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[GRID 2019] Graphics Discussion - Why exactly it looks #LikeNoOther


jesped

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24 minutes ago, UP100 said:

Well I proved ya the game can be modified by fixing the thing a lot of people have talked about 😛 Although that is definitely #likenoother damage

PC users only 😔 this xml files should be an Options in game menu setting on every platform 😣

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Would be nice for Codemasters @CMTGK to make a statement to explain why we have graphics #LikeNoOther.... who knows, they might have nice graphics and we are just getting a messed up copy!

Any reason why in track terrain_textures there is only a low_lod folder? anyone noticed if the lod setting actually does anything?

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37 minutes ago, UP100 said:

Well I proved ya the game can be modified by fixing the thing a lot of people have talked about 😛 Although that is definitely #likenoother damage

This is a graphics thread, that you didn't even read...     what are you talking about?

Have you fixed any of the problems we've been discussing in this thread and the previous one in the last 6 months that are still present today? 

Have you fixed any draw distances? shadows? reflections? Trees? LODs? tonemapping? Textures loading over low res ones? Flat lighting? any modified Cameras, lens flares, color balance, tonemap, DoF, motion blur, distortion, bloom, smoke, dust, streaks, ... ?


Let us know when you do. 

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I don't know why do you even argue with a "forum moderator" about modding ...

To be honest, I lost interest in this franchise day after they released last game, I am just curious where they will end up with it 🙂
Its funny how they changed their direction from 0 (zero) listening to the fans, to actually adding community requested things under pressure few months after!

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12 minutes ago, jesped said:

This is a graphics thread, that you didn't even read...     what are you talking about?

Have you fixed any of the problems we've been discussing in this thread and the previous one in the last 6 months that are still present today? 

Have you fixed any draw distances? shadows? reflections? Trees? LODs? tonemapping? Textures loading over low res ones? Flat lighting? any modified Cameras, lens flares, color balance, tonemap, DoF, motion blur, distortion, bloom, smoke, dust, streaks, ... ?


Let us know when you do. 

I'm not gonna do your job for you. You told me Codies have made the game impossible and now you know that certainly isnt the case. I'd say this conversation is now over

There are hundreds shadow/LOD related values, so I'm definitely not the one to do it 🙂

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12 minutes ago, UP100 said:

I'm not gonna do your job for you. You told me Codies have made the game impossible and now you know that certainly isnt the case. I'd say this conversation is now over

There are hundreds shadow/LOD related values, so I'm definitely not the one to do it 🙂

"My job" 🤦‍♂️
Tell that to "the Team" champ. About fixing the bugs there since prerelease in their game you're defending so much now...

Whatever dude.

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34 minutes ago, CrazySerbianGuy said:

I don't know why do you even argue with a "forum moderator" about modding ...

To be honest, I lost interest in this franchise day after they released last game, I am just curious where they will end up with it 🙂
Its funny how they changed their direction from 0 (zero) listening to the fans, to actually adding community requested things under pressure few months after!

Totally. Specially since Mr. smarty pants here didn't even read the thread before starting pointing fingers, discuss semantics, divert from graphics stuff, facts and points made 6 months ago in a desperate try at defending this pile.

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6 hours ago, jesped said:

Totally. Specially since Mr. smarty pants here didn't even read the thread before starting pointing fingers, discuss semantics, divert from graphics stuff, facts and points made 6 months ago in a desperate try at defending this pile.

I dont know why so much Ad Hominem. I mean it only benefits you to accept that you could try and change the graphics/gameplay stuff you preciously talked about being impossible 🙂

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8 hours ago, jesped said:

Have you fixed any draw distances? shadows? reflections? Trees? LODs? tonemapping? Textures loading over low res ones? Flat lighting? any modified Cameras, lens flares, color balance, tonemap, DoF, motion blur, distortion, bloom, smoke, dust, streaks, ... ?

This remains me Ice-T Warning track:

Parental advisory - explicit language!

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I own all the games and you can clearly see a backward step.

They were bold statements about how good these games were going to be. 

So its codemasters fault for raising people's high expectations .

If you are going to say how good your games are going to be then on release you have to  back that up.

On the YouTube thing. They get free copies of the game which is a fact .so most wont say anything bad because they wont get anymore free games to promote there YouTube channels. 

Again clearly when people like me and thousands of others have in invested hundreds and hundreds of hours testing and Racing. We have a better understanding of bugs then the actual person who made the game and probable dont touch the game unless it's to add paid dlc which in most cases add more bugs.

 

When you're getting something for free you are not going to say anything bad .simple fact of life .

