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Too much grip !!

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bogani said:
You are going to be disapointed as Kevin Abbrings feedback pointed out that the brakes are not powerful enough. I bet he has done it a few times in his life too?
Where did you hear/read that?

EDIT: I've just seen @KickUp tweet. Interesting. I've only briefly played with a WRC car and it felt very good, although underpowered when without upgrades.

I wonder whether they had time to have Kevin play with some other cars.
I would think so as he also wants to use dogbox shifts without clutch in h-pattern cars. :)

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. I bet he has done it a few times in his life too?
That's a complete different subject !

You totally missed the point !

You could be driving flat out and downhills in 6th gear on tarmac but as soon as you release the throttle the car will decrease in speed and stop way too fast without even touching either brake or handbrake !

I'm all in for the fact that the brakes are too weak ATM !

I have to say that I have not experienced/seen this issue. Can you let me know which car, stage, weather and what assists settings do you use? Thanks

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bogani said:
mesa said:

Nice drive Leadnek, well done!

Lot of people playing with 'just a little assist',  or playing with ABS on low settings and then talking about the grip is too much, the car is slowing down too early, the physics is not as good as in RBR  :)

Anyone who has driven a real car and has a brain knows a car don't stop as fast as the cars does right now and of course you turn all assist off ! 

It's not by much but it is enough to lose momentum especially when doing a hairpin.

It's simply not that hard in real life.

I have done it lots of time in real life, trust me ;) !
You are going to be disapointed as Kevin Abbrings feedback pointed out that the brakes are not powerful enough. I bet he has done it a few times in his life too?
That's a complete different subject !

You totally missed the point !

You could be driving flat out and downhills on tarmac but as soon as you release the throttle the car will decrease in speed and stop way too fast without even touching either brake or handbrake !


I sure did. I thought you talked about the brakes. Sorry for that.

I do agree with the off throttle deceleration issue but that's on the devs radar according to Coleman. They know what's causing it and how to fix it he said in a tweet.

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SamRWD said:
Hello, I've just posted this in another topic, but I'll just copy paste it here:

Well, I must admit I am really surprised. It proved that this community is happy with current physics. As I said before- I'm out of here, this is not my type of a rally sim. I am trully happy You guys are having fun. I also hope some of sim guys will look past physics and make some mods for You after they become supported. Take care, SamRWD out!

What I want is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cULSV6LdeFA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LUPCTivqw4
What I got instead is unrealistic game. It is my last post here, so please understand I won't be replying anymore here (I've been quiet active when it comes to this topic, so just in case You expected any comment). I pretty much wrote everything here:
http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/6029/does-the-game-have-too-much-grip/p1
Good luck guys.

The game is in Early Access. This isn't a final product. CM is working on a lot of things to make it better. It seems a bit childish to leave because essentially a beta build isn't exactly what you want. You also make is sound like everyone is happy with the physics, which isn't the case. Oh well, enjoy.

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You could be driving flat out and downhills in 6th gear on tarmac but as soon as you release the throttle the car will decrease in speed and stop way too fast without even touching either brake or handbrake !
I have to say that I have not experienced/seen this issue. Can you let me know which car, stage, weather and what assists settings do you use? Thanks
Fiesta, any track on Monte

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You could be driving flat out and downhills in 6th gear on tarmac but as soon as you release the throttle the car will decrease in speed and stop way too fast without even touching either brake or handbrake !
I have to say that I have not experienced/seen this issue. Can you let me know which car, stage, weather and what assists settings do you use? Thanks
Fiesta, any track on Monte
The Audi is the best(worst) example of this. Extreme deceleration off throttle.

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FlakHound said:
SamRWD said:
Hello, I've just posted this in another topic, but I'll just copy paste it here:

Well, I must admit I am really surprised. It proved that this community is happy with current physics. As I said before- I'm out of here, this is not my type of a rally sim. I am trully happy You guys are having fun. I also hope some of sim guys will look past physics and make some mods for You after they become supported. Take care, SamRWD out!

What I want is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cULSV6LdeFA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LUPCTivqw4
What I got instead is unrealistic game. It is my last post here, so please understand I won't be replying anymore here (I've been quiet active when it comes to this topic, so just in case You expected any comment). I pretty much wrote everything here:
http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/6029/does-the-game-have-too-much-grip/p1
Good luck guys.

