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What features do we want to see in a future DIRT Rally game?

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17 minutes ago, Thierry97 said:

when will dirt rally 3.0 come out ???:classic_blink:

Nobody has actually told us plebs, but the speculation is end of this year or Q1 next.

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It wasn't listed, but a possible solution to the Tire Choice Dilemma I've posted before, that also deals with abrasive cuts without having to place massive warp zones everywhere:

  • Soft tires should still provide the best performance, but should degrade extremely quickly if they hit off-road. That means, if you want to go the fastest, you also want to go the cleanest.
  • Medium tires should be more resilient than Softs, but still risk a puncture after generous off-road riding.
  • Hard tires are obviously very resilient, even to off-road driving, but at the cost of performance. Beginner tires, essentially.

Also, as these settings need to scale well between both long rallies and Time Trial stages, Time Trial stages should start with a pre-set amount of tire wear. That's to ensure Softs + generous cuts aren't still the optimal choice for very short Time Trial stages.

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Being an absolute rally fanatic DR & DR 2.0 have nailed most things I’ve ever wanted in a rally game. I’d say generally keep things up codies! However if if I was dreaming the things I’d like to see in DR3.0:-

improved asphalt physics

improved pace notes

more WRC cars from the late 90s / early 2000s - Octavia, Cordoba etc.

more Group A, evo 3, (evo 5 or this could go above) sunny gti-r Mazda 323.

more f2 - especially the Megane.

An Irish tarmac event or the Manx.

another welsh stage - Gartheiniog or Dyfi

More online clubs custom options. Being able to choose a mixture of cars  from different classes for one rally. Being able to choose different stages from different rallies as one rally. 
 

and a Toyota license!

 

Edited by Matt555
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4 minutes ago, Matt555 said:

Being an absolute rally fanatic DR & DR 2.0 have nailed most things I’ve ever wanted in a rally game. I’d say generally keep things up codies! However if if I was dreaming the things I’d like to see in DR3.0:-

improved asphalt physics

improved pace notes

more WRC cars from the late 90s / early 2000s - Octavia, Cordoba etc.

more Group A, evo 3, (evo 5 or this could go above) sunny gti-r Mazda 323.

more f2 - especially the Megane.

An Irish tarmac event or the Manx.

another welsh stage - Gartheiniog or Dyfi

More online clubs custom options. Being able to choose a mixture of cars  from different classes for one rally. Being able to choose different stages from different rallies as one rally. 
 

and a Toyota license!

Yes to all of this.  A Mazda 323, Toyota Celica ST165 and 185 and a Mitsubishi Galant VR4 would be great.  I'd also like a Vauxhall Nova and an Astra. I also wish they could just do a bit of extra 'tweaking' to provide more offers with the cars they have.

They've got an Audi Quattro - give us a Coupe Quattro

They've got a Pug 205 - not too much work to add a 309 GTi

They've got a Lancia Integrale 'Deltona' - very easy to make an HF4WD and an Integrale

They've got a Sierra (still don't know why it's an RS500?), - not too much work to make a Sapphire 4x4.

 

Throw in the fact that you can make each of these also have a Group N version with no external work needed and possibly only a few graphical tweaks on the interior (and different sounds) and you have a whole host of opportunities with not too much extra work.

Also, let me choose weather conditions and seasons.  Germany - light snow - winter - perfect!  

Let me mix stages from different countries into a rally.  Let me have a talent editor where I can change drivers cars, classes and names.

Basically, give me a 1980s RAC Rally!

 

 

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On 6/24/2020 at 10:37 AM, Matt555 said:

More cars! More F2, the Megane being my favourite. I know Toyota are very picky with their license, but the St185 Celica and Corolla WRC please! Also the Escort WRC, Octavia WRC, Accent WRC and Cordoba WRC.
 

A new Welsh stage - Gartheniog or Dyfi would be a great stage imo. 
 

Improved Pace notes.

A new asphalt event, Manx, Ireland or a mixed surface event like classic San Remo.

