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[GRID 2019] Graphics Discussion - Why exactly it looks #LikeNoOther


jesped

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let's give the new game maintainer a chance, a lot has already been written and shown here.

@ChrisGrovesMCM left us yesterday but declared that changing guardian means community feedback on sugestions about GRID 👈

so lets see how it works 🤝 @CMTGK Houston do you hear me? 😀

the main issue is poor ambient graphic as for game of breake 2019/2020 and we found 🧐 that textures are so much better in Grid AS from 2014 😵

it seems that this could be easily improved and we all wish and pray for it 🙏

the same is about those trees which simply require remodeling of a few 💩 basic units 👺

this game could sell better and set standards in raceing if the TEAM 👯‍♀️ gathered strength and improve those elements that so strongly spoil the good experience of playing GRID 👈

 

 

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On 2/20/2020 at 5:32 PM, lastbreath said:

Are there any news from modders? It's vital to increase LOD in this gaem

There is not much that can be done with this. Codemasters made sure mods will not be interfering with their DLC and obsolescence plans.

This game is a total pile, and not only in the visual aspect. There's no saving it changing some textures or even models here and there. There isn't a proper foundation underneath all that for any effort to make any kind of sense.

The best thing Codemasters could do at this point is the same they did releasing GRID Autosport as a "sorry, we know we fuqed up" after the general disappointment with Grid 2. It took them 1 year to release GRID Autosport after Grid 2. But hey, if they ever do, they'll be taking another $60 from you...    I'm not going to buy any more Codemasters games, ever, before release. If I ever do, it's gonna be after a lot of serious reviews, not some paid youtubers promos with early access and free preview codes.

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1 hour ago, jesped said:

The best thing Codemasters could do at this point is the same they did releasing GRID Autosport as a "sorry, we know we fuqed up"

 

I wish they would wake up and notice what ***** game design decisions they have made and what a half game and bugfest they have released... The responsible people should get fired asap..! 

And on top of that and kinda funny but they made sure to implement the ***** things from Grid AS: Reverse Race tracks

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10 hours ago, jesped said:

There is not much that can be done with this. Codemasters made sure mods will not be interfering with their DLC and obsolescence plans.

As far as I know the game does no checks for any game modifications, so you're incorrect. No one just cares about modding the game as I believe Ryder is the only person to even release "a tool for it".

I've modified the game myself for example...

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@jesped

We have no evidence of the people promoting this game on YouTube being paid. If there were, they would (legally) have to disclose that they are being paid to sponsor the game. And most developers (Like 343 Industries with their Outpost Discovery, and Activision with their Call of Duty series) encourage others to have a free mind about the game, rather than be 100% good about it. Promotion about games will always happen with ANY game in early access, so while I do not support getting the game without info, I do think boycotting all Codemasters games before release would be a bit harsh and unnecessary, There will always be great Codemasters games in the past, Like Grid 2 and F1 2017 and Dirt Rally 2.0 (even without DLC).

Understand that it is MY opinion, and that there will be some of you who get triggered by this set of comments.

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20 hours ago, UP100 said:

As far as I know the game does no checks for any game modifications, so you're incorrect. No one just cares about modding the game as I believe Ryder is the only person to even release "a tool for it".

I've modified the game myself for example...

I didn't say the game checks for modifications, so you are the incorrect one. Codemasters have been closing their games to modding since Dirt3 or so. Now in GRID 2019 you can't even change LOD and Shadows distances in the .ini files. 

What have you modified in the game?  some car/tire skin?