The game is in Early Access. This isn't a final product. CM is working on a lot of things to make it better. It seems a bit childish to leave because essentially a beta build isn't exactly what you want. You also make is sound like everyone is happy with the physics, which isn't the case. Oh well, enjoy.
Hint. He actually never left. It's an old post ;)

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bogani said:
The Audi is the best(worst) example of this. Extreme deceleration off throttle.
I haven't tried the Audi, only used the Fiesta on Monte for the first time yesterday. Noticed the rapid deceleration after a couple of turns and found I only needed to brake at the hairpins

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People saying cars slow down when off throttle too quickly.


Wonder if they know what a flywheel is and what happens to engine braking when you fit a superlight one??

My REAL CAR has a lightened flywheel, approx 3KG lighter than stock (still relatively heavy though) 

It revs more freely out of gear, and when i lift of the throttle the engine brakes the car a lot more than stock.


Imagine now, a highly tuned rally car with a superlight flywheel, lifting off with mean the engine drag slows the car more effectively.

an extreme example of engine braking is an F1 car, they slow at a rate comparable to a family car using its brakes to full effect.

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Cafours said:
People saying cars slow down when off throttle too quickly.


Wonder if they know what a flywheel is and what happens to engine braking when you fit a superlight one??

My REAL CAR has a lightened flywheel, approx 3KG lighter than stock (still relatively heavy though) 

It revs more freely out of gear, and when i lift of the throttle the engine brakes the car a lot more than stock.


Imagine now, a highly tuned rally car with a superlight flywheel, lifting off with mean the engine drag slows the car more effectively.

an extreme example of engine braking is an F1 car, they slow at a rate comparable to a family car using its brakes to full effect.
You def have a point, but doing a stage in the Audi and only apply brakes for hairpins, that is a bit over the top imo.

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light flywheel or stock,please refer to any other sim,and take note.Yes the Audi is the worse,but momentum and inertia is all wrong in this game.Hope its not too late to fix it.Drive the M3 around on Assetto in the new dirt tracks that are made for it,.............not perfect beacuse you only have street tires,but a lot closer to reality in momentum and car weight modeling.And talk about FFB,you have to fight the car in AC as in real life,but yet so predictable if you are experienced with sims.
I actually do love the BMW in Dirt Rally,but needs all the good stuff fixed to be perfect.

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I've tried it last night and it does appear that the cars are 'draggy' when off throttle and slow down quite quickly without braking.

I guess I haven't noticed it before as usually I'm either on throttle/partial throttle or just brakes.

If the devs are aware of it and agree it's an issue I'm sure they'll make it better :)

A bit off-topic, but I think the Fiesta WRC handling is just brilliant! Power and torque in a state without upgrades are a bit too low, but the way in which it takes corners and digs itself out of really dodgy drifts seemed very authentic to me :D

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FlakHound said:
bogani said:
Hint. He actually never left. It's an old post ;)
Damnit. Guess who looks like a moron now... Haha
I dropped that message after a "grip poll" showed that pretty much everyone here uses steering wheel and thinks the grip is realistic. Shortly after wheel users suddenly realised how the physics is off indeed, and the poll showed an opposite- that a vast majority of Codemasters customers want something more realisic than what we have at the moment. That is why I am still here. On the side note- I would love to be able to see a full username list under each vote option- I suspect another poll "wheel vs gamepad" probably has couple gamepad users who voted "grip is ok, I am using steering wheel" in my poll, but well.

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SamRWD said:
FlakHound said:
bogani said:
Hint. He actually never left. It's an old post ;)
Damnit. Guess who looks like a moron now... Haha
I dropped that message after a "grip poll" showed that pretty much everyone here uses steering wheel and thinks the grip is realistic. Shortly after wheel users suddenly realised how the physics is off indeed, and the poll showed an opposite- that a vast majority of Codemasters customers want something more realisic than what we have at the moment. That is why I am still here. On the side note- I would love to be able to see a full username list under each vote option- I suspect another poll "wheel vs gamepad" probably has couple gamepad users who voted "grip is ok, I am using steering wheel" in my poll, but well.
Ah I see. Even playing on gamepad, you can tell the physics are a bit off in certain aspects. I actually ended up buying a wheel to play the game, ran a few stages (So much more fun with a wheel) and then had to RMA the G27 because it kept disconnecting mid race. Hopefully have a new one by tomorrow.

