v1.13 driving physics update? [CM response: No change was made]

[Tigron 48]

In this thread I would like to find out if there was any driving physics update and how to fix it by setup.

Some people and I say yes, PC - Steam non VR physics was reworked and became the same as VR. Rear suspension was reworked. Now there is very little to no traction on rear wheels, that make cars very wobbly and unstable and very easy to spin. Breaking distance increased a lot, and you cannot break with your rear if you loose your front traction. In fact you completely loose the car as soon as you start sliding and it happens suddenly and very unpredictably.

Some people like @Ialyrn argue that there are no changes.

2 hours ago, Ialyrn said:

This really bugs me when people say this sort of stuff, assuming that anyone who can get near the top of the leaderboards must be using some form of workaround, an exterior view, or some other shady thing that just gets pulled out of thin air. It can never be just a case that some people might just be faster than you.T

The people that bugs me are the protectors of whatever developer has done. I myself work in IT and see this kitchen every day. These people does not need either your care, or protection. They will do whatever they want, and we, simple users, have to accept it or stop using the software.

Regarding to the case. Your video is in VR. And it was reported, that VR version has this physics for a long time. Some people like @FwyFlyer have dropped VR in favor of desktop one. In fact, for you, playing in VR, nothing changed.

For us, playing with normal screen, physics changed a lot. Rear suspension was reworked. Yes, it is rear anti-roll bar that I have to soften twice compared to old setups and still it is just a partial solution.

I would even say, that it is very likely the change was made in favor of key players (who use discrete controllers or keyboard), as controlling the car by small pinches (like pressing keyboard bottom) became more easier and rewarding then it used to be.

The problem is that these changes were made silently by developers. It was not announced in patch note. Even their own PR team has no idea. I guess, the developer, who did it has not informed even his own tam lead, not to be punished for putting his hands on something he was not supposed to.

Now all my setups are f..d up! 😾 I have to learn to drive again. And I am not sure that this new update making the game more realistic, or just turns it into pure arcade, where you have to learn game rules, but not close to real simulation.

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Tigron

[Ialyrn 264]

4 minutes ago, Tigron said:

The people that bugs me are the protectors of whatever developer has done. I myself work in IT and see this kitchen every day. These people does not need either your care, or protection. They will do whatever they want, and we, simple users, have to accept it or stop using the software.

Im not defending them, I have a different opinion to you. Nothing more and nothing less, grow up.
 

5 minutes ago, Tigron said:

Regarding to the case. Your video is in VR. And it was reported, that VR version has this physics for a long time. Some people like @FwyFlyer have dropped VR in favor of desktop one. In fact, for you, playing in VR, nothing changed. 

Its the same game, there is no difference in physics between VR and flat screen play. Again, Grow up.

 

6 minutes ago, Tigron said:

For us, playing with normal screen, physics changed a lot. Rear suspension was reworked. Yes, it is rear anti-roll bar that I have to soften twice compared to old setups and still it is just a partial solution. 

I play on a monitor just as often as I play in VR -

 

Again, Grow up.

 

[Tigron 48]

5 minutes ago, Ialyrn said:

Again, Grow up.

@Ialyrn this level of discussion is not welcome. You know nothing about me, buy you dare to judge me by one discussion where I disagreed with your arguments. You opinion, young lady, is NOT an ultimate truth!

I heard you opinion. Challenge accepted. 😼 Now you try to open your mind for other people's opinions.

[Ialyrn 264]

Just now, Tigron said:

@Ialyrn this level of discussion is not welcome. You know nothing about me, buy you dare to judge me by one discussion where I disagreed with your arguments. You opinion, young lady, is NOT an ultimate truth!

I heard you opinion. Challenge accepted. 😼 Now you try to open your mind for other people's opinions.

You have created an entire thread just to call me out. I would happily listen to your opinion, and have a discussion with you, but you had no need to go to this extent if you dont agree with my opinion. If you wanted a discussion, you would have just private messaged me if you didnt want to spam the report thread, but no, you decided to do it this way instead. Ive seen all I need to see, and you need to grow up. This is just utterly pathetic, and you are been condesending just for the hell of it.

[UnderclassGDfan 483]

Guys'n'Girls...chill!

I play on Xbox One S with standard One S controller on a normal 1080p flat TV.
Absolutely no differences in driving physics in dry/rain/night/snow/ice/asphalt/gravel/smallkittycats for me.

It just LOOKS for me, your driving is really bad or your doing it on purpose.
And your strange conspiracy theories making it absurd.

 

[richie 522]

To be honest, the OP isn't very convincing. It 'sounds' like there's a lot of placebo in the mix with much fantasy. 

To me physics feel exactly the same as before the latest update. I have played this game almost every day since release, I think I'd notice the slightest of changes. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by richie

[nbates66 21]

2 hours ago, Tigron said:

Some people and I say yes, PC - Steam non VR physics was reworked and became the same as VR.

