Jump to content
Scheduled Updates and BETA Shutdown - 06/07/2020 Read more... ×
F1 2020 | KNOWN KEY ISSUES | READ ME!!! Read more... ×

What F1 2020 desperately needs

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

I've been playing the F1 games since last March. In that span, I've racked up close to 900 hours on both 2018 and 2019, winning multiple AOR league racing championships in the process. I consider myself to be an above average driver, not the fastest by any means, but definitely capable of putting down some solid lap times. Over my year of sim racing I've also dabbled in several other sims, mainly iRacing and Assetto Corsa. Having played all 3 games quite intensively, I've noticed what I enjoy about each game and where they excel. After coming back to F1 after playing the other two for several months, it really leaves a lot to be desired. Please don't get me wrong, F1 2019 is a great game, but it isn't without it's faults and there are some things that need to be done way better. There are several main points that I'll be going over, which if improved, will drastically increase the quality of the game. I'll be referencing iRacing and AC quite often throughout as I feel like Codemasters could learn a lot from how these two simulations implement certain aspects.

 

Force feedback/tyres

These two go hand-in-hand as the what the tyres are doing is directly translated through the force feedback. While this is area that has drastically improved over the years, it still has a long way to go. My biggest issue is that you can never properly feel when the car is on the edge of grip. I've lost count of the amount of times I've spun with absolutely no warning that I was about to lose traction. When you're driving the fastest circuit cars in the world, you absolutely need to be able to feel when you're on the edge of grip. The understeer enhanced feature is definitely not the way to go with this. In iRacing, when you're pushing the car hard, you can feel and hear where the edge is, allowing yourself to extract the maximum from the car. You'll notice I said hear and this is a pretty crucial aspect. In both iRacing and Assetto Corsa, your tyres will quite literally be screeching at you as you near the edge of their grip. The feel part is hard to explain, but whatever they're doing differently in their FFB allows you to toe the line better than the F1 games. Anyone who has played either will understand what I'm talking about. 

Locking up your tyres in real-life racing is a huge no-no, but in F1 2019, it's not punished at all. This creates unrealistic driving styles that completely ruin the immersion, similar to how people were exploiting high rear ballast systems in F1 2018. I like the direction Codemasters are heading with the FFB, but it is one area that needs to be focused on.

 

Sound

Checkout this short clip of the RSS Formula Hybrid X 2021 mod for Assetto Corsa. This is a community created mod and it captures the sound of an F1 car infinitely better than any of the F1 games. The cars in F1 2019 sound very flat and lifeless. Notice how aggressive the 2021 car sounds on the downshifts, listen to the turbo and ERS noises, IT'S SO GOOD. It amazes me how a mod team can create something better than a full-fledged game studio that specializes in racing games. When comparing the RSS mod to the honda engine in F1 2019 (the engine the RSS mod is based off), it's honestly a bit of a joke. The Renault engine, in my opinion, is the best sounding in 2019, but when you compare it to the one in real life it sounds nothing alike. Increasing the realism and sound quality of the cars will be a huge step in increasing the immersion in F1. At the moment, they're really nothing impressive at all. Continuing on my from previous point above regarding tyres, they need to be more dynamic in terms of sound. As we're driving virtually, we need as much information as possible from our eyes, hands and ears. 

 

HUD

This game desperately needs a virtual mirror. Having to use the look back feature to watch for overtaking cars is absurd. Of all the racing simulators I've played, F1 is the only game that doesn't feature a virtual mirror. It's stupid to have use the look back feature as you're approaching a heavy braking zone at 300+ km/h. Having a virtual mirror will allow better battles on track as drivers will have much better awareness of what's going on around them.

2019 took a huge step in the right direction with the introduction of being able to customize your HUD, but they need to take it a few steps further. In iRacing, I use a piece of software called "Joel Real Timing". This application allows me to create an overlay that I can display on my screen while racing. These overlays can include a massive amount of information including a track map (iRacing doesn't have this by default), full leader boards with gaps, deltas, pit stops, fastest laps, average laps, along with custom fuel calculators. Basically, you have enough information to fill your entire screen. F1 2019 pales in comparison. At the very least, give us a leader board that shows all 20 drivers and the intervals between. Having a track map is awesome, but I want to be able to see how many seconds the car I'm chasing down is ahead, at ANY GIVEN TIME, not at the beginning of a sector or the start of a lap. I want to be able to see how many tenths I'm gaining a lap and I want to be able to see how many laps into his stint he is. This is basic information and I'm honestly having a hard time going back to the game after being spoiled with this in iRacing.

The next point is a bit nit-picky but nonetheless, is something I'd like to see. In the t-cam view, you can see exactly how much throttle and brake you're giving. When driving in cockpit, this information is gone. Why? Can this not be part of the custom HUD elements that we can drag wherever we want on screen? 