Seems you are repeating the same requests in the same topic Matt. 😛 

 

Meanwhile I couldn't care less about too many different vehicles being added, what the sim/game lacks is many realistic physics bits and many features etc.  All have already been pretty much listed in the first post.

 

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2 hours ago, bn880 said:

Meanwhile I couldn't care less about too many different vehicles being added, what the sim/game lacks is many realistic physics bits and many features etc.  All have already been pretty much listed in the first post.

 

Yeah, i agree 100%.
realism and physics should be the priority since adding cars and similar sounds more like a DLC.

hope DR3.0 will not be a big DLC of the DR2.0

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Yeah I mean other people hold specific cars more dearly, but this is the features suggestion thread anyway, there is a car suggestion thread beside it where people can add car requests and I am sure we will get some new ones!

(even so, I think it's hard to argue that cars are more important to add than say, stage length or new venues/locations)

Edited by bn880

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On 2/16/2021 at 12:55 PM, bn880 said:

Seems you are repeating the same requests in the same topic Matt. 😛 

 

Meanwhile I couldn't care less about too many different vehicles being added, what the sim/game lacks is many realistic physics bits and many features etc.  All have already been pretty much listed in the first post.

 

😂😂😂😂 I thought I had a case of Dejavu when typing!

Edited by Matt555
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Nice list, I agree with most of things (I dont find some of the mentioned things importnant). However, I think I can add some importnant things -

1)Put some rocks, holes and other obstacles on stage. I never saw rally game where you must be carefull to not destroy suspension. While in real life, you cant cross those things in high speed so you have to slow down.

2)I know it was kind of mentioned, but Ill try to say it more clear - More noticeable wheelspin (through ffb, sound) because of this RBR is still on top, the wheelspin feeling is just great here.

 

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4 hours ago, RG225 said:

1)Put some rocks, holes and other obstacles on stage. I never saw rally game where you must be carefull to not destroy suspension. While in real life, you cant cross those things in high speed so you have to slow down.

 

Yeah absolutely, IDK if I had a brain fart and completely forgot to list this or what, but that's one of the other main driving bits that's not currently in the game.  Rocks being pulled out that can cause a puncture or maybe rad damage.  👍

 

On 2/7/2020 at 6:07 PM, bn880 said:

- Feature to render and simulate pulled up rocks on the stages, which can cause punctures/damage. 

 

Ah no, it's here, I did mention it.  :classic_wink:

Edited by bn880
Found my note on the feature

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4 hours ago, RG225 said:

Nice list, I agree with most of things (I dont find some of the mentioned things importnant). However, I think I can add some importnant things -

1)Put some rocks, holes and other obstacles on stage. I never saw rally game where you must be carefull to not destroy suspension. While in real life, you cant cross those things in high speed so you have to slow down.

2)I know it was kind of mentioned, but Ill try to say it more clear - More noticeable wheelspin (through ffb, sound) because of this RBR is still on top, the wheelspin feeling is just great here.

 

Ditto on the RBR physics there.

Re point 1 - I'd quite like a 'masochist' mode with Dirt Rally 3.0 - something that can randomly retire you from a rally, or cause car health issues, which hasn't been caused by you - just something that factors in real-life unreliability that wasn't caused by the driver.

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On 4/13/2020 at 2:12 PM, gleylancer571 said:

I hope that we will get hillclimb again.
You don't need Pikes Peak for Hill Climb there are 12 different Hill Climb routes for the European Championship 
and also enough different cars.

Was Pikes Peak omitted from DR2 for the sake of brevity, or was it licensing? I would love to see it return but with the option of the pre-tarmac road a la Climb Dance.

I'd also like to see more control over in-car the viewpoint  - for some of the cockpit views, I can't see the dash display properly, even when I've adjusted the view with the number pad keys. I can't see the speed data in the Polo R5, for example, and the gear indicator is slightly obscured in the Lancia Delta Integrale.

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Licensing.

Someone bought the exclusive license after DR1.

Speaking of.... DR1 has the all gravel version too.

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16 hours ago, rfh12005 said:

Ditto on the RBR physics there.

