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Behavioral difference between career AI and AI private League !

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I currently play in career mode and in private league, at the same level of AI (79) and in private league the behavior of the AI is horrible, it takes again the ideal trajectory whatever happens, even if we are close of her ...

 puts us outside ...

in career AI is much smarter and more realistic ... battles are more fun ... Why this difference ??

 

Not to mention the fact that in a league 98% of contacts ...

 even when the AI enters us during a head or a tail or even when braking before the stands ...

It is we who take a penalty!

 

Edited by BarryBL
edited to make smaller to match forum text size
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3 hours ago, Dehel said:

I currently play in career mode and in private league, at the same level of AI (79) and in private league the behavior of the AI is horrible, it takes again the ideal trajectory whatever happens, even if we are close of her ...

 puts us outside ...

in career AI is much smarter and more realistic ... battles are more fun ... Why this difference ??

 

Not to mention the fact that in a league 98% of contacts ...

 even when the AI enters us during a head or a tail or even when braking before the stands ...

It is we who take a penalty!

 

did he write it big? :classic_biggrin:

but, it's a good point. I don't play career, so I was wondering how people could play it if the AI was as **** as it is in GP mode.

Edited by steviejay69
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16 hours ago, Dehel said:

I currently play in career mode and in private league, at the same level of AI (79) and in private league the behavior of the AI is horrible, it takes again the ideal trajectory whatever happens, even if we are close of her ...

 puts us outside ...

in career AI is much smarter and more realistic ... battles are more fun ... Why this difference ??

 

Not to mention the fact that in a league 98% of contacts ...

 even when the AI enters us during a head or a tail or even when braking before the stands ...

It is we who take a penalty!

 

exactly the same problems in our private league too.. AI, damage and penalties are just horrible. We tried every single option, AI level, different cars (2019 and multiplayer cars ), damage level or rules... nothing helps.

AI stick to the racing line no matter what.  AI vs AI no accidents, no touching, no driving mistakes...absolutely nothing!!!

they follow the racing line and have always a minimum gap between the cars to avoid a contact. And if there would be a contact, suddenly they are ghosting and nothing happens...

But if one of us is driving next to them....they bump you out of track every time, without getting any damage or penalty.

 

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Hi @Dehel,

Can you provide video comparisons when possible please? Helps us see if there is any differences.

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2 hours ago, BarryBL said:

Hi @Dehel,

Can you provide video comparisons when possible please? Helps us see if there is any differences.

It's complicated to show on video for me ... If someone knows how to do that, it would be good ... the difference is especially on overtaking braking ... in career the AI shifts if we are next, and just leaves the place it takes ... in league ..it resumes the ideal trajectory even if we are nearby and we go out ...Sometimes in a straight line ... we get to be outside before the turn and the AI inside, side by side ... at the end the AI back on the outside (and therefore on us) to take its ideal trajectory

 

Edited by Dehel

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@BarryBL I and my league can confirm this, its hard to get video of it, its best to race and try it. The Ai in league mode seem to be a more 'dumbed down' follow each other type of AI then you kind of get in their way and they hit you.

Would it be possible to also ask the team to look at the league AI retirement frequency/make mistake frequency as they never seem to retire or collide with each other or spin go off track by making mistake, like they do in off-line mode

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@barrybl 

Have you been able to see this problem? Was it mentioned at codemasters?

Edited by Dehel

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@Dehel hello.

Do you really think what AI in career mode is perfect? They are doing no mistakes, can't change trajectory, boring.

When i try to overtake them on staight line, they are just help me to pass, shifting to another edge of track.

I think the rate of AI mistakes should be increased.

@BarryBL Can you help us? If i reinstall the game can it helps?

Edited by Enlate
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Hi @Enlate

If you feel there is a genuine bug with the game, then I will need comparative videos of the AI in the same scenarios that demonstrates a genuine difference. Reinstalling the game will make no difference to AI behaviour.

However, from your last post, this does sound more like a suggestion than a bug. That's fine btw, I can also mention that to the developers. 

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On 2/8/2020 at 8:26 AM, Enlate said:

I think the rate of AI mistakes should be increased.

THIS.

 

Furthermore, imo, it would be beneficial to get more of a "AI Driver Personality" ingrained into each individual AI of the whole grid, meaning that we see Ricciardos AI to be more brave on braking zones, Verstappens and Magnussens AI being more aggressive and more likely to push the player off track, Perez being more gentle on the tires, Lewis being a beast that gets multiple Pole Laps in Qualifying over the year whilst having a slow start into the season but gradually getting stronger towards the middle of it, Stroll being able to do mediocre or poor in Qualifying but always having great starts and good racecraft to make up for the lost positions during the race, Grosjean having a tendency to take himself out in mysterious ways, Vettel doing the occasional pirouette during the season, Verstappen and Stroll being exceptionally good drivers in changing or wet conditions etc. etc. etc.

