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DiRT Rally - AI drivers too good?

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But AI leader's results are almost don't vary among difficulty levels. And it is incorrect a bit... ))


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nah                                                                                                                                                                         

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If you compare timings from the "1st" AI time woth overall records, you can see people is much more faster than AI. Much more. Even I am.
masters difficulty is not piece of cake, and requires 100% upgraded cars in order to win, but is perfectly doable if you dont make huge mistakes.

RX are still a bunch of turtles walking around.. :(

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I have won stages at Master with a standard non upgraded car and I am far from the fastest, I did an 8 stage custom event and finished 2 seconds off the winner in 2nd, again at Masters level and with a standard car with default setup. It was pretty exciting but I would imagine a higher level will be needed as experience grows.

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It's quite alarming how many people think the AI are too good :/ 

I feel those same people would cry if they tried to play some of my old Spectrum and NES games. You don't know difficulty! 

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EddDragn said:
I just hope the AI in the lead make a mistake so I pass them that way ^^
Still no victory in masters.
Try slower cars
Yeah I could do that. And when I wrote masters I meant the highest difficulty. The highest setting is entitled Professional isn't it?

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It's quite alarming how many people think the AI are too good :/ 

I feel those same people would cry if they tried to play some of my old Spectrum and NES games. You don't know difficulty! 
Or the Devil May Cry games at "Dante Must Die" difficulty level. Heck, even DMC3 at Normal would make most people rage quit in a manner of few minutes xD

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It's quite alarming how many people think the AI are too good :/ 

I feel those same people would cry if they tried to play some of my old Spectrum and NES games. You don't know difficulty! 
It can be difficult to put this into perspective.

I don't really think the easiest AI difficulty in DiRT Rally sometimes setting times within a dozen or so places of the world record months after release is especially justifiable.
If we were just talking about Professional or Master, then maybe fair enough. But we're not.

Unless they had game breaking bugs that literally made it impossible, there weren't that many classic games that only a few dozen people could finish.
There's a difference between someone who beats The Legend of Zelda and someone who gets to Ganon without ever using the sword.
It's even a massive difference between finishing MGS2 on Extreme (or European Exterme) and doing it with the Big Boss rank.

There's still issues where the AI is significantly faster (and occasionally slower) on certain stages, even certain sectors, regardless of difficulty.

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I cannot agree with OP.

I'm using DFGT wheel (do You use any?), and yesterday i completed masters championship, unfortunately i was just 1 point short to win them, but it was my fault, since i crashed really hard on second stage of finland, and haven't managed to repair all stuff enough.
But I'm very happy with result (frankly i'm glad i was able to finish without DNF) and with game that didn't let me win because i had too many destroyed parts, and AI took advantage of that, for me it's great, I was really annoyed that just 1 point more and i would win, but i won professional and elite on first take, and it wasn't satysfing, so now i'm gratefull i haven't won.

For me there is nothing to correct, AI drivers are sometimes even too slow (I'm not bragging), on masters level i can get ahead of them for 15-20sec easily, when i'm driving careful, listening pacenotes, being focused.

Also, I'm not using restart option - that's not what rally is all about.

I'm driving with all assists off and doing little setup tweaks for every rally (just some standard gears ratio, brakes, camber&toe and differential sometimes).


I'm more used to Richard Burns Rally gameplay, which was way harder for me (on xbox360 with xbox360 controller)

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This is one of the few car sims, where I really could feel the "learning curve"
10 hours is nothing in this sim, the top drivers in DR have sometimes hundreds of hours played and still stick to DR cause it stayed challeging for them.


 

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This is one of the few car sims, where I really could feel the "learning curve"
10 hours is nothing in this sim, the top drivers in DR have sometimes hundreds of hours played and still stick to DR cause it stayed challeging for them.


 
254 hrs and counting :D I know some people have at least 150 more than me 

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AI times should get better and better from lower levels to higher, up to what they are in Masters level now. Now the fastest AI in clubman-level is as fast Masters AI-top driver.

And they should add two extra levels after Masters (like Masters + and Masters ++) where AI is even faster. AI in Masters+ would be like 1second/km(1,6s/mile) faster and in Masters++ they would be 2s/km (3,2s/mile) faster.

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I don't see the harm in widening the range of difficulty. The people who find it easy will clearly play no matter what because you can still compete with people online. The people who find it too hard should be catered to as they will leave the game if they are struggling on the lower difficulties. People need to feel like they are improving, so it is important to have a career that highlights when players are getting better.

That being said I feel the difficulty was fine for me, but I wouldn't have been upset if the first two difficulties were easier.

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I think it works well this way as there's a challenge at the early difficulties for everyone. As there's a bit of a grind to get to the upper difficulties, it means that, even at lower difficulties, there's a competitor for every version.