There are 8 mods in total for GRID 2019 in RaceDepartment. All of them are tire skins. https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/categories/grid-2019-video-game.190/

For GRID Autosport there are 223 mods, modding lighting, cameras, quality settings, ...    https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/categories/grid-autosport.42/

 

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9 hours ago, CordedQuill42 said:

@jesped

We have no evidence of the people promoting this game on YouTube being paid. If there were, they would (legally) have to disclose that they are being paid to sponsor the game. And most developers (Like 343 Industries with their Outpost Discovery, and Activision with their Call of Duty series) encourage others to have a free mind about the game, rather than be 100% good about it. Promotion about games will always happen with ANY game in early access, so while I do not support getting the game without info, I do think boycotting all Codemasters games before release would be a bit harsh and unnecessary, There will always be great Codemasters games in the past, Like Grid 2 and F1 2017 and Dirt Rally 2.0 (even without DLC).

Understand that it is MY opinion, and that there will be some of you who get triggered by this set of comments.

They were flown over to special events, given early copies, ...   NOT A SINGLE ONE said just even ONE bad thing about the game or warn about any problem. NOT A SINGLE ONE. It was all amazing and incredibly great...   until it got released and the real buyers that paid $60 for it realized it was full of bugs, short on content, lacked modes, multiplayer was a disaster, ...

So yeah...   you know now how trustworthy all those youtubers are.

Preordering is CANCER for the videogame industry. It's throwing away your money at Companies that will make worse games because of it.

https://kotaku.com/stop-preordering-video-games-5909105

https://www.wired.com/2016/08/stop-preordering-games/

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/stop-pre-ordering-video-games/

https://www.cnet.com/news/you-should-never-ever-preorder-a-video-game/

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4 hours ago, jesped said:

I didn't say the game checks for modifications, so you are the incorrect one. Codemasters have been closing their games to modding since Dirt3 or so. Now in GRID 2019 you can't even change LOD and Shadows distances in the .ini files. 

What have you modified in the game?  some car/tire skin?

There are 8 mods in total for GRID 2019 in RaceDepartment. All of them are tire skins. https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/categories/grid-2019-video-game.190/

For GRID Autosport there are 223 mods, modding lighting, cameras, quality settings, ...    https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/categories/grid-autosport.42/

 

They aren't really closing down the game, just changing their filesystems etc. that is usually done to lower filesizes etc. What has actually happened is that most "actual" modders quit around that time. 

GAS is an "Old EGO" game, and more tools were developed for "Old EGO". Now that we only have Ryder and so, there arent that many new tools at all.

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3 hours ago, lastbreath said:

The problem is the game doesn't involve NEW software and content makers.

 

It doesn't have to - and screenshots of previous games (on last gen consoles) kind of emphasise that point. Plus, if you look at DR1 and Dirt 4 it does show that providing something is created within the capabilities of the game engine (which I assume is similar to the one in Grid) then something with more than acceptable visuals for a videogame can still be developed. 

This issue isn't unique to Grid and anyone who has access to content migrated from DR1 to DR2 can immediately see those all too familiar poor distance details, less onscreen assets and low lighting draw distances in the newer game - to the point where the near horizon in Finland has to be fogged to hide these technical problems. 

Whatever they have added since Dirt 4 (I lean towards the overdone lighting effects) suggests they now have a inherent problem and with future racing games doubtless planned I just hope Codemasters have the common sense to either backtrack or use the recently acquired tech from SMS to get things back on track.

If not then as Dan Greenawalt once suggested when speaking about changes implemented in FMS7; "if you don't like it then there are other similar games out there". People (myself included) did go elsewhere and by a miraculous coincidence changed things back to the 'Forza way of doing things', so a little food for thought, Codemasters. Through greater choice of games most have moved on from being dumb gamers who buy any old overpriced shovelware.

 

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6 hours ago, UP100 said:

They aren't really closing down the game, just changing their filesystems etc. that is usually done to lower filesizes etc. What has actually happened is that most "actual" modders quit around that time. 

GAS is an "Old EGO" game, and more tools were developed for "Old EGO". Now that we only have Ryder and so, there arent that many new tools at all.

Had to have a giggle UP100, you are right, usually these changes are done to lower files sizes and for new engines but this is where codemasters is right now...