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FlakHound said:
SamRWD said:
FlakHound said:
bogani said:
Hint. He actually never left. It's an old post ;)
Damnit. Guess who looks like a moron now... Haha
I dropped that message after a "grip poll" showed that pretty much everyone here uses steering wheel and thinks the grip is realistic. Shortly after wheel users suddenly realised how the physics is off indeed, and the poll showed an opposite- that a vast majority of Codemasters customers want something more realisic than what we have at the moment. That is why I am still here. On the side note- I would love to be able to see a full username list under each vote option- I suspect another poll "wheel vs gamepad" probably has couple gamepad users who voted "grip is ok, I am using steering wheel" in my poll, but well.
Ah I see. Even playing on gamepad, you can tell the physics are a bit off in certain aspects. I actually ended up buying a wheel to play the game, ran a few stages (So much more fun with a wheel) and then had to RMA the G27 because it kept disconnecting mid race. Hopefully have a new one by tomorrow.
G27 is a great piece of hardware. I am still running my ol' trusty DFP (works like a charm after all this ears of abuse). Just remember to NOT use any kind of filtering/ saturation etc. 100% linearity is the way to go with wheels- it might seem obvious, but I've came across many people who were new to wheels and were ruining their experience by applying all kind of input filters. Have fun!

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SamRWD said:
FlakHound said:
SamRWD said:
FlakHound said:
bogani said:
Hint. He actually never left. It's an old post ;)
Damnit. Guess who looks like a moron now... Haha
I dropped that message after a "grip poll" showed that pretty much everyone here uses steering wheel and thinks the grip is realistic. Shortly after wheel users suddenly realised how the physics is off indeed, and the poll showed an opposite- that a vast majority of Codemasters customers want something more realisic than what we have at the moment. That is why I am still here. On the side note- I would love to be able to see a full username list under each vote option- I suspect another poll "wheel vs gamepad" probably has couple gamepad users who voted "grip is ok, I am using steering wheel" in my poll, but well.
Ah I see. Even playing on gamepad, you can tell the physics are a bit off in certain aspects. I actually ended up buying a wheel to play the game, ran a few stages (So much more fun with a wheel) and then had to RMA the G27 because it kept disconnecting mid race. Hopefully have a new one by tomorrow.
G27 is a great piece of hardware. I am still running my ol' trusty DFP (works like a charm after all this ears of abuse). Just remember to NOT use any kind of filtering/ saturation etc. 100% linearity is the way to go with wheels- it might seem obvious, but I've came across many people who were new to wheels and were ruining their experience by applying all kind of input filters. Have fun!
Just got the new one, checked all the settings and they're good! Downside? It's doing the same thing now... Starting to regret this purchase.

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FlakHound said:
SamRWD said:
FlakHound said:
SamRWD said:
FlakHound said:
bogani said:
Hint. He actually never left. It's an old post ;)
Damnit. Guess who looks like a moron now... Haha
I dropped that message after a "grip poll" showed that pretty much everyone here uses steering wheel and thinks the grip is realistic. Shortly after wheel users suddenly realised how the physics is off indeed, and the poll showed an opposite- that a vast majority of Codemasters customers want something more realisic than what we have at the moment. That is why I am still here. On the side note- I would love to be able to see a full username list under each vote option- I suspect another poll "wheel vs gamepad" probably has couple gamepad users who voted "grip is ok, I am using steering wheel" in my poll, but well.
Ah I see. Even playing on gamepad, you can tell the physics are a bit off in certain aspects. I actually ended up buying a wheel to play the game, ran a few stages (So much more fun with a wheel) and then had to RMA the G27 because it kept disconnecting mid race. Hopefully have a new one by tomorrow.
G27 is a great piece of hardware. I am still running my ol' trusty DFP (works like a charm after all this ears of abuse). Just remember to NOT use any kind of filtering/ saturation etc. 100% linearity is the way to go with wheels- it might seem obvious, but I've came across many people who were new to wheels and were ruining their experience by applying all kind of input filters. Have fun!
Just got the new one, checked all the settings and they're good! Downside? It's doing the same thing now... Starting to regret this purchase.

Tried different USB ports? I've had problem with 3.0 ports in the past.

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After 50 hrs with game I must say, that I am absolutly excited about level of detail with all small pleasant surprises here and there and allover feel, which is amazing.

