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Fantastic game - some feedback and requests

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18 hours ago, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

"Fantastic game"....but not good enough to pay for?

Odd how people can get something for 'free' and still feel the need to be critical about what they have received.

first off, that's a strange thing to say - just because i'm playing the game on a subscription based service does not mean i can't provide constructive feedback to the devs and see the game improve. 

second, don't worry about who's paid for the game and who hasn't - have a good day now

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On 10/1/2019 at 1:00 PM, Johnnnn said:

It's an interesting question and I opened it on Forza forum without any answers.

What I understand dirt has some grip and with slide you get better grip. That's the reason why sliding is faster because you use the better grip. On the other hand Horizon uses max grip everywhere and if you are too fast you loose a lot of it. Sliding there doesn't make any sense because you have small grip. I can image it could work on some surfaces but I would say Horizon uses tarmac physics for dirt too. Can anybody here help me with it? That's the reason why I love dirt in DR2, because it feels so... dirty 😄

Any thoughts?

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On 9/29/2019 at 10:34 AM, Kjell007 said:

I guess you should read my post again, then you will know whether I use a wheel or not. 😉

Talking about the pivot etc, I really can’t tell since I don’t use chase camera, only the dashboard camera. So all my experience from both DR2.0 and Projec Cars 1 and 2 are from inside of the cars.

So I used to say the same thing at least for R2's, but I didn't notice how much the rear tyres didn't follow the front even in situations where they definitely should have.   You really need to look at a replay to realize in some cars that the rear is drifting around unrealistically.   Still, in the car looking out it feels nifty enough for me in R2.  (I would prefer it to be fixed/improved of course)

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4 hours ago, bn880 said:

So I used to say the same thing at least for R2's, but I didn't notice how much the rear tyres didn't follow the front even in situations where they definitely should have.   You really need to look at a replay to realize in some cars that the rear is drifting around unrealistically.   Still, in the car looking out it feels nifty enough for me in R2.  (I would prefer it to be fixed/improved of course)

This right here! This is what I was getting at. The cars just slide and pivot for no reason even when you're turning gently and consistently, like it wants to slide and throw its bottom out around corners - even when you don't want it to. And that's weird... I'm on tarmac, why is the car still behaving like its on dirt or gravel? 

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6 hours ago, MistahSpeedster said:

This right here! This is what I was getting at. The cars just slide and pivot for no reason even when you're turning gently and consistently, like it wants to slide and throw its bottom out around corners - even when you don't want it to. And that's weird... I'm on tarmac, why is the car still behaving like its on dirt or gravel? 

 

10 hours ago, bn880 said:

So I used to say the same thing at least for R2's, but I didn't notice how much the rear tyres didn't follow the front even in situations where they definitely should have.   You really need to look at a replay to realize in some cars that the rear is drifting around unrealistically.   Still, in the car looking out it feels nifty enough for me in R2.  (I would prefer it to be fixed/improved of course)

I think I actually worked out why this happens... the absence of a Caster tuning option means you have to use fairly extreme Camber tuning on the rear to get proper grip on turn out. Combine that with some rear toe-in and RWD's will straighten out like a train.

It's confusing because it feels a lot like having very stiff rear sway bars, when really it's the rear camber doing it.

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On 10/4/2019 at 6:29 AM, SquirrelEsquire said:

 

I think I actually worked out why this happens... the absence of a Caster tuning option means you have to use fairly extreme Camber tuning on the rear to get proper grip on turn out. Combine that with some rear toe-in and RWD's will straighten out like a train.

It's confusing because it feels a lot like having very stiff rear sway bars, when really it's the rear camber doing it.

I think you nailed it. Thanks for this - will try it out and report back! :)

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On 10/2/2019 at 2:30 AM, MistahSpeedster said:

first off, that's a strange thing to say - just because i'm playing the game on a subscription based service does not mean i can't provide constructive feedback to the devs and see the game improve. 

second, don't worry about who's paid for the game and who hasn't - have a good day now

Well, I am also on the base Game Pass package...but, I ended up buying the cars for a couple bucks and the tracks. Not going to waste time with the game pass, since I missed Season 3. CM is getting money off of the the game, as well as exposure to a larger audience, who may have not played Dirt before..I know I never got into rally as much, am relatively new to driving games in general...got  bored of MMO's and "go kill 10 wolves" for every area you go to, Also got bored of shooters...

