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KevM said:
Look at the G reading on the Accelerometer Skiddy
Proof = sufficient evidence or an argument for the truth of a proposition

Asking me to look at a display on a program I've never used and which on every other telem program I have used means G-Force and telling me it means Gravity is not proof.

You're going to have to explain some things

How do you know G means Gravity?

Why wouldn't the programmer have called it Downforce?

Why did he use the letter G, the letter used by telem programs to indication G-Force and the display from a G-Force display if he didn't want people to think it was a G-Force display? Esecially when everything else on his program matches other telem displays

Why does your Gravity indicator act exactly like a G-Force display? i.e Car turns left, indicator moves right. Car accelerates, indicator moves back. Car brakes, indicator moves forward.

What would a video of your car/telem look like if I cranked the suspension to Max, or Minimum?

You need to answer those questions before you say "But...   LOOK!" because I don't know what your looking at otherwise. As far as I can tell, I'm looking at a G-Force display which shows someone running a stiffer suspension than you, nothing more, nothing less.

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I'm being totally serious btw. That display looks for all the world, and behaves, like a G-Force indicator and I can show you other in game telems where it is a g-Force indicator, but I can't show you a single one that I've ever used where it means Gravity.

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Im not saying 'G' stands for gravity, but that's one of the forces that lets a G Force indicator work.  

It can be a ball in a cone, a weight on a string (pendulum), or an electronic device!  They all work to show lateral forces off the central resting force though (the gravity bit).

Hang a weight from your car roof and you have a G Force indicator.  At rest, gravity pulls the weight perfectly vertically.  If you drive, the weight swings to show lateral G force.  
If you use a really heavy weight, the lateral force wont be able to overcome the gravitation vertical pull and the movement of the G Force indicator remains close to vertical always.

We cant increase the weight of the pendulum to keep the G Force indicator in the game centred (as per gheeD's run), but the gravity can be altered, which ultimately has exactly the same effect.


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Nope still not evidence.

Try a comparison video. Turn on your cheat engine, set the gravity to max, turn on telem, go to the stage in Finland, record the video.

Then reset gravity, do the stage again in the same car, with the same set up with telem on, record that video.

Upload to the tubes and then post on here.

Don't use someone elses video and 1 of your own, you have different set ups, different lines and different driving styles, your telem is bound to be different

It's what I'd have done before I even made a post saying that this telem app could prove anything, because unless you actually know the person you're trying to convince, it's just sets of messages on a forum saying what both sides would say, given the circumstances..

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KevM said:
Porkhammer said:
It's wonky for everyone. It acted weird for the entirety of Quirkitized's live stream last night as well. Stop looking for excuses as to why you're so bad at the game, improve or GTFO.
Yeah, Its bugged/broke for everyone.  Everyone except me?  Mine is fine, but you can see that!

Here's how simple an Accelerometer is:-

Gravity pulls ball to rest in centre of the cone.

G-Force over-comes Gravity & pulls ball up the gradient in direction of force

If the ball is too heavy, ball cant roll up the gradient.  

Same ball?  Same gradient?  No movement?  MORE GRAVITY....  


You must be the coder of the telemetry software if you really believe it can't be broken for some people. I just unpacked it and didn't touch any settings and it's not working.

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He's not the author                                                                  

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He's not the author                                                                  
I know that, It was kind of mocking reply to him.

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Nope still not evidence.

Try a comparison video. Turn on your cheat engine, set the gravity to max, turn on telem, go to the stage in Finland, record the video.

Then reset gravity, do the stage again in the same car, with the same set up with telem on, record that video.

Upload to the tubes and then post on here.

Don't use someone elses video and 1 of your own, you have different set ups, different lines and different driving styles, your telem is bound to be different

It's what I'd have done before I even made a post saying that this telem app could prove anything, because unless you actually know the person you're trying to convince, it's just sets of messages on a forum saying what both sides would say, given the circumstances..
Yeah, I dont have the facility to do that and I think you know it!   I could have DL'd it months ago, but honestly, it looks like it turns the driving aspect of the game to total crap.

Car setup does effect suspension feedback, but not G Forces (red ball on the left).  
Increased corner-speed, however, does.  Increased speed Increases G, which would show on the telemetry.  Really basic basic stuff.  
You see the absolute opposite happen, yet still defend the obvious ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM...

You keep asking for evidence and I keep sending it, you keep ignoring it, but you keep asking for more.
Should we all take this blinkered approach as a clear message to like it or lump it?  Yeah? 
We should Bow down to the unskilled rookie Gods of Gravity mod and get on with it? 

Im being serious too, Man up & just tell me the way you want me to play it, instead of tip-toeing around the issue.  Its Easy!  
Gravity Cheating is either something CM have an interest in tackling (which you keep leading me to believe since the start of EA), or its just lip-service and to be accepted as just the way its going to be?  

All throughout EA, I have given feedback as requested, in an effort to tackle an obvious problem that no-one else could see, which has since grown arms and legs.  I have wasted plenty of time on it.  You either need the info, or aren't fussed on getting it.  Decide!

Just give me a definitive answer, I don't mind either way!??

