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Too much grip !!

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coming from someone who has a WRX and likes to take it out on the dirt roads quite often, I completely agree with Ethan. I feel the cars have too much grip . I do not get that sliding sensation.  Also the braking distances feel really short compared to real life. 

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Thanks for Your input gents. I will post a direct video comparison video soon (real life/ DiRT Rally). I have a working weekend right now, so cannot do anything at the moment. At the beginning of next week I will start working on it.

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So I haven't properly played dirt since February, I just got a controller set up last night and played for a few hours.

The braking can sometimes feel a little short, but not all the time, so maybe it's something to do with the different gravel types? The front wheel drive grip feels pretty perfect to me, but I'd maybe agree that you can't slide the fiesta as much as you should, but I need a bit more time with it to fully make up my mind

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You should gone for some drive and test you car in the corner: relase gas pedal and you car should, if its FWD understeer, if RWD oversteer (if 4WD its should oversteer or understeer, according to the diffs settings). 
Now try this in Dirt, nothing happens, car is accelerating and is totally planted to ground, this is the due to high grip value, the result of this is also no inertia, mass control.
Try some other games like LFS (for me the best car simulation game, the car feels just like in a real) or Assetto Corsa, then you will feel that is something wrong with Dirt physic.

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way too much grip i agree ,but also momentum of car with no weight feel is biggest issue for me.I mean in Greece i cant get the 230 hp Fiat to do 80 mph on a straight as it keeps wanting to slow between shifts as the engine breaks waaaaay tooo much .Slow down via brakes is barely needed in corners etc 

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I wouldn't say there's too much grip. As for the video that PiotrAS191 posted, he just chose a wrong gear for that corner. That Lancia Stratos LOVES to rev. There's no life at all under 5000 rpm and it really starts going after 6000 rpm. From the video it's evident that the revs were definitely below 5000.
Here's a recent drive I took with the Stratos, where You can see that as long as you keep the engine revved up, it's very tail happy.
http://youtu.be/0y7XuIypA0g

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hello folks

you can change the grip levels of every car. i changed the subaru to 'low' grip tires and the difference was subtle at 1st, but it make a huge difference once you get down to the nitty gritty

cars>models>(select you car of choice, mine was impreza, so '555') >tuning. inside here we have 3 default tuning setups for each country. open each 1 and change the tire grip value at the bottom from 'med' to 'low'

try it out, i think its much harder now, much looser feel to things without having to drive too slow

MM


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I love the RWD cars. They actually feel like RWD on gravel. Take away a tad of grip and it's  freakin spot on. The Escort should really step out sideways when applying the throttle with a tight diff.

Seriously, I love the feel when getting off the line in first gear and then clunking in second gear, the car steps out with the rear end while the gravel spray hits the bodywork. It's rally heaven :) Same thing coming out of hairpins. Righ there and then it feels fantastic!

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Okay so finally worked to a point where  i can buy the group 4 cars and NOW i agree with you, all the vehicles to that point are fine imho but group 4 needs serious work, its like riding on a cushion of air and theres so much grip, one of the stages bar a couple of the tighter turns on greece is practically flat the whole way its crazy.

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hello folks

you can change the grip levels of every car. i changed the subaru to 'low' grip tires and the difference was subtle at 1st, but it make a huge difference once you get down to the nitty gritty

cars>models>(select you car of choice, mine was impreza, so '555') >tuning. inside here we have 3 default tuning setups for each country. open each 1 and change the tire grip value at the bottom from 'med' to 'low'

try it out, i think its much harder now, much looser feel to things without having to drive too slow

MM


Much better !! Great, how cool rides Fiat 131 with this grip and 900 degrees, but I noticed another problem, the grip value on the low speeds like 0-80 km/h is much lower than above them; the only sensible way to improve car feelling is to modify the steepness of the lateral grip to torque curve 

