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[GRID 2019] Graphics Discussion - Why exactly it looks #LikeNoOther


jesped

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I think you've made your point clear @jesped.

Also, if you're going to post a lot of images, please host them on Imgur and drop a link, as dropping too many on the forum can cause longer loading times (particularly for mobile users).

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2 hours ago, jesped said:

"Those are good shots, but you can cherry pick good shots even from the worst looking games like rFactor. Specially from Replays (vast majority of yours), with all the DoF, amped Motion Blur and selective angles."

 

You can also cherry pick bad points on 'any' game by zooming in  😉 🤩
 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, torque99uk said:

You can also cherry pick bad points on 'any' game by zooming in  😉 🤩


Again...   your images were downsampled (from 4K) by the forum. Mine were non-scaled crops from your original sources...

Again...   This is exactly what you see during real gameplay, compared to 5 years old GRID Autosport. 4K uncompressed captures on both.
Exact same spots. No zooms, no Replays:

 

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1 hour ago, FLAW3D said:

If you dont like Codies games

I LOVE THEM that's why I can't watch what they are doing with great series. Players need in-game chat - they invite Alonso, players demand good damage - they license Ferrari, who is afraid of damage like fire, people expect next level of visuals - they make DX12 but with outdated graphics, people ask about story based career - they don't even bother about it... CMs demonstrate absolutely misunderstanding what players need. 

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Turning off TAA has helped mine look much better on screen though on the move. I understand others will not have this quality I have but I just wanted to show how the game looks just between different versions or even between photos.

I know there are some meshes showing, with some different LOD and tree detail but on the move you do not notice them much. Hopefully these can be worked on.

What is not mentioned much is how good the cars are especially the detailed interiors and how good it looks at night and rain on the move. 

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9 minutes ago, torque99uk said:

What is not mentioned much is how good the cars are especially the detailed interiors are and how good it looks at night and rain on the move. 

Agree, cars mostly look good. I already said so in the old graphics thread. Rain looks mostly good too. Not "Driveclub level" good, but good enough.
But cars look good on all games nowadays, they don't look better in GRID than in any of the competition.

And regarding night...


GT Sport even cast shadows from other cars...  on a $300 PS4 at 60fps:

image.png.553f79dd903264ed0ddae5ea38560b31.png

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25 minutes ago, torque99uk said:

@jesped Did you play on your set up and play through most the tracks/TOD or did you view it on another screen? As I see you mentioned that you saw it on Ultra? 👍

Its not the point about seeing it on ultra. The point is that the game looks hella rubbish (and runs only at 30fps, the mirror at like 5fps) on base consoles (see my own direct capture screenshots, that jesped also reposted), while the hardware is more then good enough to have way better visuals with better performance (60 fps), even in own Codemasters games like F1 2019. Its so bad that it actually detracts from the experience, on the city courses its even hard to see a turn coming up due to the blurryness.

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7 minutes ago, iekue said:

Its not the point about seeing it on ultra. The point is that the game looks hella rubbish (and runs only at 30fps) on base consoles (see my own direct capture screenshots, that jesped also reposted), while the hardware is good enough to have way better visuals with better performance (60 fps), even in own Codemasters games like F1 2019.

Hey?..In a discussion you have to discuss both sides (good and bad). I was asking @jesped which version he saw when it first came out as he mentioned he saw it on ultra. 👍

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32 minutes ago, torque99uk said:

@jesped Did you play on your set up and play through most the tracks/TOD or did you view it on another screen? As I see you mentioned that you saw it on Ultra? 👍

Yes. The captures I made comparing with GRID Autosport are from my system. I have a GTX 1080, and it can't maintain stable 60fps at 4K in GRID. Of course it does in GAS, even with MSAA 4X.

There you go...  how many people have a 1080ti, a 2080 or a 2070s to be able to play at stable 4K60?  like 1% of the total?  just those GPUs are double or even triple the price of a $370 PS4 Pro. Not even taking in count the rest of the good PC to go along with such a high end GPU: CPU, Memory, etc.

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I understand that and I know most have PC specs around those (I was lucky to find a good deal on a pre-built PC with this GPU in). I had the GTX before and also managed 4k at 60fps on GAS.  I also still have my xbox and PS4 (good value for these I agree). I just meant did you end up buying the game on release? 

