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[GRID 2019] Graphics Discussion - Why exactly it looks #LikeNoOther


jesped

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GRID 2019 ToD/Weather Options

 

9 in total to choose from so 8 more than only boring default day ^^ in every other GRID game... Thats an improvement right here lady´s and gentleman... 😄

 

Galleryhttps://abload.de/gallery.php?key=kRCkouX3

 

Rain, night look very great with those thousands of lights around the track...

Also that one i like very much:

zwielichtalk4c.png

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I was just thinking.... You don't really seem to be playing the game very much so for the £65 you could probably have bought a digital camera and gone outside to take pics of real trees and real streets with real lighting 😋. Because most points seem to have been pretty much covered I think the graphics thing has probably run it's course so c'mon man, get playing 'properly' and tell us about the gameplay/longevity side of things. I want to know if it's still worth playing after 10-15 hours or if it's as grindy/boring as people are starting to say.

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Driving model is not very good (all cars feel the same—it was intentional as developers said in IGN interview), game lacks content so longevity is low for now. "Career" is just a table of races, so it's not something that will make you want to go back much longer. Cars are all locked, need to buy them all, unlike, say Forza, where you have quite the variety to not get bored so fast.

And it has bad graphics.

I don't see how asking for good graphics in 2019 is considered "controversial". You have eyes, no? You don't see the visual bugs and issues? Issues that do not appear in other Codemasters games, let alone other games of the genre.

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57 minutes ago, Leo Natan said:

Driving model is terrible, game lacks content so longevity is low. "Career" is just a table of races, so it's not something that will make you want to go back much longer. Cars are all locked, need to buy them all, unlike, say Forza, where you have quite the variety to not get bored so fast.

And it has terrible graphics.

I don't see how asking for good graphics in 2019 is considered "controversial". You have eyes, no? You don't see the visual bugs and issues? Issues that do not appear in other Codemasters games, let alone other games of the genre.

I'm not saying it's controversial at all - after all, I have been actively contributing my concerns over lighting on consoles since what feels like the dawn of time. All I was saying is that all valid (yes, they are valid) points have now been covered and things starting to go round in circles so to save the inevitable bickering from nay sayers and more importantly for the sake of this thread not getting deleted (again) it might be better to wait until further developments occur before continuing the conversation. After all, there's plenty more to discuss and this is far too an important thread to lose.

The rest was just humour/sarcasm - something which i'm sure they've invented in your part of the world

To further add, i've also been arguing HDR lighting in Dirt Rally 2 - a point that seems to fall on deaf ears because it appears to be the case that, in the eyes of Codemasters, consoles are way too unimportant for any level of consideration - so I am fully aware of visual deficiencies (not bugs) in other Codemasters games as well....... Treasure Island Dizzy also suffered from colour clash so we can go even further back if you like 😳

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Maybe so.... But night circuits in Autosport are restricted to specific classes and from what i've seen (or looked for) it doesn't have one single street (city) track at night. So where Autosport is concerned it is indeed "not many".... and with this very flimsy evidence for my defence I rest my case m'lud 🙂 

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13 minutes ago, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

But night circuits in Autosport are restricted to specific classes

Can't argue with that. 

Also, as far as I remember, P2P tracks and city tracks were added as DLC, thats why they had cut possibilities

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Famous Sepang corner in Autosport:

20191010132451_1.thumb.jpg.4ac639c1a8a2c42c760771b902b7cf5a.jpg

20191010132456_1.thumb.jpg.b85846ca1210318219559d89386d3820.jpg

Should I remind how it looks in new GRID? ))

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1 minute ago, lastbreath said:

Can't argue with that. 

Also, as far as I remember, P2P tracks and city tracks were added as DLC, thats why they had cut possibilities

Ah, I didn't know that and thanks for bringing it up. I'm interested to know if the DLC was made available on XB1 when it became backwards compatible because if the circuits were integrated into career mode it would be a worthwhile purchase. Not only that, I would also get to compare visual difference between new and old on consoles... 

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3 hours ago, FLAW3D said:

Grid seems to hold up well considering its like on a tenth of the budget if not less.

How does the budget make any difference to you as a consumer? 🙄 The price of the game is 60/100 USD, which is the same as GT Sport, which is all that matters to me as a consumer.

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45 minutes ago, Leo Natan said:

How does the budget make any difference to you as a consumer? 🙄 The price of the game is 60/100 USD, which is the same as GT Sport, which is all that matters to me as a consumer.

Better budget gives you better artists, Gives you more time to complete the project etc. If Codemasters could throw 80-100 million at Grid i'd put my house on it surpassing GT Sport on just about every level. 

If you cannot look at the bigger picture what is the point in all these comparisons. Pointless unless you understand how games are created. Not everything can be equal. 

