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Stock Tuning Setups in DiRT Rally 2.0 World Series

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HI.

In the Dirt 2.0 world competition, one can read that "setup for are fixed for online competition".

Does this mean that the car setup will be fixed ? 

This would be definitely unfair and counterproductive. I spent hours and hours in the last months to find the right setup for my cars according to my driving style. The basic setups are not drive-able when one wants to achieve good chronos. This would ruin the competition. It would be like in the WRC , all pro drivers were given the same car, with the same settings, a non sense.

In counterpart CM would allow "assist" feature which is not desirable.

Could the organisers of the DR 2.0 World Championship reconsider this aspect of the conditions.

Thanks.

Zefrancou

Below my recent WR including the Car setup (no assist, and soft lock on) to show that it is different from the basic.

 

Edited by zefrancou
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Totally agree. Different driving styles needs different setups. This is very unprofessional. We have also

been practising and working on setups since the announcement, so this restriction comes way too late!

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32 minutes ago, zefrancou said:

The basic setups are not drive-able when one wants to achieve good chronos

While I understand for most people setups a required and can do wonders in helping your get better times - your statement above is flatout wrong.

I race all cars 100% stock to prove a point and I hold a decently long list of WR's in everything from H2 to 2000cc and GT. But I'm slow compared to the actually fast drivers. The top drivers, who we are expecting to actually make it through qualifiers, are setting times below 3:52 on the current WC stage in Poland with the H2 FWD - they are doing it 100% stock without cuts.

By limiting setups during qualifiers you can very quickly eliminate all of the "good but not great" drivers. The best drivers, the ones who should be in the championship, aren't going to be limited by setup. Sure they could go fast with a custom tune, but they are still going to absolutely crush your times 100% stock even if you had a full custom tune. Welcome to the big leagues.

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Im not Top 100, but my opinion. To be fair I think same difficulty for everyone. Assists should be fixed. Not setup. 

Fixed assists means, no assists to see who are the most talented ones.

Have a look to Fifa eSports. Contenders have their own Team and own tactics they can use and have even the possibillity to change in a running session.

Setups are elemental keyfactors in motorsports.

Fixed setups and allowed assists contradict the compettion in my eyes.

Just my opinion.

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42 minutes ago, zefrancou said:

 

This would be definitely unfair and counterproductive.

 

The exact opposite is the case. It'll be the same for everyone. If you have lots of experience in tuning and know how to set a car up, you have an advantage over those who don't. That would be unfair and that's why it's a common thing that in online competitions setups are fixed. 

Edited by richie
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4 minutes ago, richie said:

The exact opposite is the case. It'll be the same for everyone. If you have lots of experience in tuning and know how to set a car up, you have an advantage over those who don't. That would be unfair and that's why it's a common thing that in online competitions setups are fixed. 

The simple way to approach this is always no-tune qualifiers, with full tune semis/finals.

The reason being that tunes are only required at the very top end. The top 36 drivers are still going to basically all make it into the qualifiers regardless of if tuning is allowed. Maybe you'll have a shuffle of 4-5 people who might make it/fail depending on tuning rules, but you aren't going to magically see someone who places 500th without a tune somehow be running a top 10 pace.

Having the advantage of tuning is definitely something that shouldn't be fully taken away from people. But it doesn't really have any place in the qualifiers. It is something you save for the end when you are the absolute best in competition. That is when you'll need them to tune for every 100th of a second.

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It is unfair in the sense that many spent hours of effort to find the right setup for their cars. Once you are back to the basic setup, all the spent time is lost. Secondly it is not coherent because custom car setup will be allowed in the final.

 

Nothing can prevent those having difficulties to setup their car to use the basic.

A a car setup is not worth 100 ms , but can impact seconds.

If you take basic setups of the RWDs which slip, spin at deceleration, or loose grip at entry or exit of corners unexpectedly, or the Audi quattro bouncing like crazy , the setup are critical.

Edited by zefrancou
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4 minutes ago, Mike Dee said:

While I understand for most people setups a required and can do wonders in helping your get better times - your statement above is flatout wrong.

I race all cars 100% stock to prove a point and I hold a decently long list of WR's in everything from H2 to 2000cc and GT. But I'm slow compared to the actually fast drivers. The top drivers, who we are expecting to actually make it through qualifiers, are setting times below 3:52 on the current WC stage in Poland with the H2 FWD - they are doing it 100% stock without cuts.

By limiting setups during qualifiers you can very quickly eliminate all of the "good but not great" drivers. The best drivers, the ones who should be in the championship, aren't going to be limited by setup. Sure they could go fast with a custom tune, but they are still going to absolutely crush your times 100% stock even if you had a full custom tune. Welcome to the big leagues.

You can stop lying right there! I am 2nd, and i do NOT use stock settings. No way any of the other 2 of top 3 is using stock. 