 

ERS

This has been another point of controversy ever since it's been added. The system we have now works, but it is not realistic and requires WAY too much micro-managing. To maximize your lap times, you really need to be adjusting your ERS on the majority of corners, particularly low-speed. Some find this fun and it is rewarding once you get it figured out, but as Lando Norris said in one of his youtube videos, it's simply not realistic. I can totally understand the difficulty in trying to replicate this system, as it's likely that every team has a different mapping for each track, but there has to be a way to make this easier to manage in a race scenario. I think we definitely need to have an overtake/push to pass button for maximum deployment (similar power to setting 4 - overtake in the MFD) and we should be able to cycle between two modes (they could be called deploy and harvest). Then, it would just be matter of selecting harvest through slow sections and before big braking zones and then using deploy through high-speed corners and straights. Obviously the system would need to be a lot more fine-tuned than this, but I think that would be a better direction to go than what we currently have.

 

To conclude

While this post may just seem like I'm sh*tting on the F1 games, I assure you, it's coming from a place of love. I see so much potential in these games and I just find they're lacking in very basic elements. I haven't touched on physics as that is something Codemasters has done quite well. They've found a really good balance between simulator and arcade. F1 cars are incredibly hard to drive and the physics are realistic enough that you are punished for your mistakes, but the cars are totally drive-able. If anyone has tried the McLaren in iRacing, you'll understand where I'm coming from. That car is an absolute chore to drive and I don't find it fun at all. Codemasters have found the sweet spot where it comes to realism and driveability, giving you a fairly fun F1 experience. It is by no means perfect, but I think that with a great team of developers these games can be turned into masterpieces. Spend less time on the stupid DLC packs and the gimmicky stuff that nobody cares about and invest more on what matters the most, the driving experience.

Edited by illicit95
added content
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2
  • Agree 13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bruh....

 

i feel you, I really do. I love your feedback and how detailed you are. 
 

BUT!!!!

 

sadly, these things are said against ignorant designers, who don't want to hear the FFB is terrible, sound sucks, and HUD is ****. We are posting these things for years, but no improvement. 
 

sorry for their ignorance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/6/2020 at 11:42 PM, illicit95 said:

I've been playing the F1 games since last March. In that span, I've racked up close to 900 hours on both 2018 and 2019, winning multiple AOR league racing championships in the process. I consider myself to be an above average driver, not the fastest by any means, but definitely capable of putting down some impressive lap times. Over my year of sim racing I've also dabbled in several other sims, mainly iRacing and Assetto Corsa. Having played all 3 games quite intensively, I've noticed what I enjoy about each game and where they excel. After coming back to F1 after playing the other two for several months, it really leaves a lot to be desired. Please don't get me wrong, F1 2019 is a great game, but it isn't without it's faults and there are some things that need to be done way better. There are several main points that I'll be going over, which if improved, will drastically increase the quality of the game. I'll be referencing iRacing and AC quite often throughout as I feel like Codemasters could learn a lot from how these two simulations implement certain aspects.

 

Force feedback/tyres

These two go hand-in-hand as the what the tyres are doing is directly translated through the force feedback. While this is area that has drastically improved over the years, it still has a long way to go. My biggest issue is that you can never properly feel when the car is on the edge of grip. I've lost count of the amount of times I've spun with absolutely no warning that I was about to lose traction. When you're driving the fastest circuit cars in the world, you absolutely need to be able to feel when you're on the edge of grip. The understeer enhanced feature is definitely not the way to go with this. In iRacing, when you're pushing the car hard, you can feel and hear where the edge is, allowing yourself to extract the maximum from the car. You'll notice I said hear and this is a pretty crucial aspect. In both iRacing and Assetto Corsa, your tyres will quite literally be screeching at you as you near the edge of their grip. The feel part is hard to explain, but whatever they're doing differently in their FFB allows you to toe the line better than the F1 games. Anyone who has played either will understand what I'm talking about. 

Locking up your tyres in real-life racing is a huge no-no, but in F1 2019, it's not punished at all. This creates unrealistic driving styles that completely ruin the immersion, similar to how people were exploiting high rear ballast systems in F1 2018. I like the direction Codemasters are heading with the FFB, but it is one area that needs to be focused on.

 

Sound

Checkout this short clip of the RSS Formula Hybrid X 2021 mod for Assetto Corsa. This is a community created mod and it captures the sound of an F1 car infinitely better than any of the F1 games. The cars in F1 2019 sound very flat and lifeless. Notice how aggressive the 2021 car sounds on the downshifts, listen to the turbo and ERS noises, IT'S SO GOOD. It amazes me how a mod team can create something better than a full-fledged game studio that specializes in racing games. When comparing the RSS mod to the honda engine in F1 2019 (the engine the RSS mod is based off), it's honestly a bit of a joke. The Renault engine, in my opinion, is the best sounding in 2019, but when you compare it to the one in real life it sounds nothing alike. Increasing the realism and sound quality of the cars will be a huge step in increasing the immersion in F1. At the moment, they're really nothing impressive at all. Continuing on my from previous point above regarding tyres, they need to be more dynamic in terms of sound. As we're driving virtually, we need as much information as possible from our eyes, hands and ears. 