Watching the vid again in proper gameplay view (cockpit cam) Grid looks better and sounds better. Impressive. I had only seen that awful chase cam view before. 

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4 minutes ago, FLAW3D said:

Better budget gives you better artists, Gives you more time to complete the project etc. If Codemasters could throw 80-100 million at Grid i'd put my house on it surpassing GT Sport on just about every level. 

If you cannot look at the bigger picture what is the point in all these comparisons. Pointless unless you understand how games are created. Not everything can be equal. 

How about comparing graphics to Codemasters' own projects, such as Dirt 2.0 and F1 2019, which both look far superior to this, run better on consoles, and have much better driving mechanics? Those games didn't have "80-100 million" budgets either.

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1 minute ago, Leo Natan said:

How about comparing graphics to Codemasters' own projects, such as Dirt 2.0 and F1 2019, which both look far superior to this, run better on consoles, and have much better driving mechanics? Those games didn't have "80-100 million" budgets either.

I'd say it looks better than Dirt 2.0, Maybe you need to upgrade your TV 😉 

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3 hours ago, FLAW3D said:

Grid seems to hold up well considering its like on a tenth of the budget if not less.

Project Cars 2 was also put together on a restricted budget with a small development team using an old but modified game engine (the Madness engine was used for NFS Shift on X360). Countless circuits + cars, dynamic weather, top drawer graphics with subtle lighting, CPL's, and options for visual configuration (which makes a world of difference) on consoles is what they delivered so, you know, anything is possible if you give it your best shot. 

Sorry, I don't really think that you have a solid ground for argument with that one...

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Just now, FLAW3D said:

I'd say it looks better than Dirt 2.0, Maybe you need to upgrade your TV 😉 

Or you should not make stupid assumptions?

I am playing both on my PC, with a high end monitor. This thread has a link to a Twitter thread with plethora of visual glitches. There are comparisons to Codemasters own 6+ years old games, which look better in many places.

I'll make an assumption of my own: you have Vaseline smeared on your eyes or are legally blind.

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5 minutes ago, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

Project Cars 2 was also put together on a restricted budget with a small development team using an old but modified game engine (the Madness engine was used for NFS Shift on X360). Countless circuits + cars, dynamic weather, top drawer graphics with subtle lighting, CPL's, and options for visual configuration (which makes a world of difference) on consoles is what they delivered so, you know, anything is possible if you give it your best shot. 

Sorry, I don't really think that you have a solid ground for argument with that one...

Don't forget Driveclub, which also came from a small team and didn't have sky-high budget.

Really, the only racing games with huge budgets are the Forza series and GT/Sport.

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Just now, Leo Natan said:

Don't forget Driveclub, which also came from a small team and didn't have sky-high budget.

Really, the only racing games with huge budgets are the Forza series and GT/Sport.

Driveclub was 30fps. It should never be included against 60fps games.

 

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4 hours ago, Leo Natan said:

Driving model is not very good (all cars feel the same—it was intentional as developers said in IGN interview)

I agree with the rest you say but driving is very good and all cars feel different,  driving formula has nothing to do with muscle cars... The biggest problem is the lack of mp features for me it's really very bad right now.. 

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9 minutes ago, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

Project Cars 2 was also put together on a restricted budget with a small development team using an old but modified game engine (the Madness engine was used for NFS Shift on X360). Countless circuits + cars, dynamic weather, top drawer graphics with subtle lighting, CPL's, and options for visual configuration (which makes a world of difference) on consoles is what they delivered so, you know, anything is possible if you give it your best shot. 

Sorry, I don't really think that you have a solid ground for argument with that one...

Id put money on the PCARS 2 budget being alot bigger than you think 😉 and Grid is com0arable graphics wise id say.

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4 minutes ago, FLAW3D said:

Driveclub was 30fps. It should never be included against 60fps games.

 

Grid is also 30fps on PS4. 🤦‍♂️ Drive Club never had a PS4Pro patch, so they are on equal footing here.

You seem to only have emotional retorts, but nothing of intelligent substance.

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2 minutes ago, FLAW3D said:

Driveclub was 30fps. It should never be included against 60fps games.


GRID 2019 is 30fps on the same console as Driveclub: base PS4

That's exactly why I compared them here:


GRID looks like a PS3 game compared to Driveclub, which on top of it all is 5 years older too.

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3 minutes ago, Miatakias_GR said:

I agree with the rest you say but driving is very good and all cars feel different,  driving formula has nothing to do with muscle cars... The biggest problem is the lack of mp features for me it's really very bad right now.. 

I guess that's a discussion for different thread. I had higher expectations from the driving mechanics of this game, I guess.

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3 minutes ago, FLAW3D said:

Id put money on the PCARS 2 budget being alot bigger than you think 😉 and Grid is com0arable graphics wise id say.

GRID 2019 is not a little indie game put up in a few years. It belongs to a franchise with many titles, they had 5 years since the last one and Codemasters isn't a "little company".