Grid Autosport... 15GB

Grid 2019... 73GB

Considering how many more tracks and cars GAS has and the better quality graphics... I am going to need a bigger hard drive if we get more content... 73GB is GTAV territory!

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1 hour ago, GavinMac said:

Had to have a giggle UP100, you are right, usually these changes are done to lower files sizes and for new engines but this is where codemasters is right now...

Grid Autosport... 15GB

Grid 2019... 73GB

Considering how many more tracks and cars GAS has and the better quality graphics... I am going to need a bigger hard drive if we get more content... 73GB is GTAV territory!

Having higher filesize doesnt mean the changes werent made to increase performance, lower filesize of the files etc. 🙂

Older EGO3 games were quite significantly smaller in filesize. 

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9 hours ago, UP100 said:

They aren't really closing down the game, just changing their filesystems etc. that is usually done to lower filesizes etc. What has actually happened is that most "actual" modders quit around that time. 

GAS is an "Old EGO" game, and more tools were developed for "Old EGO". Now that we only have Ryder and so, there arent that many new tools at all.

Oh, I see...   so the modders are to blame because "they quit" 🤦‍♂️   are you for real?

I did the whole BayetasMod for Grid2 just editing text files: https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/bayetas-mod.439/

It featured:

1. New physics and car settings/handling for higher realism.
2. 12 new Immersive Camera Views + Replay cameras.
3. Improved lighting and visuals rendering. Lots of changes both in locations and cameras settings for a more realistic look. Softer lens flares, adjusted colour balance, tonemap, DoF, motion blur, distortion, bloom, dust, streaks, etc.
4. Optimized HQ Settings for top visuals quality and performance (+60fps @ 2560x1440 - Radeon7970)
5. Improved ForceFeedback for wheels. (You may need to recalibrate your ingame FFB strengths balance using it, but this FFB is MUCH more realistic if you drive using a wheel)
6. TrackIR support. Works too during Flashbacks and in realtime during Replays. There is a special camera support in Cameras 2 and 3 (Extreme Immersive strength 1-2) that allows to use a control to turn the head back smoothly while using TrackIR all the time to look backwards.

Again, all just editing .ini files. 

Now tell me again they don't close the games. "just changing filesystems etc"...    to close the game.

Pretending these changes were done to lowering file sizes, when we are talking about 1 to 50Kb text files in a 73GB game is a pathetic excuse.

They don't want to allow modding like they used to. Even for the most basic stuff like extending LOD's. Period.

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Some of it will be to stop cheating, used to be bad in some grid games with teleporting or over-speed racers but in reality the changes will be due to new coding/modeling/engine software that is better designed for collaboration and change management over the different gaming platforms.

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18 minutes ago, GavinMac said:

Some of it will be to stop cheating, used to be bad in some grid games with teleporting or over-speed racers but in reality the changes will be due to new coding/modeling/engine software that is better designed for collaboration and change management over the different gaming platforms.

Cheating had nothing to do with it, mods that modified physics and cars were already detected and only worked offline. Cheaters use other kind of tools to cheat.

You don't remove .ini files and put them encrypted/unaccesible inside other files because that's a better design for "collaboration" or has anything to do with different platforms.
You do that to prevent people outside your Company to modify them.

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48 minutes ago, jesped said:

Cheating had nothing to do with it, mods that modified physics and cars were already detected and only worked offline. Cheaters use other kind of tools to cheat.

You don't remove .ini files and put them encrypted/unaccesible inside other files because that's a better design for "collaboration" or has anything to do with different platforms.
You do that to prevent people outside your Company to modify them.

About cheating: Not true in EGO 3 games to some extent at least. F1 2017 was the first EGO 3 game to include basic file checks for cheats I believe. That's already years after release of the engine. 

We dont know what the changes were made for most of the time, but for example .wem files seem to make playing large files easier than what it was before.

