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[GRID 2019] Graphics Discussion - Why exactly it looks #LikeNoOther

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43 minutes ago, django|UKMD said:

We need CM to tell us where they are going from here, let's not rip each other apart here while we wait.

Well, "the team" was going to look into it, but @jesped only posted screenshots without following the very important template, so unfortunately, they are unable to reproduce. ūüėā

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Im guessing after March this game will be dead weight. 

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Just now, CMTGK said:

Here's a thread addressing some of the visual/graphical issues that are being discussed.

 

Whilst this thread is locked, please feel free to continue a reasonable discussion of the game here. 

@Leo Natan Your reply to this post was not reasonable, hence why I have hidden it.

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I see the screenshots showing the beauty of Grid, we dont race in replay and those cams though. 

In terms of managing expectations we have learned the hard way, played Autosport for 6 years as a group, we tried to dip into asseta and pc2 but kept coming back because of the ease of GAS multiplayer and controller racing.  There was great excitement when 2019 was announced and we hoped for a worthy successor of Autosport, everything good about Autosport but with new features like sector/lap timings, multiplayer replay, weather, pitstops, new tracks and in reality upon release we barely got multiplayer and that hurt!

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Posted (edited)

Hi guys, first post here. Just got the game this weekend and while it's definitely fun (yes, I know, we all wanted more) I too noticed the low detail of important buildings in the maps.

 

@CMTGK - I strongly disagree with what's stated in that thread. The objects from the maps that suffer the worst from poor details and textures aren't small assets which can be sacrificed for better performance. They're the monuments which can be seen afar and which pretty much give the map names. Cathedral Run, Venetian Towers, Arc de Triomphe - all suffer from poor details.

This is very noticeable and since we're talking about such important landmarks this cannot be ignored.

As further proof that something's wrong I modified my - hardware_settings_config.xml file from Documents/My Games/GRID (2019) and changed:

<lod_quality lodBias="0.0" crowdLodBias="0.00" />

Setting these to 0 pretty much disables LODs and fixes many issues with LODs already reported here, like the low poly antenna dish or water tower, but doesn't at all touch these monuments. It also doesn't tank performance that much. I would recommend it to anyone who can afford the performance hit.

If you need even more proof checkout the screenshot that I just posted from Barcelona - Venetian Towers, taken with everything maxed out + the above modification done. Enlarge it and you can clearly see that they're multiple LODs present there and the end result is bad. The ground, car, crowd and even the red tent and trees details are much higher that the larger buildings. This is clearly an issue and cannot be considered a performance compromise.

I sincerely doubt that that monument if properly rendered at detail would affect performance that much. But it would make a big visual impact.

So please do contact the Dev team and let them know that they cannot leave these monuments unfixed.

Barcelona, Paris, San Francisco  - these city maps are the most affected. Kindly have the team investigate.

 

On a more general note I think that for the PC at least these changes would be most needed:

- Have an 'Ultra High' setting for the LOD Quality setting so that the hack above isn't needed to get good LODs;

- Have 'Ultra High' for shadows make then render further away;

- Give us an option to remove the chromatic aberration effect which so far cannot be found anywhere (not even in the .xml)

Thanks.

 

Detail issue.jpg

Edited by XenoRad
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2 hours ago, django|UKMD said:

There should be more options to tweak graphics settings on PC.

 

same on the other platforms. there are some config files and could be connected as graphic setting menu with optimal default.

ofcourse, it's easier not to do it. you can always write that the whole environment while driving is blurred so why focus on details or settings.

it is amazing that support is based on extracting the answers in a new closed thread.

I'm slowly beginning to understand why such critical opinions about new CM products.

I came by to say goodbye because I don't see the point to throw anything here.

thanks & bye

 

 

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Posted (edited)

@CMTGK

Quote

As with any game, there is a finite amount of resource when it comes to visuals. With GRID 2019, the decision was made with the resource budget to give more graphical fidelity to those deemed most important - things closer to the camera based on your perspectives such as your car, rival cars, and on-track textures. If more resource was given to those things further away, this could impact the performance of the game - it's as simple as that.

