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Will DAS be in 2020

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16 hours ago, SingaporeTrackLizard said:

With this new Mercedes steering wheel toe adjustmentconcept I was wondering if it will be in F1 2020?

QR wheels could have a new QR adapter with a hardware switch. Might take a little longer to come to the table than it takes Mercedes.

It'll probably be banned - it's not good for "the show" if Merc dominate 2020.

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It's a lot of work for Codies to do, for just a single year. The FIA have already banned it for 2021 forward, so I doubt it'll show up in the 2020 game.

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36 minutes ago, RyxProductions said:

It's a lot of work for Codies to do, for just a single year. The FIA have already banned it for 2021 forward, so I doubt it'll show up in the 2020 game.

How hard would it be to code a "magic mode" that just animates it happening when your tyre temps are high or when the wear is? Or even when you're pushing?

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20 minutes ago, steviejay69 said:

How hard would it be to code a "magic mode" that just animates it happening when your tyre temps are high or when the wear is? Or even when you're pushing?

It would be pretty cool to see it animate like you say.

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I hope not. I finally have programmedall 69 options on my wheel and have run out of button, switches and rotary's.

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13 hours ago, steviejay69 said:

How hard would it be to code a "magic mode" that just animates it happening when your tyre temps are high or when the wear is? Or even when you're pushing?

So what you mean is to have the model not accurately represent how the tires are simulated in the game? That'd basically be the only thing that could really be done, but it can also cause issues with people thinking their tires hitboxes are at different places. Though I wouldn't suggest drawing things differently from what they actually are.

Actually changing the positions would be too dangerous with the time the development team has

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1 hour ago, UP100 said:

So what you mean is to have the model not accurately represent how the tires are simulated in the game? That'd basically be the only thing that could really be done, but it can also cause issues with people thinking their tires hitboxes are at different places. Though I wouldn't suggest drawing things differently from what they actually are.

Actually changing the positions would be too dangerous with the time the development team has

No, I'm sure values other thantoe are altered with orwithout input during gameplay:classic_rolleyes:

What I mean is rather than it be activated by a player pressing another button, the Mercedes could have 'toe magic' values activated like I said. The amount of movement on the wheels is *insignificant* going on the *outstanding* accuracy of the current hitboxes.

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1 hour ago, steviejay69 said:

No, I'm sure values other thantoe are altered with orwithout input during gameplay:classic_rolleyes:

What I mean is rather than it be activated by a player pressing another button, the Mercedes could have 'toe magic' values activated like I said. The amount of movement on the wheels is *insignificant* going on the *outstanding* accuracy of the current hitboxes.

In real life it is quite insignificant, but the amount of movement is definitely not insignificant in a game like this. In the worst case it could cause significantly more physics issues that we've seen in the past with some setups (such as the wheelie cars, or flipping upside down from touching a kerb)

Turning the wheel even a millimetre has to be done in some kind of force cause otherwise the car could clip into a wall if the driver is scraping it for example.

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34 minutes ago, UP100 said:

In real life it is quite insignificant, but the amount of movement is definitely not insignificant in a game like this. In the worst case it could cause significantly more physics issues that we've seen in the past with some setups (such as the wheelie cars, or flipping upside down from touching a kerb)

Turning the wheel even a millimetre has to be done in some kind of force cause otherwise the car could clip into a wall if the driver is scraping it for example.

How can you even argue this? What you're basically saying is the game is poorly coded for physics. Not a great position to be at - you should be talking the game up, not exposing it's inadequacies - but the inadequacies are there to be seen. I don't suppose it's news to anyone here....

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1 hour ago, steviejay69 said:

How can you even argue this? What you're basically saying is the game is poorly coded for physics. Not a great position to be at - you should be talking the game up, not exposing it's inadequacies - but the inadequacies are there to be seen. I don't suppose it's news to anyone here....

All physics based games are quite full of physics based issues. They're not rare. I suspect changing the toe around on specific parts of the track could cause massive issues such as going through the track.

If you want some examples about physics issues in other games:

  • All EA Sports titles -> Players stuck in walls, players frozen in place, player flies out of the arena after a collision, ball/puck going through a player etc.
  • Other sports games like eFootball PES
  • Grand Theft Auto series -> Some communities know its random bounces that just happen sometimes, more apparent on 4 in which the vehicles' suspensions moved like crazy. Also warping through walls in ragdoll mode or flying into the sky after a collision are not unbelievably rare.
  • Space Engineers -> Dubbed as "clang", the phenomenon can cause forces out of thin air and eventually smash your build into pieces.
  • Most racing games -> See the user DragCarTV for example

If a game is trying to "simulate" complex physics, there will always be issues. Real life is much more stable thanks to the fact that we aren't bottlenecked by our hardware.