I can confirm that none of us have been cutting, yet, but how do you know? You are too slow to see if we cut on the last hay ball. 

My time at the moment is 3:47.062 - All top 10 are below 3:48.924

 

Limiting setups have nothing to do with finding out who is the good drivers. We have different styles of driving, Scandinavian flick

is one, how you use your pedals in coordination with brake balance setup is another. Who is this event for anyway? The fastest,

most dedicated drivers, or the casual Sunday driver? Should the fast drivers learn to drive with assists and stupid setups that are

unfit for the stage and driving style, or should the novices learn how to drive and adjust gears and other important stuff in the setups?? 

Is this the World Championship on Sunday drivers? It really makes no sense... 

 

And again, applying setup restriction less than 24 hour before the event is just unprofessional.

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2 minutes ago, Eagleizer said:

You can stop lying right there! I am 2nd, and i do NOT use stock settings.

No one is saying the absolute top times are using stock - we all knew they were using custom tunes before they learned the limits. The rest of us have all been running stock though to practice for this event, and the people who are running stock can still get below 3:50. Not many of them, but a handful. The rest are stuck in the 3:55-3:50 range. I am not referring to the "top of the current board" because those aren't actually the top drivers most of the time. The ones I am referring to you all know by name already.

 

As for top 10 below 3:48 - cool, I haven't checked in 2 days but no one really cares. Unless your times are run stock and you're posting below a 3:50, you aren't getting through qualifiers. There are people much faster than you that can. And it wasn't applied "24 hours before the event". We've known about this restriction since the day the World Championship was announced.

Not our fault a bunch of you didn't want to read the rules and are now mad your current times with tunes aren't going to hold up to the competition.

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Just changing the gear box setup on the peugeot GTI for KOPINA (poland) makes a difference of 30 seconds . So ia m afraid you are wrong Mike.

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2 minutes ago, zefrancou said:

Just changing the gear box setup on the peugeot GTI for KOPINA (poland) makes a difference of 30 seconds . So ia m afraid you are wrong Mike.

HAHAHAHAHA.

:classic_laugh: If you can get 30 seconds out of the gearbox, you're driving the car wrong :classic_laugh:

 

Get your pace down to a 4:00 stock setup, then do your gearbox change. Let's see you magically make that a 3:30, we will all wait 👍

Edited by Mike Dee
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Well, top speed with short gear box is 156 km/h, while with long gear it becomes 190 km/h...I went from 4:40 to 4:03.

But mainly the dampers and spring were affecting the chronos to keep stability and avoid sliding into the banks in poland

Edited by zefrancou
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2 minutes ago, Mike Dee said:

No one is saying the absolute top times are using stock - we all knew they were using custom tunes before they learned the limits. The rest of us have all been running stock though to practice for this event, and the people who are running stock can still get below 3:50. Not many of them, but a handful. The rest are stuck in the 3:55-3:50 range. I am not referring to the "top of the current board" because those aren't actually the top drivers most of the time. The ones I am referring to you all know by name already.

 

As for top 10 below 3:48 - cool, I haven't checked in 2 days but no one really cares. Unless your times are run stock and you're posting below a 3:50, you aren't getting through qualifiers. There are people much faster than you that can. And it wasn't applied "24 hours before the event". We've known about this restriction since the day the World Championship was announced.

Not our fault a bunch of you didn't want to read the rules and are now mad your current times with tunes aren't going to hold up to the competition.

Well, than I apologize! But:

There were no rules mentioned in the event announcement! 

They were posted here today AFAIK. But you can easily prove your claim with a link.

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3 minutes ago, zefrancou said:

Well, top speed with short gear box is 156 km/h, while with long gear it becomes 190 km/h...

You could make it 320 km/h and it wouldn't help you gain 30 seconds (ok maybe at that point it would, but you'll be wrapping the car around a tree at the first corner).

The point is though that the gearing alone isn't going to save you that much time. Yes tuning makes people fast, no it isn't going to make the average driver suddenly competitive. The only thing a tune is going to do help the absolute top drivers squeeze out a few seconds on a Long against each other - they will all still be 10 seconds ahead of the rest of us.


@Eagleizer check the regulations:
https://www.codemasters.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/DIRT-Rally-2.0-World-Series-2019_2020-Sporting-Regulations.pdf
 

image.png

Edited by Mike Dee
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I like it. It evens the playing field. They should just have forced all assists off too.

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46 minutes ago, zefrancou said:

Well, top speed with short gear box is 156 km/h, while with long gear it becomes 190 km/h...I went from 4:40 to 4:03.

If it really is as you are saying, it will slow down anyone the same way, won't it?
Therefore the competition remain fair.

