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Codemasters, what are you doing?

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And so, after a month of not touching the game, I decided to take a ride.
Once again, five minutes later and not even in the middle of the track, I had to switch off the game. The usual headache occurred to me in no time at all. I would say that this is enough for a month or maybe two.
I really can't understand what the developers are doing in the meantime. Reddit and steam forums are full of complaints concerning this issue, a "lock to horizon" option lack in cockpit cam (in 2D obviously, because in VR it already there).
This is why I ask you: Codemasters, could you have a minimum of pride and fix this problem? You should just edit a string within the code, nothing else. This would steal two minutes of your valuable work, at worst.

Greetings, from one of your affectionate customers who spent hundreds of euros to support you even before the game came out.

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9 minutes ago, orangejuiced83 said:

You should just edit a string within the code, nothing else

:classic_laugh:

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51 minutes ago, Mike Dee said:

:classic_laugh:

That part of the code should already be written, considering that in vr the "lock" works perfectly. It would be enough to copy and paste it in the appropriate file (the one dedicated to the 2D version). I can't understand what makes you laugh so much. Did you smoke too much?

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17 minutes ago, orangejuiced83 said:

That part of the code should already be written, considering that in vr the "lock" works perfectly.

Yup, I'll agree with you there. Some code exists which achieves what you are asking for in one very specific implementation and the constraints around that implementation

17 minutes ago, orangejuiced83 said:

It would be enough to copy and paste it in the appropriate file

Aaaand we are back to laughing. If you think code can just be copy and pasted because "it is doing the same thing" you clearly have never worked in any significant capacity on big projects. 

Nothing is ever as simple as "edit the string" or "just copy and paste" the code. Not to mention the sponsors are going to need to fight for priority with the team, no matter how "simple" a fix is, you still need to justify why your fix should come ahead of the other 2 dozen fixes in the backlog.

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1 hour ago, Mike Dee said:

Yup, I'll agree with you there. Some code exists which achieves what you are asking for in one very specific implementation and the constraints around that implementation

Aaaand we are back to laughing. If you think code can just be copy and pasted because "it is doing the same thing" you clearly have never worked in any significant capacity on big projects. 

Nothing is ever as simple as "edit the string" or "just copy and paste" the code. Not to mention the sponsors are going to need to fight for priority with the team, no matter how "simple" a fix is, you still need to justify why your fix should come ahead of the other 2 dozen fixes in the backlog.

Ok, maybe it won't be so easy but almost all the work has already been done. Anyway, this is an issue highlighted on March 14, a couple of weeks after the release of the game and that, precisely because of the date but also because of the amount of complaints around the web, should take priority over to other.

N.B. I said "issue" because it seems more like a programming error than anything else. And the "no shake" entry in the "camera shake" settings leaves no room for further considerations.

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11 hours ago, orangejuiced83 said:

And the "no shake" entry in the "camera shake" settings leaves no room for further considerations.

In case you don't already know this: "no shake" means the interior is fixed in relation the camera, making the outside world shake around a lot. Setting it to "max shake" and the outside world shakes less, while the interior moves around - it's not 'lock to horizon', but moves in that direction. It helped me get accustomed to Argentina and be able to drive there. Not perfect, but a workaround for me for the time being. HTH

Codies are still fixing things, and like Mike said, nothing is an easy and quick fix in software development, so I'm hopeful this'll get better eventually.

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54 minutes ago, jotomo said:

In case you don't already know this: "no shake" means the interior is fixed in relation the camera, making the outside world shake around a lot. Setting it to "max shake" and the outside world shakes less, while the interior moves around - it's not 'lock to horizon', but moves in that direction. It helped me get accustomed to Argentina and be able to drive there. Not perfect, but a workaround for me for the time being. HTH

Codies are still fixing things, and like Mike said, nothing is an easy and quick fix in software development, so I'm hopeful this'll get better eventually.

I know very well that this setting serves to fix the interior in relation to the camera, but I can't understand the meaning of all this: a "lock" (like the current one) should fix the whole image and not just a part of it. Or you allow it to move in its entirety (internal and external) or lock it completely. Is it correct?

Oh, I forgot: because of this problem I, like many others, am losing all the online part, both the daily (or weekly) and the world championship. Is that right, given the fact that I paid the game like everyone else?
 

