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Autosport Corner Cutting

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But still, if u have all four wheel outside white line and don't gain, you are not penalized?
That's correct, no gain = no penalty

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NFS Shift had a good system where if your tyres went on the grass at a corner you would get a 5 sec penalty and your gear would drop back to 1st.
yeah it's hard to control a car that's off line in Shift and  hard to recover it too not suer about the 5 second penalty but it definetly slows you down and makes things hard to control when you make a mistake as when I've done some of the one on one races it's certainly cost me a few of those

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How about penalties for the online game, but the GRID consequences in lieu of penalties in the career game?

Frank

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Loore said:

In multiplayer, we ghost players who have incurred a penalty, so they can’t block you

 

But they probably will block someone ? XD

Imagine this scenario Loore, which is going to happen many times to many autosport players :
- race starts as normal with everyone holding position through corner 1.

- players form a single conga line heading for corner 2, lead car goes way off track before corner 2 ignoring it completly taking a large advantage in time over the 2nd placed car.

- lead car rejoins track still in 1st position but receives corner cut penalty - reduced speed and ghost form.

- the players in 2nd 3rd and 4th position decide to drive through the now penalized ghosting lead car, with the conga line following closely on optimum racing line.

so my question is this Loore : at what point does the ghost car become solid ? does it spawn in mid pack infront of people who had no idea a slow moving car would "spawn" infront of them, causing pile ups + spins, forcing them to use flashbacks?

No doubt ghosting a car receiving a corner cut penalty in autosport is an improvement on the Grid2 sudden brick wall car penalty, which led to instant pile ups and frustration for everyone behind the car receiving the penalty (especially more so in hardcore), it remains imo a very poor way to penalise anyone during gameplay, because more often than not it will have a negative gaming experience on usually more than one players who are unable to avoid becoming involved with the result of the car receiving the penalty that is moving at an unrealistic and extremely slow speed. 

Anyone that played grid2 for long enough will have experienced such frustrating situations - turning into an upcoming corner with good speed only to have an extemely slow moving car "spawn" right beside your car - causing you both to slam into the upcoming corner - which caused any amount of cars following closely to also become involved in an unavoidable pile up at the corner.

This process is then hillariously repeated as multiple flashbacks are used by the players involved at the initial pile up and players who were further at the back of the pack receive this group of "spawning" cars around them, who are almost forced to use flashbacks themselves through no fault of their own as cars spawn around them mid corner. It is really not uncommen for just 1 player to make a mistake and receive a corner cut penalty or use a flashback to force everyone else to do likewise.

Grid2 had many problems, one of them was frustrating gameplay from such situations. I have played long enough to see many groups of friends joining games together at low level and leaving together mid race, after cursing at the game mechanics.

The bottom line for you at Codemasters is such frustrated players will rarely stick around long enough to buy the inevitable 3:99euro McLaren P1 DLC :p

So what are the alternatives? how about players receiving a "dirty tyre" icon on screen after they go off track, the longer they stay off track, the longer the duration that this penalty persists - which causes lack of traction in corners and reduced acceleration and top speed as the wheels fail to grip.

Going off track for 2 - 3 seconds and the dirty tyres penalty could last around half a lap.

An off track trip of 4 - 6 seconds and the player could receive such a penalty for 1 lap duration until the tyres clean themselves up, as they do in real life, as long as they remain on track. Players who continuously corner cut, or continue to stay off track could receive this penalty multiple times which would also stack, "encouraging" the player to stay on track in future.

I understand that some tracks will not always have grass and earth around the track such as yas marina, but this penalty could be explained as running offtrack into dirty tarmac areas that have rubber "marbles" that we see in formula1 / indycar etc, resulting in the same "dirty tyres" penalty. Perhaps this could be described as "unrealistic" but it is far more realistic than what is being proposed for autosport, which has Harry Potter waving his wand at flashbacking / corner cutting penalized cars and casting the spell "makeus invisableus" and Hermoine casting "makeus solidus" a few seconds later :p

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It'll become solid once the penalty is over and no other cars are clipping into it at the time. Bear in mind although the car is ghosted, it is still visible, so drivers following behind will be able to take appropriate avoiding action.

If they choose not to take that action and try and drive through the ghost, which happens to stop ghosting at the wrong moment... well, they've literally attempted to drive through another car, that's not a good idea! :) We ghost cars during a penalty so that cars very close behind that have no chance to get out of the way don't get into a crash. It doesn't replace the need for common sense and giving each other racing room. That's true of any system.

The other important factor is the way the penalty is applied has been adjusted significantly since GRID 2. Speed will gradually bleed off the cars being penalised, they won't suddenly slow to 30mph. So the likelihood of coming across a recently unghosted car with a dangerous difference in speed is much lower.

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Thx for a fast and clear responce Britpoint :)

I do have another question : has there been any Autosport in game footage released yet (or plans to do so) of a full grid race involving non AI cars?

All the footage I have seen so far from the Blog and Youtube footage shows single player racing against AI cars only, talking about handling and set ups etc - which is great - but I would love to see how an Autosport race pans out with full grid of non AI drivers, to see how these game mechanics such as the new corner cutting mechanic affect other players. I believe it would give a good perspective of true gameplay to people currently sitting on the fence who are thinking about purchasing this game.

