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Fantastic game - some feedback and requests

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The game just became available on GP and it is a handful! Great job and props to the CM team.

Now....

Audio

I've always felt that the cars have sounded quiet in the Dirt Rally games. Why is this? My surround amp is set up correctly with the console and dynamic range is high. Ironically, when the replay starts - man - the cars sound proper loud and "oomphy". Can you PLEASE have this same volume level while rallying/driving? Thanks a plenty!

Physics

Feels like the car is still pivoting at the center and floating like a hovercraft rather than all four wheels connected to the road - this is in regards to tarmac driving mostly. I just don't feel like the tires dig in properly - as in, there's no tire flex, no suspension "give". Everything feels stiff and floaty - are you guys still using the base physics model from the Colin McRae days? Please ditch that and make the driving more direct and intuitive. It just doesn't feel convincing, although the overall physics model is rather good. 

Fantastic game all in all, but far from a rally sim. If volume levels and tarmac physics can be tweaked somewhat (with an overall better feeling of suspension 'give' and movement), this game can be even more amazing to play. 

 

Thanks again for a brilliant product!

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On 9/28/2019 at 12:36 PM, MistahSpeedster said:

The game just became available on GP and it is a handful! Great job and props to the CM team.

Now....

Audio

I've always felt that the cars have sounded quiet in the Dirt Rally games. Why is this? My surround amp is set up correctly with the console and dynamic range is high. Ironically, when the replay starts - man - the cars sound proper loud and "oomphy". Can you PLEASE have this same volume level while rallying/driving? Thanks a plenty!

Physics

Feels like the car is still pivoting at the center and floating like a hovercraft rather than all four wheels connected to the road - this is in regards to tarmac driving mostly. I just don't feel like the tires dig in properly - as in, there's no tire flex, no suspension "give". Everything feels stiff and floaty - are you guys usps tracking still using the base physics model from the Colin McRae days? Please ditch that and make the driving more direct and intuitive. It just doesn't feel convincing, although the overall physics model is rather good. 

Fantastic game all in all, but far from a rally sim. If volume levels and tarmac physics can be tweaked somewhat (with an overall better feeling of suspension 'give' and movement), this game can be even more amazing to play. 

 

Thanks again for a brilliant product!

I agree on these point too.

Regards,

Shane

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Even though the feel on tarmac is not optimal, weight transfer is there and the suspension is working. In RX cars you have that typical loss of rear grip under heavy braking. The front end dives, weight transfers to the front and the rear end gets very light. If you turn in too early and add lateral forces you can lose the back end pretty easily, whereas if you release the brake a tiny bit some weight will shift back to the rear and it stabilizes itself. So it's all there, and I can actually see the tyres flex in replays

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I agree on some of the things you guys have metioned - however;

 

@richie The movement looks rather unconvincing, and cars tuned for pure smooth tarmac driving just feel and look floaty and pivot strangely at the center - reminds me of NFS Shift and CM's older Colin McRae rally games. It's just not a convincing feeling, feels/looks floaty, can't describe it better. Tarmac driving in other games like PCARS2, AC, Forza, GTS, iRacing etc. feels much more convincing. I think part of it has to do with the camera movement as well - I just don't see the camera leaning and moving to indicate that the suspension is working (tarmac or not).

@SquirrelEsquire I think they should be able to give us the same in-game car volume level as replay car volume through an update, correct? How often do the Codies guys visit these forums? 

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2 hours ago, MistahSpeedster said:

Tarmac driving in other games like PCARS2, AC, Forza, GTS, iRacing etc. feels much more convincing. I think part of it has to do with the camera movement as well - I just don't see the camera leaning and moving to indicate that the suspension is working (tarmac or not).

I’ve seen some criticising the taramac handling in DR2.0, but in my opinion it is the best handling there is as of now. I don’t think it is right to compare this game with titles that are simulating circut racing, simply because a racing car is a different beast than a rally car. A rally car is setup for ordinary roads, which can often be quite narrow and twitchy, unlike a racing circuit which is wide and made for speed.