It's not like it's even rare for an engine to package things. EA titles, XNA/MonoGame, Unity and so on... 

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48 minutes ago, UP100 said:

About cheating: Not true in EGO 3 games to some extent at least. F1 2017 was the first EGO 3 game to include basic file checks for cheats I believe. That's already years after release of the engine. 

We dont know what the changes were made for most of the time, but for example .wem files seem to make playing large files easier than what it was before.

It's not like it's even rare for an engine to package things. EA titles, XNA/MonoGame, Unity and so on... 

Modified files were checked in GRID 2 and switched to an "only offline" alternative save/mode. In 2013. They allowed modding and this is proof they even actively supported it.

What are you trying to say? that the total inability of modding anything but skins they've been enforcing since then is just "coincidence" and has nothing to do with Codemasters actively wanting to prevent modding?  because that's an unbelievable and laughable excuse mate...

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22 minutes ago, jesped said:

Modified files were checked in GRID 2 and switched to an "only offline" alternative save/mode. In 2013. They allowed modding and this is proof they even actively supported it.

I knew about this, but I only mentioned EGO 3 games 🙂 

22 minutes ago, jesped said:

What are you trying to say? that the total inability of modding anything but skins they've been enforcing since then is just "coincidence" and has nothing to do with Codemasters actively wanting to prevent modding?  because that's an unbelievable and laughable excuse mate...

I'm saying that archiving files is the standard all across development teams and engines. Trying to prevent modifications simply does not work as all filetypes get cracked easily, because you literally have the software there modifying the files.

For example a small indie team modified their own archive type for their game that was running on MonoGame. Did they do it to prevent modding? The developers wanted to look into giving the community modding tools, and the game was written in C# meaning that the whole source code would be available to everyone (so that someone could just simply take their import code and create a software that exports the files)

I decided to take a look at all the games I have installed on my laptop to see how many of those archive their files in some way

  • Cobalt, custom engine, uses archiving or binary files for tiles, sprites/other data and localization. I most (if not all) lua files have been added in an update that included modding support
  • F1 2018 - As you know.
  • hackmud - Unity game, uses standard archives such as .assets etc.
  • Jalopy - Another Unity game
  • Lock's Quest - Another Unity game
  • Old Time Hockey, Monogame - Uses MonoGame content pipeline (aka archives sounds, effects, sprites, models, fonts etc)
  • Operation Flashpoint Red River - Some kind of archiving I've never seen in any other Codies title. OFDR was purposefully made moddable to an extent (including lua support for example)
  • Portal 2 - See Source's filetypes from here https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Category:File_formats
  • SHENZHEN IO - Sprites, sounds and etc are not compressed or archived in any way. Though there are still .cso files that I don't know the use of
  • Civilization V - Unbelievably has loads of lua files, config files and sounds. Still has a .civ5map format that is not plain text at least. Most likely binary
  • Tropico 5 - Uses an archive format.

I don't have many games on my laptop as I don't game much on my laptop 😛 

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1 hour ago, UP100 said:

I knew about this, but I only mentioned EGO 3 games 🙂 

I'm saying that archiving files is the standard all across development teams and engines. Trying to prevent modifications simply does not work as all filetypes get cracked easily, because you literally have the software there modifying the files.

For example a small indie team modified their own archive type for their game that was running on MonoGame. Did they do it to prevent modding? The developers wanted to look into giving the community modding tools, and the game was written in C# meaning that the whole source code would be available to everyone (so that someone could just simply take their import code and create a software that exports the files)

I decided to take a look at all the games I have installed on my laptop to see how many of those archive their files in some way