I don't see Pcars guys paying big bucks to Fernando Alonso, so stop with these excuses already...

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Haha, that Alonso stuff is really ridiculous. I really have to wonder what the intersection is between arcade-loving casual racing game playing people (core audience of this game) and those that know and care if Alonso is featured in a game. I'd guess that's a very small number of people, thus all the money wasted on Alonso is such a thrown-out opportunity. It would have made much more sense if this was a sim, where most fan of sim racing probably know and respect Alonso. I'd have preferred all that money go into the base content for the game and its technical polish, rather than have Alonso's picture in a career table in an arcade game.

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22 minutes ago, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

Project Cars 2 was also put together on a restricted budget with a small development team using an old but modified game engine (the Madness engine was used for NFS Shift on X360). Countless circuits + cars, dynamic weather, top drawer graphics with subtle lighting, CPL's, and options for visual configuration (which makes a world of difference) on consoles is what they delivered so, you know, anything is possible if you give it your best shot. 

Sorry, I don't really think that you have a solid ground for argument with that one...

SMS is not a small team. And Grid 2019 is visually a lot better than PCARS2 actually (sound is better as well). Where PCARS2 is unbeatable in this area is its features, as it supports true triple monitor support, VR, realtime 24h time cycle, true track evolution and a lot more. But when comparing visuals 1:1, Grid 2019 is much better looking.

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2 minutes ago, cpcdem said:

SMS is not a small team. And Grid 2019 is visually a lot better than PCARS2 actually (sound is better as well). Where PCARS2 is unbeatable in this area is its features, as it supports true triple monitor support, VR, realtime 24h time cycle, true track evolution and a lot more. But when comparing visuals 1:1, Grid 2019 is much better looking.

It really isn't.

It has a more modern Engine from a features standpoint, that's true, but as currently used in Grid, there are far more visual anomalies and overall lack of quality than in pCars 2.

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1 minute ago, Leo Natan said:

all the money wasted on Alonso is such a thrown-out opportunity. 

Totally agree. Been saying this for a month in the closed graphics thread. 😂

If all that money had been put into the dev team pockets for more high quality coders and artists, better paid and more time...   game could have been as amazing as the original Race Driver GRID with Driveclub visuals quality. I would have paid more than $100 for that, and I'm sure many many people would have too.

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12 minutes ago, Leo Natan said:

It really isn't.

It has a more modern Engine from a features standpoint, that's true, but as currently used in Grid, there are far more visual anomalies and overall lack of quality than in pCars 2.

Hehe visual anomalies...I love this game (almost 3000 hours in it!), but visual (and other type of) anomalies...I don't think you will find any racing game with more than PCARS2 🙂

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21 minutes ago, jesped said:

GRID 2019 is not a little indie game put up in a few years. It belongs to a franchise with many titles, they had 5 years since the last one and Codemasters isn't a "little company".

I don't see Pcars guys paying big bucks to Fernando Alonso, so stop with these excuses already...

What excuses the game looks decent! 

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4 hours ago, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

to save the inevitable bickering from nay sayers and more importantly for the sake of this thread not getting deleted (again)

The old thread was closed for the weird reason of being "clogged", go figure...   the main problem of that thread was all the people that were constantly disregarding its own existence with the "it's just a prerelease build"  "all will be fixed at release"...     well, the game IS released now...  and mainly EVERYTHING reported in that thread is valid still. All the bugs and problems are still in the game at this moment.

Will they be fixed? we don't know about that, because devs are too cautious to commit in public.

If there is a patch tomorrow, we don't know what is addressed in it (if anything) regarding these problems with visuals.

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18 minutes ago, Leo Natan said:

It really isn't.

It has a more modern Engine from a features standpoint, that's true, but as currently used in Grid, there are far more visual anomalies and overall lack of quality than in pCars 2.

PCARS 2 uses Madness but it was re-built from the ground up for PCARS 2 and is far more advanced and newer than the Ego engine. Most of my racing has been spent on PCARS 2 this gen and Grid looks every bit as good if not better. 

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Just now, cpcdem said:

Hehe visual anomalies...I love this game (almost 3000 hours in it!), but visual (and other type of) anomalies...I don't think you will find any racing game with more than PCARS2 🙂

I too have several hundred hours with Project Cars 2. It has improved significantly over they years. The only egregious visual aspect of the game I find is the cardboard cross trees. In 2019, this is, indeed, unacceptable.

AC Competizione looks better in some regards, it also running on a more modern Unreal Engine 4, but it (as well as other games, such as MotoGP 18/19) also suffers for its engine with visual artifacts, such as bad screen-space reflections, subpar motion blur, short distance shadow and overall low LOD tolerance (much like this game).

 

1 minute ago, jesped said:

Will they be fixed? we don't know about that, because devs are too cautious to commit in public.

