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[GRID 2019] Graphics Discussion - Why exactly it looks #LikeNoOther


jesped

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1 hour ago, cpcdem said:

I am just missing the incredible amount of features PCARS2 has.

Shadows don't flicker in GRID, that's a good thing for sure. But the far limit is just pathetic, you can see them being drawed in front of your car, as you can check in my previous post:


GRID also has noticeable problems with its TAA implementation, as been clearly showed just comparing it to GRID Autosport (right, same resolution). Look at those cables:
image.pngimage.png

Not to mention Project Cars 2 is a 2 years old game already.

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52 minutes ago, jesped said:

Shadows don't flicker in GRID, that's a good thing for sure. But the far limit is just pathetic, you can see them being drawed in front of your car, as you can check in my previous post:


GRID also has noticeable problems with its TAA implementation, as been clearly showed just comparing it to GRID Autosport (right, same resolution). Look at those cables:
image.pngimage.png

Not to mention Project Cars 2 is a 2 years old game already.

You seem to really really reeeeeaaally hate Grid.  Never have I seen anyone this hung up on graphics.  And have you seen the game on your own tv yet?  

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31 minutes ago, FLAW3D said:

Jes you have severe issues 🤣 Could a mod not put this poor boy out of his misery? 🤢

Yeah, sure. Go call for a mod like @ChrisGrovesMCM now after your puerile name-calling and pathetically empty personal mockery...  🤦‍♂️

What's your purpose participating in this GRAPHICS DISCUSSION thread? insult people that are on-topic while you show your lack of basic knowledge about graphics technologies and minimum manners talking to others? 🤷‍♂️

Go back to your cave if that's all you have to "contribute" to this topic.

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42 minutes ago, BRICKS44 said:

You seem to really really reeeeeaaally hate Grid.  Never have I seen anyone this hung up on graphics.  And have you seen the game on your own tv yet?  

You mistake "hate" with "disappointment". I'm a CG 3D artist myself, so...   yes, sure I am interested in graphics. But it is not like a personal mania of mine:

https://www.cinemablend.com/games/75-Gamers-Say-Graphics-Do-Matter-Purchasing-Game-64659.html
image.png
https://kotaku.com/yes-technical-details-are-important-in-video-games-1507704558
image.png


And yes, I am playing the game on a 100" screen.

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17 minutes ago, BRICKS44 said:

Jesped, the issue most of us have with you is you are talking in circles, repeating the same thing over and over and over.  I mean a thread exactly like this one was locked for a reason.  It’s getting no where.

You don't talk for "most of us", you talk for yourself.

The previous thread was locked because some people started name-calling and attacking the people that were reporting the problems with the game, and thus filling the thread with unnecesary and unrelated garbage. Some fanboys just can't stand others proving their much loved games have severe faults. The favorite excuse in the old thread was "but it is just a prerelease build!" "it will be fixed in release!!"  well, it is released already...   and all the same problems are still there. Suddenly, it's like those people never said that...  😂

You don't care about all these issues?...     FINE, nobody is forcing you to enter this thread. Direct insults, strawman fallacies, name-calling and personal mockery are just the tools of the losers in the discussion. 🤷‍♂️ 

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3 hours ago, jesped said:

The old thread was closed for the weird reason of being "clogged", go figure...   the main problem of that thread was all the people that were constantly disregarding its own existence with the "it's just a prerelease build"  "all will be fixed at release"...     well, the game IS released now...  and mainly EVERYTHING reported in that thread is valid still. All the bugs and problems are still in the game at this moment.

Will they be fixed? we don't know about that, because devs are too cautious to commit in public.

If there is a patch tomorrow, we don't know what is addressed in it (if anything) regarding these problems with visuals.

The old thread was not clogged… just the most viewed and followed…

and i suppose that if was named ''why grid2019 looks so stunning'',  instead to close it, they would have already pinned on the top page :classic_biggrin:

 

and i don't think any patch will going to fix graphics, trees etc... they will fix hopefully loading errors and something directly related to controls and adjustments (and major bugs)…  

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34 minutes ago, jesped said:

You mistake "hate" with "disappointment". I'm a CG 3D artist myself, so...   yes, I'm sure interested in graphics. But it is not like a personal mania of mine:

https://www.cinemablend.com/games/75-Gamers-Say-Graphics-Do-Matter-Purchasing-Game-64659.html
image.png
https://kotaku.com/yes-technical-details-are-important-in-video-games-1507704558
image.png


And yes, I am playing the game on a 100" screen.

100" screen....theres part of your problem right there. What resolution you running the game at on that size of screen?

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1 minute ago, FLAW3D said:

100" screen....theres part of your problem right there. 

I play ALL games on the same screen so...  no.

