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DIRT RALLY - WHAT NEEDS TO CHANGE

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Let me start by applauding Codemasters in their attempt to make a bone-fide rally sim for the purists.  I am really impressed with this title in terms of its physics, sounds and graphics.
Defauly FFB is a letdown but it is early access.  I had to use a 3rd parry ffb file which has transformed the game for me so this is something CM should look into. 
But if Codemasters really (no I mean really) want to make Dirt Rally look and feel like a sim as well as drive like one, I feel some changes are needed.

Some bad habits have been carried over from titles such as Dirt 3 and for a sim, these need to go.  I have taken a lot of time to make notes and compile them here so I hope someone is out there listening and really wants to make Dirt Rally into something it has the potential of being, which is the best damn rally sim since RBR (and likely better than even that.).

There are some arcade style features in Dirt Rally which are just not good.  The replays are the worst. I mean it's boring and dire and needs to be re-done. I will explain more later.
The graphics from in-cockpit are amazing, especially water splashes (are their mud splashes?).  CM have done some seriously good work on this title (the sounds are amazing) and I hope they don't spoil it by leaving it essentially as it it.

So lets start with the replays.  Ok so this is not a driving aspect of the game, so technically doesn't change how much a sim the game is to drive.  But after a sim-like drive, the last thing I want is an arcade-style replay.  This replay should either be consigned to the bin or kept as a sort of "Director cam" option when cycling through the replay cameras.
The replay as it stands is so boring I cannot bear to watch.  Those great graphics and sounds are being wasted on long distance helicopter shots which last too long, Go-Pro style exterior cam shots which are dull and interior shots which still has the pace notes being read out for some bizarre reason.  Really don't need to be instructed by a co-pilot during a replay.
At present 90% of the replay can be thrown away as unexciting and undramatic.  The other 10% is as it should be.   Proper believable ground based track-side cameras.  Not seemingly floating cams or ones that impossibly follow the car. 
The entire replay should simply consist of track-side TV cameras from believable positions.  See Assetto Corsa for an example of this. RBR does it pretty well too.
So I would say either consign the current replay method to a director mode and add another replay cam option to be just track-side TV cameras or ditch the current one altogether and replace it with track-side TV cameras. 
Not only do I like to watch my replay but I want to be able to choose which camera I watch it from and not have the game chop and change from interior to exterior then long time helicopter/drone shots from too far away.
Think of the amazing replays that will pop up on YouTube. !   Please CM, do something about this.

Ok onto my other points, some of which are replay related. .....

1) Replays:  Sometimes the amount of dirt kicked up from behind a car is a little overdone and I know you can get this in the real world where you can't see the car for the dust, it just seems there may be a little too much of it.   Not a big deal, but an observation nonetheless.

2) Replays: Going back to what I said above regarding the not so good 'Director style' current replay system we have...  Helicopter shots are too far away (not zoomed in enough) and last for a bit too long.   Also the Go-Pro type on-board exterior shots are too numerous and they do not excite.

3)
If you choose Auto or Semi-auto gearbox then sometimes the reverse gear does not work when you double-depress the brake pedal.  Reverse gear should never be on the pedal anyway. Especially not in semi-auto mode where a further downshift from neutral on the wheel should engage it.

4) Replays: Do not need to hear pace notes in replays. They are only heard on occasion anyway and really aren't needed in a replay.

5) Replays: Assuming CM can and do change their replay system to track-side tv cams only, it would be great to have a feature to save your replays.

6) Replays: Steering wheel control in replays is a bad idea.  If my steering wheel is 1 cm off centre during a replay then it's going either in reverse or has sped up.  Would be much better with h keyboard control or provide that as option instead of wheel control in replays.  

7) Asking for button 1,2,3,4,5 etc...  That needs to change as you have to work out and remember what button 3, 2, 5 etc are.  Please, for PC users with wheels, again let us have keys to control these things

8) As a continuation of point 7, can we please have mouse support in the GUI / menus ??  Cheers.