The word "simulate" is written like that because most games with physics significantly more simpler than trying to actually calculate what would happen in real life... because processing power is limited.

Edited by UP100

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5 minutes ago, UP100 said:

All physics based games are quite full of physics based issues. They're not rare. I suspect changing the toe around on specific parts of the track could cause massive issues such as going through the track.

If you want some examples about physics issues in other games:

  • All EA Sports titles -> Players stuck in walls, players frozen in place, player flies out of the arena after a collision, ball/puck going through a player etc.
  • Other sports games like eFootball PES
  • Grand Theft Auto series -> Some communities know its random bounces that just happen sometimes, more apparent on 4 in which the vehicles' suspensions moved like crazy. Also warping through walls in ragdoll mode or flying into the sky after a collision are not unbelievably rare.
  • Space Engineers -> Dubbed as "clang", the phenomenon can cause forces out of thin air and eventually smash your build into pieces.
  • Most racing games -> See the user DragCarTV for example

If a game is trying to "simulate" complex physics, there will always be issues. Real life is much more stable thanks to the fact that we aren't bottlenecked by our hardware.

The word "simulate" is written like that because most games with physics significantly more simpler than trying to actually calculate what would happen in real life... because processing power is limited.

I'm going to argue further. You can't wash that away by saying "all games have physics issues".

Mercedes can't alter the toe values beyond anything within the realms of legality and / or the settings defined by the game. Their car won't mishandle.

The issue with games is the cause and effect. Altering those values makes a *significant* difference IRL as Mercedes would not have bothered developing it.

Gamers would not be able to 'feel' any difference in handling, nor "see" the perceived effect if they were not realistic about what it achieves.

So I get the 'exaggeration'. But obviously, with exaggerated parameters and no overall check on the combinations, then crude computer physics will error out (at some points in some circumstances).

What I don't know (and this is a criticism I've levelled at the game previously) is whether the linear values for any attribute of setup (e.g. ride height 1-11) should be replaced with absolute values and whether this approach is unfeasible simply because of NDAs*. I have no doubt that for example 1-11 wing angles at Monza are different to 1-11 wing angles at Monaco, but should be within the limits of legality / possibility. If they're not then simply set a wing angle of 1 at Monaco and meet the barriers and 11 at Monza and be lapped in a 25% race....

* Because they may vary by car - or maybe the modelling is pretty simplistic and to give the cars sufficient 'individual' characteristics (that have been 'rebalanced' in Equal Car mode in previous games, instead of the obvious "use 1 car for Equal / Multiplayer mode" which may be against licensing) then it is not possible to have a consistent "range" of adjustment?

Oddly enough the Multiplayer Car (and Leagues to that end) are the things most requested by online leagues and I see neither in use in the established context.

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Perfect solution. We just have to wait and see if Lewis or Valterie will takeoff once on the straight.

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They cannot copy it from theolderF1 games so it wont be there.
Why put work in a new game when you can copy and reskin and get easy money like that?

Why fix the bugs? Who cares, ppl get used already to the same bugs every year they think its normal丹儭

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Absolutely it should, as it's a unique feature of the W11! The issue then becomes how and when to actuate it. They'll have to look at W11 datafrom the start of the season until the game is released to best determine how Lewis and Valtteri are using the new steering feature to apply it to the game. As a cockpit driver I can't wait to see some pull-back action via the steering wheel, such like how ERS is deployed manually!DASis F1 2020!

Edited by FOneFanatic

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Personally I doubt it'll be in the game but there's always a chance that CM can spring a surprise.

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19 hours ago, 1512marcel said:

Perfect solution. We just have to wait and see if Lewis or Valterie will takeoff once on the straight.

Edited by MarcoMaas

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Seems a bit gimmicky to me, I wonder how much time it actually gains, and how reliable (& safe) it is going to be?

Anyway, if it's in the Merc for 2020, really it should be included in the in-game Merc too, after all it's the official F1 game - a simple switch (like the DRS) would probably be enough, giving a tiny bit less drag on the straights, but less grip if used in the wrong places such as through turns.

And if CM are not already preparing to put it in, they could be caught out if other teams copy it and add it in as well. Teams are notoriously fast at copying things that work.

Edited by Morsify
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