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Gameplay Feedback (League Racing)

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In light of Just Chillins recent Effort to get the instability of the game in league races fixed, here are some gameplay related things that need to get worked on to make the F1 game suitable for serious racing.
For reference, im one of the most active league racers on PC, i drive in AOR F2, RNL, WCR...

- We NEED a virtual Mirror. Noone cares about your fefes about how it hurts the games aesthetic. We need to be able to react to divebombs.
- Why do you make it so unbelievably hard to practice on the multiplayer car? Just make it the Merc or Ferrari and be done with it, then we can make setups offline. We cant even practice Qualifying without someone willing to participate. At least let us do one shots on the multiplayer car, best case would be a sandbox mode.
- Brake bias only adjustable in 2% steps during the race - no words
- I get that dirty air isnt fun. But while in real life you need to be faster by 1-2 seconds to overtake a car, in the game you need to be 1-2 seconds faster to be able to PULL AWAY from a car. Every race feels like Nascar, its ridiculous and frustrating. If you are in a slipstream train you can not risk to attack the car ahead and make it lose DRS from the car it is following, risking the end of both your races. Find some good middle ground, this isnt it.
- Removing ballast was a good decision in itself, but it completely ruined the games FFB. In the last game the more ballast you ran the more concentrated the load of the wheel was towards the rear. That allowed you to feel what the rear was doing. Now the rear is just feeling like a dead black hole of nothingness dangling around somewhere behind your front wheels.
- Its cool that you test your game on G29s, but do you realize that the FFB shocks when restarting a session(happens in Esports events a lot) are really really strong on high end wheels? Im pretty sure that with a DD1 or 2 they can break fingers and wrists. And im also pretty sure that codemasters would be liable since that is 100% bad coding.

Feel free to add your own points
 

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Thanks for signing up and chiming in with good suggestions most of us have given up asking for, forums need new blood! BTW I assure you that lots of us realism seekers also want a virtual mirror. Like you say realism is no fun when you're trying to steer a car with 8 wheels! 

Edited by sloppysmusic
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Something I'd like to add also is how the tracks get zero updates. The kerbs on most tracks (Belgium at le combe and Germany T1) have changed massively over the years however the game is still using the same tracks as they had back in 2016. This is a shame as I'm sure track limits have also changed along with these kerbs but we're using much faster cars with tracks that are there to accommodate cars that were 3 seconds a lap slower. 

Something else that gets on my nerves is also something brownie had brought up, practicing on your own. We need to have the option where we can turn the cars performance to exactly the same. Some sort of sandbox mode without AI that you can do on your own.

Choosing how many tyres you want in an online session. I wish you could have the option to do this by now. This is something the community has been asking for for years almost. Some tracks you don't even use certain tyres where as some tracks you don't have enough of the tyres. In Hungary for example, The fastest strategy is a one stop using Mediums to Hards now in quali why can't we have the option to have 3 sets of mediums instead of one and 2 sets of softs? It's pointless! Now as there's talks about next year the tyre rule being scrapped so if that does happen it won't effect anything. 

But most importantly, please listen to the league racing community more often as we're the one's who are buying this game year in year out and are playing it throughout the year consistently. We are constantly giving you things to fix but it seems as though we're just ignored.

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A few more i'd like to add, most are nothing new but they are really necessary:

 

- First thing i'd like to expand on is something related to the second point: why are there so many variations of the car. TT feels completely different to offline short qualifying, which feels different to online short qualifying. TT kinda makes sense but it shouldn't be as different as it is imo, TT is in very specific conditions, but if those same conditions are met in short quali it should be the same. Online and offline should also feel the same I don't understand why it's so different. They should be exactly the same (given equal conditions). The mp cars feels absolutely undriveable and completely different to the 2019 cars.  Additionally, while some claim this is just placebo, to me different cars feel completely different handling-wise, to the point where I am 0.5-1s slower with the Mclaren than with the Mercedes/Williams (you can be equally fast with all cars but you gotta get used to it). 

- DRS failures..... what's even the point of this outside of career mode.

