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Assists faster vs Non-Assists?

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17 minutes ago, koog2003 said:

While it is known and very clear that Assists give you a huge boost in time advantage the fact people without assists are slower is due (relative to the example you just gave) to the fact that the wheels are spinning (as you say) so without assists you are slower than the one with assists. If it would not be the case then what would be the purpose of Assists exactly in your opinion ? 

Mate, assists are there so EVERYBODY can use it... if you think they're really that faster, and if being the Nº1 in the timetables is your ultimate goal, then use them and stop calling noobs to those who use it. 

I have no ideia how you play, but, following your line of thought, if you want to qualify a time in the timetable, them you have to play with a)assists off, b) cockpit view, c) wheel with soft lock on, allowing at least 1080 degrees, H gearbox + clucth, because every one of this items not used does make DR easier to drive (not necessarily faster).

 

By the way, i do play with full assists off (and i obviously want to be as fast as possible), because i like much more the feel i get (thus my fun factor is alot higher), and i do feel that playing with full TC for example, makes drifting and driving sideways harder (wich can be a good, but also a bad thing), but other players using assits don't bother me at all, i think everybody is entitled to play as they like it more.

 

The only thing i wish codemaster would do, is not to classify those views besides the cockpit views as assists, because this way we really can't see in the community events page who is using real assists (ABS, TC for example)...

 

 

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44 minutes ago, koog2003 said:

@richie now I am working and I cant record a video myself but if you have time give it a quick check. Set all Assists to ON and to the max (5), do one Time trial you usually do and check the difference in the times. We are not talking about some hundredths of a second, we are talking about 15/20 seconds if not more of unfair advantage. Try it yourself. 

Just loaded up the game now:

Spain / Descenso por carretera / Mitsubishi Lancer NR4

 

  • No Assists (what I usually use): 2.17.7
  • All Assists (except gears):  2.21.7

 

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2 minutes ago, Opassac said:

a)assists off, b) cockpit view, c) wheel with soft lock on, allowing at least 1080 degrees, H gearbox + clucth, because every one of this items not used does make DR easier to drive (not necessarily faster).

That is exactly my setup @Opassac. Everything off. Soft lock ON, 1080 degrees. I dont have an H gearbox though. I am just saying (like other people) there should be two separated leaderboards. One for assists on and one for assists off. Exactly like there should be separation between wheel players and joypad players. It makes no sense to mix the results together ..... 

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Are you serious, man? :classic_laugh: I honestly can't believe what I'm reading. How about the guy in 1st found 2 seconds somewhere during a rather long stage? Why isn't that a possibility in your view? 

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12 minutes ago, koog2003 said:

I am not Colin McRae and I am not sure I am as good as you. What would that prove exactly in your opinion ? If I do the same track (regardless the track conditions) with assists on and assists off there is a difference of 10/15 seconds on average. I have tried it myself I am not talking to give air to my lungs .. I have tried it I know what I am talking about !

You keep saying that using assists makes people faster, and you want to prove the point they are faster. I have given you an area where you can prove it, if you can. But as you have just stated, you cant. All you have proven to yourself, is that you can driver faster with the assists on; at your current skill level in game. Nothing more.

12 minutes ago, koog2003 said:

All your speculations about the effects of the assists dont take in consideration the fact that DR2 is not the real world at all and assists are not working the same way they work in real life (not at all). 

Im not talking about IRL driving assists, they work on a far more sophisticated level than they do in a video game. I am talking about the assists as they partain to Dirt Rally 2.0.

12 minutes ago, koog2003 said:

I just ask for two separated leaderboard is it such an awful preposterous unacceptable thing for you ? It makes perfect sense and WE agree with that. Me and a lot of other people and please stop attacking me because it is quite annoying and PLUS it is NOT the first time you are doing this. Sorry to be straight but it is the way I am.

No, you came here to accuse and label people who use assists as cheaters; and talked yourself up as a "pro player" in the process. See below -

1 hour ago, koog2003 said:

You dont understand the point. The point is not eliminating Assists or saying people should not use them. It is about not having their times in the same leaderboard of the pro which are not using ANY assist cause the game is 100x more fun (and realistic) without them. 