And most of these problems were already reported before release, just watching YT videos on a 55" TV, which is a pretty standard size.

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13 minutes ago, FlashStealth said:

The old thread was not clogged… just the most viewed and followed…

and i suppose that if was named ''why grid2019 looks so stunning'',  instead to close it, they would have already pinned on the top page :classic_biggrin:

Well, that too...   😄

 

13 minutes ago, FlashStealth said:

and i don't think any patch will going to fix graphics, trees etc... they will fix hopefully loading errors and something directly related to controls and adjustments (and major bugs)…  

I don't either. But in all honesty, I would love for Codemasters to prove me wrong and to release a patch fixing at least the most annoying of these issues: LOD with trees and shadows, tonemapping, ...  at least make those settings configurable in the .xml config file, so they don't have to take "official responsibility" for messing with them and the performance.

 

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29 minutes ago, jesped said:

Well, that too...   😄

 

I don't either. But in all honesty, I would love for Codemasters to prove me wrong and to release a patch fixing at least the most annoying of these issues: LOD with trees and shadows, tonemapping, ...  at least make those settings configurable in the .xml config file, so they don't have to take "official responsibility" for messing with them and the performance.

 

i would love too if they will make a mega patch with everything inside… 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, lastbreath said:

As far as I understand, the game was released for everyone, yes?

So, was there first day patch?

People are playing "early access". Official launch date is 11th, tomorrow. So maybe the patch drops tomorrow.

 

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3 hours ago, jesped said:

Driveclub is a game from 2014 that didn't have a patch for the Pro. GRID 2019 is a game that looks a generation inferior to Driveclub. This is a thread for GRAPHICS DISCUSSION, go to another thread if you are not interested in DISCUSSING GRAPHICS... 🤷‍♂️

You mean the "clowns" that were pointing out the shame of having these fake nonsensical reflections in 2019?


When mostly all games in the past 5-10 years have been featuring proper reflections. FFS, we even had cars properly reflected on the wet asphalt in F1 2001 PS2Two generations ago 😂
 


Or these proper realistic reflections in F1 2019, from the same Codemasters, using the exact same EGO engine v4...  🤦‍♂️

But maybe proper reflections are a thing of the past that is not important at all, and that's why Raytracing is the new boom and gaming enthusiasts are spending $1000+ on top tier GPU's to have RT GI and Raytraced Reflections everywhere. 😂

You seem like someone who knows a little about what they're talking about. Obviously then, you know that almost all games use a combination of cube maps and SSR. Barely any race games rely entirely on SSR. Grid uses a cubemap/SSR combination. Yes, those cube maps could better designed to fit into the world but that's an artistic issue and not a graphical limitation.

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2 hours ago, jesped said:

I play ALL games on the same screen so...  no.

And most of these problems were already reported before release, just watching YT videos on a 55" TV, which is a pretty standard size.

Not all games have great AA so so you must play alot of games this gen that look **** on a 100" unless you have a GTX 2080 ? What resolution are you playing the game at? Also if you think the AA is rubbish at 55" your making it look twice as bad by playing GRID on that screen. 

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6 hours ago, andmcq said:

You seem like someone who knows a little about what they're talking about. Obviously then, you know that almost all games use a combination of cube maps and SSR. Barely any race games rely entirely on SSR. Grid uses a cubemap/SSR combination. Yes, those cube maps could better designed to fit into the world but that's an artistic issue and not a graphical limitation.

SSR stands for Screen Space Reflections. It is limited by what is on the screen. If it is out of the screen it can't be reflected. It is not perfect but it usually works well. And it isn't the only method of doing proper reflections.

GRID wet asphalt does not reflect what is on the screen...   neither cars nor the tracks, scenery, buildings, trees, crowds...   nothing. There is only an anisotropic reflection of the cars lights, and then some weird fantasy environment maps that don't match the track they are in. At all. 

It is not a limitation of the EGO engine. The F1 team has been using proper reflections since 10 years ago or so, and I don't think their games have a much higher hardware requirements.

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50 minutes ago, FLAW3D said:

Not all games have great AA so so you must play alot of games this gen that look **** on a 100" unless you have a GTX 2080 ? What resolution are you playing the game at? Also if you think the AA is rubbish at 55" your making it look twice as bad by playing GRID on that screen. 

I use a OC'd 1080 non ti, nothing too fancy, and usually play at supersampled 2k.

Sure, not all games have great AA. For example, it is one of the greatest flaws of Forza Horizon 4, using still only the old MSAA. Or in WRC8, which is pretty bad.

But the thing with GRID 2019 is that it is much worse than the previous generation and 5 years older GRID Autosport, which is baffling. I don't know of any other case with a game in a franchise doing that.