 

HUD

This game desperately needs a virtual mirror. Having to use the look back feature to watch for overtaking cars is absurd. Of all the racing simulators I've played, F1 is the only game that doesn't feature a virtual mirror. It's stupid to have use the look back feature as you're approaching a heavy braking zone at 300+ km/h. Having a virtual mirror will allow better battles on track as drivers will have much better awareness of what's going on around them.

2019 took a huge step in the right direction with the introduction of being able to customize your HUD, but they need to take it a few steps further. In iRacing, I use a piece of software called "Joel Real Timing". This application allows me to create an overlay that I can display on my screen while racing. These overlays can include a massive amount of information including a track map (iRacing doesn't have this by default), full leader boards with gaps, deltas, pit stops, fastest laps, average laps, along with custom fuel calculators. Basically, you have enough information to fill your entire screen. F1 2019 pales in comparison. At the very least, give us a leader board that shows all 20 drivers and the intervals between. Having a track map is awesome, but I want to be able to see how many seconds the car I'm chasing down is ahead, at ANY GIVEN TIME, not at the beginning of a sector or the start of a lap. I want to be able to see how many tenths I'm gaining a lap and I want to be able to see how many laps into his stint he is. This is basic information and I'm honestly having a hard time going back to the game after being spoiled with this in iRacing.

The next point is a bit nit-picky but nonetheless, is something I'd like to see. In the t-cam view, you can see exactly how much throttle and brake you're giving. When driving in cockpit, this information is gone. Why? Can this not be part of the custom HUD elements that we can drag wherever we want on screen? 

 

To conclude

While this post may just seem like I'm sh*tting on the F1 games, I assure you, it's coming from a place of love. I see so much potential in these games and I just find they're lacking in very basic elements. I haven't touched on physics as that is something Codemasters has done quite well. They've found a really good balance between simulator and arcade. F1 cars are incredibly hard to drive and the physics are realistic enough that you are punished for your mistakes, but the cars are totally drive-able. If anyone has tried the McLaren in iRacing, you'll understand where I'm coming from. That car is an absolute chore to drive and I don't find it fun at all. Codemasters have found the sweet spot where it comes to realism and driveability, giving you a fairly fun F1 experience. It is by no means perfect, but I think that with a great team of developers these games can be turned into masterpieces. Spend less time on the stupid DLC packs and the gimmicky stuff that nobody cares about and invest more on what matters the most, the driving experience.

Thanks @illicit95 for an impressive, spot on post. And I guess @AlexTT's comment is not far besides the thruth either allthough I would refrase it different. I like this post because it narrows down the 10.000 posts/threads of minor bugs, wishes and other nice to have things for the next game to the most essential things for a racegame to fix or improve. 

@BarryBL, @RedDevilKT, please take this one to the devs and point out the importance of this post. And add network/multiplayer stabillity to it as well. If these four issues are addressed properly you have the base of a perfect game.

  • Thanks 1
  • Agree 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 1512marcel said:

Thanks @illicit95 for an impressive, spot on post. And I guess @AlexTT's comment is not far besides the thruth either allthough I would refrase it different. I like this post because it narrows down the 10.000 posts/threads of minor bugs, wishes and other nice to have things for the next game to the most essential things for a racegame to fix or improve. 

@BarryBL, @RedDevilKT, please take this one to the devs and point out the importance of this post. And add network/multiplayer stabillity to it as well. If these four issues are addressed properly you have the base of a perfect game.

@1512marcel, after tons of posts, comprehensive or not, (I made some posts that are really comprehensive, seen the one about the online lobbies I made?) and never any response, it's sort of human to get frustrated. The FFB is simply horrendous, no feedback whatsoever, and this is going on for years, after every patch the FFB is terrible. 
 

and when you're trying to make someone aware of it at codemasters, in any way possible, like post here, Private message, email, faxing, smoke signals, hell I even sent pigeons! But no response and patch after patch it gets worse. Yeah no wonder people start to react in such a way. 
especially if you see that Lee Doesn'tmatter guy on streams "WE HAVE BEEN LISTENING TO OUR PLAYERS, 2 YEARS IN DEVELOPMENT (which was a blatant copy of 2017 with exact the same issues), blablablablaaaaa, I really have to watch not to throw up. That's what happens with me when people have the guts to lie to everyone on camera with a smile on their face.