Physics does not change between VR mode and non-VR mode, i used to switch frequently when tuning performance on VR release, and further on due to some stages having issues with multiplayer disconnects when running in VR(HOPEFULLY thats completely fixed now?).

Edited April 2, 2020 by nbates66

[ApexAzimuth 57]

As a game developer myself, I can tell you that it would be far more of a hassle for the developer to have separate physics setups for VR and non-VR.  This would have to be done deliberately, and it wouldn't make any sense to do it because it would add more work for developers and QA testers.  Even if it were intended for optimization, it would be an ugly and dirty hack that programmers would be itching to get rid of in favor of a more unified solution that doesn't require multiple builds to be maintained.

[Tigron 48]

48 minutes ago, ApexAzimuth said:

it would be an ugly and dirty hack that programmers would be itching to get rid of in favor of a more unified solution that doesn't require multiple builds to be maintained.

We will not know for sure until we have comments from the developers.

 

And for those who doubt... If I was not a good driver, I would not be the 2nd Subiee in the village.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Tigron

[Jake Cushing 816]

1 hour ago, Tigron said:

We will not know for sure until we have comments from the developers. 

And we will not know for sure, until we have comments from the developers, if DR2.0 is secretly monitoring players' conversations to check if they are aware of the Alien Lizard Overlords' impending invasion and subsequent mass farming of humans to convert into fashionable handbags. 

In fact I might start a thread about this. 

[nbates66 21]

2 hours ago, Tigron said:

We will not know for sure until we have comments from the developers.

 

And for those who doubt... If I was not a good driver, I would not be the 2nd Subiee in the village.

Sorry to burst your bubble but that leaderboard is clearly not very populated(can tell from the size of the scrollbar), which is often the case for wet leaderboards, This means that you do not see a good spread of data representative of the whole playerbase. The top time for the Subaru NR4 is far beyond what is seen in your screenshot, i just found out doing a run myself, one run - no practice with the car:

Also just for kicks i did some runs in non-VR mode and matched that time there as well.

Edited April 2, 2020 by nbates66
for kicks

[danielofifi 451]

That was cruel man...

[Ialyrn 264]

Now I have had some sleep, lets revisit this.

13 hours ago, Tigron said:

Some people and I say yes, PC - Steam non VR physics was reworked and became the same as VR. Rear suspension was reworked. Now there is very little to no traction on rear wheels, that make cars very wobbly and unstable and very easy to spin. Breaking distance increased a lot, and you cannot break with your rear if you loose your front traction. In fact you completely loose the car as soon as you start sliding and it happens suddenly and very unpredictably.

I play on steam, whether I play the game in VR or on a monitor; it is always the steam version I play. Whether you perceive changes to the physics or not, I dont. We are allowed to have a difference of opinion. If you would like proof that I play via the steam version of the game, you just need to look at your very own picture of the leaderboard for the Kailajarvi Finland stage in the wet; where you have it set to steam only. I am very clearly at the No2 spot on the steam only LB with a time of 03:23.941. I am guessing you missed that.

9 hours ago, Tigron said:

We will not know for sure until we have comments from the developers.

 

And for those who doubt... If I was not a good driver, I would not be the 2nd Subiee in the village.

In the report thread for version 1.13, I offered you a solution based on the fact the tuning for the Subaru Legacy and the Impreza S4 have stiff rear ARB settings. Your original complaint was primarily about those two cars. A stiff rear anti roll bar will make a car more prone to oversteer, and experience potential loss of control much easier in some circumstances. Such as on wet stages, ice, or snow; as well as over bumps due to the lack of give in them. @PJTierney knows this information based on his own experiance with racing games and sims, which is probably one of the reasons he asked if you had read my post. You then replied and moved the goal posts to include the MG Metro 6R4 Group B car, and the Ford Mustang Rally GT car. I replied by showing the Ford Mustang being driven on the same stage as you, in the same conditions (night + heavy rain) on the Scotland stage "Old Butterstone Muir reverse". The only difference being, that I ran the game in VR via Steam. You then decided to make this thread in a direct response to me, to essentially point out how my information and opinion is irrelivent because I play in VR, state the physics are not the same for me; and pretty much call me a shill for Codemasters.

13 hours ago, Tigron said:

The people that bugs me are the protectors of whatever developer has done. I myself work in IT and see this kitchen every day. These people does not need either your care, or protection. They will do whatever they want, and we, simple users, have to accept it or stop using the software.

Regarding to the case. Your video is in VR. And it was reported, that VR version has this physics for a long time. Some people like @FwyFlyer have dropped VR in favor of desktop one. In fact, for you, playing in VR, nothing changed.

You also cherry picked a quote of mine, and removed it from its original context; so I shall fix that.