It is not a question of using lesser quality displays to avoid noticing the problems, but a question of Codemasters fixing them. For everybody. For example, I don't care that much for the multiplayer part, but if there is people complaining about problems there, I don't go shouting "fudge that! who cares?", I assume that's important to them and must be fixed too, even if it doesn't make any difference for me.

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4 minutes ago, Leo Natan said:

Ahahahaha, this is hilarious! 😂😂 This is such a failure.

And it's coming from the IGN channel! They must have not gotten the cheque on time. 😂

Comments on the video are a really fun read. 🤣

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Looks like this thread is degenerating into arguments and unhelpful comments like the old one was, so I'll just drop this here: 

- If you'd like to actually help with this subject there is something specific you would like us to investigate and try to address, the Technical Assistance area has all the guidelines you need to do so

- For every video posted of graphics/visuals not performing at their optimum, there'll be another video where it does. So much depends on the settings and hardware each player chooses to run. 

- Every piece of constructive feedback on the Forums is taken on board and considered for assessment by the team; we've already locked in some improvements/fixes thanks to the process we have in place

Thanks 🙂

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11 minutes ago, ChrisGrovesMCM said:

- For every video posted of graphics/visuals not performing at their optimum, there'll be another video where it does. So much depends on the settings and hardware each player chooses to run.

Hello,

This comes off as somewhat tone deaf. It's not about picking one video where the game looks good, vs picking one video where the game does not look good. The point of threads like this is to increase the overall graphics bar, to at least the levels of Codemasters' own games, Dirt 2.0 and F1. As with any game using common real time rendering algorithms, there are artifacts and blemishes. The point is to reduce those as much as possible.

BTW, in the video you posted, most of the issues that have been reported are also apparent (but hidden a bit better due to darker scenes in cloudy weather:

  • Shadows are low resolution until 1-2 meters from the car
  • Some shadows are not rendered until 1-2 meters from the car
  • Trees and general track details are lacking beyond 1-2 meters
  • No tonemapping when the car enters the tunnel

Those are issues inherent to the implementation and usage of the engine that Grid 2019 uses, and no video, no matter how carefully picked and flattering, will hide.

Thanks

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37 minutes ago, ChrisGrovesMCM said:

Looks like this thread is degenerating into arguments and unhelpful comments like the old one was

Good, but instead of locking the thread, the fair thing to do would be to warn the people that are using name-calling and personal attacks, instead of using their behavior as an excuse to give them the satisfaction of closing the thread, which looks exactly what they are aiming for in the first place.
 

37 minutes ago, ChrisGrovesMCM said:

- For every video posted of graphics/visuals not performing at their optimum, there'll be another video where it does. So much depends on the settings and hardware each player chooses to run. 

It's not a question of optimum performance by the user's side, it's a question of bugs and problems with the game. The video you post from Shirrako is only good hiding them better in all that mist and rain, but all the same problems reported here are there too. And this video has noticeable stutter/framedrops in many places too.
I'm not going to post another wall of captures, plenty of my previous captures are already from Shirrako's 4K videos.

And all versions should be considered, not just PC Ultra. Not everybody can throw $1000+ to play on PC at 4K60, and there's plenty of people with base PS4 and XB1 S still.
These are not "choices" from the customers, but the consoles on the market. That's why it makes sense to compare those versions with the competition on the same hardware, like we did with Driveclub and GT Sport in this thread.
 

37 minutes ago, ChrisGrovesMCM said:

- Every piece of constructive feedback on the Forums is taken on board and considered for assessment by the team; we've already locked in some improvements/fixes thanks to the process we have in place

Thanks 🙂

Thank you, that's great to hear. I sincerely hope you can fix and improve the game at least in the most noticeable problems. Some things doesn't require a great amount of work, just the decision of doing them.

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14 minutes ago, Leo Natan said:

Those are issues inherent to the implementation and usage of the engine that Grid 2019 uses, and no video, no matter how carefully picked and flattering, will hide.

As I'm sure you understand, addressing topics like graphics is rarely a 'flick a switch and it's fixed' deal. Nevertheless, rest assured it's being tracked to see if and how improvements can be made down the line. 👍

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Just now, ChrisGrovesMCM said:

As I'm sure you understand, addressing topics like graphics is rarely a 'flick a switch and it's fixed' deal. Nevertheless, rest assured it's being tracked to see if and how improvements can be made down the line. 👍

Thank you 👍
I am a software developer, I fully understand that at this point, it is harder to make changes. My criticism is for the development process and why the issues are there in the first place. The engine is better capable. This fascinates me, but alas, I understand why there will never be transparency on this topic from the development team.

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11 minutes ago, ChrisGrovesMCM said:

What's up? 

