Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  

Why should anyone buy this knowing CM track record?

Recommended Posts

Why should anyone buy this knowing CodeMasters' track record of dropping support for all past games whenever they feel like it? Dirt Rally and Dirt 4 have no support anymore, leaderboards, competitive, dailies, etc.

How long until this loses support too?

  • Disagree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean, what "support" do you expect for DR1 at this point or even D4? You won't be getting updates to those games, the final chapter closed on them a long time ago and the resources will be focused on future content or supporting the current title.

If you wait years before buying the game, don't be surprised when you show up that it has little to no ongoing support. 

DR2 is sunsetting "major" support to the title barring any serious issues that get introduced with the McRae Flatout pack in a few weeks. They've supported it with tons of DLC and patches; we are coming up on the 14th patch since launch - that seems like support to me. But what more do you expect from here? We received double the original stage count. DR2 was designed to work on the old, dying consoles of last generation. Those consoles already held back the engine. Why keep supporting them heavily when CM could put resources into the new engines they are building for the next-gen consoles.

 

And you act like the CM turned off the servers for DR1 and D4. They didn't Dailies and MP events can still be done on them. If you expect them to go clean up leaderboards that are 7 years old though... you're never going to see that. It's a waste of time and resources.

  • Like 2
  • Agree 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, rodikas said:

Why should anyone buy this knowing CodeMasters' track record of dropping support for all past games whenever they feel like it? Dirt Rally and Dirt 4 have no support anymore, leaderboards, competitive, dailies, etc.

How long until this loses support too?

It's a good job you wasn't a gamer in the 80's and 90's. A game came out and that was it. You'd have hated it mate

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
  • Agree 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Mike Dee said:

Why keep supporting them heavily when CM could put resources into the new engines they are building for the next-gen consoles.

Don't wanna be offensive, but are you sure we get a proper "next-gen"-engine with the next entry in the series?
Would be really cool, but I'm not so sure about that.
Building a complete new engine is probably very expensive and time-consuming.

I just imagine proper full rally stages...aaah, a dream.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DozUK said:

It's a good job you wasn't a gamer in the 80's and 90's. A game came out and that was it. You'd have hated it mate

I mean, it was like that all the way up until the mid-00s with the release of PS3 and Xbox360.

and yeah, it's still possible to get online matches in Dirt 3, and not just on Steam. and that's a 10 year old game.

  • Haha 1
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, UnderclassGDfan said:

Don't wanna be offensive, but are you sure we get a proper "next-gen"-engine with the next entry in the series?

No, I'm not sure at all and I'm guessing based off of the recent CodeMasters landscape changes. They just acquired a new studio that brought on new resources and tons of new knowledge. We've known since DR1 that the current engine has been a giant thorn in their side and is one of the limiting factors for stage lengths.

The next game will have at the least an overhauled EGO engine. Maybe not a full rewrite, but a heavily modified and updated one.
They have SMS now and the the super fine details that came with the studio for tire models and circuit knowledge. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Mike Dee said:

The next game will have at the least an overhauled EGO engine. Maybe not a full rewrite, but a heavily modified and updated one.
They have SMS now and the the super fine details that came with the studio for tire models and circuit knowledge. 

I'm probably the only one, but I am absolutely NOT hyped about the aquisition of SMS.
Their games are garbage in my point of view.

I played Need for Speed: Shift, Shift 2: Unleashed, Test Drive: Ferrari Racing Legends and Project CARS from this studio and all of them were horrible to control. The last one wasn't really playable with a standard xbox one controller.

Yes, the game is made for wheel and pedals. But I'm a console player. I expect good playability, if a game releases for a console wich have a pad as standard controls. Codemasters made it work perfectly.

Can't comment on Project CARS 2, because I refused to buy it. Sadly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, UnderclassGDfan said:

Project CARS 2

Pcars 2 solved a lot of problems from the first one, but did still have issues in places. Much like any game to be fair. Ive always been hypercritical of SMS, given their history in sim racing. They was originally part of/worked with Simbin on the GTR games, as well as GT legends, so they already had major teeth in the sim racing world. Need for Speed shift, given how EA is (especially now); probably interfared a lot with the creation of those shift games. As for Pcars 1, it was at its core ok. Just tons of issues and an absolutly daft amount of options for force feedback. Most of which had been solved in Pcars 2. Their VR implentation in that Madness engine is nothing to laugh at though, its top notch. In Pcars 1 and Pcars 2!

 

41 minutes ago, UnderclassGDfan said:

wasn't really playable with a standard xbox one controller.

Yes, the game is made for wheel and pedals. But I'm a console player. I expect good playability, if a game releases for a console wich have a pad as standard controls. Codemasters made it work perfectly.