Project Cars 2 on the other hand, is a very good racing simulator, but quite wonky when it comes to RX. The same goes for Gran Turismo Sport, where driving on dirt just is an extremely bad experience. These are my opinion from a «rally purist» point of view, playing my games on the PS4 with the stock DS4 and with all driving assists set to off. Driving with a steeringwheel might be another experience, but as I said the taramac handling in the rally discipline in DR2.0 is the best there is right now in the rally genre. 😊👍🏻

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I don't like Spain too much but Germany is great experience for me. Controller player too.

And Monte Carlo is great too because you don't drive too fast.

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2 hours ago, Kjell007 said:

I’ve seen some criticising the taramac handling in DR2.0, but in my opinion it is the best handling there is as of now. I don’t think it is right to compare this game with titles that are simulating circut racing, simply because a racing car is a different beast than a rally car. A rally car is setup for ordinary roads, which can often be quite narrow and twitchy, unlike a racing circuit which is wide and made for speed.

Project Cars 2 on the other hand, is a very good racing simulator, but quite wonky when it comes to RX. The same goes for Gran Turismo Sport, where driving on dirt just is an extremely bad experience. These are my opinion from a «rally purist» point of view, playing my games on the PS4 with the stock DS4 and with all driving assists set to off. Driving with a steeringwheel might be another experience, but as I said the taramac handling in the rally discipline in DR2.0 is the best there is right now in the rally genre. 😊👍🏻

 

Right, so I don't understand this logic. Both games are simulating tarmac physics, so how are they different? Are you playing on a wheel? 

They physics just seem odd - I've had a few cheap thrills myself in real life on tight and windy mountain roads - I've never felt my car pivoting at the center, all the while with little to no suspension 'give'. I've owned and driven modified Skylines, Supras, Evos, etc. and recently had a change to try out a friend's Aventador. Nope, none of them float around or "pivot" while turning the way cars do in DR 2.0.

I get the feeling they translated the gravel/dirt physics directly to tarmac and turned the grip up by a few notches. Would have been better if they had a dedicated model for tarmac driving. 

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2 hours ago, Johnnnn said:

I don't like Spain too much but Germany is great experience for me. Controller player too.

And Monte Carlo is great too because you don't drive too fast.

The cars suddenly veer off to the left/right as if they are about to go off track. I'm very smooth with the controller and have been playing racing games, including all their Dirt and Dirt Rally games on a pad for decades. I've also tried a variety of sensitivity and linearity settings, but can't get that precise control where I feel the suspension and tires digging into the tarmac to give me proper control. 

 

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20 minutes ago, MistahSpeedster said:

 

Right, so I don't understand this logic. Both games are simulating tarmac physics, so how are they different? Are you playing on a wheel? 

They physics just seem odd - I've had a few cheap thrills myself in real life on tight and windy mountain roads - I've never felt my car pivoting at the center, all the while with little to no suspension 'give'. I've owned and driven modified Skylines, Supras, Evos, etc. and recently had a change to try out a friend's Aventador. Nope, none of them float around or "pivot" while turning the way cars do in DR 2.0.

I get the feeling they translated the gravel/dirt physics directly to tarmac and turned the grip up by a few notches. Would have been better if they had a dedicated model for tarmac driving. 

I guess you should read my post again, then you will know whether I use a wheel or not. 😉

Talking about the pivot etc, I really can’t tell since I don’t use chase camera, only the dashboard camera. So all my experience from both DR2.0 and Projec Cars 1 and 2 are from inside of the cars.

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54 minutes ago, MistahSpeedster said:

The cars suddenly veer off to the left/right as if they are about to go off track. I'm very smooth with the controller and have been playing racing games, including all their Dirt and Dirt Rally games on a pad for decades. I've also tried a variety of sensitivity and linearity settings, but can't get that precise control where I feel the suspension and tires digging into the tarmac to give me proper control. 

 

No amount of hardware config will correct the phenomenon.

Known issue you are reporting, discussed at length in various other threads.

It sucks, yes. 

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1 hour ago, MistahSpeedster said:

The cars suddenly veer off to the left/right as if they are about to go off track. I'm very smooth with the controller and have been playing racing games, including all their Dirt and Dirt Rally games on a pad for decades. I've also tried a variety of sensitivity and linearity settings, but can't get that precise control where I feel the suspension and tires digging into the tarmac to give me proper control. 

