Please review the co driver on dirt rally 2.0

[Protomorph 5]

Hi there cm. First of all great job you're doing with your racing games i'm having a blast playing them. Don't get me wrong but the co driver in this game has a lot of errors. I mean a lot. I'm going to mention some of them so I hope you can do something because the co driver is a crucial part on a rally game:

. Keep right/ left over crest makes the player hit the wall ( should be called a 6 or "gentle" turn)

. Too many "opens", "tightens" and "long" calls where it doesnt happen. This happens constantly through the game.( in poland there is a 6 left where he says "opens" but it tightens, and take a look at the first turn at the zienki or something stage, a short 6 right where he calls long).

.some "opens over crest" calls are wrong because at the moment of the crest the turn is already faded, but in others the call is correct, so I never know what happens. This one also happens frequently.

. I think it was in australia that theres a call of a "5 left over crest" that the crest exists but the turn doesnt, its straight.

. A lot of "6" calls should be called as "flats"

. There are turns that should be called in the notes that "continuous over crest" ( and some times over two crests).

At the moment I think thats all I think you should take your time to review the co driver because, in my opinion (I dont know about others) you should do it.

Thanks

 

 

[deadredeyes 29]

The calls in this game are abysmal, and the fact that they simplified it even more so that n00bs could understand really ruins the immersion. There's zero use of the term acute, too many 1 Right (or Left) Tightens that are nothing more than hairpins, uses the term "caution" but never explains what to be cautious of, mentions of long turns that are not long at all, mentions "keep in" before jumps which should be called "6 over crest". What's worse of all is that there is no plus or minus use in this game. Bloody hell.

[MaXyMsrpl 253]

I found caution and keep in (do not widen, after apex there are obstacles outside) quite useful.

What bothers me more are turns which are communicated too late. It's not like all of them - but one or two for the whole location. In Greece I found 2 critical places so far, where some thigh turn after very fast sequence is just too late. And it's in 2000's car. It could be even worse with more powerful/faster ones.

But also I found a lot of notes have been corrected in locations taken from DR1.

BTW have you seen retro-reflective elements on railings in Greece? Nice addition in comparison to DR1.

[Mike Dee 1,029]

28 minutes ago, MaXyMsrpl said:

In Greece I found 2 critical places so far, where some thigh turn after very fast sequence is just too late. And it's in 2000's car. It could be even worse with more powerful/faster ones.

The one stage that opens with the downhill over jump/crest into hairpin right - I think the stage is Ampelonas Ormi. If you don't know that hairpin is there, the call doesn't come until you're in 6th gear halfway to redline and 50ft passed any kind of braking point that might be able to save you. The real problem is Phil just rambles on and talks way way wayyy too much. If they removed every other word he said, the notes would probably all be on time then and we wouldn't lose any pertinent info 90% of the time. 

[Protomorph 5]

3 hours ago, MaXyMsrpl said:

I found caution and keep in (do not widen, after apex there are obstacles outside) quite useful.

What bothers me more are turns which are communicated too late. It's not like all of them - but one or two for the whole location. In Greece I found 2 critical places so far, where some thigh turn after very fast sequence is just too late. And it's in 2000's car. It could be even worse with more powerful/faster ones.

But also I found a lot of notes have been corrected in locations taken from DR1.

BTW have you seen retro-reflective elements on railings in Greece? Nice addition in comparison to DR1.

Yes you re right. I also found a left 2 in usa that I crash every time because the co driver calls it when I'm right on top of the barriers.

[Protomorph 5]

I understand that making a co driver that suits everyone is impossible and it should be very difficult to develop, it depends a lot from the driving style and particulary how you exit the turns and your position on the track, but I'm having a hard time trying to figure out the picture of the trail in this game, I don't know why phill talks so much things that doesn't happen on the track, too many "longs", "opens", "tightens", that doesnt exist, "long opens" when it should be vice versa: "opens long". I am a lot slower because I have to give a huge margin of error from the calls. Those things doesnt matter how you drive

Edited September 12 by Protomorph

[ianism 986]

it's worse in non-english languages too 😕

[deadredeyes 29]

1 hour ago, ianism said:

it's worse in non-english languages too 😕

I switched over to the German co-driver to see if they were better, and I was thoroughly disappointed. 

Also realized there's 0 mention of "kinks" where there are a ton, especially in Poland, that could be incredibly handy, and very few mentions of "braking" when going into turns or hairpins. 

Edited September 12 by deadredeyes

[gk9147 139]

@PJTierney  now  you see I'm not alone in saying it

[gk9147 139]

yes is same for french co-driver  have   lot of  bad pad pace note , and sometimes " open" and "close" for enough 

[chukonu 430]

What I appreciated in DR1 was the little details in some calls that are now missing, such as 'be brave', 'acute', 'flat over', 'around tree', 'don't cut', etc. It helped navigating me through the stage and added more character to the experience.