9) Facility to allow for seat positioning (fwd/back/up/down) in-car as cockpit position sometimes is not ideal and too car away.

10) In the GUI when we select which rally stage we want to do (stage information), we should be able to see the length of the stage (miles/km) and our current best time there.

11) Auto vehicle recovery.  This 'feature' should be removed altogether and it should be totally manual (like RBR).  We have a button to recover the vehicle and it should depend on that only. If a cheat (cut corner) is detected then just add 5s or whatever to the stage time.
Adding 15s for a vehicle recovery is unrealistic and annoying when the game auto recovers the car and gives you the penalty when you could have recovered it yourself in less time and saved the penalty. By going off the road you are already incurring a time penalty anyway !

12) Do not need a 10s countdown to recover vehicle. Unrealistic. Then you STILL incur a 15s penalty !  Sometimes you can and want to recover yourself and should not be counted down. Again this recovery procedure should be manual and at the users discretion.  The vehicle should only recover when the users presses the button to do so.

13) Like the brake pedal acting as a reverse being intermittent (point 3), this may also be a bug.  Recover vehicle button doesn’t always work. Have to go to pause menu and do it from there.

14) For us PC users who are used to this sort of thing it most of our other sims, the ability to press 'Esc' during a rally stage would be handy (same as button on wheel for pause menu). Fiddling for it on the wheel can, on the rare occasion, have undesirable consequences.

15) Windscreen wipers are currently totally automatic.  Hmmm.  Can we please have an option for automatic (as it is now) and manual on/off ?  I see them coming on a lot for no apparent reason atm.

16) In-car steering wheel should properly mimic users steering wheel both in movement and any shakes.  The fake shakes are off-putting and unrealistic.  The car steering wheel seems to have a very limited turning ability and does not match what the users wheel is doing.   An option to make the steering wheel invisible would be good to as this is a much requested feature.

17) In the Custom Setup screen, in the Details section, where it asks you location, stages, results type, ai difficulty, it should remember the last user settings and not keep going back to default every time.


This is all I can remember for the moment.  I know a lot of it is replay-centric but I really feel this part of the game lets it down right now.  I can just see the potential this has and if CM are dedicated into making this a full blooded sim then they are going in the right direction and I can see it's potential and don't want it to be let down with stuff that nay-sayers can just pick it apart on.  Please give us some nice replays so I can watch/record them too. :smile: 

I can only wish CM the best of luck and admire that they are out to set the record straight that CM can produce a proper sim.  I want Dirt Rally to come out with a bang !



 














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Jeez, didn't mean to disturb the balance of the Force here.
Well sorry I didn't have time to read the forum in it's entirity for every single point on my post.

I am truly sorry that your eyes have had to bear the trauma of repeated points.  That must have been awful for you.

Still nice responses for my first ever post.  It's so nice to feel welcomed after trying to contribute something.
I'll take note not to bother in future.  Happy Rallying.

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Relax @RacingRenders if you think @zawal is giving you a hard time wait until you have a run in with the RBR boys :p

The thread for your feedback is located here : http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/5760/dirt-rally-feedback-list#latest

Stick around, read some threads, get a proper feel for the place. And, most importantly, welcome to the forum

:)



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I didn't consider it a hard time and zawal was the least rude reply of them all tbh.

Am I to copy my post to the feedback then or can you move it for me ?

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There were only 3 comments before you replied (unless someone deleted their comments before I posted). @Zawal's, @Rallycameraman's and mine.

I can cut n paste it if you want, but it's probably better if you do it, because that way, it'll have your name on it and not mine. It is your feedback after all. FWIW, I think you have some good ideas (the replay cam being affected by controller steering input for starters).


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I agree completely on OP's remarks on replays. When I manage to do that dream drive, the perfect stage, I want to look at the result so that it looks good, fast and most importantly, like rally footage. (And please add the ability to save replays).

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Jeez, didn't mean to disturb the balance of the Force here.
Well sorry I didn't have time to read the forum in it's entirity for every single point on my post.