If there is a patch tomorrow, we don't know what is addressed in it (if anything) regarding these problems with visuals.

Let's hope for the best. 👍

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38 minutes ago, Leo Natan said:

Grid is also 30fps on PS4. 🤦‍♂️ Drive Club never had a PS4Pro patch, so they are on equal footing here.

You seem to only have emotional retorts, but nothing of intelligent substance.

Well tbh i only played it on a PS4 Pro and it was 30fps and while the graphics were great everything else was rotten. You cannot say you dont prefer the driving/racing and the 60fps in GRID than Driveclub unless you guys are just pure graphics whores and dont give a **** about the driving/racing? I did see some clowns in that other thread crying about reflections 🤣

 

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1 minute ago, FLAW3D said:

PCARS 2 uses Madness but it was re-built from the ground up for PCARS 2 and is far more advanced and newer than the Ego engine. Most of my racing has been spent on PCARS 2 this gen and Grid looks every bit as good if not better. 

Sure. I may have misspoke. I am quite familiar with the Project Cars game development, being a backer of the original and later for the second. So I am familiar with the engine development. While it has advanced, it is still a similar core, with similar engine pitfalls (such as problem to push high track geometry). I am less familiar with Ego, but F1 2019 displays quite a modern engine (not seen at all here in Grid 2019), which is what I was basing my saying.

1 minute ago, FLAW3D said:

Well tbh i only played it on a PS4 Pro and it was 30fps and while the graphics were great everything else was rotten. You cannot say you dont prefer the driving/racing in GRID than Driveclub. 

To be honest, I find both too arcade for my liking. Grid 1 wasn't as arcade as this. I prefer Project Cars, F1, etc. Simcades, leaning on the realism side.

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28 minutes ago, cpcdem said:

SMS is not a small team. And Grid 2019 is visually a lot better than PCARS2 actually (sound is better as well). Where PCARS2 is unbeatable in this area is its features, as it supports true triple monitor support, VR, realtime 24h time cycle, true track evolution and a lot more. But when comparing visuals 1:1, Grid 2019 is much better looking.

SMS employ 175 people throughout it's entire organisation and Codemasters employ 470.

In comparison with it's competitors SMS is a small AAA development team who make great games once they've had 300gb of updates applied to them

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17 minutes ago, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

SMS employ 175 people throughout it's entire organisation and Codemasters employ 470.

In comparison with it's competitors SMS is a small AAA development team who make great games once they've had 300gb of updates applied to them

Codies put out 4 or 5 games with those 470 divided into teams in the space of SMS put out 1 game. Imo both great devs but lately Codies like most of the rest of the gaming world have been cutting corners. 

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The game needs an option to run at 60 fps on base consoles... sacrificing graphical detail, even maybe reducing the amount of cars per race, but hell... it is so weird to play a Codemasters game that runs at 30 fps. It really spoils part of the fun for me.

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3 hours ago, FLAW3D said:

Well tbh i only played it on a PS4 Pro and it was 30fps and while the graphics were great everything else was rotten. You cannot say you dont prefer the driving/racing and the 60fps in GRID than Driveclub unless you guys are just pure graphics whores and dont give a **** about the driving/racing? I did see some clowns in that other thread crying about reflections 🤣

Driveclub is a game from 2014 that didn't have a patch for the Pro. GRID 2019 is a game that looks a generation inferior to Driveclub. This is a thread for GRAPHICS DISCUSSION, go to another thread if you are not interested in DISCUSSING GRAPHICS... 🤷‍♂️

You mean the "clowns" that were pointing out the shame of having these fake nonsensical reflections in 2019?

image.pngimage.pngB2G0igv.png

When mostly all games in the past 5-10 years have been featuring proper reflections. FFS, we even had cars properly reflected on the wet asphalt in F1 2001 PS2Two generations ago 😂
EA_Sports_F1_2001_Screenshot_1.jpgimage.png.af658c067aeff09cd1d1bba769bf1e0e.png 


Or these proper realistic reflections in F1 2019, from the same Codemasters, using the exact same EGO engine v4...  🤦‍♂️
image.png

But maybe proper reflections are a thing of the past that is not important at all, and that's why Raytracing is the new boom and gaming enthusiasts are spending $1000+ on top tier GPU's to have RT GI and Raytraced Reflections everywhere. 😂

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2 hours ago, Leo Natan said:

I too have several hundred hours with Project Cars 2. It has improved significantly over they years. The only egregious visual aspect of the game I find is the cardboard cross trees. In 2019, this is, indeed, unacceptable.

That was in PCARS1, in PCARS2 the trees are full 3D. But it has a lot of problems with bad AA, shadow flickering all over the place, Z-fighting etc. Grid is IMO a lot better in those areas, I am just missing the incredible amount of features PCARS2 has.

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