Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

DiRT Rally - AI drivers too good?

Recommended Posts

dgeesi0 said:
dont make anything easier.worst thing that could be done. remember to get the best out of the game you have to play to learn it. by making it easier that just shortens the life span.
Both of those statements are false. Making Open more... open, would actually probably make it more realistic. It's not Dark Souls: Rally Edition. Might sound dumb, but if you put a open class golfer with a pro golfer, the open class guy isn't going to hold up very well. making the "Easiest" difficulty, which is almost exactly the same as the rest, easier, doesn't ruin the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Part of my spreadsheet, I got tired of doing the same track with the same cars 15 times in a row, thus I did Open, Pro, and Masters.
I did each difficulty 5 times and copied the top 5 AI times and averaged it underneath. The time on the side is 1st place average, and total average. If anyone wants I can complete it or do any other stage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I find more problematic the fact if you run ith cars without upgrades.

you may find the open class very easy to beat, but try to do it with a stock car it will me much more difficult.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agreed, it's difficult, but that difficulty makes me try again and again and again until i manage to get in a fantastic run.
Without the current difficulty i'd be driving mediocre runs and be happy with it. Now i'm wrapping my car around a tree 3 out of 4 times, but i'm also putting in some fantastic runs. And when you do manage to get ahead of the AI on elite or master by 5 seconds after 2 sectors it feels just fantastic (even if you mess it up in sector 3 or 4 and still end 3rd :) )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JZStudios said:

Part of my spreadsheet, I got tired of doing the same track with the same cars 15 times in a row, thus I did Open, Pro, and Masters.
I did each difficulty 5 times and copied the top 5 AI times and averaged it underneath. The time on the side is 1st place average, and total average. If anyone wants I can complete it or do any other stage.
You are going through a lot of trouble to find out about things we already know (;

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I love the system that the number 1 guy is just as fast in Open as in Masters and that the difference lies in the space between times of the other drivers. You simply have to get used to the idea that finishing 3rd is pretty good too. It's a bit odd to say a game is bad because you can't win it easily... I think this system makes you a better driver sooner than a system where you win everything at the lower levels.

I have to add that although the number 1 guy is very good, progressing through the game is very easy. I went from Open to Masters in one go (even won the Pro championship with a little luck). At one moment I decided to see what happened if I drove very, very carefully, focusing on keeping my car as healthy as possible, and still I finished 2nd and 3rd in a rally. After reaching Masters I reset my profile and started all over again and I went from Open to Masters in one go again and right now I only have to finish 6th in the last rally to win the Masters. And that will be easy because I have yet to finish lower than 4th in a rally. (I did get a DNF once though.) And that's without restarts (because that's cheating and I hate doing a stage more than once just to get a better time) and without changing setups. And I certainly am not the best driver around. You just got to be a bit careful and not race as if this is an arcade game. And you have to remember that you don't have to win every stage and rally to win a championship.

So in my opinion the AI is pretty good but certainly not too good!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, it's not unusual that in real races there's one or sometimes two rookies that are as fast as the pros

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just finished the Professional Championship and I've noticed a pattern with the super-AI in these rallies.  Here are a few things that identified the pattern:

-In the final stage of the final rally of the Pro Championship, I noticed that the Super-AI (T. Minami in this case) always ran 9.3-9.5 seconds faster than I did through the third sector of the stage.  In my case, the stage was Geufron Forest "Long" in Wales.  I restarted the stage multiple times and noted my split time after the second sector and comparing it to the third sector.  Twice, I was -3 seconds after the second sector, and +6 seconds after that sector.  Once, I was -4 seconds then +5 seconds, all other times I was around -1.0 to -1.5 and +8.0 to +8.5 by the third sector.  There was no instance where I did not lose this much time in the third sector.  

-The Super-AI seems to be on a rotation.  My first Super-AI was T. Spencer, and he won every stage in my first three championships by 10+ seconds.  This stopped when he finally had to retire during the first Professional Championship.  He was immediately replaced by another driver (A .Sakhid, if I remember correctly) who then began winning stages with the same gap.  By my third try at the Professional Championship, Sakhid had an engine failure in the first rally at Germany.  He was then replaced by T. Minami.   Minami finished 9th in the German rally, then went on to win every stage in the next two rallies by a similar margin.  On the final stage of the 4th rally, he suffered a brake failure and lost 16 minutes.  Since it was a 5k stage, I'm assuming he retired as well.  On the next rally, the first few stages were "normal", with times very close.  Minami then returned for the final stage seen above.  I'm about to start the next championship, and I'm assuming this will continue, since it has done so since the Career mode was started.