What's also missing in both titles is more fluctuations/accentuation on important calls. After the technical bit in Poland there's 4 right tightens and then an unseen 1 left, but the 1 left is said quietly and therefore I always overshoot it. It should be called out louder because it's an important call.

There's more left to be desired in the way that your speed doesn't seem to have much of an influence on the codriver like it used to have. I think maybe it's bugged? I feel like there used to be more 'modes' of audio recordings depending on speed.

@PJTierney if we went through the stages as a community and made a coherent list of additions, ideas, notes - do you think a rerecording is a possibility?

[Buckwilder 489]

In my experience Poland has the most call errors. There are a few 6’s that are 4’s, and vice versa. There is one section where he calls 4 right about 200M before the turn occurs. There is also the blatant immediate 6 right over jump in to 1 right and 2 left sequence that happens way to fast and the call spacing does not pace the sequence correctly. Used to get me all the time but now I know it and slow down in time.  

I feel like the notes could be vastly improved. Never mind changing the verbiage or adding new remarks, but just tighten up the timing, and the accuracy. No matter how well I know the tracks, I still rely on the pace notes heavily and they fool me from time to time because when I am in the ‘flow’ it’s second nature to react based on the call despite muscle memory of the track knows better when the call is wrong.

Call it splitting hairs or nit-picking, but in a Rally game the notes should be spot-on.

 

Edited September 14 by Buckwilder

[Flens07 49]

I switched the (German) pacenotes off since a few weeks. It is so annoying and then you suddenly get three four curves in one and then nothing more. It´s impossible to remember this while driving!

Edited September 14 by Flens07

[bigburt82 31]

Some stages have really good notes but there several where the pace notes are poor and have resulted in a crash, ruined stage, lost time etc.

Telling me to "Cut" when there is a sheer drop, not mentioning logs, posts and other obstacles on some bends, late calls where you don;t have time to react. It's frustrating... 

[Tranzitive 250]

1) the biggest problem with the calls is that they aren't said fast enough. i posted a comparison a while back of Phil Mills calling Petter Solberg at a stage in Monte Carlo in real life, and then the exact same stage in DR2.0 and you can see how much faster the calls are in real life. you have to put the youtube video of DR2.0 on 1.5 times speed to get the speed at which the calls should be said. at the moment you can choose whether you want the calls earlier, normal, or later, would love to see an option in future rally games to set the speed of the calls as well. normal, faster, or slower. i would actually take that over how early or late they're called if i had to choose.

2) so much missing info. like someone else mentioned i'd really like plus and minus. so many places as well where there should be 'don't cut'. especially in Spain. so many places where the guard rail will start and if you cut you just end up skidding up and along it like a skateboard. 

3) weird gaps between calls that should be continuous. there's this one point in this one stage in New England which is notorious for this. it's a 3 right into a 3 left and the first part of the call is said and then there's this BIG PAUSE and then the second part of the call, when it should have been read as one call like "3 right into immediate 3 left". there's one or two parts in Australia too that are like that, probably some other places in other locations but those two are the ones i can remember just off the top of my head. 

i actually found it on youtube, video starts at 2:52. Beaver Creek Trail Reverse. it's the 3 right, caution tightens turn 2 .... and then there's a big gap ... and then the second part of the call, which is "into 3 left":

 

in general though the calls are okay. and it's nice to have an actual real-life co-driver doing them, which i do appreciate a lot. really miss Nicky Grist though.

Edited September 15 by Tranzitive

[Buckwilder 489]

14 hours ago, Tranzitive said:

1) the biggest problem with the calls is that they aren't said fast enough. i posted a comparison a while back of Phil Mills calling Petter Solberg at a stage in Monte Carlo in real life, and then the exact same stage in DR2.0 and you can see how much faster the calls are in real life. you have to put the youtube video of DR2.0 on 1.5 times speed to get the speed at which the calls should be said. at the moment you can choose whether you want the calls earlier, normal, or later, would love to see an option in future rally games to set the speed of the calls as well. normal, faster, or slower. i would actually take that over how early or late they're called if i had to choose.

2) so much missing info. like someone else mentioned i'd really like plus and minus. so many places as well where there should be 'don't cut'. especially in Spain. so many places where the guard rail will start and if you cut you just end up skidding up and along it like a skateboard. 

3) weird gaps between calls that should be continuous. there's this one point in this one stage in New England which is notorious for this. it's a 3 right into a 3 left and the first part of the call is said and then there's this BIG PAUSE and then the second part of the call, when it should have been read as one call like "3 right into immediate 3 left". there's one or two parts in Australia too that are like that, probably some other places in other locations but those two are the ones i can remember just off the top of my head. 

i actually found it on youtube, video starts at 2:52. Beaver Creek Trail Reverse. it's the 3 right, caution tightens turn 2 .... and then there's a big gap ... and then the second part of the call, which is "into 3 left":

 

in general though the calls are okay. and it's nice to have an actual real-life co-driver doing them, which i do appreciate a lot. really miss Nicky Grist though.