Re point 1 - I'd quite like a 'masochist' mode with Dirt Rally 3.0 - something that can randomly retire you from a rally, or cause car health issues, which hasn't been caused by you - just something that factors in real-life unreliability that wasn't caused by the driver.

Could call it Carlos Sainz rally haha

I'd not think people want engine failures 5 times a season though like he had in 2001.

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I've not read through this whole thing yet, so I may be re-covering things here. 

I love DiRT Rally 2.0, it is an immense game. I'm sure licencing is why there aren't any Toyotas, but that is another story. 

Here's what I would like. 

CO-DRIVERS

Ability to edit a pacenote (even just raise or lower the number and add a tightens or opens or drop outside/rocks inside). More pacenote detail (Phil Mills had incredibly detailed notes for Solberg, and I would happily pay for a DLC containing this. 

Robert Reid co-driver option, again I would happily pay DLC. 

CARS

Megane Maxi F2 (could basically re-use the 306 sound files)

Almeria/Pulsar F2

Sierra Sapphire and Evo 3 for Group A

Evo 6 gets moved from Group A to WRC where it belongs, with an 00 update.

Bracket the Group A cars 90-98, WRC split from 99-06 then 07-17.

Octavia, Corolla, 307CC WRC (I will pay for this DLC)

Just the above would be mega. 

TECH//DAMAGE

While the driving side of this game is awesome, the tyre changes on stage are also great, what happened to the radiator top-up and clean/inspect from DiRT4? That kind of repair aspects would be cool reintroduced. 

Also when you clip a wall and instantly deflate the tyre - maybe a 'wheel off' cosmetic change is more suitable? 

TYRES

Could we please add a studded tyre or an ability to cut slicks to the game? This was a feature in an old Colin McRae game from memory - if weather activity is going to be increased it would be amazing. Same again to choose the tyre type of the spares and be able to swap or rotate tyres - this is a real thing in rallying and would allow for longer intervals between servicing.

AESTHETICS

DiRT 4's Livery Editor//Branding Suite, with the sponsorship component. Obviously there aren't going to be the alcohol or tobacco or some oil sponsors, but the templates would be so cool.

Templates from 80-00's cars:

BASTOS (80-00's)
Marlboro (The Makinen one)
Rothmans ('Rallying Legacy' type)
Grifone 206 (00's)
Factory Mitsubishi Group A
Castrol Celica or Corolla 
Martini Focus
 

RALLIES

I think re-using the majority of what is in 2.0 would be great especially considering the workload.
Could we PLEASE have one more 'section' to reuse, making it ~ 18 stages per rally. 
For example in Monte Carlo there are 'lowlands' areas below the La Bollène Vésubie 1 “Col de Turini or the Sisteron as the third 'long stage' which could then be broken up in to one up and one down either side of this crest.

If it is possible to add one more European tarmac round, then I beg for San Remo or the Tour de Corse, otherwise Donegal or Ypres. Everyone wants something done about the Tarmac handling, idk what.
 

Thanks again for making DiRT Rally 2.0 and there is a huge fanbase waiting for what is next.

 

Edited by NZKNUT
details and spelling.

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On 2/11/2021 at 1:10 PM, Yaggings said:

It wasn't listed, but a possible solution to the Tire Choice Dilemma I've posted before, that also deals with abrasive cuts without having to place massive warp zones everywhere:

  • Soft tires should still provide the best performance, but should degrade extremely quickly if they hit off-road. That means, if you want to go the fastest, you also want to go the cleanest.
  • Medium tires should be more resilient than Softs, but still risk a puncture after generous off-road riding.
  • Hard tires are obviously very resilient, even to off-road driving, but at the cost of performance. Beginner tires, essentially.

Also, as these settings need to scale well between both long rallies and Time Trial stages, Time Trial stages should start with a pre-set amount of tire wear. That's to ensure Softs + generous cuts aren't still the optimal choice for very short Time Trial stages.

Cutting slicks, two spares with a different compound to swap if weather changes etc. Maybe a puncture resilience vs compound thing too. 