- Contact model: makes the racing impossible. It's too often that you down the inside, have minor contact and you completely spin around, this makes wheel-to-wheel racing impossible and overall very risky for no reward (because of op slipstream, even if you get ahead you won't be able to get away so it's worse for you).

- Nothing to add regarding slipstream trains. Codemasters needs to take esports guys and work with them closely until a good balance is found. This is for me and many people, what makes the game unenjoyable.

- Qualifying tyres. In some tracks qualifying on the mediums is better strategy-wise at a cost of starting position, but with how it currently is, it forces you to do a one-shot qualifying (to have 2 shots you have to do multiple laps on the same tyres). Allow us to freely choose the amount of tyres of each compound available (eg 4 medium tyres for quali)

- Minor one but imo racing line is too OP, it's way too accurate. Imo assists should be a thing exclusively new-ish drivers use, it doesn't make sense that some of the fastest players in the game are using it (they use it because it's very accurate and just gives you more consistency with no downside).

- Wet races: imo the way the car behaves in the wet is just not fun nor realistic, the lines you take, the way you have to drive etc etc. Makes no sense imo

- Dedicated servers: a very requested feature but honestly, it's needed, especially with the contact model, the massive desync and bugs as the one in which ppl leaving the lobby makes the lobby host get massive screenfreezes.

- Allow us to not serve 5 second stop-gos (and have 5 seconds added at the end of the race). This one wouldn't make sense if the game was perfect, but since it's not, let us not serve stop-go penalties and leave it up to the league stewards whether those 5 seconds are kept or not.

- As Br0wnie mentioned, please work on the force feedback, I can barely feel anything.

- Make Xbox/PS4/PC feel the same. I haven't tried multiple platforms so this may just be a myth but from what I have been told and what I have seen in gameplay (hotlaps and such), the grip is different, setups are different (PC setups don't work on Xbox apparently) etc etc

- Improved jeff, give the drivers the option to ask for information about people that aren't p1/the guy in front/the guy behind. Get him to give us information on whether there is a gap to pit (eg "By my estimations, if we were to pit right now we'd come out in P8, 1 second behind the car in front and 3 seconds ahead of the car behind"), or maybe just information on how far behind a certain driver is and how many penalties he has

- An already very known thing but track limits are too inconsistent. Some corners allow no room for error, others can be abused ridiculously and others are a gamble (following the same line and sometimes it's valid and sometimes it's not).

- Finally, a pretty obvious one but ERS is such a pain in the ass, it's existence is imo a good addition but the way it has been implemented is just ridiculous.

 

I know a few of these have been said a million times, but they're not getting fixed so may as well keep mentioning them.

 

You can go ahead and completely ignore all of these but the truth is a lot of drivers are leaving and even esports drivers completely hate the game. For reference i'm part of a discord server in which most members were top drivers in F1 2017-2018 (Esports/AOR Tier 1/AOR Tier 2), except for 5/6 ppl (with some of them being part of the esports pro series), everyone has completely quit the game and moved on to iRacing

Edited by WCRrayrayray
Didn't express something the way I wanted to express it
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Oh yea, forgot to mention. In certain tracks the game promotes terrible driving, a good example of this is Hungary (Video by Veloce Jaaames https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4HMmDr6xp4) where it's better to just lock up into the corners, this is a thing in many corners, I understand this is simcade and there's always going to be a few unconvential op techniques but imo locking up into the corners just doesnt make sense. Same for using 1st gear, shouldn't be a thing

 

 

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 Can only echo what other people have said, in that FFB is bad, on controller you feel much more than a wheel and it’s easier to be fast on one unlike AC/iRacing for example (I know this isn’t a sim unlike those two, but it’s a good comparison). Even after lots of practice on a wheel I don’t have anywhere near the confidence I had on a controller

 

Racing line is also too op, it shouldn’t be a thing that fast people use imo

 

Dedicated Servers are needed, league racing has been plagued by connection issues ever since I’ve been racing (2017, so not long) but they’re only getting worse.

 

Track Limits need to be far more consistent. Being able to practice online should be a thing, in qualifying & race sessions, not just practice. A virtual mirror is needed. But this is all stuff that should’ve all been in older games, and still isn’t now.