Yup. I preferred the calls in DR1. One would think (and it would stand to reason), the calls in the DR2 would be equal too - if not better than its predecessor- sadly that is not the case.

[Flens07 49]

1 hour ago, Buckwilder said:

Yup. I preferred the calls in DR1.

Same thoughts! In DR1 I listen to the pacenotes and thea are usefull! (Until you know all stages out of the box, but then it is the imersion and not anoying)

[gk9147 139]

On 9/14/2019 at 12:22 AM, chukonu said:

What I appreciated in DR1 was the little details in some calls that are now missing, such as 'be brave', 'acute', 'flat over', 'around tree', 'don't cut', etc. It helped navigating me through the stage and added more character to the experience.

What's also missing in both titles is more fluctuations/accentuation on important calls. After the technical bit in Poland there's 4 right tightens and then an unseen 1 left, but the 1 left is said quietly and therefore I always overshoot it. It should be called out louder because it's an important call.

There's more left to be desired in the way that your speed doesn't seem to have much of an influence on the codriver like it used to have. I think maybe it's bugged? I feel like there used to be more 'modes' of audio recordings depending on speed.

@PJTierney if we went through the stages as a community and made a coherent list of additions, ideas, notes - do you think a rerecording is a possibility?

 agreed for me i kike dr 1.0 pace note  but in finland you have co driver said lot of time   ' into junction' and dont cut for enough because you want  listen the next turn and  you see the turn on day and night stages    , and i agreed too in greece when co-driver said around the tree on hairpin  this info is important  

[Jake Cushing 550]

For me there's a lack of 'cautions' eg in Monte before you hit a chicane with those evil little walled bits, and in NZ where you will go flying off a hill unless you slow right down.

'Caution' is so useful yet is woefully underused.

[richie 403]

21 hours ago, Tranzitive said:

i actually found it on youtube, video starts at 2:52. Beaver Creek Trail Reverse. it's the 3 right, caution tightens turn 2 .... and then there's a big gap ... and then the second part of the call, which is "into 3 left":

 

 

?  I think the call in this case is totally fine. The car hasn't even reached the part where the turn tightens when Phil calls the 3 left. Plenty of time to prepare for that turn imo. 

Edited September 15 by richie

[chrisjaf 75]

nicky grist would be better phil mills just drones on like white noise with no emotion, feeling or fear.it's like he's reeling off his shopping list in mono tone

[Tranzitive 250]

On 9/15/2019 at 10:28 PM, richie said:

?  I think the call in this case is totally fine. The car hasn't even reached the part where the turn tightens when Phil calls the 3 left. Plenty of time to prepare for that turn imo. 

when the "into 3 left" is called the car is already in the middle of the tight turn 2. and if you look at the corner sequence, it's a tight turn 2 into an immediate tight left 3. that should be called continuously. the guy playing the video sucks as well, he's not going that fast, if you approach that sequence of corners at a decent speed it's going to catch you out a lot of the time.

also notice that there's a bale on the inside of the tight turn 2, and this hazard isn't called at all. an example of some of the missing information in the notes.

[Johnnnn 94]

On 9/15/2019 at 7:05 PM, chrisjaf said:

nicky grist would be better phil mills just drones on like white noise with no emotion, feeling or fear.it's like he's reeling off his shopping list in mono tone

But sometimes he's instantly much louder and it scares me a lot and go off track 😄 Sounds like he sees alien invasion or something similar.

[richie 403]

1 hour ago, Tranzitive said:

when the "into 3 left" is called the car is already in the middle of the tight turn 2. and if you look at the corner sequence, it's a tight turn 2 into an immediate tight left 3. that should be called continuously. the guy playing the video sucks as well, he's not going that fast, if you approach that sequence of corners at a decent speed it's going to catch you out a lot of the time.

also notice that there's a bale on the inside of the tight turn 2, and this hazard isn't called at all. an example of some of the missing information in the notes.

That is a place where you can easily overshoot the corner and lose tons of time. The guy might've braked too early but generally you need to brake early there and make sure you get a good exit out of that 3 left. I'm not disagreeing that some calls need extra info, but this particular case is fine in my view. 

[ewandwhoelse 0]

On 9/17/2019 at 10:47 AM, Tranzitive said:

the guy playing the video sucks as well, he's not going that fast

Just hold off on the judging other people as sucking yeah? He's having fun with the game. Maybe say he's slow, rather than "sucks", it's all relative.

I'd like to add to the above complaints about the co-driver, which I completely agree with, and say that his little post-race comments are infuriating. "lets check the tyres" and "that felt fast" needs to stop. There's only a few of them you hear them every damn time.