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13 hours ago, F2CMaDMaXX said:

Licensing.

Someone bought the exclusive license after DR1.

Speaking of.... DR1 has the all gravel version too.

Wow, I need to reinstall it. I obviously hadn't unlocked it before upgrading to DR2.

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Next Issue should be to Play anywhere! 

xBox, PC, PlayStation - and to be synchronised with the GamerTag. 

And it would be fine to have a Party Mode to play offline with friends.

 

Edited by subway47

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On 2/22/2021 at 12:37 PM, bn880 said:

Yeah absolutely, IDK if I had a brain fart and completely forgot to list this or what, but that's one of the other main driving bits that's not currently in the game.  Rocks being pulled out that can cause a puncture or maybe rad damage.  👍

 

Ah no, it's here, I did mention it.  :classic_wink:

Sorry, I didnt see it.

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NP, it's one of the issues that comes up when a thread gets this long.  Anyone new honestly can't be expected to read the entire thing word for word.

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I wrote the below without any real intended recipient, but I enjoyed it and thought that this forum might be as good a place as any to share it. Racing sims in general need to evolve, and rally games are top of that pile in my opinion. I’ve played rally games since the old RAC Rally and Colin McRae titles in the 1990s, and I’ve even just bought my first real life rally car, so this is a real passion of mine. Having said that, I recognise the level of nerdiness in what I’ve written and I accept any and all mocking! Anyway:

 

If you mention the phrase “open world game”, racing simulators are not usually the first thing that springs to mind. Open world environments are usually the remit of big budget action games, RPGs and arcade racers like the GTA, Fallout and Forza Horizon series. These are all set in expansive, vibrant, richly detailed worlds with all kinds of little things ticking along in the background. Full-on racing sims are all about realism and accuracy, with players wanting to race on laser-scanned recreations of the world’s most famous race circuits in licenced cars, so an open world isn’t really on the radar (until you have the processing power to drive between circuits on a 1:1 world map, but would anyone really want that?). However…what if the open world concept was applied to a rally sim?

It actually seems pretty obvious once you think about it. I do like the 1:1 recreations of real stages in rally sims, but is this really that much of a selling point? Even as a huge rally fan, there are few stages on the world scene that I would recognise as an authentic recreation outside of a few key corners or jumps. It makes sense for circuit sims to take this approach, but circuit racing is a different beast entirely, where every inch of each circuit is pored over by real world racers and sim-racers alike in an effort to gain valuable tenths. I’m no developer or coder, but it seems to me that with the inevitable resources that recreating real stages must consume, if we are honest the cons probably outweigh the pros.

Enter: the open world. The stage possibilities of an open world are literally endless. Take a game like Forza Horizon 4 for example. One user calculated that the map is over 71.46 square kilometres and has just under 200km of roads. And that 200km is tarmac roads only! You could probably comfortably double that figure when you add in the extensive gravel sections, meaning that Forza Horizon has significantly more unique roads than were used on the real-life 2019 WRC Rally GB, which weighed in at 312km and reused certain sections in multiple stages. Dirt Rally 2 released with just under 600km of competitive stages. This sounds like a lot, but the unique stage km count is more around the 150km mark, as each location only really has two sections, which are cut up for the smaller stages and run in both directions. True, this more than doubled after all the DLC had been added, but it’s still quite limited. If we go back to the example of the Forza Horizon 4 map, in theory it would be possible to have a single stage that is more than double the length of every unique stage in DR2 combined.