Codemasters, out of the tons of racing game devs out there, know the importance of good gamepad controls. They have been doing this for so long now, I would be surprised if they would shoot themselves in the foot by ruining that aspect. If they use the Madness engine, which I assume they now own having bought out SMS. Then I would expect the gamepad controls to be a major focus for them.

I personally am very interested to see what SMS can do with Codemasters at the helm. I also hope that more codemaster titles will feature VR support now also, since they have a dev team under them who have proven to be highly competant in that regard.

 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Ialyrn said:

Their VR implentation in that Madness engine is nothing to laugh at though, its top notch. In Pcars 1 and Pcars 2!

Yeah, maybe, but I am 0% interested in VR at the moment.
Too expensive and the development of the tech is still meh.
I wait at least another 5-10 years before I waste money on that.

I'm on X-Box anyway, so no VR option now and in the forthcoming future.

11 minutes ago, Ialyrn said:

Codemasters, out of the tons of racing game devs out there, know the importance of good gamepad controls. They have been doing this for so long now, I would be surprised if they would shoot themselves in the foot by ruining that aspect. If they use the Madness engine, which I assume they now own having bought out SMS. Then I would expect the gamepad controls to be a major focus for them.

It's just my fears, you know. It's not like I know they will ruin it, but my experience with that developer was just this bad.
And I made the mistake multiple times buying a game from them and hoping for the better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 3/10/2020 at 4:44 PM, Mike Dee said:

I mean, what "support" do you expect for DR1 at this point or even D4? You won't be getting updates to those games, the final chapter closed on them a long time ago and the resources will be focused on future content or supporting the current title.

Nobody expects updates to old games, they just expect large sections of them to remain working. It took about two decades for many, much older games, to lose their master servers... and a single MS address is usually easy enough for the community to replace themselves (e.g. BF1942, RvS). And many of those older games still have their old official master server running. None of this always-online and/or DRM nonsense with the servers being shut down in a couple years when the developers churn out their sloppy sequels with money-grubbing DLC galore.

If you're going to make a game and run your own servers for large sections of the games to work, you should at least keep them working while people still play your games instead of pulling support in hopes that they put up with your bullspit and buy your DLC-riddled console kid game for immature fanboys who always get triggered like a little spoiled brat being denied candy at the checkout counter when someone brings up valid criticism.

 

11 hours ago, DozUK said:

It's a good job you wasn't a gamer in the 80's and 90's. A game came out and that was it. You'd have hated it mate

It's a "good job you wasn't" an English professor.

Games released in the 80's and 90's aren't missing large sections of them, broken by always-online idiocy losing support or servers required to access certain features being shut down. I'm really not surprised the CM community is a bunch of blind immature zealot fanboys. For someone pretending to have played games back then, you sure have a lot of growing up to do yet.

 

9 hours ago, ianism said:

I mean, it was like that all the way up until the mid-00s with the release of PS3 and Xbox360.

and yeah, it's still possible to get online matches in Dirt 3, and not just on Steam. and that's a 10 year old game.

Yeah, it's crazy how many much older games have less missing features compared to games released just a couple years ago... and the corporate fanboys and their programmed groupthink always come like clockwork to white knight a company that doesn't even care about them. The only reason that D3 still has support is because the dumbasses at Ch0deM4sters didn't run their own servers for large sections of the game to keep working.

Edited by xomamo
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, xomamo said:

Yeah, it's crazy how many much older games have less missing features compared to games released just a couple years ago... and the corporate fanboys and their programmed groupthink always come like clockwork to white knight a company that doesn't even care about them. The only reason that D3 still has support is because the dumbasses at Ch0deM4sters didn't run their own servers for large sections of the game to keep working.

yah I really miss the first racing games i ever played, NFS II and NFS III. they had tournament & knockout (one of each), single race, split screen and LAN and/or online play! oh and have fun trying to get them to run on anything more recent than Windows XP, not to mention getting online races going. they had 15-20 cars and ~8km of roads and like 2-3 difficulty levels. who wants a career mode, car tuning, decent physics, damage models, stage degradation, hundreds of km of roads, dozens of cars, etc?

you ever play a text-based game? I think we should go back to those. it's like reading a book, except to get to the next paragraph you use trial and error instead of... your eyes. it's a highly efficient way to spend your time, and clearly the work of auteur developers, so you gotta support.

and companies 20 years ago weren't better than they are now, you were just younger and unaware of all the nasty stuff they got up to because you were less world-weary and we didn't have youtube to overanalyze the everliving **** out of everything. you ever play GTA San Andreas? it ran (and looked) like trash whenever it rained [in the game, though it'd be funny if it could sense when it was raining for real wherever you were] yet somehow it still managed to sell a hilarious number of copies. because people didn't care about that kind of stuff back then. dear god humans are terrible at remembering what things were actually like in the past (much less times/places in which they never lived).