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These two shots are from in game (not replay) and were in real time just stopping. My friend has the PS4 disc so I might ask to borrow it to see the difference, as you can see  I am pleased with the detail so far on my PC. I find on the move it all looks great, something that doesn't come across too well on some videos shown. 

 

@lastbreath I agree some tracks or time of day are not perfect and you did spot this well before release I know  😉 but for me after actually playing the game now for 17 hours 😁 (addicted to finishing the career matches) that the game play more than makes up for this.

GRID-2019-Screenshot-2019-10-13-08-58-41

GRID-2019-Screenshot-2019-10-13-08-59-15

p.s I wish there was a free cam and photo mode as I have seen so many opportunities for some awesome captures that I could have taken with shutter speed.

Just on a side note, the DOF option on Nvidia Ansel doesn't seem to be working on normal or Inverted. (No auto focus) I'm not sure if this is my end or the game.

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I just want to say that @jesped has done a really great job being thorough and precise when providing comparative, real life scenarios for us to see here.

Thank you for all your hard work, and I really hope that Codemasters employees will look through this thread and take the required action to ensure we don't have to make these kinds of comparisons to previous games in their own series, or the same engine again.

It's really quite staggering to launch Autosport again after playing G19 and seeing the sheer lack of quality not only in the graphics while in game, but in the menu and options as well.

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10 hours ago, torque99uk said:

Turning off TAA has helped mine look much better on screen though on the move. I understand others will not have this quality I have but I just wanted to show how the game looks just between different versions or even between photos.

I know there are some meshes showing, with some different LOD and tree detail but on the move you do not notice them much. Hopefully these can be worked on.

What is not mentioned much is how good the cars are especially the detailed interiors and how good it looks at night and rain on the move. 

Having watched the rest of the Gamersyde videos now the game looks great in motion which is the same conclusion as i came to yesterday. Its a good looking game in motion.

Tbh even your static shots look good.

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6 hours ago, andmcq said:

Yes, as I stated days ago, TAA is the problem with soft Tree graphics.

No TAA:
image.png.e78cdc3cf8abb0f72a260e942c7a4662.png
 

6 hours ago, andmcq said:

ps: don't listen to Jesped. He has no idea what he's talking about.

😂

On 10/8/2019 at 10:24 PM, andmcq said:

And half refresh mirrors too, lmao.

On 10/13/2019 at 1:19 AM, andmcq said:

Chromatic Aberration? I believe it's actually called Chromatic Abortion.

image.png.b2c57ecd542b77df8d093b169d166cad.png

On 10/10/2019 at 10:33 PM, andmcq said:

You seem like someone who knows a little about what they're talking about. Obviously then, you know that almost all games use a combination of cube maps and SSR. Barely any race games rely entirely on SSR. Grid uses a cubemap/SSR combination. Yes, those cube maps could better designed to fit into the world but that's an artistic issue and not a graphical limitation.

On 10/11/2019 at 11:04 AM, andmcq said:

IMO, Grid 2 is easily the best Grid game. By miles.

On 10/13/2019 at 12:57 AM, andmcq said:

Yeah, this was going to be a day one buy for me, but as the reviews started coming out I'm happy I held off. Seems very rushed and with Codies track record with this stuff, I doubt it's going to see any significant updates.

 

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13 minutes ago, Ak1504 said:

The game can look good especially in the night and rain... I also like that the spectators change clothing and stuff 🙂

GRID 2019 | All Time of Day Weather Options @ San Francisco

Great video, but I see the usual offenders. Noticeable aliasing, specially on the bridge:
image.png.8ede98d327b4ef960f535a36c832f13f.png

It is constantly vibrating, Very distracting.

And the blurry muddy textures, which we already compared with their better GRID Autosport counterparts:
 image.png.b0466def86993a341de89f1d93c70740.png


I totally agree with the spectators. These are the best crowds in any racing game so far, except they don't cast any shadows:
image.png.627ece8274889c74a41dd78acccebf9a.png


But why? what kind of logic made the GRID team give more priority to crowds in high numbers and high polygon counts over the much more visible vegetation and other track elements, or the shadows being drawed in front of your car or the very visible LOD swap?

Who decided that CPU and GPU power was better spent in having crowds with this quality over having better shadows, overall LOD and trees? 🤦‍♂️
image.png.aa6862c0d576d416a7687a2da0fee925.png 

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8 minutes ago, jesped said:

But why? what kind of logic made the GRID team give more priority to crowds in high numbers and high polygon counts over the much more visible vegetation and other track elements, or the shadows being drawed in front of your car or the very visible LOD swap?

