Jump to content

Jämsä, Finland – Available Now in DiRT Rally 2.0

Recommended Posts

@HoksuHoo why codemasters should share their work? the problems probably come from the consoles (PS4 and Xbox one) the new generations of consoles arrive at the end of the year and surely the new dirt will arrive in 2021 to correct with visual effects like on the photo.

codemasters have more  priorities than fog:

@PJTierney
-the inertia slide on tarmac (with all rally category)
-tire strategy (which is very bad)
-rain on the tarmac raly  and RX (for the rally rain tire is better than medium tires, on dry conditions and you can drive very fast  without losing control on the the rain)
- the work of the suspensions (the work   suspension does not really  exist, i have   impression  the cars are cubes which turns, goes up and down and no more, when you brake or accelerate with very flexible suspension  you do not see the car going down in front or rear , same for the jumps .... I play in cokpit view I have very little visual sensation of the work of the suspensions I just have the impression of turning left to right, going up and down, with my 206 when I come fast  in turn  , my car tilting on one side, like one day I took a jump 90km/h instead of 50 km/h in a a small town  , after the jump i have feeling  my car go down more lower than the base height  and the exhaust touch the floor ,  that day, my exhaust had holes .


 

Edited by gk9147
  • Agree 1
  • Disagree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, HoksuHoo said:

This is a very bizarre and nonsensical thing to say. They could explain it in far more depth and detail, they have told us very little. No one here is asking to see the entire game code.

They could explain why, out of all the countless things developers can do to increase performance, they picked a horrible looking fog that make it look painfully bad.

They could explain why and how their "visual upgrade" has resulted in Finland looking a hell of a lot worse than in DR1. To me it just says they have done an astonishingly awful job.

They could explain why they think Finland DLC is in a condition fit for release in its current state. It's so awful Codies can't even show screenshots of it. They should have postponed release

They could explain why they release fake screesnshots that look nothing like the real game.

They could explain how they managed to get dusk and sunset to run ok without the horrible fog.

They could explain why this fog is the same on all platforms and why PC has no option to adjust it.

They could explain why it took them two months to give such a short and incomplete response.

They could explain why they say they don't plan to fix it, when it's so far below standard and so bad some players are avoiding Finland.

I could go on and on. Lots of questions, next to zero information.

"clues as to how their tech works" oh dear. You are actually under some delusion that tech stuff in a video game that anyone can buy is some super-confidential high-level military secret that cannot even be hinted at. Try to get to touch with reality would you? Maybe then you would also understand that they can give us information without sharing the entire game code.

Couldn't say it better.

@gk9147 Yeeeey so we would be given a chance to pay third time for the same content!!!

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, gk9147 said:

@HoksuHoo why codemasters should share their work? the problems probably come from the consoles (PS4 and Xbox one) the new generations of consoles arrive at the end of the year and surely the new dirt will arrive in 2021 to correct with visual effects like on the photo.

codemasters have more  priorities than fog:
 

Wha? That first question doesn't even make sense. You seem to have severely misunderstood some of my post.

The existence of consoles does not mean Finland absolutely must have a horrible looking on it. Numerous games run just fine on consoles while looking decent, and other locations in DR2.0 do too. Dusk and sunset in Finland do. Codemasters have just done a shockingly bad job with the daytime weather. They added a horrible fog "for performance reasons" when what they should have done is increase performance in other ways.

A DLC with a iconic and beloved real-life rally location is horrifically botched. I loved driving these stages in DR1 but the DR2.0 is so bad I avoid it in daytime since it's just painful to play as it looks so horrible and completely unrealistic, and you can barely see the road on what should be crystal clear weather. Fixing Finland really should be very high priority.

  • Disagree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, HoksuHoo said:

Wha? That first question doesn't even make sense. You seem to have severely misunderstood some of my post.

The existence of consoles does not mean Finland absolutely must have a horrible looking on it. Numerous games run just fine on consoles while looking decent, and other locations in DR2.0 do too. Dusk and sunset in Finland do. Codemasters have just done a shockingly bad job with the daytime weather. They added a horrible fog "for performance reasons" when what they should have done is increase performance in other ways.

A DLC with a iconic and beloved real-life rally location is horrifically botched. I loved driving these stages in DR1 but the DR2.0 is so bad I avoid it in daytime since it's just painful to play as it looks so horrible and completely unrealistic, and you can barely see the road on what should be crystal clear weather. Fixing Finland really should be very high priority.

realistic ?you find it realistic to play in hood view? or have a HUD mirror in rallycross? is that realistic for you? and I repeat, be patient the new generations of consoles will soon arrive and surely a new dirt rally

  • Disagree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/14/2020 at 3:48 PM, gk9147 said:

realistic ?you find it realistic to play in hood view? or have a HUD mirror in rallycross? is that realistic for you? and I repeat, be patient the new generations of consoles will soon arrive and surely a new dirt rally

That doesn't even compare and you know it.