 

Wow, I don't know because I started to play on controller one year ago. I have max sensitivity, because of fast reactions and linearity 40. What I saw DR 2 has speed sensitivity helper only. I don't like Spain because I can't be precise there too. But in Germany it's much better and MC is too slow for proper testing but I love MC.

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4 hours ago, Johnnnn said:

Wow, I don't know because I started to play on controller one year ago. I have max sensitivity, because of fast reactions and linearity 40. What I saw DR 2 has speed sensitivity helper only. I don't like Spain because I can't be precise there too. But in Germany it's much better and MC is too slow for proper testing but I love MC.

I can’t say I have experienced the veering off left/right on any of the asphalt rallies, though of course if I destabilize the car it will eventually end up in the woods. I drove the german rally right now in the Monthly challenge with the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X in the NR4/R4-class using the cockpit view (the one with the wheel showing), soft tyre compound, no other changes in the setup of the car, all driving aids set to «Off», and everything else set to stock. I tried pushing as hard as I could, and I had a really good time. The car behaves extremely well, imho, and no unpleasant surprises. The same goes for Spain using the very same car. The only problem in Spain is that sometimes I push too hard, which causing veering off the track and into a rock, the trees or off a cliff. But that is as expected when pushing the top speed. I wish there will be another asphalt rally after season 4 is over, something with narrow windy roads like in Monte Carlo.

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The same setup here, no assists and stock car. Exactly, I was amazed by Germany in current monthly challenge. It felt sooo good. Monaco was first, right? It was good too. Spain is too fast and too different from other games and I don't know. But if anybody sees car from behind it's possible it feels strange. On the controller I am currently happy too but I am rather new to the game.

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1 hour ago, Johnnnn said:

The same setup here, no assists and stock car. Exactly, I was amazed by Germany in current monthly challenge. It felt sooo good. Monaco was first, right? It was good too. Spain is too fast and too different from other games and I don't know. But if anybody sees car from behind it's possible it feels strange. On the controller I am currently happy too but I am rather new to the game.

Yep, Monte Carlo first. Just finished Greece. That Mitsubishi is one heck of a great car! 👍🏻

If you’re new to the game, I would give Spain another shot. I used one of the short stages in spain to win the trophy for coming 1st 10 times with no assists where you have to drive the car with manual gears. After doing that stage a couple of dozen times, it was the key to learn how the car (I used the same Mitsubishi) behave on asphalt.

I promise you that if you feel good in Germany, you will find the groove in Spain as well. Just give it some time, and of course be a little careful with sixth gear. 😎

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19 hours ago, MistahSpeedster said:

I think they should be able to give us the same in-game car volume level as replay car volume through an update, correct? How often do the Codies guys visit these forums?

If it's just some sort of EQ filter being used to muffle the in-cabin sound, then it may be possible? (PCars2 sort of does that when you have the helmet setting enabled).

 

If the game was called TaRMaC Rally 2.0 I could understand the disproportionate focus people tend to have on the asphalt handling.

Likes: Fairly punishing if you try to get away with gear shifting mid-corner without rev matching. Also fairly punishing when it comes to preventing other torque pre-load dif related spinouts if you're prone to lifting off the gas rapidly.

Dislikes: Tricky to tell if asphalt is dry or icey. Snow patches on otherwise dry asphalt are like slipping on a banana. (Are they supposed to be ice? or was Mr Plow just lazy and missed a spot?)

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The problems with the tarmac physics are quite apparent on gravel as well. It's just masked by the sliding around.

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13 hours ago, SquirrelEsquire said:

Dislikes: Tricky to tell if asphalt is dry or icey. Snow patches on otherwise dry asphalt are like slipping on a banana. (Are they supposed to be ice? or was Mr Plow just lazy and missed a spot?)

Yes, I completely agree with this. I’ve pointed this out myself several times. The snow/ice handling in this game could definately be better.

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7 hours ago, Gregow said:

The problems with the tarmac physics are quite apparent on gravel as well. It's just masked by the sliding around.

Some says there is too much sliding, and some says it is too twichy. My opinion the game should have more grip on loose surfaces.

