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Question on Braking

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Question

What is your braking distance per corner.

What is your per track.

What is the maximum corner speed.

Hopefully this will help all newbies like me get quicker.

At present I normally look to break around 100m depending on track but would like more information.

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It totally depends on the corner.

I can’t think off the top of my head of any corners on any tracks where i brake before the 100m board, but there are many on every track where you can brake later, and many where you might brake this early but not as hard as you would for others (for various reasons).

Are there any particular corners you think you could improve?

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F1 cars in-game are able to slow down from ~350 km/h to ~90 km/h within 125 m. These values come from Italy Time Trial in Turn 1. This is what you call a hard braking zone because the "amount" of speed you reduce per meter is high compared to most other corners on the calender. Depending on the nature of the corner (tight hairpin/tight hairpin followed by a corner in the opposite direction/corner combinations like suzuka first sector/long corner like parabolica in monza/long corner after long corner, high speed corner like spoon in suzuka) you will always want to reduce the speed for the corner as much as possible while still maintaining enough speed for the fastest possible exit. Most people call this the "slow-in-fast-out" method. Now although it is technically true, in reality you will always want to go fast-in-fast-out, carrying the maximum possible speed through a corner and its exit. But again, it depends on the corner you are going through. In most corner combinations you will want to go slow-in-fast-out because you have to open up a radius for the next imminent turn. I always suggest for starters the "slow-in-fast-out" because it is the easiest way to learn cornering before trying fast-in-fast-out. Take your time and practice as much as possible.

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4 hours ago, kalamazoo123 said:

It totally depends on the corner.

I can’t think off the top of my head of any corners on any tracks where i brake before the 100m board, but there are many on every track where you can brake later, and many where you might brake this early but not as hard as you would for others (for various reasons).

Are there any particular corners you think you could improve?

Yep. Monza T1 is generally before the 100m just to make sure the car is settled.

Hygradeb, brake pressure and bias play a big part. If you have bias high at 58 or 60, you can brake very late, but your trail braking suffers.

If you have it at 54 or even 52 on some corners, you're stopping distance suffers, but the car will be more stable while trailing off. 

55 is a good general bias with 85 pressure. Some go 80 some upper 80s. 

Downshifting plays a part, also. Do it smoothly rather than spamming the downshifts like a lot of crackheads you see online.

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When I was learning to drive with ABS off I noticed something weird and unrealistic. Hope it was just me! Whenever I slammed the brakes too hard after a straight I locked up but it never affected my actual stopping distance or the cars direction. I experimented to the extreme by deliberately using flashback and taking the same corner over and over either cleanly or with 100 metres of lock up. Didn't matter how I braked or locked as long as I was pointing straight the car never spun round once and always took exactly the same distance to stop. Of course you have to stop the locking before you turn or else you won't actually be turning lol but it seemed silly. If the rears lock you should notice the rear slide out and try to pass the front but nope car just get heading in dead straight line. 

Once again if I'm being an idiot please let me know but I thought this was very unrealistic. If you lock your brakes (apart from a huge non existent flat spot compared to irl) then you lose traction on the tires so should be braking less efficiently and take further to stop. I tested this in both 2018 and the 2019 beta and had the same results. It's as if skidding tires had the same grip as normal. Not even modeled? 

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Yeah fair point on Monza turn 1. I do brake at about 120m there.

With lockups i agree it doesn’t really cost you anything in regards distance and it probably should, it does unsettle the car though and if you’re not dead straight it’s hard to control.

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5 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

When I was learning to drive with ABS off I noticed something weird and unrealistic. Hope it was just me! Whenever I slammed the brakes too hard after a straight I locked up but it never affected my actual stopping distance or the cars direction. I experimented to the extreme by deliberately using flashback and taking the same corner over and over either cleanly or with 100 metres of lock up. Didn't matter how I braked or locked as long as I was pointing straight the car never spun round once and always took exactly the same distance to stop. Of course you have to stop the locking before you turn or else you won't actually be turning lol but it seemed silly. If the rears lock you should notice the rear slide out and try to pass the front but nope car just get heading in dead straight line. 

Once again if I'm being an idiot please let me know but I thought this was very unrealistic. If you lock your brakes (apart from a huge non existent flat spot compared to irl) then you lose traction on the tires so should be braking less efficiently and take further to stop. I tested this in both 2018 and the 2019 beta and had the same results. It's as if skidding tires had the same grip as normal. Not even modeled? 

It should definitely take longer to stop when skidding vs braking at the threshold. So year, very unrealistic!

Locking up should eat tire life too, but I dont know if that is coded here or not.

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17 hours ago, DaleRossi said:

It should definitely take longer to stop when skidding vs braking at the threshold. So year, very unrealistic!

Locking up should eat tire life too, but I dont know if that is coded here or not.

Nar locking up & getting flat spot or taking extra life from the tyres dont work...