corporate fanboys? preprogrammed groupthink? always come like clockwork? [phrasing, haha] who are you, Alex Jones' third-favourite stepchild? white knight isn't a verb, professor. and you shouldn't add "yet" to the phrase "have a lot of growing up to do" because the meaning is already implied, professor. and English professors don't study grammar, professor, they study literature: so - haakchewaly - a grammarian is what you're after.

but wait! 2 accounts with minimal numbers of posts that joined this forum today? all of them talking about long-term support? did you just make a 2nd account to make it look like someone is agreeing with you? no? well then, you two absolutely must be ....... (searching for minimally plausible thing) ...... bigben employees trying to stoke fear in the hearts of their bitterest-est (it's like bitter, but double extra!!!) rivals. but keep going, because there's nothing I love more in an attempted troll than when they start getting stomped in arguments and react by insulting others instead of engaging in "valid criticism":

"If you're going to make a game and run your own servers for large sections of the games to work, you should at least keep them working while people still play your games instead of pulling support in hopes that they put up with your bullspit and buy your DLC-riddled console kid game for immature fanboys who always get triggered"

and no, this is not valid (much less constructive) criticism, you hypocritical Aye-aye. (sorry, was just watching a nature documentary series set in Madagascar)

Edited by ianism
  • Like 1
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, xomamo said:

Nobody expects updates to old games, they just expect large sections of them to remain working. It took about two decades for many, much older games, to lose their master servers... and a single MS address is usually easy enough for the community to replace themselves (e.g. BF1942, RvS). And many of those older games still have their old official master server running. None of this always-online and/or DRM nonsense with the servers being shut down in a couple years when the developers churn out their sloppy sequels with money-grubbing DLC galore.

If you're going to make a game and run your own servers for large sections of the games to work, you should at least keep them working while people still play your games instead of pulling support in hopes that they put up with your bullspit and buy your DLC-riddled console kid game for immature fanboys who always get triggered like a little spoiled brat being denied candy at the checkout counter when someone brings up valid criticism.

And CodeMasters has done literally none of what you say here.

What are you even complaining about? DR1 and D4 servers are still up and working. What is your point? You have zero valid criticisms so far, you're just making a strawman argument about something that hasn't happened, then complain and act like it proves your point. Also, learn to use punctuation. Your entire second paragraph is one incoherent, rambling, run-on sentence.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, xomamo said:

Yeah, it's crazy how many much older games have less missing features compared to games released just a couple years ago... and the corporate fanboys and their programmed groupthink always come like clockwork to white knight a company that doesn't even care about them. The only reason that D3 still has support is because the dumbasses at Ch0deM4sters didn't run their own servers for large sections of the game to keep working.

You are calling out a company that spent over a year removing "games for windows live" from Dirt 3, a full 4 years after the games initial release; and calling them names?

Dirt Rally 1 was built up with them listening to consumer feedback during the early access phase of its development, including completely overhauling the way force feedback worked. To the point of even adding VR into the title.

They even added VR into Dirt Rally 2.0 for the PC, after fans of the game who use VR made it very clear it was a highly wanted feature.

Sure, they have hit a few bumps in the road here an there along the way. They have certainly done things with DLC in DR2.0 that I dont exactly agree with (selling back tracks from DR1 to us as the only example, but they did do work on them to make them fit with DR2.0's track degradation system, so swings and roundabouts), and still havnt resolved all the issues with DR2.0 (Colour banding on the Oculus rift, which makes it impossible to play a night stage at all if you have destroyed your lights). But they are certainly no EA or Activision.

Dirt Rally 1 is stull fully fuctional online, so is Dirt 4. As far as I know, even the older Grid and Dirt games are. Least on PC, and I assume on console too.

12 hours ago, xomamo said:

None of this always-online and/or DRM nonsense with the servers being shut down in a couple years when the developers churn out their sloppy sequels with money-grubbing DLC galore.

If you want someone to blame for all this online DRM bs, blame the people who cheated the games online multipler and leaderboards. Blame the ones who refused to pay for games and only pirated them. Because they are the biggest reason why games devs and publishers have gone the way they have, why they are becoming always online. Pirating has been so rampant in gaming since the 80's, that they have been forced time and time again to come up with anyway to protect their investment. And given how much work it takes to make a video game (or any peice of software), they have every right to do so. Even if we hate it. Its a case of others ruining it for the rest of us. I hate all this always online rubbish too, but I fully understand why they do it; and why they invest so heavily in DRM measures.

