FFB - thoughts and impressions

[Buckwilder 491]

Love the game, let me get that out of the way. That said, the FFB is underwhelming.

I am playing on XB1X - and using a Thrustmaster TX wheel.

No real sense of tire slip/grip or ‘bite’. Turning up the SAT to 150 has very little effect. Additionally, the suspension FFB is too light on effects also. I can barely feel the rumble strips, and suspension compression on the jumps in San Francisco is completely absent. Turing the suspension setting up to 150 has no appreciable effect. 

I don’t expect the FFB to be as detailed as a true racing sim, as this game caters to a much wider audience and less serious crowd - but I thought the FFB would be commensurate to at least the likes of Forza Horizon...

In its current state it is very much playable - and I am still having fun, but I sincerely hope the code is further developed to make the FFB detail a little more present and lively.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Buckwilder

[tvvang 21]

Seems a common issue with all CM games

[FLAW3D 477]

Yeah it's a Codies game, We just have to face it right now that they are lagging behind alot of racing devs when it comes to FFB. It took a long time to get anything decent from Dirt 2.0 FFB wise this could be the same. 

Out of interest Buck, compared to Horizon is this more arcade would you say or about par? 

[UP100 473]

Let's note that FFB can be designed in various different ways. With DR2.0 they went with the experts and simulated only forces that would be felt through the wheel as far as I understood, and not what the people actually think is realistic.

So basically it could mean that not all forces you'd feel on your arms are simulated as they wouldn't necessarily come from the wheel, but from other forces.

[Buckwilder 491]

20 minutes ago, UP100 said:

Let's note that FFB can be designed in various different ways. With DR2.0 they went with the experts and simulated only forces that would be felt through the wheel as far as I understood, and not what the people actually think is realistic.

So basically it could mean that not all forces you'd feel on your arms are simulated as they wouldn't necessarily come from the wheel, but from other forces.

Yes, but when using a racing wheel on a video game the only senses we have available are haptic (feel through the wheel). My criticism is that tire slip and suspension load are not currently felt through the wheel - which in most other racing games they are. There is no sense of pneumatic trail, or grip limits. It’s just SAT until the tires break loose and then nothing. A force (low level vibration that increases proportional to the level of slip), would do well to inform the driver when he/she is at ‘threshold’. Additionally, suspension geometry and camber/load should be met with increased turning resistance, as the tire loads and the suspension compresses - the effects of inertia  make the wheel harder to turn. Of course other factors play in - speed, caster, surface conditions, weight balance and distribution...but I would be happy with a force that simply indicates load and slip through SAT and vibration, respectively.

[Buckwilder 491]

51 minutes ago, FLAW3D said:

Yeah it's a Codies game, We just have to face it right now that they are lagging behind alot of racing devs when it comes to FFB. It took a long time to get anything decent from Dirt 2.0 FFB wise this could be the same. 

Out of interest Buck, compared to Horizon is this more arcade would you say or about par? 

On par more or less. The higher powered vehicles are nuanced when you remove the assists, provides a good mix of fun and challenge. Personally, I find it easy to drive most cars after coming over to this from DiRT Rally 2.0.

I will say the production value is amazing, the graphics are incredible and the sound is out of this world good. 

Like I said above - so far the game is awesome, a lot of fun and tons of potential - if only they can fine tune the FFB experience. It doesn’t need to be ground breaking, just ameliorated to inform the player of what forces are happening and when they are happening. 

It does feel better than DR2.0 on tarmac, that much I can attest to...save for the lack of suspension feedback, which needs some more resolution and panache.

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Buckwilder

[watzcoc 208]

4 hours ago, Buckwilder said:

Love the game, let me get that out of the way. That said, the FFB is underwhelming.

I am playing on XB1X - and using a Thrustmaster TX wheel.

No real sense of tire slip/grip or ‘bite’. Turning up the SAT to 150 has very little effect. Additionally, the suspension FFB is too light on effects also. I can barely feel the rumble strips, and suspension compression on the jumps in San Francisco is completely absent. Turing the suspension setting up to 150 has no appreciable effect. 

I don’t expect the FFB to be as detailed as a true racing sim, as this game caters to a much wider audience and less serious crowd - but I thought the FFB would be commensurate to at least the likes of Forza Horizon...

In its current state it is very much playable - and I am still having fun, but I sincerely hope the code is further developed to make the FFB detail a little more present and lively.

FFB reminds me of how DR 2.0 was on release, no attention paid to FFB, AGAIN.....

 

It's way too light even GRID 2014 has better weight and effects playing on XB1 via backwards compatibility

Edited October 8, 2019 by watzcoc

[Buckwilder 491]

56 minutes ago, watzcoc said:

FFB reminds me of how DR 2.0 was on release, no attention paid to FFB, AGAIN.....

 

It's way too light even GRID 2014 has better weight and effects playing on XB1 via backwards compatibility

Yes it is lacking weight in the wheel for sure.