Edited by orangejuiced83

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3 hours ago, orangejuiced83 said:

Oh, I forgot: because of this problem I, like many others, am losing all the online part, both the daily (or weekly) and the world championship. Is that right, given the fact that I paid the game like everyone else?

so because of a problem that you find unbearable, you are choosing to not play. most of us don't think of this as an issue so we are still playing a ton (this is one of the first times i have seen people complaining about this issue, and as you can tell from my post count I am here a lot - I joined after DR2 came out). you are trying to make yourself sound like the victim of some terrible crime that prevents you from.... playing a video game! it is your choice to not play because of one thing. it's not a question of ethics lol: "is that right" is irrelevant

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1 hour ago, ianism said:

most of us don't think of this as an issue so we are still playing a ton

Probably because most of this forum plays with the keyboard (you) and controller using the external camera. Those who play in vr don't have this problem because the camera is already locked to horizon. Then, of course, there are those who are not sensitive to bumps and for them this can never be a problem. "It takes all sorts", the old saying says, and for this reason I cannot criticize those who think differently from me.

1 hour ago, ianism said:

this is one of the first times i have seen people complaining about this issue, and as you can tell from my post count I am here a lot - I joined after DR2 came out

Sssh..I'll tell you a secret: the eyes serve to observe and the brain to reflect before opening the mouth. Look here:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/690790/discussions/0/1798529872643278031/

https://forums.codemasters.com/topic/43579-a-small-request-to-devs-lock-to-horizon-option/

https://forums.codemasters.com/topic/34788-lock-onboard-camera-to-horizon-dirt-rally-20/

https://amp.reddit.com/r/dirtgame/comments/brzztg/dirt_rally_20_would_benefit_from_better_1st/

If you are looking for it you will find many others on the web.

1 hour ago, ianism said:

you are trying to make yourself sound like the victim of some terrible crime that prevents you from.... playing a video game!

Victim of some terrible crimes, me? Hahahaha..fanboy spotted.

 

 

Edited by orangejuiced83
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1 hour ago, orangejuiced83 said:

Sssh..I'll tell you a secret: the eyes serve to observe and the brain to reflect before opening the mouth. Look here:

And I'll tell you a secret - just because some people posted about it almost an entire year ago, doesn't mean many people are having problems with it. No one is saying it wouldn't be a nice to have, but there are very few people who are saying it is required to even play. Very few people are so turned off by it that they won't even play the game like you.

 

1 hour ago, orangejuiced83 said:

Probably because most of this forum plays with the keyboard (you) and controller using the external camera.

And please don't bring that kind of **** in here. People play how they want to play, it doesn't invalidate anything. But for the record, a lot of the drivers here have fairly expensive setups and even they aren't complaining about it. So if the people on $20 keyboards don't have any issue with it, the people on $50 gamepads are cool with it, and the drivers in their $2,000 rigs haven't had any serious problems - maybe you should reevaluate how "bad" it really is.

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47 minutes ago, Mike Dee said:

And I'll tell you a secret - just because some people posted about it almost an entire year ago, doesn't mean many people are having problems with it. No one is saying it wouldn't be a nice to have, but there are very few people who are saying it is required to even play. Very few people are so turned off by it that they won't even play the game like you.

 

And please don't bring that kind of **** in here. People play how they want to play, it doesn't invalidate anything. But for the record, a lot of the drivers here have fairly expensive setups and even they aren't complaining about it. So if the people on $20 keyboards don't have any issue with it, the people on $50 gamepads are cool with it, and the drivers in their $2,000 rigs haven't had any serious problems - maybe you should reevaluate how "bad" it really is.

You should quote my entire statement and not just what it's convenient for you. I reiterated precisely that the world is varied and, for this reason, I would never allow myself to criticize a preference or a request of others. Read it again better and you will understand the meaning.
Regarding the first part of your answer, forgive me but I can't understand the meaning of your statement with respect to the topic and your interest in it.

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Damn, I just realized, I hope lock to horizon can be turned off in VR.  or that's going to break the immersion for me once I get a headset ... 😕             In terms of non VR, yeah it's not really a massive issue for most people that you can't lock your horizon.  It's a little bit of a rarity that people who like rallying want a very smooth experience in terms of car and horizon shake.  It's a bit of the experience of rallying, that the real sport is a fair bit violent in the car.           having the feature might be a good thing for the minority, but yeah, definitely a small minority from what I can see and reason.    Just sucks that it affects some people very negatively like @orangejuiced83      People don't choose to get headaches or get dizzy from games, but it is what it is.

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3 hours ago, bn880 said:

Damn, I just realized, I hope lock to horizon can be turned off in VR.  or that's going to break the immersion for me once I get a headset ... 😕             In terms of non VR, yeah it's not really a massive issue for most people that you can't lock your horizon.  It's a little bit of a rarity that people who like rallying want a very smooth experience in terms of car and horizon shake.  It's a bit of the experience of rallying, that the real sport is a fair bit violent in the car.           having the feature might be a good thing for the minority, but yeah, definitely a small minority from what I can see and reason.    Just sucks that it affects some people very negatively like @orangejuiced83      People don't choose to get headaches or get dizzy from games, but it is what it is.