If I'd walked the first two championships, I'd have struggled to motivate myself to keep going in the hope I would find one that matched me. At first I thought 'that is a strange system' but I quickly came to think it was a great idea. Would be nice if it were able to be raised a bit further or, even better, tweaked in the game's files though.

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I would add "Alien" difficulty after "Masters"

For those of us Masters does not represent a challenge anymore...

It would be awsome if  AI times were the average top ten delta times or something, for each stage and conditions of the stage. (actually I think the system does not distinguish weather condition or day time)

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OzoreXS said:
I would add "Alien" difficulty after "Masters"

For those of us Masters does not represent a challenge anymore...

It would be awsome if  AI times were the average top ten delta times or something, for each stage and conditions of the stage. (actually I think the system does not distinguish weather condition or day time)
Good idea. It might be worth it being a level (maybe even two more levels) which get unlocked once you have beaten the AI on a stage or more at Masters. That way it wouldn't be demotivating by being so far out of reach for beginners (e.g. someone who thinks they should be running at the highest level but get trounced!)

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It doesn't really speak of an especially great learning curve if the earlier difficulties challenge absolutely everyone.

Done a test for an example now.
In the R4 class after a week of playtime, only 165 people have set a time fast enough to beat the Clubman AI on Dyffryn Afon.
Only 165 people have thus far proven capable of beating the 2nd easiest difficulty level in that car class for that stage.
It's impossible to rule out the use of trainers by at least some of those people trying to unlock achievements either.

Such a small number beating Master AI, that'd be completely understandable. Clubman, not so much.

People also need to understand how huge the skill gap is between the best few dozen players and everyone else.
Even though it's just a sprint stage, the difference between the fastest time and the 100th fastest time is over 10 seconds.

Honestly, the top 1% of players shouldn't be making all that many comments about the lower difficulty settings.
It's just not applicable to them and there's little reason to treat it like it is.
When you stop and think about it, given that only such a small number of people can beat even the lower difficulty settings, there really isn't much basis to devote any time or resources in developing a more difficult one that's only going to be relevant to literally less than a hundred people.

Personally, I just don't feel the "get good" arguments or scoffing that people just expect to be winning at the highest level is a very constructive way to look at it when you start looking at raw data of how the multiple difficulty levels are balanced.
The hardest mode could potentially be made harder, but the easiest could certainly be made easier.

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BrySkye said:

In the R4 class after a week of playtime, only 165 people have set a time fast enough to beat the Clubman AI on Dyffryn Afon.
Only 165 people have thus far proven capable of beating the 2nd easiest difficulty level in that car class for that stage.
It's impossible to rule out the use of trainers by at least some of those people trying to unlock achievements either.

Maybe a daft question but where do you get to see that info?

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BrySkye said:

In the R4 class after a week of playtime, only 165 people have set a time fast enough to beat the Clubman AI on Dyffryn Afon.
Only 165 people have thus far proven capable of beating the 2nd easiest difficulty level in that car class for that stage.
It's impossible to rule out the use of trainers by at least some of those people trying to unlock achievements either.

Maybe a daft question but where do you get to see that info?
I set a time within 0.020 of the AI's winning time on that stage and looked at where it faired on the leaderboards.
The time was also about 20 seconds slower than the world record (on a sprint stage no less) which gives you an idea of how rapidly the times drop off between the fastest 100 or so times.
DiRT Rally isn't really like a lot of games where there are only a few seconds between the top 100 or so players. 

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BrySkye said:
Done a test for an example now.
In the R4 class after a week of playtime, only 165 people have set a time fast enough to beat the Clubman AI on Dyffryn Afon.
Only 165 people have thus far proven capable of beating the 2nd easiest difficulty level in that car class for that stage.

I have enough credits to buy both, but no interest in buying an R4 car.  Maybe I am not the only one? Perhaps the majority of players feel they have bigger fish to fry, than going back to a championship in a slower heavier car?

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I can't judge the difficulty of the Open AI (maybe it could benefit from being a tad slower for beginner's). The game has a big learning curve, but it's one of it's stronger points. In Masters after 100+ hours, I find it appropriately difficult to beat the AI but in no way impossible provided I drive cleanly. I'm actually glad that it is this way, so I need to concentrate and it keeps things interesting. What a drag it would be if I finished 30sec quicker than the AI...

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I am honestly a bit shocked that this is still discussed in such a manner. To "beat" open/clubman/pro/elite you need to come in 2nd OR 3rd, this is well known and pretty much all of the frustration with difficulty stems from people wanting to come in first.
People just need to erase that first place in their mind until they reach masters, it is a design decision to promote a certain mindset.

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