6 years passed since GRID2 had been released. GTX 780 was replaced by RTX 2080 (4 times higher fps https://www.gpucheck.com/compare/nvidia-geforce-gtx-780-vs-nvidia-geforce-rtx-2080-ti/intel-core-i7-3770k-3-50ghz-vs-intel-core-i7-8700k-3-70ghz/), Haswell CPU was replaced by Coffe Lake CPU (+50 fps performance even with older 8th generation https://www.techspot.com/review/1526-intel-4th-gen-core-i7-vs-8th-gen/)...

And GRID2019 can't render textures beyond 3 meters???
Does your "resource budget" still remain at 2013 level if you had to decrease LOD so much???
Maybe you shouldn't build so intense visuals around the car but make overall picture more solid???

Because this is absolutely shameful to see such horrible backgrounds in 2019

GRID_3.jpg


What's the point at all if I can buy 6yo game and get better visuals???
---

Edited by lastbreath
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, CMTGK said:

Whilst this thread is locked, please feel free to continue a reasonable discussion of the game here. 

@Leo Natan Your reply to this post was not reasonable, hence why I have hidden it.

The trees in Australia aren't "whizzing past at 180+ mph". The low lighting draw distances aren't "whizzing past at 180+ mph"...They are present and in full view on the near horizon - all of the time.

And how comes Havana, a location rich in features and detail is an absolute mile away from Sydney (a track that is essentially a field with a scattering of 'trees') in terms of visual quality?

Edited by _BorisTheFrog_

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1 hour ago, XenoRad said:

<lod_quality lodBias="0.0" crowdLodBias="0.00" />
 

dammit, i was making that number higher!

 

20200302190831_1.thumb.jpg.de12297288480924b7a81977b82a3cf2.jpg

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11 minutes ago, GavinMac said:

dammit, i was making that number higher!

MAKE IT -1 !!! :classic_laugh:

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23 minutes ago, lastbreath said:

MAKE IT -1 !!! :classic_laugh:

-1 doesn't work. I tried it as a way to force a kind of "super LOD" but no dice.


Setting it to 0 affects the LOD on the track-side details, buildings and crowds (for the respective crowd setting), but doesn't affect the monuments, nor the draw distance of shadows and ground cover like grass. Also doesn't affect the draw distance of traffic cones on tracks which do pop in visibly.

Actually, I think the monuments are just bugged and don't respond to LODs at all. In my picture for instance after the barriers there are at least 3 different LOD settings and aren't related to the distance from the camera at all. The closer walls with towers are worst, the farther main building is better in detail and there's a small portion of stairs to the right of the center colums which has the most detail.

For the shadows I tried increasing the size in the same xml, but it doesn't make a difference in any way over max. It doesn't increase the distance, nor the quality.

Also for the shadows, I noticed that the quality varies even for your own car. The part closer to the camera is sharper, while the part further away is fuzzier, with no relation to the sun position.

Check the picture. The shadow above the red line is fuzzier, though in reality it should be more defined since it's cast from the hood and front of the car which are closer to the ground, that the roof and tail, which cast a clearer shadow below the line. And this is just for your car, which should always be rendered at utmost detail level, according to the locked thread mentioned earlier.

 

Shadow.png

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1 hour ago, XenoRad said:

Actually, I think the monuments are just bugged and don't respond to LODs at all. In my picture for instance after the barriers there are at least 3 different LOD settings and aren't related to the distance from the camera at all. The closer walls with towers are worst, the farther main building is better in detail

Seems legit

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The problem why it doesn't affect certain things, is because you're modifying a config files that doesn't modify the objects' LOD.

hardwaresettings_config is just a file to customize the graphical settings a bit, but they're not really meant for properly modifying the game (hence why LOD changes in that file tend to break loads of things)

You may be able to find a lead from some of the other files the game may include ūüėȬ†

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, UP100 said:

The problem why it doesn't affect certain things, is because you're modifying a config files that doesn't modify the objects' LOD.

hardwaresettings_config is just a file to customize the graphical settings a bit, but they're not really meant for properly modifying the game (hence why LOD changes in that file tend to break loads of things)

You may be able to find a lead from some of the other files the game may include ūüėȬ†

We wouldn't have to modify such files if we got more options to customize visuals in the game itself and if there weren't such issues with the LODs in the first place. And as far as I could see that modification doesn't break anything it just doesn't fix everything and there is an acceptable performance loss.