 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear you mate, no worries, and believe me, I have been around here for quite some years so I know the drill. And being a moderator now, doesn't mean I can't have an open opinion on matters and I do understand that after repeating yourself over and over sometimes the tone gets sarcastic or worse. To be honest, I didn't read your post because online and leagues isn't my thing yet but after some sessions recently I now understand more of the frustration and I will read your post.

Things I learnt over the years on the forum is to scan and judge content very quick and this one rose above the mainstream without being disrespectful towards others. To me, this one was an eyeopener because it's just about the basics of racing game. That's why I gave it the attention which I believe it deserves. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 3/6/2020 at 10:42 PM, illicit95 said:

I've been playing the F1 games since last March. In that span, I've racked up close to 900 hours on both 2018 and 2019, winning multiple AOR league racing championships in the process. I consider myself to be an above average driver, not the fastest by any means, but definitely capable of putting down some impressive lap times. Over my year of sim racing I've also dabbled in several other sims, mainly iRacing and Assetto Corsa. Having played all 3 games quite intensively, I've noticed what I enjoy about each game and where they excel. After coming back to F1 after playing the other two for several months, it really leaves a lot to be desired. Please don't get me wrong, F1 2019 is a great game, but it isn't without it's faults and there are some things that need to be done way better. There are several main points that I'll be going over, which if improved, will drastically increase the quality of the game. I'll be referencing iRacing and AC quite often throughout as I feel like Codemasters could learn a lot from how these two simulations implement certain aspects.

 

Force feedback/tyres

These two go hand-in-hand as the what the tyres are doing is directly translated through the force feedback. While this is area that has drastically improved over the years, it still has a long way to go. My biggest issue is that you can never properly feel when the car is on the edge of grip. I've lost count of the amount of times I've spun with absolutely no warning that I was about to lose traction. When you're driving the fastest circuit cars in the world, you absolutely need to be able to feel when you're on the edge of grip. The understeer enhanced feature is definitely not the way to go with this. In iRacing, when you're pushing the car hard, you can feel and hear where the edge is, allowing yourself to extract the maximum from the car. You'll notice I said hear and this is a pretty crucial aspect. In both iRacing and Assetto Corsa, your tyres will quite literally be screeching at you as you near the edge of their grip. The feel part is hard to explain, but whatever they're doing differently in their FFB allows you to toe the line better than the F1 games. Anyone who has played either will understand what I'm talking about. 

Locking up your tyres in real-life racing is a huge no-no, but in F1 2019, it's not punished at all. This creates unrealistic driving styles that completely ruin the immersion, similar to how people were exploiting high rear ballast systems in F1 2018. I like the direction Codemasters are heading with the FFB, but it is one area that needs to be focused on.

 

Sound

Checkout this short clip of the RSS Formula Hybrid X 2021 mod for Assetto Corsa. This is a community created mod and it captures the sound of an F1 car infinitely better than any of the F1 games. The cars in F1 2019 sound very flat and lifeless. Notice how aggressive the 2021 car sounds on the downshifts, listen to the turbo and ERS noises, IT'S SO GOOD. It amazes me how a mod team can create something better than a full-fledged game studio that specializes in racing games. When comparing the RSS mod to the honda engine in F1 2019 (the engine the RSS mod is based off), it's honestly a bit of a joke. The Renault engine, in my opinion, is the best sounding in 2019, but when you compare it to the one in real life it sounds nothing alike. Increasing the realism and sound quality of the cars will be a huge step in increasing the immersion in F1. At the moment, they're really nothing impressive at all. Continuing on my from previous point above regarding tyres, they need to be more dynamic in terms of sound. As we're driving virtually, we need as much information as possible from our eyes, hands and ears. 

 

HUD

This game desperately needs a virtual mirror. Having to use the look back feature to watch for overtaking cars is absurd. Of all the racing simulators I've played, F1 is the only game that doesn't feature a virtual mirror. It's stupid to have use the look back feature as you're approaching a heavy braking zone at 300+ km/h. Having a virtual mirror will allow better battles on track as drivers will have much better awareness of what's going on around them.

2019 took a huge step in the right direction with the introduction of being able to customize your HUD, but they need to take it a few steps further. In iRacing, I use a piece of software called "Joel Real Timing". This application allows me to create an overlay that I can display on my screen while racing. These overlays can include a massive amount of information including a track map (iRacing doesn't have this by default), full leader boards with gaps, deltas, pit stops, fastest laps, average laps, along with custom fuel calculators. Basically, you have enough information to fill your entire screen. F1 2019 pales in comparison. At the very least, give us a leader board that shows all 20 drivers and the intervals between. Having a track map is awesome, but I want to be able to see how many seconds the car I'm chasing down is ahead, at ANY GIVEN TIME, not at the beginning of a sector or the start of a lap. I want to be able to see how many tenths I'm gaining a lap and I want to be able to see how many laps into his stint he is. This is basic information and I'm honestly having a hard time going back to the game after being spoiled with this in iRacing.