 

I will say, coming from a PC gamer only standpoint, a wheel setup is a must..I hate controller based games. I have a G29, which does the job well, but wish I could afford a direct drive rig....well I can afford, but prices get ridiculous....The wheels do a very decent job in feeling the track, once you get them setup properly. 

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On 10/4/2019 at 6:29 AM, SquirrelEsquire said:

 

I think I actually worked out why this happens... the absence of a Caster tuning option means you have to use fairly extreme Camber tuning on the rear to get proper grip on turn out. Combine that with some rear toe-in and RWD's will straighten out like a train.

It's confusing because it feels a lot like having very stiff rear sway bars, when really it's the rear camber doing it.

Okay, so I gave this a go with more aggressive rear negative camber and slight toe-in at the rear as well. I did get better stability on tarmac with more predictable and sharper handling - but I still can't help and feel that the car "pivots and hovers" over tarmac like a hovercraft, rather than turn and lean on its suspension like a car. I've raised the ride height, made shock absorbers and dampers as soft as possible - but it feels like there's almost no suspension movement or damping at work. Racing and rally games from nearly 20 years ago had better suspension and bodyroll physics. 

Am I the only one who thinks the cars seem to have no suspension 'give' or bodyroll? They feel like hovercrafts. Reminds me of the Colin Mcrae physics engine. Is there even a tire model at play here? I'm not knocking on the physics here but why does Codemasters think that cars should behave more like hovercrafts - pivoting and turning without bodyroll - rather than actual cars with four wheels working independently and a suspension with believable "give and movement"?

It reminds me of how Forza was initially on the Xbox 360 - very little bodyroll or suspension movement even with soft springs and dampers, height raised sufficiently. 

It's just not convincing at all, sorry. 

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On 10/6/2019 at 7:25 PM, Yetskii said:

Well, I am also on the base Game Pass package...but, I ended up buying the cars for a couple bucks and the tracks. Not going to waste time with the game pass, since I missed Season 3. CM is getting money off of the the game, as well as exposure to a larger audience, who may have not played Dirt before..I know I never got into rally as much, am relatively new to driving games in general...got  bored of MMO's and "go kill 10 wolves" for every area you go to, Also got bored of shooters...

 

I will say, coming from a PC gamer only standpoint, a wheel setup is a must..I hate controller based games. I have a G29, which does the job well, but wish I could afford a direct drive rig....well I can afford, but prices get ridiculous....The wheels do a very decent job in feeling the track, once you get them setup properly. 

I've been playing on a controller all these years and have zero issues with it because i've trained my mind-muscle to use the analog stick like a wheel - for example, make minor corrections and hold the stick at an angle, rather than flick or tap it. 

I never said I had issues with the controls in the game but rather how the physics 'behave'. I'm not getting any believable sensation of the suspension working, dampers working - it's as if the car is a hovercraft - pivoting, as opposed to 'leaning' on its chassis and changing direction. whether on tarmac or dirt, it never truly feels like the car has a functional suspension. It's just a really weird and unnatural feeling - perhaps the flat camera movement is a contributing factor. I don't have this complaint in other 'realistic racing games' I'm playing: Forza, PCARS, AC, etc.

As a test, do the rallycross tracks in PCARS2 driving an RX car - you'll see lots of suspension movement and 'give' - not just evidenced by camera movement but also the car's chassis leaning and rolling. Why is this absent from Dirt 2.0? It feels like they are still using the Colin McRae Rally model.  

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On 10/19/2019 at 8:07 AM, MistahSpeedster said:

i've trained my mind-muscle to use the analog stick like a wheel

You have learnt to be smooth, you cant learn to use it like a wheel; because it isnt a wheel. I also have an insane amount of dejavu with regards to you, I wonder if you are who I think you are?

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2 hours ago, Ialyrn said:

You have learnt to be smooth, you cant learn to use it like a wheel; because it isnt a wheel. I also have an insane amount of dejavu with regards to you, I wonder if you are who I think you are?

Do you have anything to add to how the physics model works in this game? It is kind of bizarre. 

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Here's an interesting observation:

 

I've noticed the same issue in their latest game, GRID 2019. The cars feel so tame and "level". It's as if they are skiing on a perfectly flat surface. No sensation or feel of the suspension moving or creating "give". An independent reviewer picked up on this as well, I forget the title of the YT video. He went on to say how the original first GRID game was so much livelier, with cars feeling "alive" on the bumps and around corners. 

I think its the suspension modelling in Codemasters' racing games. 

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