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Power, upgraded vs non upgraded?


bogani

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How much of a difference is it? 

The Delta S4 feels extremely underpowered on the daily event if you compare it to some real footage. https://youtu.be/5HlqEkJ3VGM

There should be a massive increase of power when the turbo kicks in. I feel non of that.
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DiRT doesn't use Group B specification, as the handbrake disconnect rear diff. In real life Group B cars could not use handbrakes to lock rear wheels when approaching harpins etc. It can be easily spotted on any 80's tarmac rally footage. Too bad.
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Just curious, whats the likely hood of the delta S4 in that vid being an original spec Group B Delta? alot of those Group B cars used in hill climbs today are far from the orginal cars they once were. Just food for thought. ;)

Good point. But they dont feel as powerful as I would have expected anyways.
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Back to the original question. It makes a huge difference, ungraded and upgraded feel like 2 totally different cars. When my RS200 was standard it felt safe, if a little glued to the floor, now after being fully upgraded, it is a handful, even in a straight line.

I bought a 95 WRX after @RWDSam asked if anyone could provide in game footage of the car acting like McRae's car in a video he posted in his 'Too much grip' post. I wasn't able to it in the standard one. I could start a powerslide, but the car would regain grip before I exited the corner, so I started using it in the Championship so I could upgrade it. It now has the turbo and weight reduction upgrades and is looser in the corners. I have a video of it as a standard car on Severn Valley, and I will do another video of it there when it is fully upgraded so you can see the difference between the 2.
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Areyouben said:
Look at the video below at 0:35, Meeke clearly uses his handbrake there, or is he just locking up? :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8bO7OfUgqg
I'm not going to do research for You, mate. It is basic knowledge- if You were a rally fan and You'd follow TV footage that You can find on YT, You'd know. I don't know this particular car, but even on comments You can read:
"This 6r4 was built only at the start of the year and then bought by the rally school. Its a brand new car, have been to see in in real life as know the owner. STUNNING!"
I understand not everyone is rally head, but I cannot prove all obvious points to You guys. I have life :)
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Areyouben said:
I am a big rally fan but I was born in '94. I don't care for these older cars much because I can't follow them now and therefor don't care to do 'research'. Sorry for not knowing everything.
No, I am sorry if I sounded rude, but It is really exhausting to have to prove everything here. Maybe it is first time I am repying to Your post, but I've been more than patient untill this point explaining every little detail to DiRT crowd. Once again I apologise, I didn't want to sound harsh. Anyways- orginal AWD group B cars had handbrakes, but it didn't work the same way they do in DiRT Rally. Cheers!
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Back to the original question. It makes a huge difference, ungraded and upgraded feel like 2 totally different cars. When my RS200 was standard it felt safe, if a little glued to the floor, now after being fully upgraded, it is a handful, even in a straight line.

I bought a 95 WRX after @RWDSam asked if anyone could provide in game footage of the car acting like McRae's car in a video he posted in his 'Too much grip' post. I wasn't able to it in the standard one. I could start a powerslide, but the car would regain grip before I exited the corner, so I started using it in the Championship so I could upgrade it. It now has the turbo and weight reduction upgrades and is looser in the corners. I have a video of it as a standard car on Severn Valley, and I will do another video of it there when it is fully upgraded so you can see the difference between the 2.
The BHP number in the car info, does that increase as you upgrade or are the numbers reflecting a full upgraded car? 
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SamRWD said:
Areyouben said:
I am a big rally fan but I was born in '94. I don't care for these older cars much because I can't follow them now and therefor don't care to do 'research'. Sorry for not knowing everything.
No, I am sorry if I sounded rude, but It is really exhausting to have to prove everything here. Maybe it is first time I am repying to Your post, but I've been more than patient untill this point explaining every little detail to DiRT crowd. Once again I apologise, I didn't want to sound harsh. Anyways- orginal AWD group B cars had handbrakes, but it didn't work the same way they do in DiRT Rally. Cheers!
No problem. :smile: Has there ever been a game where they did this right tho? It's kinda the same with a lot of circuit racers where a manual clutch setting requires you to use the clutch with sequential shifted cars also. Not how it should be as well and wrongly implemented by a lot of devs.

