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Assists faster vs Non-Assists?

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I really cant imagine being faster with TC or ABS. Engine braking is the answer and TC would just limit the power.

Btw, everyone would be on the assist leaderboard anyway since  its not possible to disable the "auto blip" ingame.

Edited by somethingthing
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3 hours ago, PJTierney said:

Follow-up questions:

  • What did you feel when driving with assists on?
  • Did the car feel bogged down in certain areas?
  • Was there any part of the course where you felt you were going faster?

I anticipate that I had set all assists to on and to the max.

I tried on snow, on tarmac and on gravel. I was wrong I am afraid.

On tarmac the times are almost identical. On snow with assists on I am 9 seconds slower and on gravel same thing.

1) Slower and the car felt unnatural
2) Def bogged in some points
3) I did not feel it faster but I hate driving with the assists because it really takes all the fun out of the experience. It is a rally car ! It has to drift as much as it can ūüôā

Edited by koog2003

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2 hours ago, koog2003 said:

So it looks like also with snow in Sweden the gap between no assist and assist on is big but opposite to what I have thought ...

Without assists I am 53rd in the world with 03:018:625 on this stage in the NR4 class. With all assists on I do 03:27 at best. Was I very wrong ?
 

P.s. I'd love to see your time with this stage here¬†@PJTierney¬†ūüôā

Assists are not easy to use so if you want to use them fully you need to train with them. I can't drive with assists because I don't use them.

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wow a whole thread full of complaining to arrive at this... wow.

4 hours ago, PJTierney said:

Sweden I'm very rusty on (haven't driven it since DiRT Rally) so I can't give a consistent metric.

what is wrong with you? haha Sweden is amazing! 

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48 minutes ago, ianism said:

wow a whole thread full of complaining to arriveÔĽŅ at this... wow.

what is wrong with you? haha Sweden is amazing! 

It was in that 3 month¬†window between owning Standard Edition and getting hired by Codemasters ūüėȬ†

It’s the next official a Club Event though, so I’ll be back at it.

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12 hours ago, PJTierney said:

¬†ūüôāThere is one thing I do agree on from this thread however; it would be nice to see which Assists people used to set their times.¬†

This. Whilst I don't believe any of the Armstrong-esque times you see on the leaderboards are with assists, it'd be a 'removal of doubt' thing. 

Or then again, might be the abject opposite as you won't know if those guys ahead of you using assists were faster because of, or in spite of the assists... 

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using 540 degrees of rotation in a group b car is cheating!! But you can’t stop people doing it!!

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Most of the people extremely high up on the boards do not use assists apart from the popular hood camera (so external views enabled). In this game they slow you down, it was one of the first things I tested when I got the game and then again verified during the NZ R2 qualifier which I extensively practiced (could not keep up with my ghost at all when I started using assists, like not even close). This was having everything enabled, so maybe there is a subset that can yield an advantage but it can't be much. It seems you figured this out by yourself now actually testing it after debating it for two entire pages on this forum.. If you start claiming 15-20 second improvements you better have the proof to back it up. A lot of people don't seem comfortable with the realisation that they are not the best at this game, or come close to being the best. I'm not trying to directly attack you here but there are so many 'assists are unfair everyone can be top 1% with them' or 'man I can't compete because I just don't know the cuts in this game that save 10 seconds a stage easily it's unfair' topics/comments out there it's ridiculous. What you need to do to get high on the boards just comes down to 'git gud'. Slight rant over I guess.

Btw, if you look at the community event section of the DR2.0 website you can filter the daily/weekly/monthly boards by assists vs no assists but it is unclear what 'assists' actually means. I don't run any assists apart from hood camera and I'm listed under no assists. Does anyone know what counts as an 'assist?

Edited by Maxiemwagenaar
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Not sure why you even mention hood cam when talking about assists. It's definitely not an assist, it's a camera angle. An assist is considered to be an electronic help that interferes in certain situations to stabilize the car, such as TCS and ABS, but also ESC (electronic stability control) which I'm not sure we have in DR2.0. 

To those who think 540¬į or 360¬į or whatever is cheating, it's not. If you have no fixed shifter paddles it helps you with shifting gears while turning, that's it. Cheating is if you find fancy potato lines or if you manipulate the code.¬†

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On 12/2/2019 at 3:33 PM, richie said:

it does help you not spinning out but it does not make you faster. 

Spinning out make you slower...

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18 minutes ago, EHY said:

Spinning out make you slower...

Spinning out would definetly be slower than not spinning out while using assists. But using assists in this game is slower than not using them and not spinning out. As @koog2003 proved yesterday when they finally tested it.
 

23 hours ago, koog2003 said:

@Ialyrn 

1)
Why cant I tag you ?
2) There is no way I am going back to the fight like the last time. Enough with that and sincerely it is pointless to argue between me and you. It wont change things it will annoy people. 
3) Seems really we dont agree on anything. Let's avoid each other and that is it for the good of all. 