Now we are at the dawn of the new generation of consoles, surely this approach can be used, and expanded, into simulator territory? An open area of 100 square kilometres doesn’t seem far-fetched at all on this new generation of consoles and PCs. After all, the absolutely gigantic (127 square kilometres!) Los Santos environment was originally developed for console systems that are now a full two generations old. While a rally sim would never muster up the financial backing of a Grand Theft Auto title, it also wouldn’t have to dedicate any processing power to an underwater ecosystem or a functional waste disposal truck route. Instead, the focus could be on the physics and the immersion. In a system like this, you could run an endurance event with 50km stages. You could create a whole championship of single-venue rallies, with each event having multiple stage layouts contained within one area, such as an airfield or quarry. You could have smooth tarmac, rough country lanes, industrial areas, fine gravel, rocky mountain roads and muddy farm tracks all in one massive location, with dynamic weather and progressive landscapes. Expansions could be added later, linked by bridges or tunnels. And with an open-world approach, the roads themselves are just the tip of the iceberg. Using obstacles such as barriers, cones, tape and tyres, along with some well-developed track limits and pacenote generating system, unique stages could be created constantly. This would be perfect for e-sports competition, as stages could be released one day before an event to keep drivers on their toes and eliminate the memorising of stages. Events could be held in real time, with drivers starting at intervals like on real events. Road sections could be included between stages just like on real multi-venue events, so after your 50km slog with two punctures and a smoking engine bay, you still have to make it to the service area under your own power. If you really want to go mad, you could use in game currency to buy bigger and better service vehicles to carry more spares and crew members on an event. Running out of spares could mean a DNF!

Whether the player would be given free reign to create their own stages, events and championships, or these would be provided periodically by the developer, the amount of variety on offer would be incredible regardless. There are small scale glimpses of this concept already in practice, such as the time attack courses at Dirtfish in Dirt 4, the challenges set in the WRC training area and the Dirt 5 Playgrounds mode. These are all fun little features, but they lack the depth, immersion and competition that a more sim-focused approach brings. Playgrounds is fun but too wacky, Dirt 4 had cool single-venue stages at Dirtfish but had no pace notes and bordered on wacky with the floating green and red things, and the WRC challenge stages have no pace notes or use outside of challenge mode. I really think that with the right approach, the open world could be a game-changer in rally sims, and may be the answer that Codemasters were looking for when they trialled procedurally generated stages in Dirt 4.

It’s time for rally sims to evolve, someone out there get it done! And whoever does take on this idea, don’t worry about royalties, just order me a Papa John’s (double pineapple).

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1 hour ago, merseyxshore said:

I wrote the below without any real intended recipient, but I enjoyed it and thought that this forum might be as good a place as any to share it. Racing sims in general need to evolve, and rally games are top of that pile in my opinion. I’ve played rally games since the old RAC Rally and Colin McRae titles in the 1990s, and I’ve even just bought my first real life rally car, so this is a real passion of mine. Having said that, I recognise the level of nerdiness in what I’ve written and I accept any and all mocking! Anyway:

 

If you mention the phrase “open world game”, racing simulators are not usually the first thing that springs to mind. Open world environments are usually the remit of big budget action games, RPGs and arcade racers like the GTA, Fallout and Forza Horizon series. These are all set in expansive, vibrant, richly detailed worlds with all kinds of little things ticking along in the background. Full-on racing sims are all about realism and accuracy, with players wanting to race on laser-scanned recreations of the world’s most famous race circuits in licenced cars, so an open world isn’t really on the radar (until you have the processing power to drive between circuits on a 1:1 world map, but would anyone really want that?). However…what if the open world concept was applied to a rally sim?

It actually seems pretty obvious once you think about it. I do like the 1:1 recreations of real stages in rally sims, but is this really that much of a selling point? Even as a huge rally fan, there are few stages on the world scene that I would recognise as an authentic recreation outside of a few key corners or jumps. It makes sense for circuit sims to take this approach, but circuit racing is a different beast entirely, where every inch of each circuit is pored over by real world racers and sim-racers alike in an effort to gain valuable tenths. I’m no developer or coder, but it seems to me that with the inevitable resources that recreating real stages must consume, if we are honest the cons probably outweigh the pros.