I believe you did something similar before Grid2 release, showing codemaster employees all driving NSX's on Algarve, appologies if such footage is already out there, and any link would be appreciated.

 

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We're hoping to kick off our live streams next week all going to plan. We've also got some straight gameplay videos that we're currently working on.

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Loore said:

Hey all, we've been watching this thread and talking about it ourselves and the one thing we didn't want to do was to come back with a one sentence answer that maybe caused more questions than it answered.

James, our Chief Designer (his forum account is WIP) has magic'd up some words, of which you’ll find them below.

//Enter James

Hi all,

We’re really flat out at the moment trying to close the game, so apologies for being a bit quiet in the last week. However, we couldn’t help notice the corner cutting thread, and wanted to give some more information on this, because I understand why it’s a concern.

We’ve made a lot of changes since GRID2, and only some of those were present in the announce code builds (from which the recent YouTube gameplay footage was taken). That announce code is 2-3 months old now, and the game has advanced a great deal since then.

We’re still balancing it now, but here’s a list of changes that have occurred:

  • You now need to have all 4 wheels across the white line to incur a penalty. We’ve fixed this since the announce build was created
  • You only incur a penalty if you’ve gained an advantage for going off track. If you re-join the track no better off than driving at full speed on the driving line, you won’t get a penalty.
  • The penalty is proportionate to the amount of advantage gained, so tiny, accidental cuts of the white lines will only slow you down a little before you get up to full power
  • The off track surfaces are much more realistic than they were in GRID2, where you could pretty much hold full speed even off road. In Autosport, you’ve got a realistic amount of grip and slowdown on grass, gravel etc, which makes it pretty tricky to drive off road and gain an advantage
  • In multiplayer, we ghost players who have incurred a penalty, so they can’t block you
You may also have noticed that we apply penalties in a smoother, less jarring way than GRID2.

Hope this is useful and interesting information, and I’m sure you’ll get to see this in action as and when we’re doing live streams further down the line.

//End James, Loore service resumed

@Loore, got my first wheel (Logitech DFGT) in anticipation of autosport and was playing the original grid with it today. Was taking a hairpin corner smoothly when an AI bumped me off the road and across the white lines at the inside of the hairpin bend. I was still able to complete the corner but as told I had all four wheels across the white line. Though in original Grid there was no such penalty, but I was immediately reminded of this comment of yours on corner cutting and all four wheels being across the white line. What will happen in such a situation when I went outside the white lines not because of my own actions? Will it be taken as corner cutting?

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Good question. In MP even more important, as it will happen a lot.

Are there any systems for un- or intentional pushing ?


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Usually when you are pushed off the track it's rare for you to gain an advantage (quite the opposite I find) so you shouldn't find yourself getting a corner cutting penalty.

If on the off chance you do gain an advantage you will still get a penalty applied.

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Thanks for the answer. I still hope that in case community finds some problematic penalties you guys will patch it. :)

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Another thing about the penalties - if you're judged to have gained half a second, you'll only get a penalty worth half a second. It no longer multiplies the time gained as it did in the earlier preview builds. So minor infractions caused by being shoved off track will only earn minor penalties.

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Btw, when can we expect some live streams?
E3 delayed things last week, hoping to get something up soon.

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Britpoint said:
Another thing about the penalties - if you're judged to have gained half a second, you'll only get a penalty worth half a second. It no longer multiplies the time gained as it did in the earlier preview builds. So minor infractions caused by being shoved off track will only earn minor penalties.
Have you checked every scenario to ensure that the penalty can't be abused in some form and that it correctly detects deliberate (but technically non-advantageous) corner cutting?

I say this because it's a well-known shortcut now - the quick and tight left/right/left after the 2nd straight on Yas Marina is usually taken by people just running off at the straight and rejoining after the series of corners. In terms of corner-cutting code it's slower so it rarely detects and punishes people, but it ends up as an advantage as you rejoin the track at a higher speed and quickly make up and gain time compared to people taking the chicanes properly.


There are things like that that I hope you've been able to look into and fix; we don't want people cutting corners and chicanes like on Grid 1's Spa and Grid 2's yas marina. :/

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Assetto Corsa's punishing system works quite well for the minor cuts i.e. running wide over a kerb.  The car runs slow for 5 seconds, or until you slow down to 30mph, whichever comes sooner.  Also, the 5 seconds penalty doesn't start until you rejoin the track, which means you still run slow on the grass and run offs etc. 

I hope GAS does have a better system than what was in G2 though, that game was harsh for what was quite often a 3 side-by-side cars into a corner.  We managed well with G1 without the penalties, but we certainly do need something for those big cuts on tracks like Spa.

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Toca 2 had the best system - sticky grass in just the right places. Toca 3 was a mess. never played grid - tried the demo, lost me as a customer. Keeping my fingers crossed this version gets it right. Been waiting forever for a toca 2 experience. will wait till the real player  reviews come out.

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I hope corner cutting doesn't go too far - otherwise there'll be none of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5Xg9CnuXGM&list=UUx0yQ-_DRHBcaCe1v55GXew&feature=share&index=21

Can't wait for the TT competitions to start again :D

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^ On the street courses pretty much everything is fair game. Ride those kerbs to your heart's content! :)

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