The only issue I have with you Koog, is that you make these posts and threads without actually thinking properly first; and without clear testing beforehand. As well as your attitude towards others when someone disagrees with you. But that isnt going to stop me from replying to you, and it wont even stop me from trying to help you where I can. You just need to think more before you post is all, and try not to get so angry over the little things that bug you.

I do agree that it should be shown in the LB what people are using, I just didnt agree with the rest of the stuff you was posting. All you have to remember is, the fast people are fast because they drive well. Assists or no assists, it always takes practice first and formost.


 

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40 minutes ago, Ialyrn said:

Spinning out would definetly be slower than not spinning out while using assists. But using assists in this game is slower than not using them and not spinning out. As @koog2003 proved yesterday when they finally tested it.
 

Link please?

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11 minutes ago, EHY said:

Link please?

Link for what? Spinning out means coming to a dead stop in some fashion. Either from a straight up spin, or from spinning and hitting a trackside object. If you use assists and dont spin, your obviously going to be faster than on a run where you previously came to a complete stop. No testing even needs to he done on that one, its just common sense.

If you mean in regards to koog finding out that using assists is slower than not using them, he tested it and posted his findings in this very thread. He found they are slower.

19 hours ago, koog2003 said:

I anticipate that I had set all assists to on and to the max.

I tried on snow, on tarmac and on gravel. I was wrong I am afraid.

On tarmac the times are almost identical. On snow with assists on I am 9 seconds slower and on gravel same thing.

1) Slower and the car felt unnatural
2) Def bogged in some points
3) I did not feel it faster but I hate driving with the assists because it really takes all the fun out of the experience. It is a rally car ! It has to drift as much as it can ūüôā

There is literally no links needed in this case, all relevant information is in this very thread.

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41 minutes ago, Ialyrn said:

If you mean in regards to koog finding out that using assists is slower than not using them, he tested it and posted his findings in this very thread. He found they are slower.

Indeed I was wrong saying assists are giving you an advantage in terms of racing times. I am not the kind of fool that pushes his reasons against the pure evidence. When I am wrong I admit it. I am sorry we had an argument and I would like you to know there are no bad feelings on my side. 
 

Edited by koog2003
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3 hours ago, richie said:

Not sure why you even mention hood cam when talking about assists. It's definitely not an assist, it's a camera angle.

Only mentioned it because it's on the assists tab in the settings as 'external views' and for the sake of completeness. I don't see it as an assist personally but maybe internal game logic thinks otherwise (although I guess not seeing how I was in the assists off section of the community events).

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Awww man I showed up too late to this thread. Everyone is being civil now!! 

But yes, assists (like tuning) can help make a driver more consistent, but by itself is not making the driver "faster" - consistency leads to faster times, not the assists/tune themselves. So if you can be just as consistent without them, you're just as fast, and if you can be more consistent without them, you'll be faster.

@Maxiemwagenaar external cams do not count as assists; it's nice because it gives you two ways to control clubs without completely forcing people out of their normal driving setup. Like the original "Expert Club" before dashcam 2.0 was released...

Edited by Mike Dee
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1 hour ago, Maxiemwagenaar said:

Only mentioned it because it's on the assists tab in the settings as 'external views' and for the sake of completeness. I don't see it as an assist personally but maybe internal game logic thinks otherwise (although I guess not seeing how I was in the assists off section of the community events).

Yup, if it's on the assists tab then it's a bit misleading. You can't blame people calling it an assist either then, I guess. 

Edited by richie

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23 hours ago, koog2003 said:

I anticipate that I had set all assists to on and to the max.

I tried on snow, on tarmac and on gravel. I was wrong I am afraid.

On tarmac the times are almost identical. On snow with assists on I am 9 seconds slower and on gravel same thing.

1) Slower and the car felt unnatural
2) Def bogged in some points
3) I did not feel it faster but I hate driving with the assists because it really takes all the fun out of the experience. It is a rally car ! It has to drift as much as it can ūüôā

I'm agree with you about some assists (Traction cont, off throttle braking and antilock brakes) are bog down the car. According to my experience stability control can improve the time...

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2 hours ago, EHY said:

According to my experience stability control can improve the time...

I have done my tests with all the assists on and to the max. I did not try enabling just one of them at a time.  
@EHY can you test this on gravel, snow and tarmac and see if there are differences in times ? TCS enabled only. 

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54 minutes ago, koog2003 said:

I have done my tests with all the assists on and to the max. I did not try enabling just one of them at a time.  
@EHY can you test this on gravel, snow and tarmac and see if there are differences in times ? TCS enabled only. 

My test setup:

Skoda fabia r5 : Stock setup

 

Monte Carlo: Col de Turini Sprint : 4.73 km : Daytime/ Clear / Dry surface : Winter tires : I tried 4 time each configuration.

Stability control: 5       3:54.531              2.5 seconds faster.

Stability control: off     3:57.046              

 

Australia : Rockton Plains : 6.89km : Daytime/ Clear / Dry surface : Soft tires

Stability control: 5       3:32.748              1.2 second faster.