The next point is a bit nit-picky but nonetheless, is something I'd like to see. In the t-cam view, you can see exactly how much throttle and brake you're giving. When driving in cockpit, this information is gone. Why? Can this not be part of the custom HUD elements that we can drag wherever we want on screen? 

 

To conclude

While this post may just seem like I'm sh*tting on the F1 games, I assure you, it's coming from a place of love. I see so much potential in these games and I just find they're lacking in very basic elements. I haven't touched on physics as that is something Codemasters has done quite well. They've found a really good balance between simulator and arcade. F1 cars are incredibly hard to drive and the physics are realistic enough that you are punished for your mistakes, but the cars are totally drive-able. If anyone has tried the McLaren in iRacing, you'll understand where I'm coming from. That car is an absolute chore to drive and I don't find it fun at all. Codemasters have found the sweet spot where it comes to realism and driveability, giving you a fairly fun F1 experience. It is by no means perfect, but I think that with a great team of developers these games can be turned into masterpieces. Spend less time on the stupid DLC packs and the gimmicky stuff that nobody cares about and invest more on what matters the most, the driving experience.

I'd be willing to sacrifice sound if the weather system wasn't to scripted. We need a dynamic racing line system where if you gamble after a rain shower with dry tyres it may or may not pay off. The current system is all to predicable 

Edited by Chromatic
  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Madness engine have very great live track so we hope. Next thing is tyre and suspension is next big thing. They improving but very slowly. Main thing is to forgot pad/keyboard users if u want rly good tire/suspension model.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets not go in that direction and create another wishlist. Nor do we need to feed the wheel/pad discussion again. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Neomo said:

Madness engine have very great live track so we hope. Next thing is tyre and suspension is next big thing. They improving but very slowly. Main thing is to forgot pad/keyboard users if u want rly good tire/suspension model.

A RACING game is supposed to be about driving a car right? So the core focus should be dialed in for wheel users, and then build the pad/keyboard system around that. Not the other way around. That way you can balance the differences way better without compromising wheel.

if they want esports to get big, wheel needs to be main focus. And by that i concurr with OP, FFB must be improved by a mile. Imo built from the ground up with the knowledge of SMS and not an areogance like "we'll do it ourselfs" because we all know how that ends up right? 
 

if you have the knowledge, USE IT! 
 

same for graphics, i run cockpit, the PIXELS are horrendous. Colour doesn't gradually transfer, it's blocks everywhere. Sorry but for something with 10 car designs, 21 tracks and the rest, this is a joke for a ps4 (pro) and xbox (x) user. It looks cheap, quickly done, and without any respect for the cars nor the players.

*kuch* BUMP SUZUKA LAST CORNER FOR YEARS *kuch* 

Edited by AlexTT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, 1512marcel said:

Lets not go in that direction and create another wishlist. Nor do we need to feed the wheel/pad discussion again. 

Oh no it's nothing like that, i think the input here is actually good quality. It's not about that difference, it's about how to get the steering and FFB SPOT ON. The replies have nothing to do with wishlists, I see people sharing ideas on how to improve the whole system. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, AlexTT said:

A RACING game is supposed to be about driving a car right? So the core focus should be dialed in for wheel users, and then build the pad/keyboard system around that. Not the other way around. That way you can balance the differences way better without compromising wheel.

if they want esports to get big, wheel needs to be main focus. And by that i concurr with OP, FFB must be improved by a mile. Imo built from the ground up with the knowledge of SMS and not an areogance like "we'll do it ourselfs" because we all know how that ends up right? 
 

if you have the knowledge, USE IT! 
 

same for graphics, i run cockpit, the PIXELS are horrendous. Colour doesn't gradually transfer, it's blocks everywhere. Sorry but for something with 10 car designs, 21 tracks and the rest, this is a joke for a ps4 (pro) and xbox (x) user. It looks cheap, quickly done, and without any respect for the cars nor the players.

*kuch* BUMP SUZUKA LAST CORNER FOR YEARS *kuch* 

Ye i play on cockpit too and its bad.On triple screen with real fov the game feels like 30fps.I hate that head micro stuttering nonsense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, AlexTT said:

A RACING game is supposed to be about driving a car right? So the core focus should be dialed in for wheel users, and then build the pad/keyboard system around that. Not the other way around. That way you can balance the differences way better without compromising wheel.

if they want esports to get big, wheel needs to be main focus. And by that i concurr with OP, FFB must be improved by a mile. Imo built from the ground up with the knowledge of SMS and not an areogance like "we'll do it ourselfs" because we all know how that ends up right? 
 

if you have the knowledge, USE IT! 
 

same for graphics, i run cockpit, the PIXELS are horrendous. Colour doesn't gradually transfer, it's blocks everywhere. Sorry but for something with 10 car designs, 21 tracks and the rest, this is a joke for a ps4 (pro) and xbox (x) user. It looks cheap, quickly done, and without any respect for the cars nor the players.