Enter: the open world. The stage possibilities of an open world are literally endless. Take a game like Forza Horizon 4 for example. One user calculated that the map is over 71.46 square kilometres and has just under 200km of roads. And that 200km is tarmac roads only! You could probably comfortably double that figure when you add in the extensive gravel sections, meaning that Forza Horizon has significantly more unique roads than were used on the real-life 2019 WRC Rally GB, which weighed in at 312km and reused certain sections in multiple stages. Dirt Rally 2 released with just under 600km of competitive stages. This sounds like a lot, but the unique stage km count is more around the 150km mark, as each location only really has two sections, which are cut up for the smaller stages and run in both directions. True, this more than doubled after all the DLC had been added, but it’s still quite limited. If we go back to the example of the Forza Horizon 4 map, in theory it would be possible to have a single stage that is more than double the length of every unique stage in DR2 combined.

Now we are at the dawn of the new generation of consoles, surely this approach can be used, and expanded, into simulator territory? An open area of 100 square kilometres doesn’t seem far-fetched at all on this new generation of consoles and PCs. After all, the absolutely gigantic (127 square kilometres!) Los Santos environment was originally developed for console systems that are now a full two generations old. While a rally sim would never muster up the financial backing of a Grand Theft Auto title, it also wouldn’t have to dedicate any processing power to an underwater ecosystem or a functional waste disposal truck route. Instead, the focus could be on the physics and the immersion. In a system like this, you could run an endurance event with 50km stages. You could create a whole championship of single-venue rallies, with each event having multiple stage layouts contained within one area, such as an airfield or quarry. You could have smooth tarmac, rough country lanes, industrial areas, fine gravel, rocky mountain roads and muddy farm tracks all in one massive location, with dynamic weather and progressive landscapes. Expansions could be added later, linked by bridges or tunnels. And with an open-world approach, the roads themselves are just the tip of the iceberg. Using obstacles such as barriers, cones, tape and tyres, along with some well-developed track limits and pacenote generating system, unique stages could be created constantly. This would be perfect for e-sports competition, as stages could be released one day before an event to keep drivers on their toes and eliminate the memorising of stages. Events could be held in real time, with drivers starting at intervals like on real events. Road sections could be included between stages just like on real multi-venue events, so after your 50km slog with two punctures and a smoking engine bay, you still have to make it to the service area under your own power. If you really want to go mad, you could use in game currency to buy bigger and better service vehicles to carry more spares and crew members on an event. Running out of spares could mean a DNF!

Whether the player would be given free reign to create their own stages, events and championships, or these would be provided periodically by the developer, the amount of variety on offer would be incredible regardless. There are small scale glimpses of this concept already in practice, such as the time attack courses at Dirtfish in Dirt 4, the challenges set in the WRC training area and the Dirt 5 Playgrounds mode. These are all fun little features, but they lack the depth, immersion and competition that a more sim-focused approach brings. Playgrounds is fun but too wacky, Dirt 4 had cool single-venue stages at Dirtfish but had no pace notes and bordered on wacky with the floating green and red things, and the WRC challenge stages have no pace notes or use outside of challenge mode. I really think that with the right approach, the open world could be a game-changer in rally sims, and may be the answer that Codemasters were looking for when they trialled procedurally generated stages in Dirt 4.

It’s time for rally sims to evolve, someone out there get it done! And whoever does take on this idea, don’t worry about royalties, just order me a Papa John’s (double pineapple).

This is definitely possible. Perhaps with the EA buyout, they will have the funding to make this a possibility. I made a video about this topic with WRC 8. Its amazing that almost everything you see in the game is real detailed terrain. It's a waste of resources Im sure but its still really cool to know, if you can see it, you can go there. Im sure its similar in dirt rally 1+2 so all that would be left is to flesh out the areas in the distance with some higher quality roads and assets.

Here is the vid I was referencing.

 

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"If you can see it, you can go there" shows a total misunderstand of the smoke and mirrors used in game dev.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, I have also been thinking and mentioning that open world stages can and will happen some day, but it may (will) not be soon and may not even be EA who does it.  The tech is already out there for some decent open/whole world implementations for terrain and buildings/objects.  I just see it as a very expensive thing to develop properly to the level of detail required.  I mean DR2.0 is already at a very high fidelity level, and then will come DR3 and the WRC titles, the whole world thing would need to somehow do those justice someday.

Edited by bn880

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