To stay on topic, I have only driven the old Mini in career mode and after getting the 2 engine upgrades it felt a bit more aggressive but it wasn't an explosive difference.
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So far I have fully upgraded the following cars:

Mini 60's version

Lancia Fulvia

Fiat abarth 131

MkII Escort

95 Impreza

Lancia S4

205 T16

Fiesta RS

I can confirm they are night and day from stock to upgraded and have absolute no problem at all sliding around with a huge grin on my face.

The 205 T16 in particular is a night mare to keep it pointing in the right direction.

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bogani said:
The BHP number in the car info, does that increase as you upgrade or are the numbers reflecting a full upgraded car? 
It went from 269bhp to 300bhp according to the upgrade page.

I took it round River Severn Valley and set a time.

Standard WRX


Upgraded WRX



I had a smooth run in the standard and I was all over the place in the upgraded one.




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SamRWD said:
Areyouben said:
I am a big rally fan but I was born in '94. I don't care for these older cars much because I can't follow them now and therefor don't care to do 'research'. Sorry for not knowing everything.
No, I am sorry if I sounded rude, but It is really exhausting to have to prove everything here. Maybe it is first time I am repying to Your post, but I've been more than patient untill this point explaining every little detail to DiRT crowd. Once again I apologise, I didn't want to sound harsh. Anyways- orginal AWD group B cars had handbrakes, but it didn't work the same way they do in DiRT Rally. Cheers!
If it's exhausting to you to "educate everyone that plays DiRT" the simple solution is to not do it. You feeling like you have a wealth of knowledge above everyone isn't a good excuse to be rude. A quick peek at your post history shows a string of comments with the same attitude.

Bringing this back on topic, some cars have really large power and weight upgrades that are unlocked as you progress, so that can add to why you feel like it may be slower than videos you see. Also like @SamRWD said it's difficult to tell exactly what specifications are used where, what they base the cars in game off, ect.
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Evilsmurf said:

So far I have fully upgraded the following cars:

Mini 60's version

Lancia Fulvia

Fiat abarth 131

MkII Escort

95 Impreza

Lancia S4

205 T16

Fiesta RS

I can confirm they are night and day from stock to upgraded and have absolute no problem at all sliding around with a huge grin on my face.

The 205 T16 in particular is a night mare to keep it pointing in the right direction.

I am entiérement dacors with you.

With quite the improvements freed cars are trés good one(maid)
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FlakHound said:
SamRWD said:
Areyouben said:
I am a big rally fan but I was born in '94. I don't care for these older cars much because I can't follow them now and therefor don't care to do 'research'. Sorry for not knowing everything.
No, I am sorry if I sounded rude, but It is really exhausting to have to prove everything here. Maybe it is first time I am repying to Your post, but I've been more than patient untill this point explaining every little detail to DiRT crowd. Once again I apologise, I didn't want to sound harsh. Anyways- orginal AWD group B cars had handbrakes, but it didn't work the same way they do in DiRT Rally. Cheers!
If it's exhausting to you to "educate everyone that plays DiRT" the simple solution is to not do it. You feeling like you have a wealth of knowledge above everyone isn't a good excuse to be rude. A quick peek at your post history shows a string of comments with the same attitude.