*kuch* BUMP SUZUKA LAST CORNER FOR YEARS *kuch* 

Codemasters bought SMS a few months back. Yay! 😃 or OMFG 😱 ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, steviejay69 said:

Codemasters bought SMS a few months back. Yay! 😃 or OMFG 😱 ?

That's what I said about using the knowledge from SMS to improve graphics looking at the graphical quality of what they produce.

when in cockpit, even in 4K HDR, colour graduation is not even, it's just pixels. What's the use of having 4K when the developper itself designs something that looks like PS3 design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On 3/9/2020 at 5:49 AM, 1512marcel said:

Thanks @illicit95 for an impressive, spot on post. And I guess @AlexTT's comment is not far besides the thruth either allthough I would refrase it different. I like this post because it narrows down the 10.000 posts/threads of minor bugs, wishes and other nice to have things for the next game to the most essential things for a racegame to fix or improve. 

@BarryBL, @RedDevilKT, please take this one to the devs and point out the importance of this post. And add network/multiplayer stabillity to it as well. If these four issues are addressed properly you have the base of a perfect game.

Thanks for your response, I'm glad this post is getting some traction. Of course, there are dozens of things to wish for, but that could be said about any game. I tried to be as realistic as possible in terms of what is actually achievable with the direction Codemasters want to take this game. The F1 games are good, but with some changes and more of a focus on the driving experience, they can be great.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've added my opinion about ERS to the original post, but I'll include it here for anyone new browsing the thread.

ERS

This has been another point of controversy ever since it's been added. The system we have now works, but it is not realistic and requires WAY too much micro-managing. To maximize your lap times, you really need to be adjusting your ERS on the majority of corners, particularly low-speed. Some find this fun and it is rewarding once you get it figured out, but as Lando Norris said in one of his youtube videos, it's simply not realistic. I can totally understand the difficulty in trying to replicate this system, as it's likely that every team has a different mapping for each track, but there has to be a way to make this easier to manage in a race scenario. I think we definitely need to have an overtake/push to pass button for maximum deployment (similar power to setting 4 - overtake in the MFD) and we should be able to cycle between two modes (they could be called deploy and harvest). Then, it would just be matter of selecting harvest through slow sections and before big braking zones and then using deploy through high-speed corners and straights. Obviously the system would need to be a lot more fine-tuned than this, but I think that would be a better direction to go than what we currently have.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me, the things needed are:

-Failures for both CPU and user (with the option to turn them off)

-Better simulation model: I was racing in F2 at Monaco, I was second and I retired and De Vries won the race and he was like 9th at the moment (not to mention the career bug for sessions in which the user is not involved)

-Better strategy from the AI, I've had a race recently in which the AI pitted on average 6 times (literally putting wet tyres for 2 laps when the report said it was eventually going to dry)

Setups and presets for each track: it's unfair at Monaco to fight with the AI with 6-6 wings and it's unfair for the AI to have an adjusted pace at Monza and fight with the user on the straight when the user is running with 2/3 wings.

More mistakes by the AI and less perfect wheel to wheel racing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, illicit95 said:

I've added my opinion about ERS to the original post, but I'll include it here for anyone new browsing the thread.

ERS

This has been another point of controversy ever since it's been added. The system we have now works, but it is not realistic and requires WAY too much micro-managing. To maximize your lap times, you really need to be adjusting your ERS on the majority of corners, particularly low-speed. Some find this fun and it is rewarding once you get it figured out, but as Lando Norris said in one of his youtube videos, it's simply not realistic. I can totally understand the difficulty in trying to replicate this system, as it's likely that every team has a different mapping for each track, but there has to be a way to make this easier to manage in a race scenario. I think we definitely need to have an overtake/push to pass button for maximum deployment (similar power to setting 4 - overtake in the MFD) and we should be able to cycle between two modes (they could be called deploy and harvest). Then, it would just be matter of selecting harvest through slow sections and before big braking zones and then using deploy through high-speed corners and straights. Obviously the system would need to be a lot more fine-tuned than this, but I think that would be a better direction to go than what we currently have.

I agree partially. As I said in that thread too, the ERS is not completely unrealistic. Offline I run mode 1 as conservative/harvesting mode, mode 2 as the average pace and mode 3 to have more power in a couple of laps (undercut and overcut situations). And mode 4 only to overtake (hope to see that connected to a button). And mode 5 for hotlaps.