The part of your post I responded to.

20 hours ago, Tigron said:

Also, the AI thread for rainy weather became alive again. Is it possible to add extra buff for AI for people using internal cameras in Rain conditions. The guys with external cameras set up unrealistic times, that pushes AI times to the point where they are unbeatable when you play with internal cameras, because you just cannot see the road. Especially on fast splits, AI just flat out like it does not rain.

And I directly responded with.

16 hours ago, Ialyrn said:

This really bugs me when people say this sort of stuff, assuming that anyone who can get near the top of the leaderboards must be using some form of workaround, an exterior view, or some other shady thing that just gets pulled out of thin air. It can never be just a case that some people might just be faster than you.

See what context can achive?

If anyone would like to see my original post, and to check context between myself and Tigron, the link is here. -

13 hours ago, Tigron said:

Regarding to the case. Your video is in VR. And it was reported, that VR version has this physics for a long time. Some people like @FwyFlyer have dropped VR in favor of desktop one. In fact, for you, playing in VR, nothing changed.

Lets revisit this right here shall we. Tagging this person in from the report thread, I assume in the hope they would corroborate your story. Unfortuantly, you was clearly much to busy making this thread to make my opinion seem irrelivent compared to yours, that you missed their follow up post in regards to the low grip situation.

16 hours ago, FwyFlyer said:

Over the last two days, most of the grip has come back and I can race again at least on the dry roads... even in VR.  I do not know what caused the issue with the slippery rear end nor what fixed it.  I can say that since the issue arose I updated from a 4.40 series nvidia graphics driver to a 4.78 series driver but it made no immediate difference.  I did reboot after installation...  Perhaps it was an errant windows update.  End result, I'd still like to see more rear grip in wet scenarios but I am glad to be racing again.

Seems at least some of their issues have vanished after messing with driver updates and restarting their computer. Fancy that.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the main reasons why people perceive a grip difference between VR and flat monitor play, is to do with the view differences between them both. In VR, a person has a much better view, more immersive, with a far more accurate FOV (Field of View), and greatly increased depth perception. This makes it far easier to judge braking points, turning points, and acceleration points. A competent racer in VR can be vastly more consistent because of this, and even faster than when playing on a flat monitor. Assuming all their equiptment is setup correctly. As VR allows you to read what is going on much easier than on a monitor, so you can anticipate and react better.

Im not so egotisical to think that I am the fastest person around. I am brisk when it comes to racing games, but I know my limits, I accept there are those faster than me. @nbates66 is often one of those people I see higher on the LB than me often. They drove the NR4/R4 Impreza faster than I can, by about 2 seconds, on Kailajarvi in the wet. I imagine if they ran the same stage in the Lancer Evo NR4/R4, they would stomp my time as well. Because they are faster, on average, than I am. That is the thing you seem to be missing, that bit of humility. You are blaming the game, the devs, and other players; for not been able to post the fastest times or control the cars. And for even making the AI times faster.

Like I said in the report thread to you

16 hours ago, Ialyrn said:

The only disadvantage you are at, is the one you are giving yourself by blaming the game and other players!

If you have a negative attitude when you pick up any video game, your performance wont be as good as it can be. If you are this frustrated with the game, you need to take a break and play something else for a bit. Have a cup of tea, and come back to the game with a fresh mindset. Like I have with this thread. If your having issues controlling the cars, slow down and give yourself some thinking time. Practice on wet stages so you get used to them. Honestly, if I had to hazard a guess; it sounds like you are trying to drive as you would on a dry stage.

Still, in the interest of fair play and dialog with others; I ran the Kailajarvi Finland stage in the wet on my monitor. I went the extra mile and even did a run in Custom Championship with "Heavy Rain" turned on, as well as in Time Trial mode for a direct 1 to 1 comparison with your Time Trial mode run. Please take note of my consistency with the Impreza on the first 2 runs. As an added bonus, I also did the same stage in the Lancer as well. Make of my runs what you will, but I will tell you that from what I experianced; grip levels felt the same as always to me in those 2 cars. I had no issues controlling them, I even beat my time in the Lancer taking it from a 03:23.974, to a 03:21.708.
 

If you want to have a proper open dialog with me, then dont reply as you did in the first post of this thread; or be condesending to me again by saying things like "young lady" to further make my opinions and thoughts irrelivent to you own. No matter which way you cut it, you made this thread with only the intention of calling me out. So lets make it a useful discussion thread about your grip issues instead of tit for tat it currently is.

 

[nbates66 21]

8 minutes ago, Ialyrn said:

One of the main reasons why people perceive a grip difference between VR and flat monitor play, is to do with the view differences between them both. In VR, a person has a much better view, more immersive, with a far more accurate FOV (Field of View), and greatly increased depth perception.