For me personally all of this has got tedious over this last year and with all the help codemasters gets from there customer posting and highlighting bugs and in some cases even supplying a fix .just to be ignored or we end up going back to square one. 

Just full of unfulfilled promises lol.

Codemasters have the power and ability to produce brilliant sim Racing games but unfortunately they would rather sell to 3yr olds who have no experience and are not allowed a PC or ps4 account and certainly don't have the funds to buy the game. 

Wait it's the adults buying the game and 90% I would guess are over 18.

So stop making games for 3yr olds and start making games for adults. 

God bless America. 

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13 hours ago, CrazySerbianGuy said:

I don't know why do you even argue with a "forum moderator" about modding ...

To be honest, I lost interest in this franchise day after they released last game, I am just curious where they will end up with it 🙂
Its funny how they changed their direction from 0 (zero) listening to the fans, to actually adding community requested things under pressure few months after!

This is how modern development process works - start with Minimum Viable Product, then build on that once you see some cash come in.

Developers love it, consumers hate it.

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4 hours ago, GavinMac said:

moderate the hell out of this thread and grow up people... up100 is not a codemasters employee

Maybe not... But you can't help but feel his comments are heavily influenced by the "moderator" tag against his name and arguing against the clear, obvious and undeniable shortcomings that have been discussed many times over within this (and the previously deleted) thread since way, way before Grid was released doesn't really come across as unbiased opinion, does it?

 Everything Jesped has ever written has been backed up with tangible evidence as to why he wrote it so at the very least you have to show a certain degree of consideration towards his comments and on the face of things that seems to be something which up100 (and another 'pro Grid' person who will remain nameless) seem to find very difficult to do. Something which in turn gives all the more reason to question which side of the fence he is actually sitting on. Look, no matter who you are or who you think you are, differences of opinion are fine but arguing for argument's sake or arguing with rose tinted spectacles is just pointless....especially in here! Maybe up100 & co should recognise that fact by standing down and letting the thread continue doing what it set out to do.

Oops, back on topic...the trees look rubbish 🙂

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12 hours ago, UP100 said:

I dont know why so much Ad Hominem.

Definitions of your behavior are not Ad Hominems. 😉

You know, being a moderator and all, it is surprising how lacking your reading comprehension is:

22 hours ago, jesped said:

Quality settings, Cameras, physics, handling, FFB, lens flares, color balance, tonemap, DoF, motion blur, distortion, bloom, smoke, dust, streaks, etc.  were open and moddable in at least 6 titles (just that I know of, but sure they were more)

Now NOTHING of that can be modified. 
But I guess the modders are to blame and not Codemasters.


Then you come up with your stupendous definition of modding: disabling features in the user config file. 🤦‍♂️

22 hours ago, UP100 said:

Quality settings, lens flares, DoF, motion blur, bloom, streaks etc. are at least available for the user to modify. See /Documents/My Games/GRID (2019)/hardwaresettings/hardware_settings_config.xml

Loads of things can be modified, you just haven't tried anything.

21 hours ago, jesped said:

I'm talking about modding/editing/adjusting/tweaking those effects in the .xml files that were available in the game's folder for each track in previous games (among many other stuff) not just disabling them in the general config file.

And pointing fingers, accusing me of "haven't tried anything" when in fact I was the first one talking about and publishing the contents of that general configuration file in the first page of this very same thread, back in Oct 8.


Then you post some modified damage...    which has nothing to do with the xml files needed for modding not being open like in previous games, or with any of the graphics issues we've been discussing in this thread. But I guess you have to read the title of the thread to be aware of that:

image.thumb.png.b6c72466337fd0764acc70eaeafdc43e.png



To sum it up, you've been coming up with the most incredible and ridiculous excuses to defend Codemasters:

"No Codemasters EGO game that I know of has offered the user with any kind of freedom"   ...when at least 6 games had open files and hundreds of mods.

"it is to reduce filesizes"  ...of some 1 to 50Kb files in a 73GB game. While there are still 133 xml files in the game:
image.png.ebbf03d704b0580b6aa30ca79cc6a33c.png

"archiving files is the standard all across development teams"    ...when there are still 133 xml files in GRID 2019, just not the ones you need to properly modify the game like before. So blatantly clear that all input xml files are still there, open and accessible, just not the effectsetup.xml needed for modding the FFB.
 

So next time check out of your fanboyism bubble and carefully read the threads you post in, at least the first page.

ALL of these problems are still present in the game:

On 10/8/2019 at 7:24 AM, jesped said:

As the previous graphics discussion thread was closed because it seems it was too "clogged", I decided to unclog it for everybody's convenience in this long thread:



So all the problems and bugs are clearly presented and easy to have as reference in case Codemasters decides to fix them.

