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DiRTy Gossip about WRC 8 and WRC 9

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Maybe we should have access to some issue tracker like normal SWs have. You can create your issue, add comments and see the status. Because forum is a bit useless as a tracker. It's better than nothing for sure but everybody can see the problem now. I don't care about cockpit wheel but what is the current situation with it? Hard to say.

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On 11/11/2019 at 10:44 AM, Leo Natan said:

That's because it's optimized for gamepad users (consoles); the steering ratio of the animation is small.

Same for all Dirt games before Dirt Rally 2.0 has been released.
That wasn't the fault of gamepads - the driver animation was limited in general. Codemasters first game which supports more than 180 degree of steeringwheel animation is DR 2.0
Developers of WRC series have to solve the same problem.
 

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No reading of telemetry is enabled by WRC 8 which is a shame...

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My first post here, but I figured I would chime in since I have put a lot of time in on WRC 8. 

I play on an Xbox One X and had been using a Thrustmaster TX. It took some time to dial in but the FFB was really good once I got the wheel right. If felt better than DR and DR2.0

The default setups and quick adjustments for the car setups suck. To get the cars to actually handle properly, especially at slow speed, you have to setup the suspension and diff for each location. The physics shine once this is done. There still are some strange physics things going on though.

There are invisible puddles sometimes, and the car's reaction to puddles and water spots is way over-tuned. It is also not predictable based on your angle of entry, throttle position, or speed. You also get no feedback from running over some larger rocks or brush on the side of the stage. Curbs on tarmac stages are the exception.

Speaking of tarmac, the physics here are really good. The WRC cars tend to still be a little floaty, but proper suspension and diff tuning help with this.

Back to the FFB. I just upgraded this week to a CSL Elite 1.1 with the R330 wheel and universal hub and CSL Elite LC pedals.

The LC brake has made a huge difference, but it feels better in DR and DR2. The FFB in DR and DR2.0 now feel light-years beyond WRC 8 with my new hardware. I still have some tuning to do, but WRC 8 feels like canned feedback and vibrations now, to where DR and DR2 feel more natural; how I would expect the car and wheel to react. Tarmac still does feel better than the DR games, but even this has improved with the new wheel.

And let's talk about fps on console. It runs fairly smooth for 30fps on my One X. BUT......the low fps starts compounding problems as you get faster. When I had the TX dialed in with the car settings right, I was able to push top 25 in a number of stages, but at this speed the frame stutter and graphics wash out was interfering with the physics and my ability to react. 

 

TL;DR is that WRC 8 is a good game. It has its issues as does DR and DR2, but it's good. I would recommend if you want to play it seriously, do so on PC. The 30 fps limit on consoles will eventually hold you back. For asphalt rallies, it is much better than DR/DR2. On gravel, I still prefer DR/DR2. 

My dream come true would be for CM to get the WRC license and make a fully licensed WRC rally game with DR2 gravel physics and proper asphalt physics.

 

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21 hours ago, SaxmanUSMC said:

My dream come true would be for CM to get the WRC license and make a fully licensed WRC rally game with DR2 gravel physics and proper asphalt physics.

 

there's a thread talking about this actually. can't find it now, but the consensus was basically that the WRC would probably want a game that was only about the WRC, so there's a good chance we'd lose any non-WRC locations, cars and disciplines (and possibly even many of the older cars). they'd also want it more accessible for more casual fans, so more like the regular Dirt series than Dirt Rally.

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On 12/21/2019 at 1:47 PM, SaxmanUSMC said:

My first post here, but I figured I would chime in since I have put a lot of time in on WRC 8. 

I play on an Xbox One X and had been using a Thrustmaster TX. It took some time to dial in but the FFB was really good once I got the wheel right. If felt better than DR and DR2.0

The default setups and quick adjustments for the car setups suck. To get the cars to actually handle properly, especially at slow speed, you have to setup the suspension and diff for each location. The physics shine once this is done. There still are some strange physics things going on though.

There are invisible puddles sometimes, and the car's reaction to puddles and water spots is way over-tuned. It is also not predictable based on your angle of entry, throttle position, or speed. You also get no feedback from running over some larger rocks or brush on the side of the stage. Curbs on tarmac stages are the exception.