They will address it I’m sure (I hope).

[millertheman 5]

The ffb is non existent. There is no difference if you set the sliders at 0 or all the way up to 150. No wheel weight no vibration no centering force. I only hope this can be patched as all the previews spoke of the excellent ffb on wheel but as it stands sadly this is garbage and has killed on day one what could be a great game. I have been racing with wheels for many years and trust me there are no ffb signals coming through my wheel. 

Please fix 

Playing on Thrust master tx Xbox one by the way

[Buckwilder 491]

1 hour ago, millertheman said:

The ffb is non existent. There is no difference if you set the sliders at 0 or all the way up to 150. No wheel weight no vibration no centering force. I only hope this can be patched as all the previews spoke of the excellent ffb on wheel but as it stands sadly this is garbage and has killed on day one what could be a great game. I have been racing with wheels for many years and trust me there are no ffb signals coming through my wheel. 

Please fix 

Playing on Thrust master tx Xbox one by the way

Welcome to the forums 🙂

Helluva first post, lol

I too am using the TX on XB1...and yes the FFB is poorly integrated. I can not determine if it is a widespread issue or just TX-related. I am think the latter perhaps, as I saw a vid lately from Jimmy Broadbent where he used the wheel, and in San Francisco when he hit the jumps the landing would make his wheel shudder. On my wheel, nothing. 

If I know Codie’s, they will fix it, but it may take a little time.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Buckwilder

[Buckwilder 491]

So after some more time on the rig tonight, I will change my stance if only slightly. I would not say the FFB needs a complete overhauling...it is definitely there as far as SAT, though perhaps not ramped enough. At 150 I feel like it clips a little while still not being indicative of true ‘load’. That and it makes correcting oversteer a little too difficult. The missing elements primarily; are suspension feel and tire slip. Put simply, they are understated (muted), and not granular enough. 

Given the title and target market, I am a realist in what is possible or likely - that said, if they could improve the aforementioned elements by even a notch or two I would call it a win. Just give us a little more haptic feedback and FFB saturation and that would be good enough I think.

[Pullblox 0]

43 minutes ago, Buckwilder said:

So after some more time on the rig tonight, I will change my stance if only slightly. I would not say the FFB needs a complete overhauling...it is definitely there as far as SAT, though perhaps not ramped enough. At 150 I feel like it clips a little while still not being indicative of true ‘load’. That and it makes correcting oversteer a little too difficult. The missing elements primarily; are suspension feel and tire slip. Put simply, they are understated (muted), and not granular enough. 

Given the title and target market, I am a realist in what is possible or likely - that said, if they could improve the aforementioned elements by even a notch or two I would call it a win. Just give us a little more haptic feedback and FFB saturation and that would be good enough I think.

You play on thrustmaster tx? 

[Buckwilder 491]

1 hour ago, Pullblox said:

You play on thrustmaster tx? 

Yes, on the TX. 

[Pullblox 0]

43 minutes ago, Buckwilder said:

Yes, on the TX. 

How you calibrate your wheel? 

My TX work well in game, but I do calibrate wheel I see warning massage what my wheel not calibrate. 

[millertheman 5]

3 hours ago, Buckwilder said:

So after some more time on the rig tonight, I will change my stance if only slightly. I would not say the FFB needs a complete overhauling...it is definitely there as far as SAT, though perhaps not ramped enough. At 150 I feel like it clips a little while still not being indicative of true ‘load’. That and it makes correcting oversteer a little too difficult. The missing elements primarily; are suspension feel and tire slip. Put simply, they are understated (muted), and not granular enough. 

Given the title and target market, I am a realist in what is possible or likely - that said, if they could improve the aforementioned elements by even a notch or two I would call it a win. Just give us a little more haptic feedback and FFB saturation and that would be good enough I think.

Thanks for the input 

Strange thing when I went back to the game after testing my wheel on fh4 I was suddenly getting some feeling through the wheel. My tx had changed its dor to the 360 degrees setting so when I calibrated in grid I was running 350 dor lock to lock and it was better. Not particularly strong but definitely getting some ffb through the wheel.

Out of interest what settings you running in game and what dor you using?

[Ronnie2108 0]

For me the ffb feels like it is reversed, from center it is hevy and if i turn the wheel further it gets more loose.

Fanatec csl elite

[FLAW3D 477]

18 hours ago, watzcoc said:

FFB reminds me of how DR 2.0 was on release, no attention paid to FFB, AGAIN.....

 

 

That's worrying, DR 2.0 had dreadful FFB on release. 

[ChrisGrovesMCM 730]

On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 2:11 PM, Buckwilder said:

Love the game, let me get that out of the way. That said, the FFB is underwhelming.

I am playing on XB1X - and using a Thrustmaster TX wheel.

No real sense of tire slip/grip or ‘bite’. Turning up the SAT to 150 has very little effect. Additionally, the suspension FFB is too light on effects also. I can barely feel the rumble strips, and suspension compression on the jumps in San Francisco is completely absent. Turing the suspension setting up to 150 has no appreciable effect. 