After seeing the game already on PC Ultra, I can assure first hand that all these issues are still present in the release version. Very noticeable problems with:

  • Trees
  • LODs
  • Shadows
  • Reflections
  • Exposure, Contrast, tonemapping
  • Textures loading over low res ones
  • Pixelated textures on cars
  • Flat lighting

Is there going to be a patch on the 11th that's going to fix all these problems?


Now, if you come up with a way to fix/improve any of the issues we've been discussing here and "the Team" haven't fix in the last six months, kudos to you. But I guess that's "my job" 😂


Here is the best mod, that fixes all problems with the game: :classic_laugh:

image.png.b348f0e3459d9b4d89938c67a27ad5eb.png

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7 minutes ago, UP100 said:

I guess I'll take this to the PMs as you've made a stupid choice of trying to keep this going for no reason at all 🙂 

 

13 hours ago, UP100 said:

I dont know why

You asked. That's why. But I guess that after all that absurdity you still want to have the last word, bordering on the insult on top.

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this is what happens when a company does less yet feels customers aren't entitled to what they expected & paid for.

it's a good thing i have pretty much all the good & great racing games of the last 2 decades.

I'am at a point where if i had to i could go for many years without buying another racing game i easily could.

This game was released "like no other" previous TOCA,Race driver, Grid in being chicken wings without the sauce & very few veggies.

Hope codies realizes that this series was supported & made popular by Older "Adult" gamer's.

CM's employees that love to play the games they worked on should be treated with the upmost respect & given bonuses instead of the CEO's & their ilk ! 

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7 hours ago, Leo Natan said:

Just a Codemasters shill, from what I have seen. 🤷‍♂️

I just don't like to repeat things that have already been said, which means I complain about things such as the F1 soundtracks being significantly worse than before and then the lack of Japanese localization in GRID 2019 although the game has the Japanese localization files... and now you're probably bored because I complained about things you don't care about 😁

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43 minutes ago, django|UKMD said:

We need CM to tell us where they are going from here, let's not rip each other apart here while we wait.

Well, "the team" was going to look into it, but @jesped only posted screenshots without following the very important template, so unfortunately, they are unable to reproduce. 😂

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Just now, CMTGK said:

Here's a thread addressing some of the visual/graphical issues that are being discussed.

 

Whilst this thread is locked, please feel free to continue a reasonable discussion of the game here. 

@Leo Natan Your reply to this post was not reasonable, hence why I have hidden it.

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I see the screenshots showing the beauty of Grid, we dont race in replay and those cams though. 

In terms of managing expectations we have learned the hard way, played Autosport for 6 years as a group, we tried to dip into asseta and pc2 but kept coming back because of the ease of GAS multiplayer and controller racing.  There was great excitement when 2019 was announced and we hoped for a worthy successor of Autosport, everything good about Autosport but with new features like sector/lap timings, multiplayer replay, weather, pitstops, new tracks and in reality upon release we barely got multiplayer and that hurt!

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Hi guys, first post here. Just got the game this weekend and while it's definitely fun (yes, I know, we all wanted more) I too noticed the low detail of important buildings in the maps.

 

@CMTGK - I strongly disagree with what's stated in that thread. The objects from the maps that suffer the worst from poor details and textures aren't small assets which can be sacrificed for better performance. They're the monuments which can be seen afar and which pretty much give the map names. Cathedral Run, Venetian Towers, Arc de Triomphe - all suffer from poor details.

This is very noticeable and since we're talking about such important landmarks this cannot be ignored.

As further proof that something's wrong I modified my - hardware_settings_config.xml file from Documents/My Games/GRID (2019) and changed:

<lod_quality lodBias="0.0" crowdLodBias="0.00" />

Setting these to 0 pretty much disables LODs and fixes many issues with LODs already reported here, like the low poly antenna dish or water tower, but doesn't at all touch these monuments. It also doesn't tank performance that much. I would recommend it to anyone who can afford the performance hit.

If you need even more proof checkout the screenshot that I just posted from Barcelona - Venetian Towers, taken with everything maxed out + the above modification done. Enlarge it and you can clearly see that they're multiple LODs present there and the end result is bad. The ground, car, crowd and even the red tent and trees details are much higher that the larger buildings. This is clearly an issue and cannot be considered a performance compromise.

I sincerely doubt that that monument if properly rendered at detail would affect performance that much. But it would make a big visual impact.

So please do contact the Dev team and let them know that they cannot leave these monuments unfixed.

