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Assists faster vs Non-Assists?

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1 hour ago, koog2003 said:

Thank you very much for your tests and confirming that I was really wrong ahaha

Only tested so many of them, as I was testing stabiltity control and figured I may as well do them all.

1 hour ago, koog2003 said:

I am really impressed by your times man. The best I have managed so far is a 20th place in a stage in Sweden and man I had to sweat a lot to make it. 
I guess you are playing this game a LOT to be so good dude. 

Thanks for the compliment. But I have to be honest, I only have 113 hours in DR2.0, and 117 hours in DR1. The reason I am compatant at driving in racing games, is because ive been playing them for 3 decades, and been using a wheel on and off for 2 decades. Its just a lot of general practice over multiple years and a vast library of racing games.

Playtime.png.40763b5cdf4c8297cf310a8a0bfb1221.png
(on my laptop atm and not my desktop, which is why DR2 isnt installed.)

 

1 hour ago, koog2003 said:

Do you play a lot with the tuning settings of the cars ?

It depends on the track/stage and the car. Most of the time though, I drive with the default settings.

 

26 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

Yeah, she's pretty quick

You give me a run for my money on Forza PJ. Would be interested to see what damage you can do to the leaderboards while using a wheel. I saw your post in the Rally school thread.

 

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46 minutes ago, Ialyrn said:

It depends on the track/stage and the car. Most of the time though, I drive with the default settings.

Ok so it is confirmed. I suck 🙂 It is not because of the tuning or not tuning you make awesome times because you are just a lot better than me 🙂

I started doing racing games with the wheel basically since 2 years. Never did anything before, but I dont give up practice is making me better and better. After switching from a t-150 to a t-300 RS my performances improved a lot. 

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15 minutes ago, koog2003 said:

Ok so it is confirmed. I suck 🙂 It is not because of the tuning or not tuning you make awesome times because you are just a lot better than me 🙂

Im just more practiced is all, thats really is all it is. 30 years of racing games will do that. You will get there if you keep at it.

16 minutes ago, koog2003 said:

After switching from a t-150 to a t-300 RS my performances improved a lot.

You need to be careful not to fall into the trap that a more expensive wheel means faster laptimes. I started off with a Microsoft Sidewinder racing wheel, plus I have a G27 and a G920 from logitech. The times I can post, I can do with any of them. The only reason I have a T300 now, is because I wanted 1080° of rotation. A more expansive wheel can give you better feeling FFB from the added torque provided in more expensive equipment, which can make it "easier" to read whats going on. But there are world champs in sim racing out there using nothing but a logitech DFGT, and using that wheel to beat other people using direct drive wheels.

It really isnt about the device you use, but just how much practice you put in, and how effective that practice is. Thats why @PJTierney, when he really goes for it, can post some properly fast times on a control pad. His 250 place time during his tests in this thread is nothing compared to what he can do after a warm up to get back into the groove of things. Especially on a tarmac stage or in a circuit racing game.

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Might be a personal thing but the added precision and the much better ffb of the 300-RS really made me def faster. With the t-150 it was a totally different experience. Again it can be just psychological but as soon as I started with the t-300 I have immediately seen an improvement in terms of racing times. 

Edited by koog2003

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@koog2003

 

Mate, seriously you need to stop ridiculing people who use assists...it seems you have some kind of false superiority complex regarding this. Please be mindful of others when making comments about other players.

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10 hours ago, koog2003 said:

Might be a personal thing but the added precision and the much better ffb of the 300-RS really made me def faster. With the t-150 it was a totally different experience. Again it can be just psychological but as soon as I started with the t-300 I have immediately seen an improvement in terms of racing times. 

No that fully makes sense; you are getting more details out of the game because of it so you can make more informed decisions - that typically also means better decisions. If someone is able to get the same amount of info out of the game with a Logitech DFGT, they won't see much improvement by getting a T300 or an Accuforce DD wheel. 

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I was going to say... assists are designed for people who are worse drivers.

they are going to make an average player faster because they will make the car easier to control so that they make fewer mistakes and therefore lose less time. 

on a good player who does not lose control of the car as often, assists are superfluous, as they're helping in an area that does not need help.

this discussion reminds me of the whole toxic debate we had when the world series qualifiers started. there were multiple people arguing that allowing people who use assists to even set qualifying times was unfair!

 

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On 12/4/2019 at 10:52 PM, KittyFit90 said:

@koog2003

 

Mate, seriously you need to stop ridiculing people who use assists...it seems you have some kind of false superiority complex regarding this. Please be mindful of others when making comments about other players.

@KittyFit90 if you read through the posts you will see that I have made a mistake, I have admitted it and of course apologized for it. 

Edited by koog2003
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1 hour ago, koog2003 said:

I have made a mistake, I have admitted it and of course apologized for it. 

Not many people do that on forums, so well done you 🙂 

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On 12/2/2019 at 1:33 PM, richie said:

No, it's not like having 2 different classes. I really don't know how you come to these conclusions. The point is that 'no assists' isn't necessarily 'pro'. There is the leaderboard, you can set a time there and decide whether you want to use assists or not. There's nothing unfair about it. It's not even clear if any assist gives you an advantage at all. TCS e.g. reduces the power sent to the wheels as soon as it detects slip but it also slows you down because you don't have all the HP available so it does help you not spinning out but it does not make you faster.  

But not with stability control. That only brings advantages.