  • Cobalt, custom engine, uses archiving or binary files for tiles, sprites/other data and localization. I most (if not all) lua files have been added in an update that included modding support
  • F1 2018 - As you know.
  • hackmud - Unity game, uses standard archives such as .assets etc.
  • Jalopy - Another Unity game
  • Lock's Quest - Another Unity game
  • Old Time Hockey, Monogame - Uses MonoGame content pipeline (aka archives sounds, effects, sprites, models, fonts etc)
  • Operation Flashpoint Red River - Some kind of archiving I've never seen in any other Codies title. OFDR was purposefully made moddable to an extent (including lua support for example)
  • Portal 2 - See Source's filetypes from here https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Category:File_formats
  • SHENZHEN IO - Sprites, sounds and etc are not compressed or archived in any way. Though there are still .cso files that I don't know the use of
  • Civilization V - Unbelievably has loads of lua files, config files and sounds. Still has a .civ5map format that is not plain text at least. Most likely binary
  • Tropico 5 - Uses an archive format.

I don't have many games on my laptop as I don't game much on my laptop 😛 

You can divert the point all you want and dig any excuses, but the point still is: Codemasters was open to modding and supporting it years ago, now they are purposedly not.
It's not "coincidence", and it doesn't matter if "there are others doing the same". We are in the Codemasters forum talking about Codemasters here. About what they did in the past and what they do now.

Facts are you can't change even the most basic things like LOD's in GRID 2019 because Codemasters don't want you to change them, so they won't allow you to. Period.

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1 hour ago, GavinMac said:

TBH I doubt they gave it any thought, much like the multiplayer in GRID 2019 😜

Oh, I think they definitely do. They don't want modding fixing, improving and extending the life of their "products", so they can churn out half baked "products" annually or every few years and keep asking for more money from us.

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12 minutes ago, jesped said:

You can divert the point all you want and dig any excuses, but the point still is: Codemasters was open to modding and supporting it years ago, now they are purposedly not.
It's not "coincidence", and it doesn't matter if "there are others doing the same". We are in the Codemasters forum talking about Codemasters here. About what they did in the past and what they do now.

Facts are you can't change even the most basic things like LOD's in GRID 2019 because Codemasters don't want you to change them, so they won't allow you to. Period.

Two games having mod support doesnt really mean much, eh? OFDR was basically only custom missions, and GRID 2 was mostly about having a way to modify the files without getting flagged as cheater, not to actually allow any new way to modify anything. 

Teams may change their priorities over the years, and that's most likely the case here as well. 

Have you actually checked that you cant change LOD values from the car's config files for example? We actually have access to those, you know. 

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18 minutes ago, UP100 said:

Two games having mod support doesnt really mean much, eh? OFDR was basically only custom missions, and GRID 2 was mostly about having a way to modify the files without getting flagged as cheater, not to actually allow any new way to modify anything. 

Teams may change their priorities over the years, and that's most likely the case here as well. 

Have you actually checked that you cant change LOD values from the car's config files for example? We actually have access to those, you know. 

Yeah. We all know what their priorities are now. :classic_laugh:

I didn't mean the car's LOD. You can't fix the horrible shadows draw distance for example:

GRID_Shadows.gif

let alone all the rest of visual effects like lens flares, color balance, tonemap, DoF, motion blur, distortion, bloom, smoke, dust, streaks, etc. 
Or
 cameras, physics, handling, FFB, ...

It's not "two games". All of those things and more were accessible at least it Dirt 2, Dirt 3, Dirt Showdown, Grid, Grid 2, Grid Autosport. And it's no "coincidence" that now they are not.

But hey, you can change a tire texture. Great modding support. 😂
 

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7 minutes ago, jesped said:

It's not "two games". All of those things and more were accessible at least it Dirt 2, Dirt 3, Dirt Showdown, Grid, Grid 2, Grid Autosport. And it's no "coincidence" that now they are not.

But hey, you can change a tire texture. Great modding support. 😂
 

Mate that's not support. Just because the files are there, it doesn't mean modding is supported. The loads of different files are still available in GRID 2019, but it doesn't have modding support either.