Who decided that CPU and GPU power was better spent in having crowds with this quality over having better shadows, overall LOD and trees? 🤦‍♂️

Even if ridiculous amount of resources is spent on the crowd, who forgot PC gaming is about options, and thus, it should be possible to extend shadow and track LOD much further if the hardware allows it. 🙄🙄🤦‍♂️

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Pity they didn't disable the yellow bloom filter, but here it goes...


The camera shaking and movements makes you feel the weight of the car much more.

The windshield gets dirty. Another detail that is missing in GRID 2019.

image.png.6919fe58732ee89a6a62daa2c0410292.png

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3 minutes ago, Ak1504 said:

Sure but not everyone likes this shaky cam... But would be nice to have it as option...

Exactly. A slider from OFF to Very Strong, 0 to 5 or whatever.

The feature is already there in the code of both GRID 2 and Autosport... 🤷‍♂️

Many people are saying the same in the comments of these comparision videos.

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4 hours ago, jesped said:

what kind of logic made the GRID team give more priority to crowds in high numbers and high polygon counts over the much more visible vegetation and other track elements

I guess crowds were developing at the early stages, when they had enough time. But when deadline had been broken - everything got less priorities

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I'll just add my 2 cents. This is a fairly long thread already, so sorry if this has already been addressed!

 

My main issues with the graphics are as follows:

-Mipmapping is poorly implemented. Just load up the game and look at the Porsche on the start screen and see how long it takes to load the higher resolution textures in, especially the headlights

-Many post processing options missing from menus including texture filtering, MSAA, DOF effect, Bloom, Blur, lens effects

-No way to disable chromatic abberation even in XML files (I despise this effect!)

-Low LOD distance on many objects and no way to increase it (has already been mentioned)

I'd just like options please Codemasters!

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16 hours ago, FlashStealth said:

 

Imagine Grid2008 maxed without Yellow filter !

Its everything more balanced.

Grid2019 is not bad, compared look too much saturated. 

You can remove the yellow filter and remove the resolution cap from the OG GRID by doing the following:

 To disable Bloom and Blur effects;

 Go to Documents, Codemasters, GRID, hardwaresettings, and open the file "hardware_settings_config.xml" edit line:

 postprocess enabled="true" blur="true"

 to:

 postprocess enabled="false" blur="false"

To run in 1080p or higher;

Open file hardware_settings_restrictions.xml with notepad (copy to secondary location and remove read only from Properties first). Found in ...Program Files, Race Driver Grid, system, scroll down to the bottom and edit line:

res mem="270" maxWidth="1280"

 to

 res mem="4096" maxWidth="7000"

 

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8 minutes ago, BenRogue said:

You can remove the yellow filter and remove the resolution cap from the OG GRID by doing the following:

 To disable Bloom and Blur effects;

 Go to Documents, Codemasters, GRID, hardwaresettings, and open the file "hardware_settings_config.xml" edit line:

 postprocess enabled="true" blur="true"

 to:

 postprocess enabled="false" blur="false"

To run in 1080p or higher;

Open file hardware_settings_restrictions.xml with notepad (copy to secondary location and remove read only from Properties first). Found in ...Program Files, Race Driver Grid, system, scroll down to the bottom and edit line:

res mem="270" maxWidth="1280"

 to

 res mem="4096" maxWidth="7000"

 

Thanks a lot ! 

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Yikes. Just tried out the game and it looks terrible. Motion blur is horrendous (and I normally like motion blur) trees are just laughable (destroyerd like in DiRT series). Another dissapionting title from Codemasters after DiRT Rally 2.0 made my sell my steering wheel. They have no shame selling this game at full price with DLC's already planned. This year Codies lost all my goodwill. I won't purchase any CM title until they retire EGO and make a proper, content-rich game. Such a shame... 

@jesped you seem just as frustrated as I was when DR 2.0 dropped. DR 2.0 felt like it needed at least another 6 months in the oven. The tree issue goes as far as the first Dirt rally, and TAA is just as smeary as it was in february. EGO is on it's death bed.

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10 hours ago, Lawstorant said:

@jesped you seem just as frustrated as I was when DR 2.0 dropped. DR 2.0 felt like it needed at least another 6 months in the oven. The tree issue goes as far as the first Dirt rally, and TAA is just as smeary as it was in february. EGO is on it's death bed.