 

I personally switched to iRacing a couple months ago since I can’t find any enjoyment in this game at all, I really want to like the game, and I half miss league racing, but the game in its current state is simply unenjoyable for me.

 

 

Edited by higsy
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Good post, listen to the e-sports and league people. They can provide solid information regarding multiplayer.

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I like to add some other things:

 

- VSC / SC somites comes out, when people leave the lobby (happened also in F1 2018)

- Problems with joining the lobby. Sometimes it works perfect, sometimes people have problems especially after restarting a lobby

- Make Rejoining possible during starting grid! In our league we have a 10 minute break between quali and race. Sometimes people disconnect and can´t take part in the race because after rejoining still in the starting grid, you can´t choose your driver

- Disconnects without reasons: Sometimes the game will disconnect and go back to Xbox Dashboard allthough Xbox live is still running without problems

- invisible walls around the car. You can´t race wheel to wheel, because there are sometimes invisible walls between the cars. So you don´t touch an other driver, but he still spins. Admittedly it improved a lot with F1 2019, but it´s still there.

- Switch to dedicated servers not p2p. Many bugs will disappear!

- And off course all time favourite: Safety Car. Sometimes it comes out without reason. In a test race in Canada with a friend, SC came out because i´ve driven slowly on the last main straight. But after huge crashes during races with cars on the racing line SC won´t come out?! ( I have to say, i gave up hoping for a working SC. 2016 it was perfect, since then it didn´t work properly. Don´t think it will work properly for the next years)

- Remove tyre damage at the rear tyres! I have to say i kinda like it that you can damage your tyre with driving over wing parts from other cars. But remove it from the rear tyres! It is nearly impossible to drive the car and keep it on the track, allthoug you drive really slowly. You will spin in almost every corner. I had the problem in Brazil. Tyre Damage on the finsih line, had to drive a whole lap. I was lapped almost 3 times. It kills all the fun.

- different settings on corner cutting for quali and race: a normal setting in quali is most times lax. The strict option is good for quali because it makes laps with cutting invalid, but for the race it is to strict, because you can get penalties in srange places or after brake mistakes. We drove in Canada and Le castellet with strict settings, most of the people had 10 to 20 seconds penalty.

Edited by dendemeier
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Just gonna list a few things, they've been added then apologies because I must've missed it

-Let us practice offline with Equal cars. Because even though they're all modeled after the Merc with equal performance, they don't feel 100% the same.

-The way to drive is completely unrealistic, e.g locking up can improve lap time. It isn't as pronounced as 2018 but is still a big issue. Locking up should cause much more tyre temps + wear, or should ruin your momentum more than it does.

-The RPM is completely unrealistic. IRL the cars only hit 295KP/H or so before redlining in 7th gear. In this game its 311. 

-Tyre wear needs to be much less scripted. Often the difference between tyre saving and doing multiple qualy laps can only allow you 1, maybe 2 laps more of tyre life.

-Sort of relating back to my last point, 2 stops need to be made more viable. If making tyre wear less scripted was a thing then 2 stops could be a possibility. Currently 2 stops are only viable at 3 tracks, and only clearly the fastest strat at 1.

-FFB fade is a big issue in this game. In a full lobby sometimes I can lose half the FFB I have in TT. It's not my wheel because it's not an issue in any other game.

 

Edited by Revo
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I have a small suggestion.... 

Either fix the pad hack issue. Competing with pad users is completely under addressed. In IRL and WOR, I would argue the champions in all tiers are pad users. A lot of them switched back to the pad to be competitive. 

Or have the ability to restrict pad users in the lobby settings. 

Also, it would be great to also restrict camera views. 

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Want to add my 2 cents into this as well.

-Retiring a car in the pits should not bring out a VSC/SC, it should stay in the pitlane, end of. Whether that is an option to choose to retire in the pits or the like, it is needed.

-Tyre Selection (which others have brought up), I cannot see how difficult it would be to program in tyre set by set selection for qualifying.

