
Adamo_upset.png
[1:04 PM]Malkael:
Maybe they can follow their own rules better next time too, or change them. All those rules saying 18+ age requirement which put some younger people off entering due to thinking they were inelegible and then the RX winner is under 18 anyway.

[SNIP]


[3:04 PM]DamianGC ( WeRT_Babana 😞
tbh a championship based in almost 0 rules to avoid practice between stages for example, corner cutting and so on is not a good solution. You should take into account all of this stuff. Some of us work hard for that kind of clean competitions. It is hard but is doable. :wink:(edited)
(wrong tag sorry, @Riggs ) ^(edited)


[3:15 PM]Riggs: yeah but thats why you have community clubs
for esports it should follow with strict rules, because thats what esports is all about
please can someone do that copy pasting work : D
[3:20 PM]DamianGC ( WeRT_Babana 😞
copy & paste the whole channel ??

Edited by bn880

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Hey everyone, it's been a long time since I last logged in these forums lol (maybe prior to september? i can't even remember). Anyway it's good to be back.

When I find some time (hopefully soon), i'll be preparing a proper PDF with a suggestion for a rally world series format. I'll leave RX to SereneLogic, since he's already thinking about it and has more in-depth knowledge on RX.

However, I'd like to congratulate the team for another successful World Series. The production was simply amazing, top notch, the team really deserves an applause. The commentators were great, the cameras, the interviews. Basically the whole production and team, this is the right path and it is successful. The ambience was there and so was the adrenaline.

Now we just need to structure a proper rally championship to make justice to the quality of this whole production, because it is the only thing at fault in this World Series, despite this version being a considerable improvement over D4 World Championship. The bottomline is, it's still too much time-trialing and 0% rallying and consistency work, that's where this World Series fails big time, and that's where we need to work on. But once again, still better than last edition's. The final stage of this World Series was basically a big example of what's wrong with this kind of structure, it completely scrapped the cumulative consistent gaps drivers were building and instead placed the top 3 on a time-trial deciding stage.

The devs have been exhaustively working on the car repair systems, part degradation, stage deformation and degradation, tyre degradation, and none of these have been used during this final, which is a shame. It's quite easy to see what's wrong and how to fix it. You have laid all the systems and platforms you need in order to make a thrilling esports championship, but decided not to use any single one of them, except for the new spectator mode.

All in all, it's all positives compared to the last edition, don't get me wrong. It's just that the rally championship structure hasn't grown as green as the rest of the things, and that's where this PDF will try to present one or two solutions. I'll be back with more news soon, in a new topic.

Cheers 😉

Edited by Riggs
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That's funny, because most people who watched the DR2 Stage Rally finals enjoyed the one by one passes through the stage, like super specials.  What I would definitely do is have the drivers in a mini screen on there all the time, and one window showing the previous competitors watching as well (same as WRC+ really)

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