Speaking of tarmac, the physics here are really good. The WRC cars tend to still be a little floaty, but proper suspension and diff tuning help with this.

Back to the FFB. I just upgraded this week to a CSL Elite 1.1 with the R330 wheel and universal hub and CSL Elite LC pedals.

The LC brake has made a huge difference, but it feels better in DR and DR2. The FFB in DR and DR2.0 now feel light-years beyond WRC 8 with my new hardware. I still have some tuning to do, but WRC 8 feels like canned feedback and vibrations now, to where DR and DR2 feel more natural; how I would expect the car and wheel to react. Tarmac still does feel better than the DR games, but even this has improved with the new wheel.

And let's talk about fps on console. It runs fairly smooth for 30fps on my One X. BUT......the low fps starts compounding problems as you get faster. When I had the TX dialed in with the car settings right, I was able to push top 25 in a number of stages, but at this speed the frame stutter and graphics wash out was interfering with the physics and my ability to react. 

 

TL;DR is that WRC 8 is a good game. It has its issues as does DR and DR2, but it's good. I would recommend if you want to play it seriously, do so on PC. The 30 fps limit on consoles will eventually hold you back. For asphalt rallies, it is much better than DR/DR2. On gravel, I still prefer DR/DR2. 

My dream come true would be for CM to get the WRC license and make a fully licensed WRC rally game with DR2 gravel physics and proper asphalt physics.

 

i have found using external ssd makes wrc 8 a lot smoother.

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7 hours ago, watzcoc said:

i have found using external ssd makes wrc 8 a lot smoother.

That's interesting cause I had it on my external SSD at first and it was bad. It's pretty smooth on the internal.

 

That said, with my new setup, I am finding wrc 8 not much fun and am absolutely loving DR and DR 2. I have actually gone back to controller for WRC 8.

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9 hours ago, SaxmanUSMC said:

That's interesting cause I had it on my external SSD at first and it was bad. It's pretty smooth on the internal.

 

That said, with my new setup, I am finding wrc 8 not much fun and am absolutely loving DR and DR 2. I have actually gone back to controller for WRC 8.

For instance, Horizon 4 is unplayable on internal HDD. I used SSD almost all the time for it and it's completely different experience. Battlefield V is the same so for some game it's a must.

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Escort RS1800 doesn't look right to me.

maxresdefault.jpg

Edited by cafe5150

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On 2/24/2020 at 12:36 AM, cafe5150 said:

Escort RS1800 doesn't look right to me.

All "legendary" car came form V-Rally 4 and all of them has got **** 3D models.

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20 hours ago, mesa said:

All "legendary" car came form V-Rally 4 and all of them has got **** 3D models.

That'll be why then. Not much effort gone into them and looking at some videos of the "legendary" cars the handling looks terrible as well. Shame

 

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3 hours ago, Johnnnn said:

LOL, what you can get from the studio with 30 FPS racing game.

to be fair, it does 60 on PC

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14 hours ago, ianism said:

to be fair, it does 60 on PC

Sure, but almost nobody plays there so GL Kylotonn 😄 It's not normal to have 30 FPS racing game. If they can't do games they should do something else.

Gran turismo devs talk about 120 FPS on new consoles because it's necessary. MS talks about 120 FPS for games too. 30 FPS was OK in 1995 for slower games.

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3 hours ago, Johnnnn said:

Sure, but almost nobody plays there so GL Kylotonn 😄 It's not normal to have 30 FPS racing game. If they can't do games they should do something else.

Gran turismo devs talk about 120 FPS on new consoles because it's necessary. MS talks about 120 FPS for games too. 30 FPS was OK in 1995 for slower games.

oh I was unaware you had sales figures for the game on different consoles. please, enlighten me.

DR2 apparently had ~50% of its user base on Steam until it went on game pass for Xbox, so now that console has the most users... but what % of them have actually playied regularly?

and 1995? you do not have to go back that far to get racing games that ran poorly. Midnight Club 3 was a great game, but it ran like garbage, and that's 2004 and just off the top of my head.

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1 hour ago, ianism said:

oh I was unaware you had sales figures for the game on different consoles. please, enlighten me.