Stability control: off     3:33.981

 

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20 minutes ago, EHY said:

My test setup:

Skoda fabia r5 : Stock setup

 

Monte Carlo: Col de Turini Sprint : 4.73 km : Daytime/ Clear / Dry surface : Winter tires : I tried 4 time each configuration.

Stability control: 5       3:54.531              2.5 seconds faster.

Stability control: off     3:57.046              

 

Australia : Rockton Plains : 6.89km : Daytime/ Clear / Dry surface : Soft tires

Stability control: 5       3:32.748              1.2 second faster.

Stability control: off     3:33.981

 

Then maybe it might make a little difference after all if you use just TCS and keep everything else off. Of course 2,5 seconds is far from being a problem with the leaderboard's fairity I assume, but it is interesting to notice that with just TCS enabled there is indeed a little advantage. 

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15 hours ago, EHY said:

My test setup:

Skoda fabia r5 : Stock setup

 

Monte Carlo: Col de Turini Sprint : 4.73 km : Daytime/ Clear / Dry surface : Winter tires : I tried 4 time each configuration.

Stability control: 5       3:54.531              2.5 seconds faster.

Stability control: off     3:57.046              

 

Australia : Rockton Plains : 6.89km : Daytime/ Clear / Dry surface : Soft tires

Stability control: 5       3:32.748              1.2 second faster.

Stability control: off     3:33.981

 

Keep in mind both @EHY and @koog2003 that this is about 25 seconds off of the Monte WR pace and about 20 seconds off of the Australia WR pace; about 20 seconds and 15 seconds off of top 20 times respectively.

Not saying it completely negates the point, but unless you are within at the very least 10 seconds of the WR pace I don't think we can draw any conclusive results from this. There is clearly just too much driver error in those times to determine if stability control alone made you faster. It clearly helped make the driver more consistent, but it is still miles behind the fastest pace capable.

This isn't a jab at you or anything, but with such a big gap until the WR there is so much time left on the stage you could find. It'd be difficult to eliminate all the variables with ~20 seconds on the table that could be picked up "for free" regardless of stability control; just getting a slightly cleaner exit line in the right corners could easily gain you a few seconds. 

IMO we are going to need to be comparing close to top 10 WR times of drivers to actually decide if Stability control makes you quicker. We basically need to drive the same exact line each time to test Stability alone - the only way I can think of that is getting top 20 WR times at the very least. Those times have found every "free" second on the stage, they aren't making sloppy entries/exits or making basically any sizable mistakes. At that point I think the drivers' lines would be consistent enough to look into stability control gains/losses

Edited by Mike Dee
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5 hours ago, Mike Dee said:

Keep in mind both @EHY and @koog2003 that this is about 25 seconds off of the Monte WR pace and about 20 seconds off of the Australia WR pace; about 20 seconds and 15 seconds off of top 20 times respectively.

Not saying it completely negates the point, but unless you are within at the very least 10 seconds of the WR pace I don't think we can draw any conclusive results from this. There is clearly just too much driver error in those times to determine if stability control alone made you faster. It clearly helped make the driver more consistent, but it is still miles behind the fastest pace capable.

IMO we are going to need to be comparing top 10 WR times of drivers to actually decide if Stability control makes you quicker.

Spent the night doing runs with different configurations of assists. Hopefully it helps shed some light on things. I was slowest while using Stability control. My second fastest run was with ABS and TCS only, with ABS/TCS/Auto gears at 3rd. The fastest was without ABS/TCS/Stability and with manual gears. ABS/TCS/Stability and just Stability control on its own, are very close. So pretty safe to say it was stability control slowing me down the most; with Auto gears also very close to them.

No assists/Manual gears - 03:04.692
ABS/TCS/Manual gear - 03:07.992
ABS/TCS/Auto gears - 03:09.559
Stability/Manual gears - 03:10.025
ABS/TCS/Stability/Manual gears - 03:10.625

Video containtaining all the runs listed above -

Also, my current leaderboard posistion on the stage used for testing.
1864625268_lbposistion.thumb.png.3b8aecb205d141c67f56de13141800a5.png
@koog2003

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@Ialyrn¬†OK I finally understood the first letter of your nickname is a I not at L and that is why I could not tag you before lol ūüôā

Thank you very much for your tests and confirming that I was really wrong ahaha

I am really impressed by your times man. The best I have managed so far is a 20th place in a stage in Sweden and man I had to sweat a lot to make it. 
I guess you are playing this game a LOT to be so good dude. 
Do you play a lot with the tuning settings of the cars ? I am limited to the final drive which I put shorter or longer depending on the stage. Maybe a part of my problem (being slower) is not only being worse than you as a driver but also maybe not doing basically any tuning affects my times.
If only we would be able to share the tuning presets I would be so happy to test the tunings of the best drivers in this game. It is really something important that is missing in this game IMHO.

Edited by koog2003

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