I found a old training show on YouTube which I just started watch...

Driver 101 I sure it's called, it's for real. Racing driving but I guess the basic still apply to a half made sim.

Great feedback everyone

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So you adjust your braking per corner?

Do you adjust braking to front our back when tyre wear drops as well?

On 10/11/2019 at 1:10 PM, MrGhostO1O said:

F1 cars in-game are able to slow down from ~350 km/h to ~90 km/h within 125 m. These values come from Italy Time Trial in Turn 1. This is what you call a hard braking zone because the "amount" of speed you reduce per meter is high compared to most other corners on the calender. Depending on the nature of the corner (tight hairpin/tight hairpin followed by a corner in the opposite direction/corner combinations like suzuka first sector/long corner like parabolica in monza/long corner after long corner, high speed corner like spoon in suzuka) you will always want to reduce the speed for the corner as much as possible while still maintaining enough speed for the fastest possible exit. Most people call this the "slow-in-fast-out" method. Now although it is technically true, in reality you will always want to go fast-in-fast-out, carrying the maximum possible speed through a corner and its exit. But again, it depends on the corner you are going through. In most corner combinations you will want to go slow-in-fast-out because you have to open up a radius for the next imminent turn. I always suggest for starters the "slow-in-fast-out" because it is the easiest way to learn cornering before trying fast-in-fast-out. Take your time and practice as much as possible.

I read or watch a video talking about hard breaking forgot who by.

I Ion't use assist bar corner racing line and that will soon stop.

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You can adjust it per corner, but it gets pretty busy. Find a general bias you like. 55 or 56 maybe and if there is an awkward trail brake corner, lower it down a click for that.

Bahrain comes to mind with the off camber left going into a straight where you really need a 52 or so bias for that one.

But since they decided to add a very unrealistic ERS management, crucial things like adjusting optimal diff and brakes during a lap have to take a back seat.

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The best way to learn cornering is the use the braking lines and heed the recommened caution and braking zones.  Then remove them after about a week and note your improvement.  Keep repeating this cycle until you're a master corner braker! 

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16 hours ago, DaleRossi said:

You can adjust it per corner, but it gets pretty busy. Find a general bias you like. 55 or 56 maybe and if there is an awkward trail brake corner, lower it down a click for that.

Bahrain comes to mind with the off camber left going into a straight where you really need a 52 or so bias for that one.

But since they decided to add a very unrealistic ERS management, crucial things like adjusting optimal diff and brakes during a lap have to take a back seat.

Yeah adjusting brake balance for certain corners is something you see drivers doing. ERS management like Esports drivers is just insane and totally unrealistic. How they're going to tell Esports drivers they could drive IRL....oh wait, they don't! 🙂

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5 hours ago, steviejay69 said:

Yeah adjusting brake balance for certain corners is something you see drivers doing. ERS management like Esports drivers is just insane and totally unrealistic. How they're going to tell Esports drivers they could drive IRL....oh wait, they don't! 🙂

Lmao

... winner shows up at the track to drive a real car. He then throws a fit because he actually has to sit in the car rather than on top of it.  "This is so fake. In the game, we can sit on top of the car."

 

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2 hours ago, DaleRossi said:

Lmao

... winner shows up at the track to drive a real car. He then throws a fit because he actually has to sit in the car rather than on top of it.  "This is so fake. In the game, we can sit on top of the car."

This is actually me with my T-cam assist! They might have to rename the monkey seat 🙂

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2 hours ago, DaleRossi said:

Lmao

... winner shows up at the track to drive a real car. He then throws a fit because he actually has to sit in the car rather than on top of it.  "This is so fake. In the game, we can sit on top of the car."

 

I'd love it if someone at Codies sneakily altered the code so that anyone using a mode other than cockpit would see a tiny dancing Mario gif in the top corner of screen. I'd pay money to see that! 

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@sloppysmuisc @dalerossi @steviejay69 @fonefanatic

More questions ..

When you change your tyre is from soft to hard do you change you change your break & diff bias at all ? If yes why and when.

 

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Not really, unless you are being very very aggressive on softs. In which case, they won't last long.

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Like what @DaleRossisaid. Changes in the wet of course but the handling characteristics of hard medium and soft don't really differ except for grip when on the edge. If you are very aggressive on corner exit using no assists with the hards you might want to lock the on power diff a little more than usual is all. 

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4 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

Like what @DaleRossisaid. Changes in the wet of course but the handling characteristics of hard medium and soft don't really differ except for grip when on the edge. If you are very aggressive on corner exit using no assists with the hards you might want to lock the on power diff a little more than usual is all. 

Didn't think about doing that. With less grip, you would lock it more?

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9 hours ago, DaleRossi said:

Didn't think about doing that. With less grip, you would lock it more?

Yes cos more likely to lose the rear on exit. For extra nerdness it's quite normal for the lock to be increased in stages as the tires wear out... 

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