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Mechanical failure

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Well, maybe I'm a saddo, but from Geoff Crammonds F1 GP, right through many sims up to today, I more often then not play full distance, full career, and yes, I am 'happy' if I break down on the last lap and lose the championship. Actually I am cursing and swearing, and not at all happy, but that's what makes a race sim MORE of a race sim for me - the highs and lows, having to come back from a DNF that wasn't my fault, getting a lucky break when other drivers retire, or even losing the championship on the last lap.

It's about time this option was included, and they should stop making excuses for not including it. It could be a slider so you can choose the likelihood of a failure depending on the car you are driving, but could also be based on your car development or the combined state of fitted components, or manner of driving, as well as the random element.

Come on Codies, it really is time you stopped overlooking this.

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I play 100% races, season after season, career after career, and.. well, I can sort of understand the frustration-response. I think I'd be very frustrated and upset if I lost the championship at the last moment due to mechanical trouble, but.. well, two buts:

1) Said frustration would not be with the game, but with my poor luck.

2) There is a flip-side, where if I become champion because my competition experiences mechanical failures that I do not, it just ends up feeling like a cheap win

Frustration is (easily, and unsurprisingly) explained as a bad thing, but the best games are ones that make you feel it all, not just the good things, like how a well-written character in a story can really get under your skin while the bland one just leaves you unaffected. This is about emotion that's supposed to be there, a negative sensation that you experience because you're invested, instead of a championship that feels hollow because the opposition was handicapped.

Leave the option turned off by default to protect people that just want their painless race, sure, but perhaps see fit to allow others to enhance their experience and emotional investment?

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This can't be a difficult thing to add really either, the random mechanic must already be half coded due to the AI having retirements.

In future titles they could expand it to include an option when upgrading the car as to whether you want to the part to be reliable or fast. This would then affect a general reliability rating of the car that would factor into your chance of mechanical failure in a race. You can go super conservative and try to play the long game with a car maybe not as quick or go full experimental with the risk if breaking down in each race (McLaren 2004/5?)

Obviously mechanical failures are much rarer these days in real life for the chasis but it's still a factor. Another area to expand is half-failed parts similar to how they have now for DRS. Random brake failures that reduce their effectiveness by 20% lets say would be cool or ERS failures that reduce engine power. They're both things that happen in real life. This should also feed into a wider damage system that has things like floor and diffuser damage.

Edited by SASColfer
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1 hour ago, Morsify said:

Well, maybe I'm a saddo, but from Geoff Crammonds F1 GP, right through many sims up to today, I more often then not play full distance, full career, and yes, I am 'happy' if I break down on the last lap and lose the championship. Actually I am cursing and swearing, and not at all happy, but that's what makes a race sim MORE of a race sim for me - the highs and lows, having to come back from a DNF that wasn't my fault, getting a lucky break when other drivers retire, or even losing the championship on the last lap.

It's about time this option was included, and they should stop making excuses for not including it. It could be a slider so you can choose the likelihood of a failure depending on the car you are driving, but could also be based on your car development or the combined state of fitted components, or manner of driving, as well as the random element.

Come on Codies, it really is time you stopped overlooking this.

I wish I could get that sort of satisfaction out of games but you probably have much time to game? And yes from a sim perspective I understand you but doesn't it just feel like Russian roulette instead of your team not getting the car right?

That's why I think it will be in the game this year because it has a purpose that makes sense to all players, sim and arcade. Investing in reliability makes the frustration go away :classic_biggrin:

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Reliability is an inherent part of F1, in My Team mode getting a car that is both fast and reliable should reflect the very compromise that teams face. Nigel Mansell probably would have had 4 titles if he had reliable cars under him.

But I agree it should be an optional thing in Career mode. I am a pretty casual player and I found the most frustrating thing for me is that when driving with full assists and it rains, I was suddenly way slower. So I started bailing on races where it was going to rain or dialing down the AI to start. Both left me feeling frustrated and most players walk away from games that frustrate them.

But the occassional DNF is good for the soul, you appreciate the wins more.

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58 minutes ago, BelgiumDude said:

I wish I could get that sort of satisfaction out of games but you probably have much time to game? And yes from a sim perspective I understand you but doesn't it just feel like Russian roulette instead of your team not getting the car right?

That's why I think it will be in the game this year because it has a purpose that makes sense to all players, sim and arcade. Investing in reliability makes the frustration go away :classic_biggrin:

It's not that I have a lot of time to game, I just have to do mid race saves if I am short of time. 

Yes, there is a danger it can feel like Russian Roulette, that's a fair point, but if it's done right, it can feel like the development of the car / the way you drive / your choice of components, can actually be meaningful to the state of your car, so if you had an engine failure, it might not actually be a complete surprise, instead it would be more like a gamble that you took when preparing for the race, or when you're pushing too hard towards the end of the race.

But always, it should be an option that is switchable, so it can be used or not, depending on the player's preference.

Edited by Morsify
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29 minutes ago, Aef251 said:

But the occasional DNF is good for the soul, you appreciate the wins more.

Yes, so it's not just mechanical failures that make you feel 'frustrated'. The other day, I did a stupid spin on lap 3 in Hungary, and lost a wheel. Race over, completely needless, and completely my own fault. And the car felt good enough to get me into the points. I was furious. But I didn't press the restart button (I'm not saying I always manage to stop myself though LOL).

So it's on to Belgium and now I need to do even better to make up for lost points. It makes the whole career more believable and meaningful to me.