And as for DLC, that has been a thing for decades. Long before the internet was a thing. You could get new levels, and even game patches. Especially for systems that used floppy disk drives, and even on CD-Rom when that tech was added. They used to be included in monthly video game magazines. You could even buy full on expansion packs. Notable games from the 90's where Duke Nukem 3d, Quake 2. Notable games from the 80's that offered expansion packs, are Dragon Slayer and Xanadu. The list is actually more extensive than that, but I wont be listing them all here. Even Sonic and Knuckles was an expansion pack on the Sega Mega Drive, as well as a stand alone title. Sega came up with the idea after been forced to split Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles into 2 seperate titles, due to the cost of the cartridge that would be needed if they didnt. Some older games also got re-released as "gold"  or "GOTY" editions as well (just like some do today), which added new content as well as patched bugs that had been found after release. Which shows how little you clearly know about gaming history where add on content, and even game patches are concered. So "money-grubbing DLC galore" has been going on in gaming since the 80's. Its nothing new at all, its not a modern concept in gaming; the internet just made it more accesable and profitable.

12 hours ago, xomamo said:

Games released in the 80's and 90's aren't missing large sections of them, broken by always-online idiocy losing support or servers required to access certain features being shut down. I'm really not surprised the CM community is a bunch of blind immature zealot fanboys. For someone pretending to have played games back then, you sure have a lot of growing up to do yet.

This information comes curtasy from someone who grew up with gaming in the 80's and 90's, no pretending from me. My first gaming system/computer was an Amstrad CPC 464 using Amstrad basic and cassatte tapes. I grew up using BBC Micro's in School, and then the Macintosh Classic and Classic ii. Using Amiga's, NES and Master system's. The ZX Spectrum, ive used pretty much every major home computer and games console going at some point in my life. Using the earliest versions of Windows. Ive grown up around gaming and tech, and I have seen its ups and downs over the years.

As said above, I hate the always online bs too, and that games often lose features because of it. But that is the realm of gaming as it stands today, and I fully understand the devs and publishers needs to protect the products they have invested countless hours into. If you dont like it, all you can do is vote with your purse and not buy the games that use the things you dont like.

18 hours ago, UnderclassGDfan said:

Yeah, maybe, but I am 0% interested in VR at the moment.
Too expensive and the development of the tech is still meh.
I wait at least another 5-10 years before I waste money on that.

I'm on X-Box anyway, so no VR option now and in the forthcoming future. 

You may not be interested in VR, and thats fair. You may not be on a platform that offers it as an option. But the VR market is growing, and it is not as expensive at this point as it was. Oculus Quest for example, is full standlone VR that is resonably close to the same level as PC VR, and also offers Oculus Link; which means it can be used for PC VR now as well. The landscape around VR is beginning to pick up speed and evolve, its getting into more and more customers hands now. So it is something all racing and flight/space game devs should look towards at this point. As said above, with Codemasters now owning Slightly Mad Studios. They should now have access to a game engine that has a robust VR implentation for racing games. Perhaps even the best implementation of VR in racing games at this moment in time. There is absolutly no reason that games they produce after 2021 and onwards, should not be using VR for both OculusSDK and SteamVR. The Madness Engine works with both in Pcars 1 and 2 on steam. Codemasters biggest issue with adding VR, as mostly reported in the gaming media, agaisnt adding VR support for F1 as an example. Was apperently due in large to game engine time of development for VR to be added. That should no longer be a factor at all with the Madness engine. If they happen to use it.

As for the tech, there is actually a lot of rubbish out there. People adament you need the highest end system possible (which you dont unless you are trying to run everything maxed out), that you have to use X amount of supersampling to make the picture better (in my personal experiance, you dont. It just wastes resources and often forces on ASW which halves the framerate). That even the screen door effect is really bad. There is a lot of misinformation out there about VR, but so long as you stick with Oculus or HTC Vive (avoid the Vive Comos at this time though), or can afford to drop money into a Valve index on the PCVR side of things. There really arnt as many issues as people like to make out there is. The tech is young, I will agree with you on that aspect. But I will encourage anyone to try it, if they can. Proper PCVR, and even the Oculus Quest; are the only options worth investing into right now.

 

  • Like 2
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Mike Dee said:

No, I'm not sure at all and I'm guessing based off of the recent CodeMasters landscape changes. They just acquired a new studio that brought on new resources and tons of new knowledge. We've known since DR1 that the current engine has been a giant thorn in their side and is one of the limiting factors for stage lengths.

The next game will have at the least an overhauled EGO engine. Maybe not a full rewrite, but a heavily modified and updated one.
They have SMS now and the the super fine details that came with the studio for tire models and circuit knowledge. 

I doubt there would be almost any additional resources, as SMS will most likely do their own thing. It's quite rare to see Codemasters acquire existing studios, so we don't really know (as Evo was only brought back to life)

Engines are always problematic, but the amazing thing with them is that they can be modified to fit their needs, such as with the Guildford's Operation Flashpoint series, which introduced the huge 200 square kilometre map, lua scripting and loads of new engine tools for example.

I'm thinking the same about the next game having an overhauled EGO engine, but I wouldn't bet on it being ready for at least many months 🙂 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×