TCS does slow down on gravel, but not on tarmac.

It's about having a game that's realistic. That's for fun.

 

But the hardware used also makes the competition unfair. I have to rely on the gamepad. Steering is therefore more difficult and the brakes are difficult to dose accurately. I'm setting ABS to 1.

In addition, the view is made much too difficult by rain with the onboard camera.

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4 hours ago, PaulNbg said:

But not with stability control. That only brings advantages.

TCS does slow down on gravel, but not on tarmac.

It's about having a game that's realistic. That's for fun.

 

But the hardware used also makes the competition unfair. I have to rely on the gamepad. Steering is therefore more difficult and the brakes are difficult to dose accurately. I'm setting ABS to 1.

In addition, the view is made much too difficult by rain with the onboard camera.

Stability control does not give advatages, it slows you down. It bogs down the car while sliding on loose surfaces. Only thing it will do, is give you more consistency. But if you are competing for the top spots on the leaderboard, its going to be a hindrence. As I found during my testing the other day. Stability control turned on produced the slowest of the runs I did, running auto gears is faster than stabilty control in DR2.0; according to my testing. See the below quoted post and watch the included video -

On 12/4/2019 at 4:49 AM, Ialyrn said:

Spent the night doing runs with different configurations of assists. Hopefully it helps shed some light on things. I was slowest while using Stability control. My second fastest run was with ABS and TCS only, with ABS/TCS/Auto gears at 3rd. The fastest was without ABS/TCS/Stability and with manual gears. ABS/TCS/Stability and just Stability control on its own, are very close. So pretty safe to say it was stability control slowing me down the most; with Auto gears also very close to them.

No assists/Manual gears - 03:04.692
ABS/TCS/Manual gear - 03:07.992
ABS/TCS/Auto gears - 03:09.559
Stability/Manual gears - 03:10.025
ABS/TCS/Stability/Manual gears - 03:10.625

Video containtaining all the runs listed above -

Also, my current leaderboard posistion on the stage used for testing.
1864625268_lbposistion.thumb.png.3b8aecb205d141c67f56de13141800a5.png
@koog2003

As for TCS on tarmac, the moment you need to do a handbrake turn on a tarmac stage, especially in an AWD car. It will bog down and not power through as required. Stability control will get in the way any moment there is a slide detected also. If you are driving on the limit for the top LB spots, again, it will be a hindrence.

 

Edited by Ialyrn
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@Ialyrnimage.png.5830c1d56e314420136bf386ce67d315.png

How do you do this ? Pardon my ignorance .. I want this too. Is it going to appear only in the video recordings or also in-game ? Thanks !

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1 hour ago, koog2003 said:

@Ialyrnimage.png.5830c1d56e314420136bf386ce67d315.png

How do you do this ? Pardon my ignorance .. I want this too. Is it going to appear only in the video recordings or also in-game ? Thanks !

Just in the video recording im afraid. You can only see it while playing the game, if you have a second monitor in view or play in windowed mode and have it on the same monitor. You wont be able to see it at all in vr. I have it setup to show in the recordings, so that people can see how i use the accelerator and brakes. As well as how fast i am going.

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4 hours ago, somethingthing said:

Can someone thats consistent enough try the difference between h-pattern/clutch + paddles?

My guess is that shifter is slightly quicker. 

Edit: However, if I'm not mistaken the Lancer Evo X has a true sequential gearbox that'd make using the clutch obsolete, which isn't the case with the rest of the field in Gr. A. 

Edited by richie

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27 minutes ago, richie said:

My guess is that shifter is slightly quicker. 

Edit: However, if I'm not mistaken the Lancer Evo X has a true sequential gearbox that'd make using the clutch obsolete, which isn't the case with the rest of the field in Gr. A. 

What makes you guess that? Yes, the mitsubishi is sequential.

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10 minutes ago, somethingthing said:

What makes you guess that? Yes, the mitsubishi is sequential.

Obviously by shifting quicker interruption of engine torque is less which means each time you shift gear you save a fraction of a second. In a long stage that could mean the difference of a few seconds. 

Edited by richie

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2 minutes ago, richie said:

Obviously by shifting quicker interruption of engine torque is less which means each time you shift gear you save a fraction of a second. In a long stage that could mean the difference of a few seconds.  

At the same time you can shift up and down easier which makes it possible to get more speed out of the car when pretty close to a turn where you with a h-shifter would let it jump on redline because you dont want to upshift and then having to let off the wheel just before to downshift. I dont think the car can stall with sequential neither? But it would be interesting to see if someone can make a test. I tried to do a club with the subaru nr4 and using paddles and it felt like i could push more when not having to take the hand off my wheel but im not consistent enough to make an actual test to compare times.

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7 hours ago, somethingthing said:

Can someone thats consistent enough try the difference between h-pattern/clutch + paddles?

Pretty sure hbox + clutch is faster for everything until Group A because DR introduces a fake clutch delay when you use manual sequential in an older car. I'm pretty sure the delay is removed for 2000cc and newer cars though so paddles will be faster there because it's just less time to change gears - mechanically there is less movement which will always be faster.

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Pad question incase anyone has tested this.

 

If I have Clutch Override enabled and shift+clutch simultaneously whenever shifting gears, is there any advantage?

I imagine there’s no advantage and the override is simply there to allow pad players to clutch kick when needed.

 

In Forza Motorsport 7 an intentional advantage is coded into the game to reward players for the extra button press.

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