Playing that way gives me realism offline and I think that was the way they designed ers (and if you think about it, it's not that far from the way Kunos brought the ERS to Assetto Corsa)

The problem is that changing mode is more productive and league racing makes it the way to go online...

For example:

I usually use mode 2 with charge around 40/60% then I switch to mode 1 to save energy up to 65/70% and only use mode 3 in laps or situation that requires me pushing.

When I change from mode 1 to mode 2 again, I usually save fuel.

So essentially I'm just cycling through modes and presets like in real life. That's the way ers should be, it was not designed to be live mapping of the energy deployed I guess. The same thing happened to fuel mixtures. It was the online and the competitive gaming that brought the idea of using lean in corners and chicanes.

I don't know for sure about ERS but I'm 100% sure about fuel mix. It became what it wasn't designed to be.

The same with driving techniques. I never change gear midcorner or brake on the high outside kerb where it shouldn't be possibile. It's something that I will never negotiate even if know that doing all those things make you faster.

Realism is about compromise at the moment. It's up to codemasters to work on the code, decide what should make you faster and what shouldn't and try to take away exploits...

Edited by sirio994

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps a duplicate need/wish

Race weekend "rerun", in game
Add the real data from practice, qualify and race into the game after the real race weekend is over. It would be a blast to join such an event in the game, including everything sush as yellow and red flags, weather, crashes etc etc...

Only problem I can see is that Codemaster have to release the game just before the regular season starts. Would ad that to my wish list as well, game release at the same time as the regular season starts.

And plz.... More force feedback settings...

All the best

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/6/2020 at 5:42 PM, illicit95 said:

I've been playing the F1 games since last March. In that span, I've racked up close to 900 hours on both 2018 and 2019, winning multiple AOR league racing championships in the process. I consider myself to be an above average driver, not the fastest by any means, but definitely capable of putting down some impressive lap times. Over my year of sim racing I've also dabbled in several other sims, mainly iRacing and Assetto Corsa. Having played all 3 games quite intensively, I've noticed what I enjoy about each game and where they excel. After coming back to F1 after playing the other two for several months, it really leaves a lot to be desired. Please don't get me wrong, F1 2019 is a great game, but it isn't without it's faults and there are some things that need to be done way better. There are several main points that I'll be going over, which if improved, will drastically increase the quality of the game. I'll be referencing iRacing and AC quite often throughout as I feel like Codemasters could learn a lot from how these two simulations implement certain aspects.

 

Force feedback/tyres

These two go hand-in-hand as the what the tyres are doing is directly translated through the force feedback. While this is area that has drastically improved over the years, it still has a long way to go. My biggest issue is that you can never properly feel when the car is on the edge of grip. I've lost count of the amount of times I've spun with absolutely no warning that I was about to lose traction. When you're driving the fastest circuit cars in the world, you absolutely need to be able to feel when you're on the edge of grip. The understeer enhanced feature is definitely not the way to go with this. In iRacing, when you're pushing the car hard, you can feel and hear where the edge is, allowing yourself to extract the maximum from the car. You'll notice I said hear and this is a pretty crucial aspect. In both iRacing and Assetto Corsa, your tyres will quite literally be screeching at you as you near the edge of their grip. The feel part is hard to explain, but whatever they're doing differently in their FFB allows you to toe the line better than the F1 games. Anyone who has played either will understand what I'm talking about. 

Locking up your tyres in real-life racing is a huge no-no, but in F1 2019, it's not punished at all. This creates unrealistic driving styles that completely ruin the immersion, similar to how people were exploiting high rear ballast systems in F1 2018. I like the direction Codemasters are heading with the FFB, but it is one area that needs to be focused on.

 

Sound

Checkout this short clip of the RSS Formula Hybrid X 2021 mod for Assetto Corsa. This is a community created mod and it captures the sound of an F1 car infinitely better than any of the F1 games. The cars in F1 2019 sound very flat and lifeless. Notice how aggressive the 2021 car sounds on the downshifts, listen to the turbo and ERS noises, IT'S SO GOOD. It amazes me how a mod team can create something better than a full-fledged game studio that specializes in racing games. When comparing the RSS mod to the honda engine in F1 2019 (the engine the RSS mod is based off), it's honestly a bit of a joke. The Renault engine, in my opinion, is the best sounding in 2019, but when you compare it to the one in real life it sounds nothing alike. Increasing the realism and sound quality of the cars will be a huge step in increasing the immersion in F1. At the moment, they're really nothing impressive at all. Continuing on my from previous point above regarding tyres, they need to be more dynamic in terms of sound. As we're driving virtually, we need as much information as possible from our eyes, hands and ears. 