Barcelona, Paris, San Francisco  - these city maps are the most affected. Kindly have the team investigate.

 

On a more general note I think that for the PC at least these changes would be most needed:

- Have an 'Ultra High' setting for the LOD Quality setting so that the hack above isn't needed to get good LODs;

- Have 'Ultra High' for shadows make then render further away;

- Give us an option to remove the chromatic aberration effect which so far cannot be found anywhere (not even in the .xml)

Thanks.

 

Detail issue.jpg

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2 hours ago, django|UKMD said:

There should be more options to tweak graphics settings on PC.

 

same on the other platforms. there are some config files and could be connected as graphic setting menu with optimal default.

ofcourse, it's easier not to do it. you can always write that the whole environment while driving is blurred so why focus on details or settings.

it is amazing that support is based on extracting the answers in a new closed thread.

I'm slowly beginning to understand why such critical opinions about new CM products.

I came by to say goodbye because I don't see the point to throw anything here.

thanks & bye

 

 

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@CMTGK

Quote

As with any game, there is a finite amount of resource when it comes to visuals. With GRID 2019, the decision was made with the resource budget to give more graphical fidelity to those deemed most important - things closer to the camera based on your perspectives such as your car, rival cars, and on-track textures. If more resource was given to those things further away, this could impact the performance of the game - it's as simple as that.

6 years passed since GRID2 had been released. GTX 780 was replaced by RTX 2080 (4 times higher fps https://www.gpucheck.com/compare/nvidia-geforce-gtx-780-vs-nvidia-geforce-rtx-2080-ti/intel-core-i7-3770k-3-50ghz-vs-intel-core-i7-8700k-3-70ghz/), Haswell CPU was replaced by Coffe Lake CPU (+50 fps performance even with older 8th generation https://www.techspot.com/review/1526-intel-4th-gen-core-i7-vs-8th-gen/)...

And GRID2019 can't render textures beyond 3 meters???
Does your "resource budget" still remain at 2013 level if you had to decrease LOD so much???
Maybe you shouldn't build so intense visuals around the car but make overall picture more solid???

Because this is absolutely shameful to see such horrible backgrounds in 2019

GRID_3.jpg


What's the point at all if I can buy 6yo game and get better visuals???
---

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5 hours ago, CMTGK said:

Whilst this thread is locked, please feel free to continue a reasonable discussion of the game here. 

@Leo Natan Your reply to this post was not reasonable, hence why I have hidden it.

The trees in Australia aren't "whizzing past at 180+ mph". The low lighting draw distances aren't "whizzing past at 180+ mph"...They are present and in full view on the near horizon - all of the time.

And how comes Havana, a location rich in features and detail is an absolute mile away from Sydney (a track that is essentially a field with a scattering of 'trees') in terms of visual quality?

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23 minutes ago, lastbreath said:

MAKE IT -1 !!! :classic_laugh:

-1 doesn't work. I tried it as a way to force a kind of "super LOD" but no dice.


Setting it to 0 affects the LOD on the track-side details, buildings and crowds (for the respective crowd setting), but doesn't affect the monuments, nor the draw distance of shadows and ground cover like grass. Also doesn't affect the draw distance of traffic cones on tracks which do pop in visibly.

Actually, I think the monuments are just bugged and don't respond to LODs at all. In my picture for instance after the barriers there are at least 3 different LOD settings and aren't related to the distance from the camera at all. The closer walls with towers are worst, the farther main building is better in detail and there's a small portion of stairs to the right of the center colums which has the most detail.

For the shadows I tried increasing the size in the same xml, but it doesn't make a difference in any way over max. It doesn't increase the distance, nor the quality.

Also for the shadows, I noticed that the quality varies even for your own car. The part closer to the camera is sharper, while the part further away is fuzzier, with no relation to the sun position.

Check the picture. The shadow above the red line is fuzzier, though in reality it should be more defined since it's cast from the hood and front of the car which are closer to the ground, that the roof and tail, which cast a clearer shadow below the line. And this is just for your car, which should always be rendered at utmost detail level, according to the locked thread mentioned earlier.