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hello folks

you can change the grip levels of every car. i changed the subaru to 'low' grip tires and the difference was subtle at 1st, but it make a huge difference once you get down to the nitty gritty

cars>models>(select you car of choice, mine was impreza, so '555') >tuning. inside here we have 3 default tuning setups for each country. open each 1 and change the tire grip value at the bottom from 'med' to 'low'

try it out, i think its much harder now, much looser feel to things without having to drive too slow

MM


Much better !! Great, how cool rides Fiat 131 with this grip and 900 degrees, but I noticed another problem, the grip value on the low speeds like 0-80 km/h is much lower than above them; the only sensible way to improve car feelling is to modify the steepness of the lateral grip to torque curve 
could the higher grip be something to do with aerodynamic force above 80km/h? 

and i think more people need to try these tyres ;)

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hello folks

you can change the grip levels of every car. i changed the subaru to 'low' grip tires and the difference was subtle at 1st, but it make a huge difference once you get down to the nitty gritty

cars>models>(select you car of choice, mine was impreza, so '555') >tuning. inside here we have 3 default tuning setups for each country. open each 1 and change the tire grip value at the bottom from 'med' to 'low'

try it out, i think its much harder now, much looser feel to things without having to drive too slow

MM


This is great. Such a big difference! Now it actually is fun to drive! Now is it just me, or is it actually EASIER to drive this way? Maybe because it is more predictible and behaves like a real car?

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hello folks

you can change the grip levels of every car. i changed the subaru to 'low' grip tires and the difference was subtle at 1st, but it make a huge difference once you get down to the nitty gritty

cars>models>(select you car of choice, mine was impreza, so '555') >tuning. inside here we have 3 default tuning setups for each country. open each 1 and change the tire grip value at the bottom from 'med' to 'low'

try it out, i think its much harder now, much looser feel to things without having to drive too slow

MM


it's good, but developer to change physics the way, then it is right.


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Cafours said:
theres a section on boddy moor or wtvr it is called and you a braking from highspeed to a square right and i can assure you
Is that the one where there's a vehicle on the outside of the corner or something, and there's loads of red/white tape up? I always struggle on that one unless I force myself to remember specifically that corner (when I go past the wind turbines now I start thinking "here it comes!")

Left-foot braking works like in real life, try it with a Mini and you'll feel how it gets better traction out of corners with it.

The rear end is quite easy to get out, you're driving too slowly if you want it to come out and it isn't. Have a look at gear ratios as well, I know the Sierra Cosworth RS500 has problems with the stock second gear being out of the power band when changing up into it from 1st and that can cause it to bog down in hairpins and out of them.

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I quote some comments:

"...It is not about the setup. RWD car cannot powerslide as seen in the footage, because engine cannot cope with the grip level. Here You can see the same (too high grip, this time it's AWD)
 https://youtu.be/NsI-OZgArak?t=9m56s 
In real life You'd be done. In DiRT You don't need to brake before the corner...."

"As you can see on this video https://youtu.be/dbfZayu6SQ8?t=1m47s the car is getting understeer while pressing the gas pedal, and then watch this https://youtu.be/-S9xsZ_yOz8?t=22s  ....."

"...
Left foot works well in FWD, but AWD doesn't benefit from it at all..."

".... 
https://youtu.be/5a4X6n4igus?t=29s 
Notice how long it takes him to slow down, AND HE STILL GOES TOO FAST!
EDIT:
I strongly recommend for everyone to watch whole fideo (it's just 7 mins long) as there is also some great gravel footage. Car dances from corner to corner. Not in DiRT...."

"..The amount of grip, especially at low speeds, is way too high. While the physics of the FWD cars like the mini are quite realistic and fun, the RWD and AWD cars aren't really enjoyable. it feels like there's no kind of wheelspin. when you're driving an RS500 you'd be sideways everywhere as soon as the boost kicks in. Simply keeping it straight should be a challenge, especially when driving on ice..." 

and here is the confirmation of this say -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1DmsfPlR8o and questions to you: Is they driving fast, Can you slide like on this video on dirt, even on gravel, no...