I agree with the FOV difference, i tried to setup a more correct FOV on my monitor once across all the DiRT games and found it messed up my judgement of everything when trying to catch slides - my monitor is too small and at the wrong distance from my face for FOV correction to be useful, returning the FOV setting to the default i was used to and i could catch slides again, the physics didn't change - just my perception and reaction to what i was seeing.

[SRD_SimVansevenant 863]

10 hours ago, Tigron said:

We will not know for sure until we have comments from the developers.

 

And for those who doubt... If I was not a good driver, I would not be the 2nd Subiee in the village.

There aren't many people on that leaderboard by the looks of that scroll bar, as was mentioned by someone else. Probably about 30 people are on there tops.

Besides that, you claim to be a good driver while your time is half a minute slower than the top result on a 'slightly over 3 minute'-stage.
That does hurt your credibility quite considerably. I wish you the best of luck proving your point but I haven't felt any difference since the latest update.
I play this game on a nearly daily bases and rank amongst the top 1% percent overall so I would definitely feel some form of change if it was there.

[UnderclassGDfan 483]

So, I did a 3:29.124 in the SUBARU WRX STI NR4 on my 3rd run.
2nd was a 3:32.XXX I believe. 1st (and my very first run of the day, being awake for around an hour now (FREE TIME, YEAH!), was a 3:36.XXX.
Used the default setup, because I am lazy today (always).

There were no differences experienced in driving physics.

I think people, not only Tigron, need to focus on getting better at driving, instead of blaming the game.
Even IF there would be something not right (like tarmac physics some say at this forum), you still can get used to it and make the best of it.
Everyone has the same experience (except VR users, those are cheating).
😃

 

[Tigron 48]

54 minutes ago, Ialyrn said:

You then decided to make this thread in a direct response to me, to essentially point out how my information and opinion is irrelivent because I play in VR, state the physics are not the same for me; and pretty much call me a shill for Codemasters.

Well, @Ialyrn I really don't know why you making scandal out of nothing and try to see in my posts something that has never been there. In fact I do not care about your opinion. You told your arguments. You voted. That's it! I have a right to disagree. And I am trying to be polite at it's maximum. In fact, you have no reason to be offended and write long sheets in response, trying to prove me something I don't care about.

41 minutes ago, SRD_SimVansevenant said:

That does hurt your credibility quite considerably. I wish you the best of luck proving your point

Not at all! First, I never try to be on top-top of the leader board. The position I reached is already high enough (considering the time I play and the time I can spend in the game daily). Second, how many people in the world can reach this time? How many at all can drive like this? I am already a very cool guy, and I enjoy it! 😎

With the screenshot of the leader board I just show that I am not that much bad driver, like some people like you try to show me, using my own videos of fails. At all, it is so dirty trick in the discussion trying to reduce opponent's arguments weight, by showing him as inexperience one and not worth of listening.

PEOPLE,

Please return to the topic and be polite! What I wanted by starting this thread:

1. Get comments from the developers if there was any tweaks in driving physics in v1.13, that was not clearly reported in the patch note?
2. Get comments from the developers, if these changes were done for better realism, or for driving comfort of discrete HIDs (game controllers and keyboard)?
3. Get comments from the people who drive real rally cars in wet conditions, if Dirt Rally 2.0 physics in v1.13 has anything in common with real car, or it is as arcade as it is?
4. Get comments from ALL players, if they are satisfied and what they feel about driving physics in v1.13?

 

[PJTierney 4,950]

Hi everyone, just got word from the dev team on this:

 

• There are no differences between the physics implementation in the VR version of the game and the non-VR version of the game.
• Also, to confirm: no changes were made to the handling physics in version 1.13

 

That should hopefully put things to rest for you all.

[SRD_SimVansevenant 863]

3 hours ago, PJTierney said:

Hi everyone, just got word from the dev team on this:

 

• There are no differences between the physics implementation in the VR version of the game and the non-VR version of the game.
• Also, to confirm: no changes were made to the handling physics in version 1.13

 

That should hopefully put things to rest for you all.

Thank you, @PJTierney.
This clears everything up and we can conclude this thread.

[Murikka 251]

3 hours ago, Tigron said:

Not at all! First, I never try to be on top-top of the leader board. The position I reached is already high enough (considering the time I play and the time I can spend in the game daily). Second, how many people in the world can reach this time? How many at all can drive like this? I am already a very cool guy, and I enjoy it! 😎

With the screenshot of the leader board I just show that I am not that much bad driver, like some people like you try to show me, using my own videos of fails. At all, it is so dirty trick in the discussion trying to reduce opponent's arguments weight, by showing him as inexperience one and not worth of listening.

😶

@Ialyrn

I have to say you are fast af with that mitsu. I can't figure out how to drive awd cars, so I keep driving my trusty Escort.