I don’t expect the FFB to be as detailed as a true racing sim, as this game caters to a much wider audience and less serious crowd - but I thought the FFB would be commensurate to at least the likes of Forza Horizon...

In its current state it is very much playable - and I am still having fun, but I sincerely hope the code is further developed to make the FFB detail a little more present and lively.

Hi there - if anyone is seeing a specific FFB issue with their setup, please feel free to use the Technical Assistance page to post your feedback, following the guidelines, and we'll do all we can to investigate. Thanks! 

[Buckwilder 491]

8 hours ago, millertheman said:

Thanks for the input 

Strange thing when I went back to the game after testing my wheel on fh4 I was suddenly getting some feeling through the wheel. My tx had changed its dor to the 360 degrees setting so when I calibrated in grid I was running 350 dor lock to lock and it was better. Not particularly strong but definitely getting some ffb through the wheel.

Out of interest what settings you running in game and what dor you using?

Leaving wheel at 900 DOR and using Soft Lock feature. 

360 DOR is to small for me (unless we’re talking open wheel cars). Most vehicles will become twitchy and over-responsive with narrow DOR. I like having the DOR set to actual value when possible. In Rally, I hard lock at 540 DOR, but road racing doesn’t involve nearly as much counter steering.

Generally, and in my experience - FFB in most games becomes better the more DOR you allow, the feedback can be communicated through a greater range of degrees as steering and suspension loads undergo changes on the spectrum from turn-in, suspension load and exit/release/weight shift.

These all affect FFB, and by narrowing your DOR you are in essence ‘bottlenecking’ your available range of forces - as they become ‘on’ or ‘off’ instead being experienced in a 1:1 or linear fashion.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Buckwilder

[isamu99 0]

Hmm, thanks for the heads up on the FFB. Guess i will wait until a patch is issued before I start playing this game. My Bodnar doesn't like exposing itself to games with lackluster FFB.

[Buckwilder 491]

9 hours ago, Pullblox said:

How you calibrate your wheel? 

My TX work well in game, but I do calibrate wheel I see warning massage what my wheel not calibrate. 

The red exclamation mark means you have not calibrated the wheel. Press A button once you have highlighted the ‘Calibrate Device’ option as you captured in the screen shot above- to enter Calibration mode, then follow the prompts. Once you have completed the process, that exclamation mark should go away.

 

[Pullblox 0]

1 hour ago, Buckwilder said:

The red exclamation mark means you have not calibrated the wheel. Press A button once you have highlighted the ‘Calibrate Device’ option as you captured in the screen shot above- to enter Calibration mode, then follow the prompts. Once you have completed the process, that exclamation mark should go away.

 

Thx. Yesterday I complete calibration. When I do calibrate my fault was binding "handbrake" on button "B".

[slthree 0]

Watch "GRID 2019 - Part 2 - Starting Over" on YouTube

The reason I'm attaching this video is because he says that when you have driving aids on it mutes the forced feedback. he experienced better force feedback with the driving AIDS off.

Outside of that, it seems like a balanced demonstration of the game. He has a very calm style and it's pretty clear he's fair

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by slthree

[millertheman 5]

On 10/9/2019 at 3:57 PM, Buckwilder said:

Leaving wheel at 900 DOR and using Soft Lock feature. 

360 DOR is to small for me (unless we’re talking open wheel cars). Most vehicles will become twitchy and over-responsive with narrow DOR. I like having the DOR set to actual value when possible. In Rally, I hard lock at 540 DOR, but road racing doesn’t involve nearly as much counter steering.

Generally, and in my experience - FFB in most games becomes better the more DOR you allow, the feedback can be communicated through a greater range of degrees as steering and suspension loads undergo changes on the spectrum from turn-in, suspension load and exit/release/weight shift.

These all affect FFB, and by narrowing your DOR you are in essence ‘bottlenecking’ your available range of forces - as they become ‘on’ or ‘off’ instead being experienced in a 1:1 or linear fashion.

Yeah I think the 360° degree context was lost in my rant 😂 I meant that the feedback was suddenly there after getting fixed at 360 when exiting fh4. Running 900 now and done firm ware update on tx wheel and it's working much better - ffb weak but definitely there now. Hope they dial it up but enjoying game now

[Buckwilder 491]

@millertheman

Glad to hear it 👍

I really...really (did I mention really?), hope they step up the FFB, and add seat adjustability so I can drive in cockpit view. Then the game would be a total slam dunk for me. 

Targeting controller users as the primary and leaving wheel users in the cold seems wrong in this day and age. A major contingent of gamers on racing titles use driving hardware nowadays, so as to why so many settings were omitted with FFB, as well as the overall feel of things in their current state and why it is so anemic - I just don’t understand.

Please CM - let’s get some detailed FFB and soon!