Just clarifying things up:

If: conditional. So maybe not.
Can be: So maybe cannot be.
Down the line: So no for now.

I understand not stating a list of commitments or timeframes, but honestly, it doesn't sound hopeful.

Sounds more like a good explanation of why not a single specific has been addressed yet.

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3 minutes ago, jesped said:

Sounds more like a good explanation of why not a single specific has been addressed yet.

I refer you back to my to my original comment: "As I'm sure you understand, addressing topics like graphics is rarely a 'flick a switch and it's fixed' deal." 

10 minutes ago, jesped said:

why not a single specific has been addressed yet.

We've made steps to address player-reported topics already, which isn't bad going considering the game fully launched... today! 🙂 but we know there's plenty more to do, and I'm putting together updated reports all the time from feedback on all channels. 👍

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4 minutes ago, ChrisGrovesMCM said:

We've made steps to address player-reported topics already, which isn't bad going considering the game fully launched... today! 🙂 but we know there's plenty more to do, and I'm putting together updated reports all the time from feedback on all channels. 👍

Could you comment on which topics the team is focusing?

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The headlights on all cars look really bad. The rest of the car has high quality, but then the headlights are just a low-res texture. Is there some setting that I missed, that would either make the texture high-res, or even turn the lights into detailed 3D models?

Here are two examples of what I mean: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1885848115
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1886263241

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5 hours ago, ChrisGrovesMCM said:

I refer you back to my to my original comment: "As I'm sure you understand, addressing topics like graphics is rarely a 'flick a switch and it's fixed' deal." 

The original graphics discussion thread was started August 29. The only addressed specifics were the video in the original post having a bad color tone due to wrong hdr use and that rain conditions really affected cars' behavior. Beyond that, all the rest are still present and have not even been acknowledged as problems.

Sometimes, fixing things doesn't require a huge effort: like switching some bad tree models with better quality previous ones:
image.png

or "flick a switch" like changing  <texture_streaming sizeInMiB="2048" to "8192" in hardware_settings_config.xml, which seems to have fixed the annoying "HQ textures visibly loading in place" bug for me:
image.thumb.png.dd58def773b6a4d9ed56eae9b484fa86.png

Some important problems doesn't require a lot of work, like properly setting Eye Adaptation/Automatic Exposure/Tonemapping to fix those dark areas and burnt skies.
Or even adding much needed features like seat position adjustments and camera shaking effects (just copying what already was in GRID 2 and GRID Autosport would be enough).

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The most offending for me is the 1-2m aggressive LOD for geometry, textures and shadows. All the others I can live with (not a fan of SSR, to be honest), but those ones are just killing me. The rolling shadows in particular are an embarrassment for a modern engine. And why isn't there an option on PC to extend that further? 🤦‍♂️

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14 minutes ago, Ferrethead81 said:

I don’t know enough about it all to know if Grid 2008 was fantastic for its time, or if Grid 2019 is sub par. 

Probably a bit of both I guess. 

Grid was stunning looking for its time. The new one has double the amount of cars which will have a big effect. 

Maybe Codies can half the cars to 8 for those that want better graphics quickly as long as its an option. 

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I should do comparisons really but definitely (Think) I noticed a big difference after modifying some of the settings in the XML. However on my system it does use 8.2 GB VRAM now.

Still get 90+ fps (1080ti)

 

SMAA - true (Left taa still true)

SSRT_Shadows enabled - True

texture_streaming size - 4096

Motion blur - false

DoF - false

 

We really need a high resolution texture pack!

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7 hours ago, FLAW3D said:

Grid was stunning looking for its time. The new one has double the amount of cars which will have a big effect. 

Maybe Codies can half the cars to 8 for those that want better graphics quickly as long as its an option. 

That actually sounds promising. Just cut down the amount of cars if the engine can't handle it. Make it an option, to run 16 cars with the graphics as they are, or vs 8 other cars to make it look CONSIDERABLY better, with better framerates AND resolution on base consoles. I can't believe that the game barely runs over 720p in some stances! One thing is to have an aging hardware, other is not optimizing games to run decent at best!

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Same as usual: GRID 2019 has an oversaturated and cartoonish look.

And the quality difference in trees is abysmal:

image.thumb.png.7683ded9e8a5db8e9e3bfb9086ac6374.pngimage.thumb.png.56777432550d7dff350ef7c2dd8eb0c3.png

 

GRID Autosport's camera Shake and camera rolling on curves makes the gameplay feel more exciting, intense and realistic, simulating driver's movement inside the car:
image.png.67946087e3c00c2d04c1b1b682abfed8.pngimage.png.682cdeb9ce3170d574c43ae158881f5c.png
 

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