Yeah, surely I am part of the minority and as you have well said it is impossible for me to control that sense of sickness. I just wish I could play this game like everyone else, even a year away. That's all. I confess that I have an oculus rift, which I wore for two hours at most and put it aside for dust.

Aaand then you are there, you who want to feel shaken to the right and to the left and able to withstand thunder and lightning. A superhero in practice. 😉

Here, I was referring to this when I said that "the world is beautiful right because it is varied".

Sorry for my bad english.

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I agree with you,  they may need to put the horizon lock in as an assist if they do add it in,  but yeah I am not against people who can't stand the shaking being able to enjoy this game.

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I bought the trackir 5 thinking to bypass the "lock" problem (considering that in vr the lock is fully functional) but I found, in spite of myself, that the problem persists even with this peripheral installed. Codemasters, you are unique for your works left in half.

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3 hours ago, orangejuiced83 said:

I bought the trackir 5 thinking to bypass the "lock" problem (considering that in vr the lock is fully functional) but I found, in spite of myself, that the problem persists even with this peripheral installed. Codemasters, you are unique for your works left in half.

Oh yeah, TrackIR won't really create a lock to horizon for you, but with max head shake enabled it can help.  But I agree, it's there for VR so I guess it should be possible to enable it without, however as an assist as I think I mentioned before.  because a lot of people who don't even get sick will just use it as an advantage in competition.

 

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If I understand correctly, there is a 'lock on the horizon'-feature (more or less) for the VR players to help prevent motion sickness which is completely understandable. When you don't have a VR headset, like myself, the 'lock on the horizon'-feature is not necessary as motion sickness is no issue in this case.

There are barely any large scale complaint threads about not having this feature implemented for non-VR users:

  • link 1 = 9 reactions
  • link 2 = 2 pages (mostly you posting)
  • link 3 = 1 reaction
  • link 4 = 29 comments

This is clearly an example of a feature which is barely asked for and thus isn't anywhere to be found on the priority list of the devs which is clearly the correct move. There are other, more important issues and features that are worth their time, money and effort.

I, personally, drive at an extremely high level and have several WR's using the cockpit cam. That does not prevent you from competing at a high level or anything of the sort. You also quit after playing just a few minutes. How do you expect to get used to it if you only play a few minutes?

My advice to you is, drive for a decent amount of time, adjust the camera settings to what comes closest to your preference and start by driving on roads like Spain to start off with and then build up towards the bumpiest of stages like those in Argentina.

Edited by SRD_SimVansevenant
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9 hours ago, bn880 said:

Oh yeah, TrackIR won't really create a lock to horizon for you, but with max head shake enabled it can help.  But I agree, it's there for VR so I guess it should be possible to enable it without, however as an assist as I think I mentioned before.  because a lot of people who don't even get sick will just use it as an advantage in competition.

 

I read somewhere that the trackir had the lock as on the vr and for this reason I thought about buying it. But obviously they were wrong.
I have already tried, as you suggest, with max head shake enable but I find the current no shake setting more comfortable for me, with trackir and without it.
Yeah, I totally agree with you that a lock option would also be an advantage because it would allow more focus on the track.

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9 hours ago, SRD_SimVansevenant said:

If I understand correctly, there is a 'lock on the horizon'-feature (more or less) for the VR players to help prevent motion sickness which is completely understandable. When you don't have a VR headset, like myself, the 'lock on the horizon'-feature is not necessary as motion sickness is no issue in this case.

There are barely any large scale complaint threads about not having this feature implemented for non-VR users:

  • link 1 = 9 reactions
  • link 2 = 2 pages (mostly you posting)
  • link 3 = 1 reaction
  • link 4 = 29 comments

This is clearly an example of a feature which is barely asked for and thus isn't anywhere to be found on the priority list of the devs which is clearly the correct move. There are other, more important issues and features that are worth their time, money and effort.

I, personally, drive at an extremely high level and have several WR's using the cockpit cam. That does not prevent you from competing at a high level or anything of the sort. You also quit after playing just a few minutes. How do you expect to get used to it if you only play a few minutes?

My advice to you is, drive for a decent amount of time, adjust the camera settings to what comes closest to your preference and start by driving on roads like Spain to start off with and then build up towards the bumpiest of stages like those in Argentina.