What is a shame is having their race times merged with the ones of the pro drivers without assists. This is completely unfair. It is like having two different car classes racing in the same category ! Do you understand now ?

Taken my comments entirely out of context. You know exactly what I mean when I say "do not speak for others". Example below -

1 hour ago, koog2003 said:

If you ask around every good player here would be disgusted just by the idea of using Assists.

This is talking for others, putting words in the mouths of others. Which you dont do, ever. You post your thoughts up, and you allow people to agree or disagree as they please. You dont resort to trying to invalidate opinions that dont agree with you by calling them nazi's, hitler, or some whatever insulting nonsense you can come up with; like below

9 minutes ago, koog2003 said:

THANK YOU JAKE ! I am alone right @lalaeinstein ? Sure. All alone I talk for myself and that is it. Shut up really.

Typical comment I would expect from you. And a posting choice that @PJTierney told you previously not to do anymore.

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2 minutes ago, richie said:

Are you serious, man? :classic_laugh: I honestly can't believe what I'm reading. How about the guy in 1st found 2 seconds somewhere during a rather long stage? Why isn't that a possibility in your view? 

On that you are most likely right @richie. I have deleted my post. You are right that does not have a lot of sense indeed.

Edited by koog2003
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7 minutes ago, koog2003 said:

That is exactly my setup @Opassac. Everything off. Soft lock ON, 1080 degrees. I dont have an H gearbox though. I am just saying (like other people) there should be two separated leaderboards. One for assists on and one for assists off. Exactly like there should be separation between wheel players and joypad players. It makes no sense to mix the results together ..... 

Well koog, then without an H gearbox, your time should not qualify for a 'no assist' timetable, because playing without one plus the clutch, in those cars that historically used it, makes it a lot easier (and probably faster too)...

And calling cheaters to everybody who use assits is really unfair, by the way...

 

 

Edited by Opassac
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@Ialyrn 

1)
Why cant I tag you ?
2) There is no way I am going back to the fight like the last time. Enough with that and sincerely it is pointless to argue between me and you. It wont change things it will annoy people. 
3) Seems really we dont agree on anything. Let's avoid each other and that is it for the good of all. 

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2 minutes ago, Opassac said:

Well koog, then without an H gearbox, your time should not qualify for a 'no assist' timetable, because playing without one plus the clutch, in those cars that historically used it, makes it a lot easier (and probably faster to)...

Buy me one man 🙂 It would be a great gift for Xmas. I do manual shifting on the wheel but I dont have the money to buy the clutch set right now. I would love to have it of course !

Edited by koog2003
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1 hour ago, koog2003 said:

I am pretty sure that with the Assists on I could improve my times of even 20 seconds (if not more) but that is CHEATING man.

Feel free to prove it when you have time 🙂 

 

1 hour ago, koog2003 said:

If you ask around every good player here would be disgusted just by the idea of using Assists.

I'm a "good player" and I'm not disgusted by Assists, no matter what the game.

Outside of specific cars and scenarios (mostly in other games like I mentioned before), specific assists doesn't usually make you little faster. In fact, some games even code in advantages for disabling assists (Forza Motorsport 7  players who use Manual w/Clutch have a big acceleration advantage over all other players).

Assists make a game more accessible to a wider range of players, and judging by the top times on the Leaderboards that matter most (World Series), they are not dominated by Assist users. 

 

1 hour ago, koog2003 said:

I really hope @PJTierney will forward this internally to be fixed once for all. 

I do not see this as something that is "broken", rather that it is something not to your specific preference.

I'd also encourage you to read this: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/what-should-be-banned

 

There is one thing I do agree on from this thread however; it would be nice to see which Assists people used to set their times. In F1 2019 you can not only see Assists, but download that player's tuning setup too and take them on on an even footing.