 

Shadow.png

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1 hour ago, XenoRad said:

Actually, I think the monuments are just bugged and don't respond to LODs at all. In my picture for instance after the barriers there are at least 3 different LOD settings and aren't related to the distance from the camera at all. The closer walls with towers are worst, the farther main building is better in detail

Seems legit

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The problem why it doesn't affect certain things, is because you're modifying a config files that doesn't modify the objects' LOD.

hardwaresettings_config is just a file to customize the graphical settings a bit, but they're not really meant for properly modifying the game (hence why LOD changes in that file tend to break loads of things)

You may be able to find a lead from some of the other files the game may include 😉 

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1 hour ago, UP100 said:

The problem why it doesn't affect certain things, is because you're modifying a config files that doesn't modify the objects' LOD.

hardwaresettings_config is just a file to customize the graphical settings a bit, but they're not really meant for properly modifying the game (hence why LOD changes in that file tend to break loads of things)

You may be able to find a lead from some of the other files the game may include 😉 

We wouldn't have to modify such files if we got more options to customize visuals in the game itself and if there weren't such issues with the LODs in the first place. And as far as I could see that modification doesn't break anything it just doesn't fix everything and there is an acceptable performance loss.

All of these discussions of which files to modify and how are just a workaround to the fact that the issue isn't being properly addressed officially. Ultimately, that's what we're asking for - that we get an official acknowledgement that the way the monuments look isn't right and that a fix will be implemented.

Nobody who takes a good honest look at some of the screenshots already posted in this thread can claim that it looks right or that it's an acceptable concession to performance. At the very least the highest available visual options in the UI should mitigate this. We're not asking that LODs be removed entirely, even for the highest option. But we'd like to be given the choice to improve visuals as much as we can for a performance hit which we can deem acceptable. I think it's a fair request.

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If you think about Crysis, you had the graphics settings that they thought you should play it on Low/Med/High but they also allowed you to max everything out leading to the saying 'but can it run crysis?'

You can build games that run on my old GTX970 but that doesn't mean you forget those who have a RTX2080, we will tweak the settings to best suit our rig and preference!

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Crysis was a special case with the config files. Not only could the DirectX 10 requirement for the highest settings be bypassed, but many options could be customized fixing also some distant LOD settings.

Anyway, Crysis still looks good and with both the config files as well as the in-game console the graphics could be tweaked to the user's desire.

That is an extreme case, but otherwise the point is that more options increase the lifespan of a game.

As a gamer the LOD switching is one of the most noticeable aspects in graphics when not done right. Even in Project Cars 2 there's some small issues and even on highest quality level the AI cars only have full details a few meters away from the camera. The option to customize it beyond an artificial limitation would definitely alleviate such problems and as time passes and hardware improves, would even become something with pretty much 0 performance impact but with a great visual impact.

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I don't know what limitations are you talking about. All I know 6 years ago there were GRID2 and GRID Autosport with amazing visuals and distant LOD. After all these years technologies made a huge step ahead and they say it's impossible to create even 2013 level backgrounds? This is BS. I expected LOD would be 2 times longer, not 2 times shorter!!! What was improved in the game? Lighting, cars, crowd and weather. And you want to say 6-years gap in technologies wasn't enough for that??? They didn't add 2 times bigger locations, they didn't double amount of cars on the track, they didn't even apply real-time reflections on the road. SO WHAT THE HELL ATE ALL RESOURCES???

Frankly speaking, as a customer I even don't need any explanation. The game from 2013 has more consistent visuals. This is what I see as a customer. Period.

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2 hours ago, lastbreath said:

I don't know what limitations are you talking about. All I know 6 years ago there were GRID2 and GRID Autosport with amazing visuals and distant LOD. After all these years technologies made a huge step ahead and they say it's impossible to create even 2013 level backgrounds? This is BS. I expected LOD would be 2 times longer, not 2 times shorter!!! What was improved in the game? Lighting, cars, crowd and weather. And you want to say 6-years gap in technologies wasn't enough for that??? They didn't add 2 times bigger locations, they didn't double amount of cars on the track, they didn't even apply real-time reflections on the road. SO WHAT THE HELL ATE ALL RESOURCES???

Frankly speaking, as a customer I even don't need any explanation. The game from 2013 has more consistent visuals. This is what I see as a customer. Period.

GRID (2019) was designed with the lowest common denominator in mind. Imagine if the PC version was making console look even worse than it is already 😄

But please, pretty please, give us a shadow draw distance option - if there is such a thing.

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5 hours ago, django|UKMD said:

GRID (2019) was designed with the lowest common denominator in mind

Codemasters racing games always had top notch visuals. But since 2014 all I see is total degradation in graphics in every title. Till DiRT3 and GAS there was rising in visuals. After that - continuous downhill run.

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I've created a new thread under Technical Assistance for the LOD problem:

I believe the screenshots there should be all that's needed to acknowledge this issue, but of course others can come in with their examples. The point is that something needs to be done about this.

I also created another thread for the shadow render distance and quality.
 

You guys can feel free to add your own high-res examples there.

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