I've been more than patient and I've been approaching everyone on this board with as much respect as I do on other boards. Everything changed the moment I realised I am the only side in discussion that was using that principle. As soon as people started to suggest I need to turn assists off , or that I am wrong, because I lack a driving technique without seeing a single onboard of my etc. I started to use the same language. This is the only post I've come rude and I apologised in my very next post. Please look back further, You might notice  how my approach has changed. I am not going to be the only polite person in discussion. Also I cannot keep researching in order to prove something obvious since I've been doing so and no one seemed to care. I am not violating forum rules (well, this post might be flagged as OT), and if I do, then other do even more.
Now on the topic of turbo lag- I don't know, but I've just run Peugeot and there is a power boost when turbo kicks in. Very difficult to maintain high revs as real world drivers did without a clutch (I am running Driving Force Pro).
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SamRWD said:
FlakHound said:
SamRWD said:
Areyouben said:
I am a big rally fan but I was born in '94. I don't care for these older cars much because I can't follow them now and therefor don't care to do 'research'. Sorry for not knowing everything.
No, I am sorry if I sounded rude, but It is really exhausting to have to prove everything here. Maybe it is first time I am repying to Your post, but I've been more than patient untill this point explaining every little detail to DiRT crowd. Once again I apologise, I didn't want to sound harsh. Anyways- orginal AWD group B cars had handbrakes, but it didn't work the same way they do in DiRT Rally. Cheers!
If it's exhausting to you to "educate everyone that plays DiRT" the simple solution is to not do it. You feeling like you have a wealth of knowledge above everyone isn't a good excuse to be rude. A quick peek at your post history shows a string of comments with the same attitude.

I've been more than patient and I've been approaching everyone on this board with as much respect as I do on other boards. Everything changed the moment I realised I am the only side in discussion that was using that principle. As soon as people started to suggest I need to turn assists off , or that I am wrong, because I lack a driving technique without seeing a single onboard of my etc. I started to use the same language. This is the only post I've come rude and I apologised in my very next post. Please look back further, You might notice  how my approach has changed. I am not going to be the only polite person in discussion. Also I cannot keep researching in order to prove something obvious since I've been doing so and no one seemed to care. I am not violating forum rules (well, this post might be flagged as OT), and if I do, then other do even more.
Now on the topic of turbo lag- I don't know, but I've just run Peugeot and there is a power boost when turbo kicks in. Very difficult to maintain high revs as real world drivers did without a clutch (I am running Driving Force Pro).
Yes the Peugeot is the only Group B that I can feel the turbo kick in. However, I will try to upgrade the cars so I can make a fair judgement. 
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Why on earth can cars in a sim be 'upgraded'? Surely the car is the car? Maybe a works team has better parts than a privateer, but I'll never understand 'unlocking' something that gives you a few % extra power or similar.
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Well, Specs of the Gr.B cars are hard to judge ... Nowadays most of them just don't have their original specs. (true as well for the 90's Gr.A...).

The ingame Data surprise me a bit as far as power is concerned, in some old video footage (autovideo january 86) these cars are given for less power: (If I remember correctly Metro 350bhp, 205 T16 430 bhp, delta S4 410 bhp, S1 500bhp, BX4TC 380 bhp - RS200 started in Sweden, specs not announced in the video - weight is also given for all these cars, but i just don't remember that).
But even there...  to what extent did they evolve throughout the season ? No idea...  

btw- you're right for the handbrake, especially visible in the Tour de Corse, whatever the year is.
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Why on earth can cars in a sim be 'upgraded'? Surely the car is the car? Maybe a works team has better parts than a privateer, but I'll never understand 'unlocking' something that gives you a few % extra power or similar.
Likely due to the desire for a sense of progression or accomplishment in career mode. 
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I always found a sense of proression in dropping my personal best from an 8:33 to an 8:27, and finishing one place higher in the rally. Must just be me, but I don't see that approach in having a place in a sim, I want to get better, not for my car to get better and me be the beneficiary.
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bogani said:
Yes the Peugeot is the only Group B that I can feel the turbo kick in. However, I will try to upgrade the cars so I can make a fair judgement. 
For what it's worth, the Metro has no turbo, and the Lancia Delta S4 has a supercharger which means you get a smooth rise in boost until the turbo comes in, but the jump in power is much smaller than if it didn't have the supercharger. So there's only 3 cars competing for "laggiest turbo" ;)
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SO. MUCH. BOOST!

https://youtu.be/c71jDPRVyRU

Also worth noting the use of the handbrake... something that other people around her said was not possible on the group B cars and the fact it has so much grip it is unable to do celebratory dounuts at the end of his run.

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