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3 minutes ago, Kjell007 said:

Some says there is too much sliding, and some says it is too twichy. My opinion the game should have more grip on loose surfaces.

I'd say both are depending on what the heck you're doing with the car. Like, if you enter a corner and quickly turn the wheels 90 degrees, you should not be able to go fast. You can use the understeer to your advantage, and that should never be an advantage in a rally car (was it Colin McRae who called it a sin?).

Sometimes the wheels should get more traction under braking or acceleration. Like, you should be able to dig in the rear wheels in a rwd car by stepping on it. 

AWD cars feel the most natural but you can't really load the corners. There's no bite there at all.

The sliding itself is pretty nice, mostly. It feels like there's real depth to the surface, but there's a lot of dynamics missing.

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22 hours ago, Kjell007 said:

Yep, Monte Carlo first. Just finished Greece. That Mitsubishi is one heck of a great car! 👍🏻

If you’re new to the game, I would give Spain another shot. I used one of the short stages in spain to win the trophy for coming 1st 10 times with no assists where you have to drive the car with manual gears. After doing that stage a couple of dozen times, it was the key to learn how the car (I used the same Mitsubishi) behave on asphalt.

I promise you that if you feel good in Germany, you will find the groove in Spain as well. Just give it some time, and of course be a little careful with sixth gear. 😎

I think the whole class is great because I used Subaru and it was so smooth.

Sure, I will try Spain again and maybe with the great car it could be better.

Overall I am happy with the physics. Currently I play Horizon 4 too and dirt there is like tarmac and I love dirt here. Tarmac is not bad at all but it could be maybe a bit different. And if my rear moves before my front? It's not possible to see it so I don't care too much either.

My biggest advantage is I had DR1 but didn't play it so currently I have a game with 12 environments and 50+ awesome cars. Hard to not love this game 😄

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5 hours ago, Kjell007 said:

Some says there is too much sliding, and some says it is too twichy. My opinion the game should have more grip on loose surfaces.

Maybe it's a lack of specifics, I never play Rally Cross so perhaps have a skewed view of things compared to someone who primarily RX's.

@Johnnnn

FH4 player here too. The way I throw my Bugatti Chiron across the Scottish countryside isn't all that different to dirt rally 😂

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11 hours ago, SquirrelEsquire said:

 

@Johnnnn

FH4 player here too. The way I throw my Bugatti Chiron across the Scottish countryside isn't all that different to dirt rally 😂

It's an interesting question and I opened it on Forza forum without any answers.

What I understand dirt has some grip and with slide you get better grip. That's the reason why sliding is faster because you use the better grip. On the other hand Horizon uses max grip everywhere and if you are too fast you loose a lot of it. Sliding there doesn't make any sense because you have small grip. I can image it could work on some surfaces but I would say Horizon uses tarmac physics for dirt too. Can anybody here help me with it? That's the reason why I love dirt in DR2, because it feels so... dirty 😄

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On 9/28/2019 at 8:06 AM, MistahSpeedster said:

The game just became available on GP and it is a handful! Great job and props to the CM team.

Now....

Audio

I've always felt that the cars have sounded quiet in the Dirt Rally games. Why is this? My surround amp is set up correctly with the console and dynamic range is high. Ironically, when the replay starts - man - the cars sound proper loud and "oomphy". Can you PLEASE have this same volume level while rallying/driving? Thanks a plenty!

Physics

Feels like the car is still pivoting at the center and floating like a hovercraft rather than all four wheels connected to the road - this is in regards to tarmac driving mostly. I just don't feel like the tires dig in properly - as in, there's no tire flex, no suspension "give". Everything feels stiff and floaty - are you guys still using the base physics model from the Colin McRae days? Please ditch that and make the driving more direct and intuitive. It just doesn't feel convincing, although the overall physics model is rather good. 

Fantastic game all in all, but far from a rally sim. If volume levels and tarmac physics can be tweaked somewhat (with an overall better feeling of suspension 'give' and movement), this game can be even more amazing to play. 

 

Thanks again for a brilliant product!

"Fantastic game"....but not good enough to pay for?

Odd how people can get something for 'free' and still feel the need to be critical about what they have received.

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