Stop talking about next console generation or future Dirt Rally games. Nothing to do with anything. Finland in daytime is far worse than it was in DR1, it's far worse than other locations, and it needs to be fixed

Edited by HoksuHoo
  • Disagree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, HoksuHoo said:

That doesn't even compare and you know it.

Stop talking about next console generation or future Dirt Rally games. Nothing to do with anything. Finland in daytime is far worse than it was in DR1, it's far worse than other locations, and it needs to be fixed

 

no the priority is gameplay not graphics , and since 1 year the players  wait for these problems to be corrected, so your effects of sun, fog, or others can wait

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe you should patiently wait for next generation of consoles then, surely the gameplay will be improved in the next game. As per your own brilliant advice

You don't seem to understand what the problem even is. "your effects of sun, fog, or others"

Edited by HoksuHoo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It really doesn't make any sense.

You make a great, serious rally game (after decades of making rally games) where you can see clear to the horizon, and you achieve 60fps with a terrific standard of graphics overall.

Then you make a sequel, and instead of starting with visibility clear to the horizon and working to improve graphics without compromising this basic feature, you jazz up the graphics and then remove the visibility with fog.

This is a$$-backwards game design imho. Compromise the one aspect, vanishing point, that has been recognised as the single most important graphics feature in racing for years. Sure, they've kept 60fps, but they had that to begin with!

  • Like 1
  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jake Cushing said:

It really doesn't make any sense.

You make a great, serious rally game (after decades of making rally games) where you can see clear to the horizon, and you achieve 60fps with a terrific standard of graphics overall.

Then you make a sequel, and instead of starting with visibility clear to the horizon and working to improve graphics without compromising this basic feature, you jazz up the graphics and then remove the visibility with fog.

This is a$$-backwards game design imho. Compromise the one aspect, vanishing point, that has been recognised as the single most important graphics feature in racing for years. Sure, they've kept 60fps, but they had that to begin with!

This.

Well said. Hit the nail on the head

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im sure they already tried to take away some of the trees to get extra performance to being able to take out the fog but id be happy to "give that away" for less fog. Take away some of the grass aswell, im not sure how console works but on PC ground cover is a huge hit on performance and should give some extra headroom.

Is it possible that we can get an official answer on the fps hit when fog is disabled? The answer is probably no but doesnt cost anything to try 😄

Edited by somethingthing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, somethingthing said:

Im sure they already tried to take away some of the trees to get extra performance to being able to take out the fog but id be happy to "give that away" for less fog. Take away some of the grass aswell, im not sure how console works but on PC ground cover is a huge hit on performance and should give some extra headroom.

Is it possible that we can get an official answer on the fps hit when fog is disabled? The answer is probably no but doesnt cost anything to try 😄

I’d really like nearly any other compromise too, but it definitely costs to try when you’re paying programmers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/9/2020 at 10:02 AM, PJTierney said:

Hello everyone, asked around and got some info on the "fog" effect seen in some locations (most notably Finland).

 

  • This visual effect in particular is by design and set as such for performance reasons.
  • We do not plan to change this in a future update.
  • We are however adding the ability to select Rain when taking part in Events at Finland. This will come in Version 1.12.

So thanks to clear this up. As you can see in the following discussion that is not very understandable more if you compare the new awfull version to the old nice version of DR1.

For me this means, thankfully I've waited with my decission to buy season 3+4 until Finnland is fixed. And as it will not be fixed I saved some money, because for sure I'm nobody who pays money to annoy myself.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does the new rainy / mid-day Finland not have fog ?

  • Like 1
  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/9/2020 at 4:02 AM, PJTierney said:

Hello everyone, asked around and got some info on the "fog" effect seen in some locations (most notably Finland).

 

  • This visual effect in particular is by design and set as such for performance reasons.
  • We do not plan to change this in a future update.
  • We are however adding the ability to select Rain when taking part in Events at Finland. This will come in Version 1.12.

Well that is odd, because if you do tune some of the effects in the different events you can get rid of a lot of the fog, and not have performance issues.  If anything the effect seems to hide some LOD transitions, but at a price that should really be deemed too high.   I do call some ******** on what you've been told in it being related to performance, in the sense that running without the fog there isn't really decreased performance ,but maybe something isn't as polished and appears so without it.  In any case, as I said, a lot of this smoke can be mitigated by turning down settings.

Edited by bn880
  • Like 1
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/17/2020 at 3:52 AM, Jake Cushing said:

It really doesn't make any sense.

You make a great, serious rally game (after decades of making rally games) where you can see clear to the horizon, and you achieve 60fps with a terrific standard of graphics overall.

Then you make a sequel, and instead of starting with visibility clear to the horizon and working to improve graphics without compromising this basic feature, you jazz up the graphics and then remove the visibility with fog.