All of these discussions of which files to modify and how are just a workaround to the fact that the issue isn't being properly addressed officially. Ultimately, that's what we're asking for - that we get an official acknowledgement that the way the monuments look isn't right and that a fix will be implemented.

Nobody who takes a good honest look at some of the screenshots already posted in this thread can claim that it looks right or that it's an acceptable concession to performance. At the very least the highest available visual options in the UI should mitigate this. We're not asking that LODs be removed entirely, even for the highest option. But we'd like to be given the choice to improve visuals as much as we can for a performance hit which we can deem acceptable. I think it's a fair request.

Edited by XenoRad
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If you think about Crysis, you had the graphics settings that they thought you should play it on Low/Med/High but they also allowed you to max everything out leading to the saying 'but can it run crysis?'

You can build games that run on my old GTX970 but that doesn't mean you forget those who have a RTX2080, we will tweak the settings to best suit our rig and preference!

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Crysis was a special case with the config files. Not only could the DirectX 10 requirement for the highest settings be bypassed, but many options could be customized fixing also some distant LOD settings.

Anyway, Crysis still looks good and with both the config files as well as the in-game console the graphics could be tweaked to the user's desire.

That is an extreme case, but otherwise the point is that more options increase the lifespan of a game.

As a gamer the LOD switching is one of the most noticeable aspects in graphics when not done right. Even in Project Cars 2 there's some small issues and even on highest quality level the AI cars only have full details a few meters away from the camera. The option to customize it beyond an artificial limitation would definitely alleviate such problems and as time passes and hardware improves, would even become something with pretty much 0 performance impact but with a great visual impact.

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Posted (edited)

I don't know what limitations are you talking about. All I know 6 years ago there were GRID2 and GRID Autosport with amazing visuals and distant LOD. After all these years technologies made a huge step ahead and they say it's impossible to create even 2013 level backgrounds? This is BS. I expected LOD would be 2 times longer, not 2 times shorter!!! What was improved in the game? Lighting, cars, crowd and weather. And you want to say 6-years gap in technologies wasn't enough for that??? They didn't add 2 times bigger locations, they didn't double amount of cars on the track, they didn't even apply real-time reflections on the road. SO WHAT THE HELL ATE ALL RESOURCES???

Frankly speaking, as a customer I even don't need any explanation. The game from 2013 has more consistent visuals. This is what I see as a customer. Period.

Edited by lastbreath
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, lastbreath said:

I don't know what limitations are you talking about. All I know 6 years ago there were GRID2 and GRID Autosport with amazing visuals and distant LOD. After all these years technologies made a huge step ahead and they say it's impossible to create even 2013 level backgrounds? This is BS. I expected LOD would be 2 times longer, not 2 times shorter!!! What was improved in the game? Lighting, cars, crowd and weather. And you want to say 6-years gap in technologies wasn't enough for that??? They didn't add 2 times bigger locations, they didn't double amount of cars on the track, they didn't even apply real-time reflections on the road. SO WHAT THE HELL ATE ALL RESOURCES???ÔĽŅÔĽŅÔĽŅ

Frankly speaking, as a customer I even don't need any explanation. The game from 2013 has more consistent visuals. This is what I see as a customer. Period.

GRID (2019) was designed with the lowest common denominator in mind. Imagine if the PC version was making console look even worse than it is already ūüėĄ

But please, pretty please, give us a shadow draw distance option - if there is such a thing.

Edited by django|UKMD
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, django|UKMD said:

GRID (2019) was designed with the lowest common denominator in mind

Codemasters racing games always had top notch visuals. But since 2014 all I see is total degradation in graphics in every title. Till DiRT3 and GAS there was rising in visuals. After that - continuous downhill run.

Edited by lastbreath
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Posted (edited)

I've created a new thread under Technical Assistance for the LOD problem:

I believe the screenshots there should be all that's needed to acknowledge this issue, but of course others can come in with their examples. The point is that something needs to be done about this.

I also created another thread for the shadow render distance and quality.
 

You guys can feel free to add your own high-res examples there.

Edited by XenoRad
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