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The main problem for me at the minute is the fact that ai can get them and I can't. I've been in a really good championship battle with another driver throughout the first half of the season and then they get 2 back to back dnf's and the battle is ruined and it feels such a hollow victory. I've also had this disappointment in just a race where I get a great result in a car, only to realise that some of the top drivers dnf and that was probably the only reason I did as well as I did. I think we at least need the option of dnf's for the ai but ideally they should really give the option to the player on if they want dnf's as at the minute I get very little joy from the victories as it can usually be chalked up to the ai being unlucky

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33 minutes ago, Finja482 said:

The main problem for me at the minute is the fact that ai can get them and I can't. I've been in a really good championship battle with another driver throughout the first half of the season and then they get 2 back to back dnf's and the battle is ruined and it feels such a hollow victory. I've also had this disappointment in just a race where I get a great result in a car, only to realise that some of the top drivers dnf and that was probably the only reason I did as well as I did. I think we at least need the option of dnf's for the ai but ideally they should really give the option to the player on if they want dnf's as at the minute I get very little joy from the victories as it can usually be chalked up to the ai being unlucky

I've had exactly the same thing happen to me. I was battling with Leclerc at Ferrari - he got a couple of DNFs and it felt like I was being handed an advantage. It has to be optional though, so we can turn it off for the AI and/or ourselves.

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7 hours ago, BelgiumDude said:

Eu posso me relacionar com isso. Qual é a reação da maioria dos motoristas quando o motor falha? Eles ficam frustrados. As pessoas são seres estranhos, às vezes querem tanto algo e quando finalmente conseguem, é eu. O problema com falhas mecânicas nos videogames é que não é real e o jogador sabe disso. Seria aleatório e pelo que li sobre chuva no jogo neste fórum, algumas pessoas se ferrarão repetidamente. Eu li sobre a F1 2019 que algumas pessoas choveram em quase todos os circuitos. Provavelmente tive uma corrida chuvosa na primeira temporada. E se o seu motor quebrar quase todas as corridas? O Codemasters está mexendo com você por causa dos comentários desagradáveis que você fez no fórum deles?  : classic_tongue:

Mas a grande questão: você aceitaria uma falha de motor na última volta no Brasil que o fizesse perder o campeonato? Eu acho que os motoristas de verdade têm dificuldade com isso e dirão que a vida é péssima. Essa vida é o nosso videogame. Na verdade, eu não consigo imaginar alguém nesse cenário ficando empolgado e torcendo porque o motor dele explodiu e ele agora perdeu o campeonato e acha que este é o melhor jogo de todos os tempos. : classic_biggrin:

E sim, uma mudança seria legal, mas vale a quantidade de horas gastas no recurso? Como não sou codificador, não sei como é fácil implementar a aleatoriedade, mas se a chuva já está difícil de acertar, acho que falhas mecânicas são mais difíceis de simular. Então vale a pena o tempo de implementá-lo, quando talvez apenas 3% saia com isso?

Dito isso, não ficaria surpreso ao ver falhas mecânicas na F1 2020, pois ela se encaixa muito bem na narrativa do My Team.

I even understand that you don't want to or don't get so excited for Codemasters to implement random breaks in the game.  Especially if it was a complete change that there was no option.  But everyone is talking about putting options for each one to play the way they see fit.  And it is really past time to be implemented in the game.  Your argument that it is not worth the time worked on this resource sounds like an unconditional defender of the producer and can even hinder the evolution of the game.  There is no such thing as time, we pay dearly every year to play and we have to demand improvements every year, they are the ones who have to worry about the time, not us.  Don't get me wrong, but I'm saying this because comments like yours can influence the conformism of some people, thinking that it is not worth asking for improvements.  And as I said, it can hinder the game's evolution.  And even if only 3% benefit from it, remember that the game can please everyone, accessibility is very important!

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33 minutes ago, caiocrq said:

I even understand that you don't want to or don't get so excited for Codemasters to implement random breaks in the game.  Especially if it was a complete change that there was no option.  But everyone is talking about putting options for each one to play the way they see fit.  And it is really past time to be implemented in the game.  Your argument that it is not worth the time worked on this resource sounds like an unconditional defender of the producer and can even hinder the evolution of the game.  There is no such thing as time, we pay dearly every year to play and we have to demand improvements every year, they are the ones who have to worry about the time, not us.  Don't get me wrong, but I'm saying this because comments like yours can influence the conformism of some people, thinking that it is not worth asking for improvements.  And as I said, it can hinder the game's evolution.  And even if only 3% benefit from it, remember that the game can please everyone, accessibility is very important!

That's not what I said. In short so your translator doesn't mess it up :classic_biggrin: : I said I think it will be implemented this year. 

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The new system this year (for my team) may well include something. I did hear something about the option to rush new parts with potentially catastrophic results, but I cannot recall where i hear/read it.

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49 minutes ago, BelgiumDude said:

That's not what I said. In short so your translator doesn't mess it up :classic_biggrin: : I said I think it will be implemented this year. 

I apologize if I got it wrong.  But try to summarize what you said in this excerpt ...

"And yes a switch would be nice but is it worth the amount of hours spend on the feature? I'm no coder so I don't k now how easy it is to implement randomness, but if rain is already hard to get right I guess mechanical failures is harder to simulate. So is it worth the time implementing it when maybe only 3% leaves the with on?"

Edited by caiocrq
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5 hours ago, caiocrq said:

I apologize if I got it wrong.  But try to summarize what you said in this excerpt ...

"And yes a switch would be nice but is it worth the amount of hours spend on the feature? I'm no coder so I don't k now how easy it is to implement randomness, but if rain is already hard to get right I guess mechanical failures is harder to simulate. So is it worth the time implementing it when maybe only 3% leaves the with on?"

I'm explaining that it is a feature that is not that easy to implement. If you add mechanical failures it should be done right otherwise it just a worthless feature that 3% or less will use.

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