This is a$$-backwards game design imho. Compromise the one aspect, vanishing point, that has been recognised as the single most important graphics feature in racing for years. Sure, they've kept 60fps, but they had that to begin with!

Welcome to the terrible console gaming world, where lazy developers pander to 6-year old terrible hardware and don't even bother supporting the higher-end market. Dirt Rally was not a console product. It was a Hail Mary "we need cash" type of game, so it took them out of their comfort zone and, for once in recent history, they targeted PC. But this is clearly not the case with any of their recent games. This is why Grid 2019 looks like a steaming pile of manure, and why Dirt Rally 2.0 is so limited in scope and graphics (granted, to a much, much lower degree than Grid—clearly much more talented developers work on DR2.0 and F1). This generation you also have developers targeting 60 fps on consoles for the first time, so it's a double whammy of limited performance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would not say that there is no fog in rain. It is approximately the same amount of fog we had before in dusk, wet conditions. It is less visible, because it is blue and everything in such conditions disappear in blue haze. And yes, it affects performance. FPS on my toaster drops to 38 almost through all the stage. It only happened before in Poland in some very special places.

I guess the reason for this is how modern graphics is made. Before there was limited light processing, so developers had to invest in better texture quality to make it look good. And they succeeded it so we have very beautiful Dirt Rally 2015, that in some cases (Greece, Finland) looks even better than more modern Dirt Rally 2.0. There were some disadvantages - fixed textures are fixed and creating realistic track degradation would cause a lot of effort to draw all the details.

Modern graphics development is concentrated more on post processing (light and shade effects, ray tracing, etc.) Being under pressure from hard dead lines and profit expectations, developers usually economize time on textures, concentrating more on new staff and masking things that don't look great with some dirty tricks (hiding them in shades or smoke). That is why road surface in Dirt Rally 2.0 does not look so great, but instead it can be dynamically changed in new light and now we have surface degradation mechanics.

Personally I don't like the way EGO engine evolved since Dirt 4 into plasticine kind of graphics. Distant pine trees even with ultra settings look like toys. Headlights at night shine bright but don't light enough distance, creating very unrealistically contrast picture. Some fences and nets, as well as crowd, cause huge FPS drop in some places. And since it is graphical engine problems, it is unlikely that it can be fixed in present title.

Hope Codemasters are doing enough profits to invest in future development of their graphics engine for next title to support all that bells and whistles that we like to see in modern racing game - photo-realistic graphics, long real size stages, dynamic weather change, realistic road physics, tire degradation and car destructibility, etc.

 

Edited by Tigron
  • Agree 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Tigron said:

I would not say that there is no fog in rain. It is approximately the same amount of fog we had before in dusk, wet conditions. It is less visible, because it is blue and everything in such conditions disappear in blue haze. And yes, it affects performance. FPS on my toaster drops to 38 almost through all the stage. It only happened before in Poland in some very special places.

I guess the reason for this is how modern graphics is made.

 

I think your method is a bit lacking. Rain introduces other computational heavy algorithms , namely reflections and the rain particles.  This is not a conclusive performance comparison and you guess wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/24/2020 at 6:55 AM, bn880 said:

I think your method is a bit lacking. Rain introduces other computational heavy algorithms , namely reflections and the rain particles.  This is not a conclusive performance comparison and you guess wrong.

Where did I say that rain itself does not cause extra load? My point was, that Finland-remastered in DR 2.0 is not very well optimized, that cause excessive computational loads and was, so called, "fixed" by some tricks to meet tight release dead lines.

Could you be more precise about what did I guess wrong?

Another example of such "quality" work can be seen in Jagodno, Poland. Try to go through this stage in sunset, showers, wet conditions with headlights on. You will see a noticeable FPS drop in the following places:

  • Entrance to the forest after 1st split, where crowd stands behind the net to the left and forest to the right of the road. 
  • Unseen 1 right after chicane in the middle of the 2nd split, as there are pole fence to the right of the road.

It happens because the game try to process light reflections on pole fences and nets (as well as trees and branches) and cannot handle it the right way or disable this processing for not very powerful hardware.

It feels like light in such conditions just processed like "fork bomb" - it interference over 1st obstacle, than next obstacle has to be processed taking both main and reflected light into consideration as well as shadow from the previous obstacle. When you have dozens of such obstacles one by one (like pole fence) you need a really huge commutation power to process them all. Or you just put an adjustable processing limit into the code to let if flow even of limited hardware. Unfortunately, Codemasters for DR2.0 did not find better way stop light processing, but just dimmed the light by means of fog and haze. So they are not that much code "masters".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just noticed the day/rain setup is still not available in clubs...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, toninus said:

Just noticed the day/rain setup is still not available in clubs...

That'll require a website update, good spot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×