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It's false assumption that the g-force meter is in anyway linked to the gravity in the telemetry tool. In real world the ball on string is good way of seeing the g-forces, but here we have a game code which has separate values for every force, so the telemetry tool only needs to read the g-forces. It does not need ingame gravity to center it. When the game feeds the telemetry tool info, that there's are no g-forces going on, the tool just centers the ball.

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KevM said:
Yeah, I dont have the facility to do that and I think you know it!   I could have DL'd it months ago, but honestly, it looks like it turns the driving aspect of the game to total crap.

Car setup does effect suspension feedback, but not G Forces (red ball on the left).  
Increased corner-speed, however, does.  Increased speed Increases G, which would show on the telemetry.  Really basic basic stuff.  
You see the absolute opposite happen, yet still defend the obvious ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM...

You keep asking for evidence and I keep sending it, you keep ignoring it, but you keep asking for more.
Should we all take this blinkered approach as a clear message to like it or lump it?  Yeah? 
We should Bow down to the unskilled rookie Gods of Gravity mod and get on with it? 

Im being serious too, Man up & just tell me the way you want me to play it, instead of tip-toeing around the issue.  Its Easy!  
Gravity Cheating is either something CM have an interest in tackling (which you keep leading me to believe since the start of EA), or its just lip-service and to be accepted as just the way its going to be?  

All throughout EA, I have given feedback as requested, in an effort to tackle an obvious problem that no-one else could see, which has since grown arms and legs.  I have wasted plenty of time on it.  You either need the info, or aren't fussed on getting it.  Decide!

Just give me a definitive answer, I don't mind either way!??
You are totally missing peoples point here. We can't trust that Telemetry app at all and you ignored my comment about telemetry being there to help motion simulators work, not giving us setup analysis information. 

I tested telemetry without any modifications into it's settings and still it wasn't working properly. 

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I know Kakkela, you need to change a few lines in the hardware settings file to get it to communicate.  Its the same section that gets my shift-lights working in the wheel.

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KevM said:
I know Kakkela, you need to change a few lines in the hardware settings file to get it to communicate.  Its the same section that gets my shift-lights working in the wheel.
Of course I did that. I meant telemetry programs own configures. 
Btw you know what those lines are named under hardware settings ? MOTION_PLATFORM

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"g-force (with g from gravitational) is a measurement of the type of acceleration that causes weight. Despite the name, it is incorrect to consider g-force a fundamental force, as "g-force" (lower case character) is a type of acceleration that can be measured with an accelerometer. Since g-force accelerations indirectly produce weight, any g-force can be described as a "weight per unit mass" (see the synonym specific weight). When the g-force acceleration is produced by the surface of one object being pushed by the surface of another object, the reaction-force to this push produces an equal and opposite weight for every unit of an object's mass. The types of forces involved are transmitted through objects by interior mechanical stresses. The g-force acceleration (save for certain electromagnetic force influences) is the cause of an object's acceleration in relation to free-fall.["
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-force

Stiffer suspension mean higher Gravity. So whatever come up to this gball being mostly stuck on place really mean the physic is different.





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And think of the anti-climax it would be, if the MOTION_PLATFORM you were sitting on, worked brilliantly if you are only 'slow' like me, but stayed virtually still every time you went really really really fast....  :)

The internet would be full of  complaints!

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I'm not saying the telemetry data is wrong, I'm saying that Telemetry Program is showing it wrongly due to bug or something else. It's not automatically cheating if some 3rd party software isn't working properly.

And suspension data is there probably for buttkicker like devices that won't activate on small leaning etc. so the data probably isn't showing all of the suspension movement, just the ones that should be felt inside car. And those will be more regular when driving 10-20kmh faster on bumps versus your own driving. There's no point comparing your own driving to gheeD as a proof to cheating as Skiddy said.

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No, it's not automatically cheating, but the likelihood is, the data is accurate.  Visually, an M3 can't change direction on Finnish gravel in the manner it does.  

Im not saying gheeD is knowingly cheating, but he's playing with very different handling to the game I play, & it's not down to my lack of ability.  Anomaly? Who knows....

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its this simple you wont find out who cheats or not unless you find them on the cheat sites or aliases linked to the cheats.dont waste your time on watching videos.

the devs should download get all the cheats available and try and see what they are doing man they are cheap are free so a professional studio should be able to stop this.some will be cheating at the top the difference is if you cant prove it its pointless ranting on about it.

doesn't matter if you know people as friends or not . i have been a anti cheat admin for years.one thing i have found is anyone cheats.it doesn't matter who they are . friends/family/mates you known gamed with for years. i used to do ip checks all sorts. quite interesting. :)

it is crap that those lows do cheat but unless the effort is put in to stop it or you happen to find them on the cheat sites you will never know.

sad but true.



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KevM said:

Yeah, I dont have the facility to do that and I think you know it!   I could have DL'd it months ago, but honestly, it looks like it turns the driving aspect of the game to total crap.

Car setup does effect suspension feedback, but not G Forces (red ball on the left).  
Increased corner-speed, however, does.  Increased speed Increases G, which would show on the telemetry.  Really basic basic stuff.  
You see the absolute opposite happen, yet still defend the obvious ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM...