-FFB under braking is very shallow, personally on my G29 I can't feel the front tyres, or any of the tyres in general as I modulate the brakes. In general, I feel that the FFB doesn't give enough information as to what the car is doing; i.e, I can barely feel when I'm starting to slide, and I often have to predict it based on throttle feel rather than slip from the wheel itself.

-Practice vs Race grip: How is practice (which should be a green track I might add) be faster than a rubbered in dry track in the race? I would argue there's a 3-4 tenth a lap difference in track grip, even before mentioning tyre wear difference after qualifying. Practice should be slower than the race, even by just track grip alone.

-I know setups are supposed to be simplified a bit, but we need more tools to make adjustments to setup. What we have now does not fine tune issues in the car; things like bump/rebound in suspension instead of pure stiffness/softness for example would allow us to make more nuanced changes.

-ERS modes should have a larger gap between each other. This is in regards to DRS trains and Slipstream trains, which are more or less what occurs when people are ~2 tenths a lap within each other on pace barring non-ordinary circumstances. In that same vein, dirty air should make tyre management more difficult; it should be possible to fall back from DRS range, perform some tyre management, and attempt an overtake later on. In this game, if you lose DRS, barring something extraordinary, or with a large difference in ERS to the leading car, it becomes very difficult to claw back onto DRS and slipstream.

-Extra regarding the DRS and slipstream trains, the lead car is normally disadvantaged, and it is almost always better to be the 2nd car in the train and save fuel/ERS/tyres because of the relative lack of dirty air and OP slipstream.

-Walls will still pop out and destroy people/block the racing line: Abu Dhabi's 3rd to last corner exit wall, Singapore turn 7 left side exit wall (the sharp right after the DRS straight) come to mind for me.

-Softs will still overheat in relatively ridiculous ways, making the tyre borderline unusable for more than 5-7 laps without major saving, tracks that 1st come to mind are Monaco, COTA, Abu Dhabi. Personally, I believe that's down to very spiky surface temps which fry the canvas of the tyre, though others may believe otherwise.

-Lockups should be even more detrimental to tyre life; I know some people have alluded to this as well, however I do know that lockups will heat up the canvas of the tyre, just not as badly on the harder compounds.

-Virtual Mirrors; games from ~2003 have such a mirror, I find it impossible to believe that it cannot be done.

-Options to restrict camera view. I use TV pod personally, but I know some very fast people use cockpit view, there should be an option to restrict view. I know I'd give cockpit view a go with virtual mirrors or at least better POV to see my mirrors.

-Agree with rayray on 5 second stop go penalties, and I'd even take it a step further, and do the same for drive through penalties; give a time penalty in place of the non-served stop go, and allow league stewards to repeal the penalty with sufficient evidence.  

-I'd personally like to see an applicable VSC/SC delta limiter in the game, I know of times where people have been screwed over due to delta glitches and inconsistencies; take that risk out of the game.

-Last suggestion, might take a couple years to implement, but crossplay between platforms (would need same driving model for all platforms) in the near future.

There are a lot of good suggestions in this thread already, there's plenty of knowledgeble people in here that want to help make the game the best it can be, don't push them off too lightly. Thanks Brownie for making the thread, and for everyone to post good suggestions, we all want to see and drive the best possible game.

 

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43 minutes ago, LILLHELM said:

Non Assist Driver need more reward!

Well, I can show you data that Codies are nerfing assist grip. Are they nerfing them enough? IDK, that is up for debate, but I can assure you they are nerfing it. Is it actually translating into the game? IDK either. I can run some times and send you the differences of non-assist vs. assist slippage. Its very apparent in acceleration.

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I would like to add the following:

After a patch in F1 2018 Codemasters changed the rules option and this is the same with F1 2019. If you choose rules off the blue flag rule still applied. I really would appreciate it and some other fellow drivers to bring back this option.

Maybe give us following choices:

Full rules (flags, corner cutting)

Only corner cutting (regular, strict)

Only flags (yellow, blue, safety car)

Rules off

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Force cockpit cam during races for better fairness. ESport racers have to prove they are quick also in cockpit cam, which is not that obvious...That's much more difficult to see blind corners and separates children and men (and women).

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