 

AI should feel differently so that each virtual driver has their own personality and can be distinctively recognized just by seeing their real time behavior on track as accurately represented as possible, this would increase immersion and realism tenfold, giving more depth to offline races and career mode as well as making online races, with AI turned on, less annoying.

 

Hope such a "AI Driver Personality" feature might be considered for the next gen titles.

Edited by TheEmpireWasRight
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I don't play career but in leagues the Ia just follow his line no matter what happens around them. If you attack from the inside you maybe can survive but if you are outside they push you out of the track 100% sure. They seem to give space entering the corner but exiting It they just follow their line. Ill try yo make a video.

Its a pity 

Edited by pedrosdt
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11 hours ago, pedrosdt said:

I don't play career but in leagues the Ia just follow his line no matter what happens around them. If you attack from the inside you maybe can survive but if you are outside they push you out of the track 100% sure. They seem to give space entering the corner but exiting It they just follow their line. Ill try yo make a video.

Its a pity 

exactly my words!

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I was the red Bull, force India was AI.

They never give space in these cases, maybe im not clearly ahead but he isnt as well, would have been funnier if the ai  fights for possition cleanly instead of acting as if i wasnt there

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I mean it is very obvious that the singleplayer AI is not the same as the multiplayer "AI"
Don't need video's for that. Codemasters has to be aware of the issue.

The ai cars have to be ran on the hosts pc. so i would be interested to see if the ai maybe does react to the host in a different way. 

But it's clear these are "sleep mode" "minimum system resource using" bots. 

 

@BarryBL Would it be possible for someone with insight on the workings of the game to react to topics like this? that would be so helpful. 
Online bots being not the same as offline ai has been the case in this game since the start of the series, 
and you not admitting it but asking for another video does not really help nor make the company look good. It's just the stalling and distracting again. 



It would just be such a refreshing display of honesty if a question like this would for once have an honest answer like: 
Even though we're masters, we are unable to code for you the same level quality of ai opponents for online as in offline play. 
and then offer an explanation.
(e.g. -not enough people use bots online to make it worth,
-it is hard to have the host's bots react to other people,
-the hosts pc will lag if they're too complicated,
-we don't know how to do it
-etc.) 

 

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16 hours ago, pedrosdt said:

I was the red Bull, force India was AI.

They never give space in these cases, maybe im not clearly ahead but he isnt as well, would have been funnier if the ai  fights for possition cleanly instead of acting as if i wasnt there

Hi @pedrosdt, With regards to your video clip, the Online AI and Offline AI play the exact same incident the same way under replication. In regards to this, I hope to have a more detailed answer shortly.

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it's almost impossible to show on video the AI problem especially during a race...( share during a race... no thanks)
 ! and no it's not the same in career mode...but it's just as impossible that codemasters by doing one or two league races don't realize the problem themselves instead of asking us for proof..

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I think what Barry means is that there is no difference in AI calculations between modes.

Most likely "more stupid AI" is caused by the latency and processing that goes into handling multiple players and trying to sync between them. 

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52 minutes ago, Dehel said:

it's almost impossible to show on video the AI problem especially during a race...( share during a race... no thanks)
 ! and no it's not the same in career mode...but it's just as impossible that codemasters by doing one or two league races don't realize the problem themselves instead of asking us for proof..

THIS. You cannot save full replays in the game so can't show every incident/behavior.

We need online championship mode back from last year, since it went to the silly league system with no weather and other downgrades its not as good. F1 2018 is better

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44 minutes ago, UP100 said:

I think what Barry means is that there is no difference in AI calculations between modes.

Most likely "more stupid AI" is caused by the latency and processing that goes into handling multiple players and trying to sync between them. 

@UP100 

in your explanation we should understand ...that the problem is not solvable ? we have to wait for the PS5 ? ...whose latency ? the console ? the internet connection ? in my league we are 4 in fiber optics

Whatever the reason, it makes the league game annoying, unrealistic, desperate,  And what would already be a plus is if codemasters could say "yes it's true, we see what you're saying, it's coming from this, we're working on it, we can modify it, we can't..." in short, they hear us and talk to us.

So we get taken out by a stupid AI ...and we have to start all over again because the backup doesn't work...well...when we were only playing online with our friends...now it's dead or almost dead....