You keep asking for evidence and I keep sending it, you keep ignoring it, but you keep asking for more.
Should we all take this blinkered approach as a clear message to like it or lump it?  Yeah? 
We should Bow down to the unskilled rookie Gods of Gravity mod and get on with it? 

Im being serious too, Man up & just tell me the way you want me to play it, instead of tip-toeing around the issue.  Its Easy!  
Gravity Cheating is either something CM have an interest in tackling (which you keep leading me to believe since the start of EA), or its just lip-service and to be accepted as just the way its going to be?  

All throughout EA, I have given feedback as requested, in an effort to tackle an obvious problem that no-one else could see, which has since grown arms and legs.  I have wasted plenty of time on it.  You either need the info, or aren't fussed on getting it.  Decide!

Just give me a definitive answer, I don't mind either way!??

Actually, I honestly thought you'd still have the thing seeing as how you posted a video of you using it only yesterday. 

I gave Codies everything you gave me, as far as I know (they tell me just as much as they tell you) they are using it. They acknowledged it in one of the shows a couple of weeks after I passed the info on.The one were they said they couldn't go into details, but they had received some interesting information and were looking into how to apply it to the game. Cue the knowing wink to camera.

Who do you think they were telling that info to? Could it be the person who gave them that new informaton, someone who was waiting for an answer, someone who was watching the show?

And you were watching the show, or at least, you were posting in chat in the Twitter room while the show was going on. It was also the same episode where they told everyone that Porkhammer had now got the dubious honour of being the most, checked, tested and prodded forum member they had ever had, and that he passed the tests with flying colours.

I thought that would stop it, nope. You made a thread saying all top 10 times were impossible cheat times. I posted photos of me setting a a 5th, while tuning the slowest car in class. Which means you are either wrong about all those times being hacked, or you think I'm one of those cheats. But I ignored the implication, just like you ignored the fact that I had just proven the thread wrong.

A lot of your arguements are "If you know what you're looking at, you can tell". I've been playing racing games for over 35 years and setting top 10 times on the net for 14 of them and I still don't see what you see. Are there cheats out there with hacks? Yes. Will some of those cheats be in the top 10? Yes. Is everyone who sets a top 10 time a cheat? Nope.

You want to know why the problem grew arms and legs? You fed it by posting your belief across the forum. Half the idiots using the hacks now will have only heard about them because told them that they exist.

You want me to man up and tell you what I want?

I want you to man up and accept the fact that Porkhammer is faster than you

I want you to shut up about cheat/hacks unless you can prove people are using them and if you can prove people are using them I want you to do what Codies have said do. Send someone @Codies the relevant information in a pm, not post it on the forum for all and sundry to see. Because once it's posted on the forum, no one can control the spread of that information. (I got a snotty pm from someone once because I'd deleted their info on being able to restart the Dailies, so I pointed out that his thread had over 250 views and no comments, who did he think had read it, and how many did he think were now restarting the Dailies. He said he hadn't thought about it like that before, but by then it was too late, the damage was done. Now everyone knows that particular problem.)

I want you to stop trying to blame and shame someone who has already passed the tests you're demanding they go through.

For the record. I'm not defending my mates here either. Yes, I have a lot of them on my friendslist on steam, but I don't play with any of them and I only know them from the forum. The person on here I talk to most funnily enough, is you. I honestly believe that your heart is the right place, but that you've gone about it all wrong.


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Kakkela said:
I'm not saying the telemetry data is wrong, I'm saying that Telemetry Program is showing it wrongly due to bug or something else. It's not automatically cheating if some 3rd party software isn't working properly.

And suspension data is there probably for buttkicker like devices that won't activate on small leaning etc. so the data probably isn't showing all of the suspension movement, just the ones that should be felt inside car. And those will be more regular when driving 10-20kmh faster on bumps versus your own driving. There's no point comparing your own driving to gheeD as a proof to cheating as Skiddy said.
I'm pretty sure the telemetry mod work properly. They are talented no doubt, but not running the same physic in my opinion.

I think it's more of a problem like that...


My bet is if they delete all the contents except for the tracks & cars folder & verify the content of the game cache... Run the game again with no mod, they shouldn't be able to corner & switch direction at the same speed.

I remember about complaining about car setup not working of another users, so the probability of the game local content been broken is high.

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@MrDeap and @KevM , go to workshop and test @Porkhammer's setup for M3 and Finland.

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Kakkela said:
@MrDeap and @KevM , go to workshop and test @Porkhammer's setup for M3 and Finland.
I think it's better to leave people who are paid for it to do this job. :)

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MrDeap said:
Kakkela said:
@MrDeap and @KevM , go to workshop and test @Porkhammer's setup for M3 and Finland.
I think it's better to leave people who are paid for it to do this job. :)
Then you don't have any say as to how M3 behaves in DiRT rally normally.

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Here my g ball with porkhammer setup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGEsIAowHcA

I doubt a lot the telemetry can be bugged as it use the same data for a simulator chair.

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