I wasn't as disappointed with DR2.0 as I am with GRID. It has its flaws too, but coming from Dirt 4, I think it was a good improvement. TAA is a controversial feature. Some people find it too blurry, but other people love it because it can totally remove all jaggies and it needs less GPU power than MSAA or SSAA. Not all TAA implementations are the same either. GRID's TAA is pretty bad, as many jaggies are still visible with it. I already posted it, but a very good example of TAA tech is the Alias Isolation free mod for Alien Isolation: 


Despite EGO not being the greatest engine, I don't think GRID's problems are related to it. F1 2019 uses the exact same version (EGO v4) and it looks great. All GRID's faults have to do with the development, with how they used it. The choices they made, both the artistic and technical choices. And all the cut stuff that was present in previous GRID's. Almost half the tracks of GRID Autosport. Lots of elements looking even worse. A lot less customizable options. There isn't even an option to disable Chromatic Aberration ffs, not even in the .xml config file. And of course not a moddable effects.xml like in previous games.

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14 hours ago, jesped said:

 

Interesting choice of comparison because what the clip fails to tell you is that Heat 4 on consoles comes with 'bonus features' which include multiple rendering issues, severe framerate drops, micro-stuttering and (in 'performance' mode) some quite horrific screen tearing. From my 6000+ laps of this game I could tell you stories that would send shivers up your spine and make you wish you were playing the game on the right 🙂

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1 hour ago, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

Interesting choice of comparison because what the clip fails to tell you is that Heat 4 on consoles comes with 'bonus features' which include multiple rendering issues, severe framerate drops, micro-stuttering and (in 'performance' mode) some quite horrific screen tearing. From my 6000+ laps of this game I could tell you stories that would send shivers up your spine and make you wish you were playing the game on the right 🙂

I really didn't know this game existed at all until you told me about it. 😂

I think they used the PC version for this comparision video. Is it 30fps or 60fps on consoles?

BTW, the dots pattern of the motion blur look good in motion. Makes it look much smoother than GRID's. Trees and sky, among other elements, look much better too.

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30 minutes ago, jesped said:

I really didn't know this game existed at all until you told me about it. 😂

I think they used the PC version for this comparision video. Is it 30fps or 60fps on consoles?

BTW, the dots pattern of the motion blur looks good in motion. Makes it look much smoother than GRID's. Trees and sky, among other elements, look much better too.

After thinking about it I'm going to retract my previous statement and say that the Heat 4 v Grid comparison is highly relevant....but for another reason. It is a perfect example of how if levels of immersion are of a high enough standard then performance (within reason) and/or visual quality can be overlooked to a certain degree - a point that anyone who has played a 40 car race around Daytona in Heat 4 will probably appreciate more than those who just see NASCAR as a driving round in circles for multiple hundreds of laps simulator. As has been clearly shown in this thread Grid doesn't really excel in the visuals department and when directly compared against the career/multiplayer aspects of Racedriver Grid and the depth of content in Autosport (games that it's supposed to be paying homage to) there's no real argument for strong gameplay credentials either so, unlike Heat 4, it's neither here nor there when trying to decide where it belongs.

Yes, although i'm pretty convinced Heat 4 will comfortably manage 60fps on X1X we're stuck with 30fps to maintain parity with XB1 so that's a bit disappointing. As for that weird dotted pattern thing you're absolutely right about how it smooths the motion blur but i'd still sell my soul to get rid of it because it looks real ugly. Until then......cockpit view :classic_tongue:   

And finally a confession... It was only this morning that I realised GAS is actually Grid Autosport lol... I honestly though it was an obscure PC game that i'd never heard of (well, they have a game called FUEL so why not GAS) and that is the excuse i'm sticking with 🙂

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4 minutes ago, FLAW3D said:

Okay graphics guys how is the HDR in this game? Oddly i have not seen you guys discussing it.

For some reason it is not compatible with my projector's HDR. Even if I force it in the .xml config file, once the game starts it disables it automatically. There are other weird problems with GRID video settings too, like it stupidly trying to force the game to start in the secondary monitor when nothing was changed. Or resetting the resolution to a different setting that you chose...   these are problems that old Codemasters titles had and were fixed. Now they are back again in 2019. Great. 🤦‍♂️

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