DR2 apparently had ~50% of its user base on Steam until it went on game pass for Xbox, so now that console has the most users... but what % of them have actually playied regularly?

and 1995? you do not have to go back that far to get racing games that ran poorly. Midnight Club 3 was a great game, but it ran like garbage, and that's 2004 and just off the top of my head.

It's a long-term trend. Few percent on PC and everything else on consoles. It's different for every game.

50 %? It would be pretty special game. It's possible for sure. Companies usually care about sales in first weeks and that's why consoles are the main platforms for many games.

60 FPS was always standard for fast games. For US where had 50 it was probably 50? Because many people don't care about gameplay so companies tries 30 FPS too. 30 is a bad joke for fast games. A bit of console/arcade history:

 

And some data. It's always the same and that's the reason why PC is not much important platform. It's cool to sell there something but nobody cares, it's too expensive to develop and not much profit.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/269679/breakdown-of-ubisoft-sales-by-platform/

 

Edited by Johnnnn

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On 2/28/2020 at 7:21 AM, Johnnnn said:

Gran turismo devs talk about 120 FPS on new consoles because it's necessary. MS talks about 120 FPS for games too. 30 FPS was OK in 1995 for slower games.

Yet another FPS maniac. 120FPS and 60 FPS are great, but let's bring things back from heaven to reality a little bit.

1st, high FPS is great for shooters. Especially for sniper guys, who have to put their best head shot into a pixel. But when you wear a shotgun or rocket launcher, you don't care about accuracy that much. For racing games, especially for rally, it is not that much important either. The speed in rally is not that high. Anyway you have input lag because of the road surface. Especially when you play on the wheel and cannot rotate from one side to another at once.

2nd, how many people out there have best and newest equipment? How many people can afford to buy newest console on day 1, or hi-end PC with latest GPU and 120Hz monitor to actually feel that 120FPS? Only a few. Most of the people will still play on 3-4 years old equipment, sometimes 2nd hand.

3rd, FPS is not a true indicator of smoothness. You can have true 120FPS average, but also annoying lags in some places, because of buffer bottle necks and bad optimization. Highest and average frame time is the indicators you should look for a true smooth picture without lags.

I myself play DirtRally 2.0 on a 4 years old gaming laptop, having average FPS at 30-60 depending on the weather and it feels completely comfortable with a wheel. There are only 2 places in Poland that I have problem of dropping FPS down to 25 that feels uncomfortable. But why I should drop overall quality of the game for just 2 places in 1 track. I just plan my championship strategy, taking problem places into consideration.

So humble yourself! Game developers will continue doing money the way they consider comfortable for themself, without taking any of our personal opinion into consideration. If people consume something, then it will do.

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2 hours ago, Tigron said:

So humble yourself! Game developers will continue doing money the way they consider comfortable for themself, without taking any of our personal opinion into consideration. If people consume something, then it will do.

Sure, that's why I like CM's approach. They know how at least 60 FPS is important so every racing game has it. When I play on PC use 100+ FPS but on consoles I can't so 60 is a good compromise. It's not the best but better than nothing.

If anybody can't see and feel the difference I am OK with it. Kylotonn likes these people probably.

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Posted (edited)
On 2/28/2020 at 11:31 AM, Johnnnn said:

It's a long-term trend. Few percent on PC and everything else on consoles. It's different for every game.

50 %? It would be pretty special game. It's possible for sure. Companies usually care about sales in first weeks and that's why consoles are the main platforms for many games.

60 FPS was always standard for fast games. For US where had 50 it was probably 50? Because many people don't care about gameplay so companies tries 30 FPS too. 30 is a bad joke for fast games. A bit of console/arcade history:

And some data. It's always the same and that's the reason why PC is not much important platform. It's cool to sell there something but nobody cares, it's too expensive to develop and not much profit.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/269679/breakdown-of-ubisoft-sales-by-platform/

 

the FPS craze has only taken off since YT reviews became a thing - before, people might have had the tools to measure FPS on PC, but they didn't on consoles, and there was no way of spreading the information collected (like fps, etc) because the internet just wasn't fast enough to deal with videos for most people until the mid-2000s.

edit: that stats page is pay-only, and also it's for ubisoft games, which does not include WRC 7.

Edited by ianism
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