I really do hope Codies do know what they are doing and won't mess-up current physics in any drastic way. It would be real shame. 
I think following thoughts were pointed out already but anyway:
  • Default car setups are foolproof which is really great for all new-comers. If you do know what you are doing you can adjust car to your needs and slide and slide and slide...
  • I just love how each car has different personality and single physical engine handles various feels between 60', Group B and 2010's so, so well. Whole variety from 'old jumpy slow but lovely bricks' over 'shaky rockets on the wheels' to 'steady em'I even moving' 2010 cars. Even IRL when you are driving stock car at 80kpm - old shaky 1995 model feels like you must go at least 130kpm and with car bought just yesterday is like 40kpm...
  • I showed game to my friend who is actual rally driver and he got absolutly excited too. I asked him about 'too much of grip' and he just confirmed what I am thinking all the way - Without g-forces pushing to your body you can only guess, but DirtRally allover feeling is just amazingly right and that's what counts.
  • I am pretty sure that all hardcore RBR fans will not be satisfied unless they get RBR with better sound and graphics.

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ZbP said:

  • I showed game to my friend who is actual rally driver and he got absolutly excited too. I asked him about 'too much of grip' and he just confirmed what I am thinking all the way - Without g-forces pushing to your body you can only guess, but DirtRally allover feeling is just amazingly right and that's what counts.
  • I am pretty sure that all hardcore RBR fans will not be satisfied unless they get RBR with better sound and graphics.
Both are false, and were discussed numerous times already. Please read this topic for starters.

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Hi guys,

I've been driving and working on 'translate DIRT feelings into word to discuss here.
First thing'sfirts : The simple fact 'too much grip' appears on list as major subject on codemasters dirt game exists not because of mistake or hazard.
So I've been driving hard, trying to focus on car's physics and reactions and forget about FFB and stuff..

Here are some points I clearly saw and felt, I think we all know them now

- LIFTING THROTTLE SEEMS TO BRAKEs the car on gravel or sometimes, feel sometimes only need to brake in hairpin

- BEHAVIOUR IS SOMEHOW MORE REALISTIC WITH MORE SPEED. Momentum seems more here. Still too much grip in cornering, braking and full gas but as we go faster and faster, the car weight seems to wake up and let us play with mass transfer a bit.

- CARS DO NOT RESPOND TO THROTTLE. You know that real smooth feeling that tells you " throttle is the steering wheel" . On rally cars is should be that intuitive. Cars seems to drift when they are savagely smashed into corner, it LOOKS LIKE SUSUKI ESCUDO GRIP IN GRAND TURISMO, for those who know.....  
A good thing is that  braking gives you front grip and accelerating put weight and the back, but we don't feel it.

- COMING TO HAIRPIN A 200 MPH ...You know what i mean, especially on tarmac. Coming from some slide , straight, and if you brake 20m before hairpin, it's too early , then if you brake 10 m it's too late. I don't mean the speed sensation lacks calibration, no, i just talk about handling. Especially on the brakes. This has to do with pedal and software calibration, i don't know, but it feels the pedal curse is very short, not enough accuracy, it's not even possible to do trail braking .

- LATERAL FORCE SEEMS TO BE DRIFT ACTIVATOR , seems to be the thing that decides if the car is going to slide, then it looks like some NEEDFORSPEED DIFT UNLEASHED MY B...powerslide thing. NO, drifting should be directly linked to our RIGHT FOOT and feels rewarding in RWD and face of death saving in AWD and FWD.
FOOT WORK, is what DIRT  gameplay must need to feel cars behind a pc wheel.

- Now obviously the FFB.. it doesn't help at all to be focused on car's behaviour, i think we all want the wheel to come back countersteering naturaly in slides, shaking ....  but i began to take more pleasure, here's my advice. You should have a manual handbrake, first. 500 degres or so rotation, shake the car in corner entry, give it handbrake, the more you use it often the more it gets immersive and cool to drive...very happy the handbrake work.

Thanks 

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I think dirt 3 physics are better...  If you reduce grip by 10 percent using a mod. 

In fact I've gone back to dirt 3.  Leaving this game for a year.... Need vast improvement across the board. 

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xGabe62x said:
I think dirt 3 physics are better...  If you reduce grip by 10 percent using a mod. 

In fact I've gone back to dirt 3.  Leaving this game for a year.... Need vast improvement across the board. 
DiRT 3 just has better feedback, that's why it feels better to drive

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Exactly, in tarmac surface there are more grip, I do not know how it will work here the values of grip, but would be nice to edit them, in my sections  rally for rfactor and assetto never put a grip 100% always worked with grips of  95-97%, and allowed to slide at a time I had an acceptable but not excessive grip, taking into account the real road grip.

this hillclimb is made by me for assetto, RBR and rFactor, in this , the grip is in 96%

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nP_2ZLE3MY

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