The motion sickness is a disorder that occurs regardless of whether you use vr or not. It is an unwanted and persistent reaction in some people. I have about 140 hours of play and I would say that I did not stop in the first few minutes of discomfort. I tried and tried again but I just can't get used to it. And this is not my guess but it is a fact.
In any case, it seems to me correct to give priority to liveries, to the introduction of new achievements and to any paid dlc rather than inserting two lines of ready-made code. Probably it would be appropriate to have a little more respect towards those who have spent thousands of euros over the years to support a company that, at this point, does not deserve anything.

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On 12/13/2019 at 7:01 PM, bn880 said:

Damn, I just realized, I hope lock to horizon can be turned off in VR.  or that's going to break the immersion for me once I get a headset ... 😕             In terms of non VR, yeah it's not really a massive issue for most people that you can't lock your horizon.  It's a little bit of a rarity that people who like rallying want a very smooth experience in terms of car and horizon shake.  It's a bit of the experience of rallying, that the real sport is a fair bit violent in the car.           having the feature might be a good thing for the minority, but yeah, definitely a small minority from what I can see and reason.    Just sucks that it affects some people very negatively like @orangejuiced83      People don't choose to get headaches or get dizzy from games, but it is what it is.

For me in VR - Lock horizon off - instant nausea. No such problem in 2D

Edited by virgism
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I'd love to see a 'look to apex' feature in the regular, non-VR version. IE a horizontal camera lock-to-road feature. You could set the percentage of this - like in Project Cars 2.

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2 hours ago, virgism said:

For me in VR - Lock horizon off - instant nausea. No such problem in 2D

I actually find it less nauseating.  I've been driving also with TrackIR for months and that has no lock to horizon, VERY comfortable for me so I think that's why it carries over to VR.  Everyone's different it seems.   With lock to horizon in VR I get super sick.

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14 hours ago, SRD_SimVansevenant said:

This is clearly an example of a feature which is barely asked for and thus isn't anywhere to be found on the priority list of the devs which is clearly the correct move. There are other, more important issues and features that are worth their time, money and effort.

I, personally, drive at an extremely high level and have several WR's using the cockpit cam. That does not prevent you from competing at a high level or anything of the sort. You also quit after playing just a few minutes. How do you expect to get used to it if you only play a few minutes?

My advice to you is, drive for a decent amount of time, adjust the camera settings to what comes closest to your preference and start by driving on roads like Spain to start off with and then build up towards the bumpiest of stages like those in Argentina.

It's a medical condition that affects a lower percentage of the population than VR sickness.  It just depends if Codies want to make the game even more accessible.   The way you talk about it is like its something that the affected person should suck up, because you think you did.  That's how it comes across.   There are people with genuine issues with motion sickness even in 2D.  It doesn't mean Codies are obligated by law to provide a solution for them.   In any case, I think the point of humanity overall is that you don't gang up on the people with medical issues or also disabilities, but you come together to help them.  So lets try not just saying "you're an outlier".  as that's also how other forms of discrimination rear their heads.

 

Edit: Also please note that I'm not saying this is a disability, because it's not.  It just wasn't part of human evolution where you'd artificially zip around without moving.

Edited by bn880
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9 hours ago, bn880 said:

It's a medical condition that affects a lower percentage of the population than VR sickness.  It just depends if Codies want to make the game even more accessible.   The way you talk about it is like its something that the affected person should suck up, because you think you did.  That's how it comes across.   There are people with genuine issues with motion sickness even in 2D.  It doesn't mean Codies are obligated by law to provide a solution for them.   In any case, I think the point of humanity overall is that you don't gang up on the people with medical issues or also disabilities, but you come together to help them.  So lets try not just saying "you're an outlier".  as that's also how other forms of discrimination rear their heads.

 

Edit: Also please note that I'm not saying this is a disability, because it's not.  It just wasn't part of human evolution where you'd artificially zip around without moving.

The tone of my post is not that people that have motion sickness should suck it up. That's what you read into it but is never stated in my text.

I am fully aware that motion sickness is a medically aknowledged phenomenon but the situation with games in VR and 2D differ because of the intensity. The motion your body undergoes and your brain perceives is different from what your brain expects to perceive. The effects in 2D are way less influencial than those in VR. I must mention that I did try VR out for a few hours a while back and I felt quite nauseous after a while and had to stop. What my body felt and my brain perceived was completely out of sync. I don't have that feeling at all in 2D.

What I did mean is that it only affects an extremely small percentage of the player base and the devs can't make the game available for every person with a type of disorder. I, myself, have severe ADD and wouldn't mind shorter stages as on the longest stages I can't keep my concentration up all the way to the end. However that won't happen so what I do, is look for ways to overcome my disadvantage with different techniques and strategies.

Edited by SRD_SimVansevenant

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