If you are still not convinced, find a closed gravel road and try it with you car, yea i know you car doesnt have gravel tyres etc. but feeling is the same, physic working on car is the same, you should notice that the psyhic in this game are not realistic, there is no inertia etc. There is long way to call this game simulator, but its good base to build it ! Keep you work Codemasters !







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Hello, I've just posted this in another topic, but I'll just copy paste it here:

Well, I must admit I am really surprised. It proved that this community is happy with current physics. As I said before- I'm out of here, this is not my type of a rally sim. I am trully happy You guys are having fun. I also hope some of sim guys will look past physics and make some mods for You after they become supported. Take care, SamRWD out!

What I want is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cULSV6LdeFA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LUPCTivqw4
What I got instead is unrealistic game. It is my last post here, so please understand I won't be replying anymore here (I've been quiet active when it comes to this topic, so just in case You expected any comment). I pretty much wrote everything here:
http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/6029/does-the-game-have-too-much-grip/p1
Good luck guys.

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I have not experienced much grip issues at all in this game. Times when I've failed to whip the back around or slide sideways like I wanted were my fault, because on retrying the stage and trying different things you CAN do it.
I also don't think it's fair to post videos of what you're doing next to actual rally drivers in real life. Of course they lose traction better and their driving looks better, they're professionals. Post a video of you driving a rally car in real life using the same style of driving in the game and you might find the simulation is not that much different.

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I think what some people are struggling to understand is that it's not RBR either. 
I definitely get that impression. Like RBR is the most realistic rally and if its not that its not sim. I've watched a few vids of actual rally drivers playing the game who seem to think the physics don't need much work.

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It's getting boring, that every day someone open a thread with similar title "i have too much grip" without knowing how to set up the controller or the car.

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Settings at anything. The RBR settings do not make a lot of Grip.

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mesa said:
It's getting boring, that every day someone open a thread with similar title "i have too much grip" without knowing how to set up the controller or the car.

I agree with mesa.
Do everyone an ace, show your settings first, then a video of your stage.  Show ALL HUDs so we can see where the throttle and brakes comes into play.  I've been doing some lately, and will start showing ALL HUD so y'all can see where I'm easing off the throttle, or how late or early do I brake before a turn or hairpin.

Maybe if we start doing this, Codemasters can collect all these information and pass it own to their Physics department and make the necessary improvements

Deal?

Here's one of my "most ridiculous" Settings, hoping to get a feel on how it improves
http://youtu.be/2J-_LRhnJow

http://youtu.be/GobmczCEy1k

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Nice drive Leadnek, well done!

Lot of people playing with 'just a little assist',  or playing with ABS on low settings and then talking about the grip is too much, the car is slowing down too early, the physics is not as good as in RBR  :)

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mesa said:

Nice drive Leadnek, well done!

Lot of people playing with 'just a little assist',  or playing with ABS on low settings and then talking about the grip is too much, the car is slowing down too early, the physics is not as good as in RBR  :)

Anyone who has driven a real car and has a brain knows a car don't stop as fast as the cars does right now and of course you turn all assist off ! 

It's not by much but it is enough to lose momentum especially when doing a hairpin.

It's simply not that hard in real life.

I have done it lots of time in real life, trust me ;) !
You are going to be disapointed as Kevin Abbrings feedback pointed out that the brakes are not powerful enough. I bet he has done it a few times in his life too?

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bogani said:
You are going to be disapointed as Kevin Abbrings feedback pointed out that the brakes are not powerful enough. I bet he has done it a few times in his life too?
Where did you hear/read that?

EDIT: I've just seen @KickUp tweet. Interesting. I've only briefly played with a WRC car and it felt very good, although underpowered when without upgrades.

I wonder whether they had time to have Kevin play with some other cars.

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