No Codemasters EGO game that I know of has offered the user with any kind of freedom except for OFDR which had lua scripting and mission creator. Feel free to add some more games into the list that I have inside my head, but I can't remember any at least.

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20 minutes ago, UP100 said:

Mate that's not support. Just because the files are there, it doesn't mean modding is supported. The loads of different files are still available in GRID 2019, but it doesn't have modding support either.

No Codemasters EGO game that I know of has offered the user with any kind of freedom except for OFDR which had lua scripting and mission creator. Feel free to add some more games into the list that I have inside my head, but I can't remember any at least.

Quality settings, Cameras, physics, handling, FFB, lens flares, color balance, tonemap, DoF, motion blur, distortion, bloom, smoke, dust, streaks, etc.  were open and moddable in at least 6 titles (just that I know of, but sure they were more)

Now NOTHING of that can be modified. 
But I guess the modders are to blame and not Codemasters.
It wasn't Codemasters intentions and clear purpose to prevent modding. It was a thing that just "happened naturally", without any purpose, intention or thought put into it. In Happy-Land, in a gumdrop house on Lollipop Lane! 😂

You can beat around the bush with semantics and cover-up excuses all you want, pal, but those are the facts that anybody can check.

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3 minutes ago, jesped said:

Quality settings, Cameras, physics, handling, FFB, lens flares, color balance, tonemap, DoF, motion blur, distortion, bloom, smoke, dust, streaks, etc.  were moddable in at least 6 titles (just that I know of, but sure they were more)

Now NOTHING of that can be modified. 
But I guess the modders are to blame and not Codemasters.
It wasn't Codemasters intentions and clear purpose to prevent modding. It was a thing that just "happened naturally", without any purpose, intention or though put into it. In Happy-Land, in a gumdrop house on Lollipop Lane! 😂

You can beat around the bush with semantics all you want, pal, but those are the facts that anybody can see.

Quality settings, lens flares, DoF, motion blur, bloom, streaks etc. are at least available for the user to modify. See /Documents/My Games/GRID (2019)/hardwaresettings/hardware_settings_config.xml

Loads of things can be modified, you just haven't tried anything.

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19 minutes ago, UP100 said:

Quality settings, lens flares, DoF, motion blur, bloom, streaks etc. are at least available for the user to modify. See /Documents/My Games/GRID (2019)/hardwaresettings/hardware_settings_config.xml

Loads of things can be modified, you just haven't tried anything.

🤦‍♂️

Dude, have you even read the thread you are posting in?

Specially before pointing any fingers and making any accusations?

First page...
 

On 10/8/2019 at 7:57 AM, jesped said:

On the negative. There is only one .xml with options that can be edited, in Documents\My Games\GRID (2019)\hardwaresettings\hardware_settings_config.xml
(default settings)
image.thumb.png.e572bf5a3b8aeeecb7c63c3f4fb1e589.png

It doesn't have any settings to improve LOD, and some that seemed interesting like "crowdinShadows" doesn't work when set to True.

Still tests to run but it doesn't look that much can be done besides increasing shadows resolution and disabling features that doesn't have a proper option in the Advanced Settings menu: motionBlur, godRays, depthOfField, lensStreak, lensFlare, lensDust and bloom.

There is no SMAA option in the Advanced menu now, and the option here is set to False by default.


I'm talking about modding/editing/adjusting/tweaking those effects in the .xml files that were available in the game's folder for each track in previous games (among many other stuff) not just disabling them in the general config file.

What have you fixed in this xml file?  what sense makes that you can rise shadows resolution when the draw distance is 4 meters ahead of your car and you can see them literally being painted in front of you when you are playing?

Maybe you fixed or improved anything by disabling features? 🤔

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7 minutes ago, jesped said:

Sure. I'm sure everybody is amazed by such a stunningly awesome improvement...    😂

 

Well I proved ya the game can be modified by fixing the thing a lot of people have talked about 😛 Although that is definitely #likenoother damage

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