Warning this message is not a virulent against you moderator and staff...just extremely disappointed by codemaster...

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47 minutes ago, Dehel said:

@UP100 

in your explanation we should understand ...that the problem is not solvable ? we have to wait for the PS5 ? ...whose latency ? the console ? the internet connection ? in my league we are 4 in fiber optics

Whatever the reason, it makes the league game annoying, unrealistic, desperate,  And what would already be a plus is if codemasters could say "yes it's true, we see what you're saying, it's coming from this, we're working on it, we can modify it, we can't..." in short, they hear us and talk to us.

So we get taken out by a stupid AI ...and we have to start all over again because the backup doesn't work...well...when we were only playing online with our friends...now it's dead or almost dead....

Warning this message is not a virulent against you moderator and staff...just extremely disappointed by codemaster...

I can only talk in a general sense as I'm not and never have been an employee at Codemasters. P2P connection stuff is also ridiculously hard for me to make alone at least, so my experience with it is... certainly quite low 😕 

Basically in single player the AI will immeadiately know where you are, but in online the actions are often delayed because the machine that is running that AI's calculations get your positions later than what it would in single player.

It's unlikely a new generation of consoles would really have an effect in this except in cases in which the console doesn't have enough time to send all of the multiplayer information, or do the calculations. Though latency is caused by many different things, most of which I probably don't know about.

The most optimal setting for AI calculations would most likely be a some kind of LAN enviroment. There is an option for a LAN game on the PC version at least, so it could be tried there (though do note that it actually has to be in LAN, and not through Hamachi or similiar programs, as those cause even more latency)

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7 minutes ago, UP100 said:

I can only talk in a general sense as I'm not and never have been an employee at Codemasters. P2P connection stuff is also ridiculously hard for me to make alone at least, so my experience with it is... certainly quite low 😕 

Basically in single player the AI will immeadiately know where you are, but in online the actions are often delayed because the machine that is running that AI's calculations get your positions later than what it would in single player.

It's unlikely a new generation of consoles would really have an effect in this except in cases in which the console doesn't have enough time to send all of the multiplayer information, or do the calculations. Though latency is caused by many different things, most of which I probably don't know about.

The most optimal setting for AI calculations would most likely be a some kind of LAN enviroment. There is an option for a LAN game on the PC version at least, so it could be tried there (though do note that it actually has to be in LAN, and not through Hamachi or similiar programs, as those cause even more latency)

@UP100I know you're not codemasters 😉 hence my last sentence 😉

I can understand your explanation, but I don't think that the 2018 AI was so robotic online...this year, it's violent, and when you touch them...they hardly move...and we're taking unjustified penalties...in short, it's too cumulated this year for me to rush to the next version... 😞 

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8 hours ago, BarryBL said:

Hi @pedrosdt, With regards to your video clip, the Online AI and Offline AI play the exact same incident the same way under replication. In regards to this, I hope to have a more detailed answer shortly.

 Hi,

As I said before in the thread i don't use to play offline so i have not seen a different behaviour between offline and online ai. 

Indeed the video I posted is offline, I was just trying to test what I said before that used to happen in online races

Anyway I still think I wasn't ahead the ai when we were exiting the turn, and I would like that sometimes in the game the ai play so hard (receiving penalties if necessary), but most of the times should give just some space to fight.

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20 hours ago, UP100 said:

I can only talk in a general sense as I'm not and never have been an employee at Codemasters. P2P connection stuff is also ridiculously hard for me to make alone at least, so my experience with it is... certainly quite low 😕 

Basically in single player the AI will immeadiately know where you are, but in online the actions are often delayed because the machine that is running that AI's calculations get your positions later than what it would in single player.

It's unlikely a new generation of consoles would really have an effect in this except in cases in which the console doesn't have enough time to send all of the multiplayer information, or do the calculations. Though latency is caused by many different things, most of which I probably don't know about.

The most optimal setting for AI calculations would most likely be a some kind of LAN enviroment. There is an option for a LAN game on the PC version at least, so it could be tried there (though do note that it actually has to be in LAN, and not through Hamachi or similiar programs, as those cause even more latency)

While I understand what your saying, the thing is this new level of bad AI did not happen in the 2018 online championship mode. The 2019 league mode the AI seem to be radically different. The league mode seems poor compared to last years Online championship mode.

It feels as if the league mode is a complete beta, cannot change weather, took months to implement a save feature that does not work correctly etc. They should have kept the online championship mode in this game, I really hope the bring it back alongside league

Edited by TomAAA

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