I'm starting to wonder if this is a bug, because one of my friends is having the same issue, while the others are not.  Similarly, reading through the posts here, it seems like some are having this issue as well.  The "norm" seems to be players having to make up 5 to 6 seconds to be competitive and winning stages, while the "few" seem to be stuck in a situation where one specific AI driver is consistently faster by a specific gap, regardless of car upgrades, conditions, or championship level.

I will say that the most fun I've had in this game so far is the stages just after the Super-AI has retired.  Whenever that happens, the finishing order becomes more condensed and it's much harder to finish higher on the board.  The stage winner is not always constant, and I've had stages where being 3 seconds off of the winner could be 2nd place in the stage, and some where it is 8th in the stage.  It's probably worth noting that I have not won every stage when the Super-AI is missing, usually just one or two during the absence.  Once the Super-AI returns, gaps between the AI increase and unless I wrap my car around a tree, I'm guaranteed either 2nd or 3rd.  Seeing a split time drop by 9 seconds through a sector and seeing that it was the same AI driver has caused me to walk away from the game many, many times.  It's not fun if you run the stage flat-out and are off by 12 seconds, then restart the stage, run conservatively, and remain 12 seconds off the pace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's another reason why I have the HUD turned off: so I don't get distracted (or annoyed or stressed) by the totally useless AI times. (Totally useless because the AI obviously doesn't actually drive.) And it's far more exciting (and realistic) to see the times after passing the finish: those few seconds before the results appear always are awesome! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On my system, if you retry a stage, the AI times stay the same. So, if you drive faster, you will gain on them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That italian guy "P. Costa" always gets on my nerves!! He's the one with the best times (at least in my game)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
While I voted for an agree, I do think the points others have brought up about the difficulty curve being off explain the situation best. The AI is certainly not unbeatable, but they don't perform in the way one would expect in some cases compared to the rest of the field on a given difficulty level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not gonna vote, i will make a post though (:
My friend recommended me this game, i really enjoyed pretty much all Codemasters games so far (for me starting with Toca 1 i think) and this is most definitely not an exception to that rule.

I am yet to finish top three position on the second level, and sometimes the AI times make me cry a bit inside ,_,
The first season we won around 75% of all the races, which made me think most of this would be a breeze D;
That being said, most of my laps aren't the cleanest out there, i get caught off guard by lots of small bumps and stuff.

I turned off the HUD as well (times + progression) so that the scoreboard after the event shows me what a total scrub i am D;

All in all i don't think the AI is too fast, lots of times i know where and how i messed up, and judge their times accordingly.

Piece (:

//edit: i clocked around 30 hours at this moment, yay \o/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
After leaving DiRT Rally alone for a bit, I've gotten back into the career mode and am still getting stomped by unattainable AI times.  When I came back, I was mid-way through the 2000s Elite Championship, and, like normal, I was getting smoked by the same AI driver each time.  He eventually drove the car off a cliff on the penultimate rally, which handed the lead (and rally win) to me.  I was leading the final rally until he managed to gain 16 seconds over two consecutive segments in one stage on the final rally.  I decided to start the championship over (2000s again), but it went to Masters because I finished 2nd in that one.  Instead of doing that championship, I abandoned it after one stage and went back to Elite to test some things.  Here's what I've found so far:

-The pattern of Super AI running a rally, crashing in the next, being terrible for a few stages, and finally returning to Super to start it all over still exists.  When I went down from Masters to Elite, the previous Super AIs were not competing in the Elite division, however new names did the same thing.  I'm currently on the 2nd rally of the championship in Monte Carlo with a 5-second lead over the Super AI, who has a 47 second lead over 3rd.  This AI crashed in the first rally at Wales, leaving the rally to be contested over myself and 3 other AI drivers of equal pace, which was a lot of fun!  Super AI was awful for two stages (+50-something seconds after stage 2), but has regained his Super-ness.