Edited by MaXyMsrpl
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34 minutes ago, Mike Dee said:

You could make it 320 km/h and it wouldn't help you gain 30 seconds (ok maybe at that point it would, but you'll be wrapping the car around a tree at the first corner).

The point is though that the gearing alone isn't going to save you that much time. Yes tuning makes people fast, no it isn't going to make the average driver suddenly competitive. The only thing a tune is going to do help the absolute top drivers squeeze out a few seconds on a Long against each other - they will all still be 10 seconds ahead of the rest of us.


@Eagleizer check the regulations:
https://www.codemasters.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/DIRT-Rally-2.0-World-Series-2019_2020-Sporting-Regulations.pdf
 

image.png

 

I have seen the document! It's what this thread is about. 

You said: "We've known about this restriction since the day the World Championship was announced.".

My question is where and when whas the link provided? 

 

BTW: I loaded up your Ghost at Kopina. How do you explain the you first fly by me at the long

stretch in 1st sector, and then fly by me on the stretch in 2nd sector when I am going at full

speed, 168 KM/h? And Yes, I did enter the stretch before you, even though you took the

shortcut to the right of the tree. Not that I have anything against cutting... 

 

Driving with full RPM through the whole stage is nothing but a nightmare for my ears and brain. 

It's like having my ears filled with wasps. This fixed setups is the stupidest ever, and resembles

nothing of real life. That engine would fry long before finish...

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2 minutes ago, MaXyMsrpl said:

If it really is as you are saying, it will slow down anyone the same way, won't it?
Therefore the competition remain fair.

How is it fair when you cannot fit the setup to your driving style? And it is also

incredibly boring with a nightmare of RPM throughout the whole stage. It's

mostly just steering the car, no skill involved as it is VEEERY slow......

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Just now, Eagleizer said:

How is it fair when you cannot fit the setup to your driving style?

I commented only on the "gear ratio". It has nothing (or very little) to do with driving style.

And you know what: competitive driving of slow car requires more skill than fast one.

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2 hours ago, Eagleizer said:

 

Limiting setups have nothing to do with finding out who is the good drivers. We have different styles of driving, Scandinavian flick

is one, how you use your pedals in coordination with brake balance setup is another. Who is this event for anyway? The fastest,

most dedicated drivers, or the casual Sunday driver? Should the fast drivers learn to drive with assists and stupid setups that are

unfit for the stage and driving style, or should the novices learn how to drive and adjust gears and other important stuff in the setups?? 

Is this the World Championship on Sunday drivers? It really makes no sense... 

 

 

I think this event - at least during the qualification round - is open to everyone and any skill level. The best drivers will have no issues adapting to the circumstances. Overall stock setups are not too bad and do not prevent you from using the scandinavian flick in any way. 

Edited by richie
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3 minutes ago, Eagleizer said:

How is it fair when you cannot fit the setup to your driving style? And it is also

incredibly boring with a nightmare of RPM throughout the whole stage. It's

mostly just steering the car, no skill involved as it is VEEERY slow......

No one gets to setup the car for their driving style. That’s how it’s fair.

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At least with the Golf, the default gears are so short that you cannot achieve any decent leaderboard time with it. 

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5 minutes ago, MaXyMsrpl said:

If it really is as you are saying, it will slow down anyone the same way, won't it?
Therefore the competition remain fair.

The gearbox changed a lot, but as written earlier,  this is not the only parameters. I modified the dampers, springs, differential , toe and camber. I tried many times the Golf GTI, which is supposed to go faster in general than the Peugeot, I could never catch the peugeot on this track.

The purpose of the game is not Arcade, it is rally sim. Therefore, if this is an online championship, we shall be able to use the basic setup or custom ones. What I tried to discuss in this thread is the spirit of this game, based on learning curve, modifying setups to get faster times. If the competition consists in slowing down the race or increasing the risk of smashing the cars into trees because of the basic setups are inadequate, while allowing custom setup only in the final, then I am frankly disapointed

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8 minutes ago, zefrancou said:

The purpose of the game is not Arcade, it is rally sim. Therefore, if this is an online championship, we shall be able to use the basic setup or custom ones

There is no relationship between Sim vs Arcade and fixed vs custom setups.
The reason for fixed setup has been already stated: the same initial conditions for all attendees. In semi/finales custom setups are allowed because it's different level of competition where setup will do matter.

 

14 minutes ago, AadHofman said:

At least with the Golf, the default gears are so short that you cannot achieve any decent leaderboard time with it. 

Nobody requires leaderboard times during qualification.

 
 
Edited by MaXyMsrpl
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5 minutes ago, MaXyMsrpl said:

 

Nobody requires leaderboard times during qualification.

 
 

Yeah, but Mike Dee claimed that there are near WR times done with the default setup. Not possible with the Golf. 

Driving half the stage on the limiter is no fun anyway.

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