I am truly sorry that your eyes have had to bear the trauma of repeated points.  That must have been awful for you.

Still nice responses for my first ever post.  It's so nice to feel welcomed after trying to contribute something.
I'll take note not to bother in future.  Happy Rallying.
Its not that your single post is such a burden on this forum that we can't ignore it, its that a LOT of peoples reposts clutter the place up, especially considering the influx of new users that come in to say one thing and then leave. It gets old for everyone.

You have some good points, but it seems like you're really just picking a bone with the replay system and pointing out a few bugs, not saying what needs to happen for it to be a proper Sim.

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I agree with most RacingRenders wrote. I said "most" because some of it may be simply off target for CM, and I doubt they are aiming suddenly into something that's so far from their actual view.

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Maybe that's because I'm happy with the rest so far.
Yeah, I understand that, but it's not "WHAT NEEDS TO CHANGE" to get it to a viable sim racer. I can assure you that just about every racer here would settle for better physics and ffb even if it meant the replays were just cameras pointed at the sun. You said "look and feel and drive like a sim" but all you're really worried about is having replays look like a TV set.

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Well you can see it that way but not all my points were about the replays.  The physics and particularly the ffb does need to change, although the physics are not that bad right now, they just need a but more of a loose back end and better support for analogue handbrake.

The ffb goes without saying though doesn't it ?  And it's got to be the most mentioned subject on here I would imagine.
The replays are a mess though and stood out for me so, yes, I thnk that 'needs to change'. 
The subject of my post wasn't "what needs to change to make it more of a purist sim".  I am more than away that replays don't affect the sim-ness.  But what a damned waste it would be to see a great sim develop only to be bored to death watching back your fastest stage times from a go-pro strapped to a wing.

So, no, that is not ALL I'm 'worried' about but it is all I mentioned in that post.

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video making in games is very popular now. everyone literally does it yet the playback system isn't the greatest as you pointed out.

what view needs adding for this is a side on close camera that follows it whole race. also a free cam. this would make making videos so much better.

cars should be just unlocked also. not upgraded.i find it annoying on some stages in certain rallies that you cant gain time on sections in a stock car. regardless of how you drive. yet upgraded you can.

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Its really bugging me that the replay keeps swapping back to onboard from trackside. I just freaking drove the whole thing looking at it from an on board POV. Why would I want to re watch parts of it from a similar on board point of view. Trackside all the way please. It feel like they watched a lot of WRC where it goes from trackside to onboard because there isnt enough cameras to cover the whole stage obviously. In the game, we shouldnt have that problem.

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del13r said:
Its really bugging me that the replay keeps swapping back to onboard from trackside. I just freaking drove the whole thing looking at it from an on board POV. Why would I want to re watch parts of it from a similar on board point of view. Trackside all the way please. It feel like they watched a lot of WRC where it goes from trackside to onboard because there isnt enough cameras to cover the whole stage obviously. In the game, we shouldnt have that problem.
Why did you dig this up when you said the same thing in the "dirt rally replay" tread?

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First of all, this game is a masterpiece. IGN under rated this game with a score of 8.9.

Second I appreciate how much they put into the actual driving experience. Replays are an after thought when it comes to creating an accurate simulator (in my opinion). I also think the time penalty for vehicle recover is CORRECT (in my opinion). This requires drivers to be as cautious as possible to go for a flawless run.

The only add-ons that I think would enrich the gaming experience are: 

1. When you roll the vehicle and the driver crosses his arms, have him uncross his arms as soon as the car becomes (near) upright or as the driver begins to steer again. 

2. Light vs heavy snow splashes, if you hit a big drift it should leave some residue that the driver should have to activate the wipers to remove. Light snow splash should just blow away with the wind but take a few seconds giving the driver the option to wait for it to blow away or immediately wipe it away. 

3. The co-driver should have some reactions/words to say about crashes (i.e., AHHHHH! Are you okay? What was that? HOLY CRAP!). I personally would find this hilarious* 

Codemasters rock, keep the awesome sims coming! 


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