 

HUD

This game desperately needs a virtual mirror. Having to use the look back feature to watch for overtaking cars is absurd. Of all the racing simulators I've played, F1 is the only game that doesn't feature a virtual mirror. It's stupid to have use the look back feature as you're approaching a heavy braking zone at 300+ km/h. Having a virtual mirror will allow better battles on track as drivers will have much better awareness of what's going on around them.

2019 took a huge step in the right direction with the introduction of being able to customize your HUD, but they need to take it a few steps further. In iRacing, I use a piece of software called "Joel Real Timing". This application allows me to create an overlay that I can display on my screen while racing. These overlays can include a massive amount of information including a track map (iRacing doesn't have this by default), full leader boards with gaps, deltas, pit stops, fastest laps, average laps, along with custom fuel calculators. Basically, you have enough information to fill your entire screen. F1 2019 pales in comparison. At the very least, give us a leader board that shows all 20 drivers and the intervals between. Having a track map is awesome, but I want to be able to see how many seconds the car I'm chasing down is ahead, at ANY GIVEN TIME, not at the beginning of a sector or the start of a lap. I want to be able to see how many tenths I'm gaining a lap and I want to be able to see how many laps into his stint he is. This is basic information and I'm honestly having a hard time going back to the game after being spoiled with this in iRacing.

The next point is a bit nit-picky but nonetheless, is something I'd like to see. In the t-cam view, you can see exactly how much throttle and brake you're giving. When driving in cockpit, this information is gone. Why? Can this not be part of the custom HUD elements that we can drag wherever we want on screen? 

 

ERS

This has been another point of controversy ever since it's been added. The system we have now works, but it is not realistic and requires WAY too much micro-managing. To maximize your lap times, you really need to be adjusting your ERS on the majority of corners, particularly low-speed. Some find this fun and it is rewarding once you get it figured out, but as Lando Norris said in one of his youtube videos, it's simply not realistic. I can totally understand the difficulty in trying to replicate this system, as it's likely that every team has a different mapping for each track, but there has to be a way to make this easier to manage in a race scenario. I think we definitely need to have an overtake/push to pass button for maximum deployment (similar power to setting 4 - overtake in the MFD) and we should be able to cycle between two modes (they could be called deploy and harvest). Then, it would just be matter of selecting harvest through slow sections and before big braking zones and then using deploy through high-speed corners and straights. Obviously the system would need to be a lot more fine-tuned than this, but I think that would be a better direction to go than what we currently have.

 

To conclude

While this post may just seem like I'm sh*tting on the F1 games, I assure you, it's coming from a place of love. I see so much potential in these games and I just find they're lacking in very basic elements. I haven't touched on physics as that is something Codemasters has done quite well. They've found a really good balance between simulator and arcade. F1 cars are incredibly hard to drive and the physics are realistic enough that you are punished for your mistakes, but the cars are totally drive-able. If anyone has tried the McLaren in iRacing, you'll understand where I'm coming from. That car is an absolute chore to drive and I don't find it fun at all. Codemasters have found the sweet spot where it comes to realism and driveability, giving you a fairly fun F1 experience. It is by no means perfect, but I think that with a great team of developers these games can be turned into masterpieces. Spend less time on the stupid DLC packs and the gimmicky stuff that nobody cares about and invest more on what matters the most, the driving experience.

This. Exactly this.

I think there are four of us in here (Including myself and Illicit) who raced in the same league together recently. Everything he's said here is, on top of some residual teeth-grinding bugs, why F1 and ONLY F1 has lost nearly all its popularity with us. And it's not like this is limited to just multiplayer either. I'm playing career mode right now and I can assure you this would make the experience better tenfold.

Also, as a beta tester for the last two games, I want to point out that nothing has frustrated me more than seeing some people on the forums here attack us for quote on quote "letting Codemasters release such an unfinished game". I will admit that I wasn't as active as I could have been this past year due to personal reasons, however that doesn't in the slightest justify what they said against any of the work other beta testers were able to do. I'm going to leave it at that. Figure out what I mean.

To go back to Illicit's post I'm not expecting 2020 to even make some kind of progress in this direction - if the release schedule is anything like 2019's, it's too late into the development cycle for this to happen. I would however like to see 2021 make some strides towards this. As Marcel said, it would be the base of a perfect game if they can get this right.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/9/2020 at 9:02 PM, AlexTT said:

A RACING game is supposed to be about driving a car right? So the core focus should be dialed in for wheel users,

It should be dialled in for the majority of people who buy it, and that's not wheel users I'm afraid.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, scottishwildcat said:

It should be dialled in for the majority of people who buy it, and that's not wheel users I'm afraid.

If the game meant to be pure arcade its ok but if they want something little bit serious u have to forgot on pads. In these days can buy decent wheel almost everyone

Edited by Neomo
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×