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10 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

Spain / Descenso por carretera / Mitsubishi Lancer NR4

 

  • No Assists (what I usually use): 2.17.7
  • All Assists (except gears):  2.21.7

 

As soon as I escape the office prison I will get back home and try exactly the same things. Also your times eheh see if I can beat them 😄

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1 minute ago, koog2003 said:

As soon as I escape the office prison I will get back home and try exactly the same things. Also your times eheh see if I can beat them 😄

That's one go with no practice, on an Xbox controller. About 250th on Steam Leaderboard. I'm curious to see if your Assist time is 10 seconds faster than non-Assist 😉 

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1 minute ago, PJTierney said:

There is one thing I do agree on from this thread however; it would be nice to see which Assists people used to set their times. In F1 2019 you can not only see Assists, but download that player's tuning setup too and take them on on an even footing.

Sharing the tuning presets would be AMAZING man and yes I would be very happy just if the leaderboard would display which kind of Assists they have enabled. At least I would know 🙂
Saying this I will never stop stressing how great this game is and how much I am enjoying it. I dont recall in 34 years of video gaming a single one I loved more than DR2. 

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8 minutes ago, koog2003 said:

F1 2019

If it would have VR support I would have already bought it for sure ahahahah 🙂

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Just now, richie said:

NR4 is the class, man. 

OMG you are right ahah my bad I did not notice that. Since that category it is just two cars I never paid attention to it. I am not a rally fanatic and I dont know all the classes in real rally 🙂

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42 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

That's one go with no practice, on an Xbox controller. About 250th on Steam Leaderboard. I'm curious to see if your Assist time is 10 seconds faster than non-Assist

With a joypad ? Wow. I have tried only once or twice to play with a joypad with disastrous consequences.
How are the suggested settings for playing with a joypad ? I'd like to try with a good setup. I have both X-box controller for PC and PS4 controllers for the PS4.  Is there any difference between playing with an xbox controller or with the PS4 one ?

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8 minutes ago, koog2003 said:

How are the suggested settings for playing with a joypad ?

 

Also, Xbox controller is generally better for racing games than DualShock 4.

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2 minutes ago, Opassac said:

No mate, i have the fanatec one... when you can, get one, it makes the game alot more realistic, immersive thus more rewarding... But i think it won't make you faster

Well the change from T-150 to T-300 RS did make me a LOT faster. It is like day and night the difference. So much more precise and the ffb is much more realistic. 

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@PJTierney lol I cannot get less than 02.26 with Subaru NR4. I have tried several times. I believe it is due to you being better than me (highly expectable) and my tuning skills being very very low. Basically I only play with the final drive setting and that is it. And as you guys said ... I did the same times with or without assists. I really did not expect it. I still did not try something that is not tarmac yet.

I am going to test on a different rally like Sweden before saying I was wrong and look stupid.

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12 minutes ago, koog2003 said:

@PJTierney lol I cannot get less than 02.26 with Subaru NR4. I have tried several times. I believe it is due to you being better than me (highly expectable) and my tuning skills being very very low. Basically I only play with the final drive setting and that is it. And as you guys said ... I did the same times with or without assists. I really did not expect it. I still did not try something that is not tarmac yet.

I am going to test on a different rally like Sweden before saying I was wrong and look stupid.

Drive the Evo, the SUBARU requires you to short shift and unless you know that trick it's slower than the Lancer.

 

Also, I drove stock setup, no tuning.

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So it looks like also with snow in Sweden the gap between no assist and assist on is big but opposite to what I have thought ...

Without assists I am 53rd in the world with 03:018:625 on this stage in the NR4 class. With all assists on I do 03:27 at best. Was I very wrong ?

448978516_Screenshot(3).thumb.png.b050665249eddb9e39248214b89dd58d.png

P.s. I'd love to see your time with this stage here @PJTierney 🙂

Edited by koog2003

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8 minutes ago, koog2003 said:

Without assists I am 53rd in the world with 03:018:625 on this stage in the NR4 class. With all assists on I do 03:27 at best. Was I very wrong ?

You may have been wrong, yes 😉 

 

Follow-up questions:

  • What did you feel when driving with assists on?
  • Did the car feel bogged down in certain areas?
  • Was there any part of the course where you felt you were going faster?

 

8 minutes ago, koog2003 said:

P.s. I'd love to see your time with this stage here @PJTierney 🙂

I'm good a Spain, because it's tarmac and I'm a circuit racer 😉 

Sweden I'm very rusty on (haven't driven it since DiRT Rally) so I can't give a consistent metric.

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