-AI times do not always stay the same for me if I restart a stage.  I've tried this a few times, and if I finish a stage, note the time, then restart it, the Super AI may/may not have the same time when I finish the stage the second time.

-The Super AI only seems to be "Super" on surfaces that are not tarmac.  Rally Germany is typically a rally where I can challenge the current Super AI if I'm really on it and pushing hard.  Those stages can either be a few seconds in my favor, or a few in his favor.  Monte Carlo has been interesting, with me being able to pull a small lead on the asphalt sections, but the Super AI pulling away strong when the road ices over.  The Super AI is typically far ahead on stages in Wales, Finland, and Greece. (I haven't encountered Sweden yet)

From the third thing, it makes me wonder something about the surfaces themselves.  I was following a topic a week or so ago about the leaderboards getting reset because of a mod that causes the stage surfaces to not vary in grip levels, as is intended by the game's physics.  Am I correct in understanding that?  If so, we'll move on:

If that's the case, and the game produces surface variations for different runs, it's possible that my time over a stage would vary naturally as a result, i.e. I would inevitably be slower on a more worn stage than on a "fresh" stage.  Aside from wondering how that would affect Daily, Weekly, and Monthly events, I'm starting to wonder how the AI is treated because of this.  It's clear that some people with the game have this Super AI problem, while some do not.  As I've said before, I have friends who I've compared times (Same stage, same difficulty championship) and the AI is drastically faster on my game than on various friends' games.  Because of this, what I think could be a possibility is that, on some clients, something is causing the AI to always run on a fresher, faster stage, while the player is stuck with a more "realistic" stage for the situation.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I feel like I'm playing a completely different game than a lot of commenters here.

I'm playing in the Elite championship and consistently finishing in the top 5.

I have logged over 25 hours, the first 20 hours were mostly a disaster and I have yet to do a full, fast clean stage.

What? Something doesn't work here. I have 65 hours in and can't break into the podium in any car I drive in clubman.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It will come, trust me. I have just finished the first rally in a championship on master level and won all 12 stages. And I really don't consider myself a very fast driver.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The issue is, that Open is currently way , way, too hard. The AI currently are useless, apart from the top 5. The 3rd-4th-5th drivers are about spot on. It takes a season or 2, but you can consistently keep up with them. 1st and 2nd though, they are ridiculous. You shouldn't be in the best 50 in the world to win a rally on the lowest difficulty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mole55 said:
The issue is, that Open is currently way , way, too hard. The AI currently are useless, apart from the top 5. The 3rd-4th-5th drivers are about spot on. It takes a season or 2, but you can consistently keep up with them. 1st and 2nd though, they are ridiculous. You shouldn't be in the best 50 in the world to win a rally on the lowest difficulty.
I've spent 420 hrs on the game, and sometimes I still lose to the highest difficulty due to bad car placement and rhythm... just to put things into perspective. 

DR isn't pick up and play in the sense that you'll be besting your current class right away. Where's the reward when winning a class is easy?

If you look at rally results, from either local, national or world championship level, you'll see that (quite often) the driver performance gaps between the AI drivers in DR are accurate, with the podium places usually holding the bigger advantage. This game is designed to push you in order to get better. 

I suppose you could say it's the Dark Souls of motor sport; once you know the strategy you'll more often than not better the AI. 

Although he's the best driver in the WRC right now, Seb Ogier doesn't win every rally. 

You shouldn't be in the best 50 in the world to win a rally on the lowest difficulty.

Nobody would have a sniff of getting in the top 50 if they didn't win an Open championship. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ogier doesn't win every rally beacause FIA introduced reversed start order. He rarely makes mistakes and his VW is a tank most of the time. This is your number one driver in DR I reckon ;) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree

Making a game too hard will put off a lot of gamers and that will only hurt codemasters. I think it should be as easy as WRC games

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Goggs25 said:
I agree

Making a game too hard will put off a lot of gamers and that will only hurt codemasters. I think it should be as easy as WRC games
How can they call themselves gamers if they're put off by a challenge? If Codemasters made Dirt Rally as stupid as WRC, they would lose most of their playerbase.

I suggest you stick to WRC, because Dirt Rally will not change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Goggs25 said:
I agree

Making a game too hard will put off a lot of gamers and that will only hurt codemasters. I think it should be as easy as WRC games
I think this is going to offend a lot of people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×