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Rallycross times & positions are off

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I've started my first Rallycross championship on Pro difficulty, driving the RX2 car. I have found that my times and positions are rather odd.

I finished 14th overall in the first event at Silverstone, but won all the heats by at least five seconds.

In the second event at Montalegre, I was 11th after the heats and just like at Silverstone, had won them comfortably. 

I assumed that due to being second to last on the leaderboard, I would be 5th or 6th in the semi-final, but not so. I came 2nd in that and the final.

How can it be that I'm way off the overall pace in the heats, but can match the AI in the semi-final and final?

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Posted (edited)

The random times in rallycross qualifying are broken. There is often a staggering discrepancy between the level of the AI drivers in your heat and in semi-finals and finals, compared to the random times from the other heats. The random times should be around the same level as the AI opponents you race against but they are worlds apart.

Here is one example. Fastest AI driver is 2:40 while random times start from 2:28. 3 seconds per lap is the gap between AI drivers and the random times. That is not even close to the worst I have seen. 7 or 8 seconds discrepancy for 4 laps is pretty common on most tracks and it can be as much as 20 seconds.

20200127223329_1.thumb.jpg.db4f4266c36c62b23f1f6900a54f57e2.jpg20200127223333_1.thumb.jpg.ed7fc997df95594e9f005e2734dd3f9e.jpg

 

I have been reporting this for months, this is a game-breaking problem that completely ruins offline rallycross but Codemasters don't care, I have never got an actual response regarding this issue, not even a "we are aware of the issue and looking into it".

Edited by HoksuHoo
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From my point of view it seems like in quali 1 you fight against the weakest drivers, if you manage to win, then you compete with better guys until you are matched with the fastest in semi finals and finals. In other words, if you're doing well, the difficulty rises with every qualifier. So to be competitive and get to the finals, you should practice until you can consistently post times comparable to those of the fastest guys, then you're safe. In reality I assume the drivers are more closely matched, but that's a game and they wanted to make more accessible I guess.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, danielofifi said:

From my point of view it seems like in quali 1 you fight against the weakest drivers, if you manage to win, then you compete with better guys until you are matched with the fastest in semi finals and finals. In other words, if you're doing well, the difficulty rises with every qualifier. So to be competitive and get to the finals, you should practice until you can consistently post times comparable to those of the fastest guys, then you're safe. In reality I assume the drivers are more closely matched, but that's a game and they wanted to make more accessible I guess.

That is not how it works at all. You don't understand what you are talking about.

If I manage to consistently post times that are 3-5 seconds per lap faster than the physical AI drivers, then imagine what happens in semi-finals and finals where I race against the physical AI drivers that are 3-5 seconds per lap slower than me.

I can match the physical AI drivers just fine, like OP. The problem is the random times are nowhere near the same level as them. That is not about Kevin Hansen being faster than Pal Try, that is about the random times being far faster than when the same driver is on the track with you. Try to understand.

Edited by HoksuHoo

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I understand what you're talking about. I think it's you who doesn't understand.

I'm not saying that top AI is always a few seconds ahead of you, I'm saying you should compare yourself not with the guys you drive against in quali 1, but with the times posted by top AI. In your example, if you can't do ~ 2:30 on that track, it means the difficulty is too high for you right now. It's not like if you start posting 2:30, the AI will start posting 2:20 all of a sudden.

I will do some testing later to check if my theory is true.

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Posted (edited)

Facepalm.

I can beat the AI drivers I race against. If I reach semi-finals or finals I win. My level isn't too high, the level of the random times is horribly mismatched compared to the AI drivers on the track.

The same thing happens in every heat. Physical AI drivers do 2:40 while random times start from 2:28. Again that is not about one driver being faster than the other. Kevin Hansen in my heat does 2:40, Kevin Hansen in other heats does 2:28. Because the randomized times are not the same level as when they are on the track with you. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

If I post 2:30 then AI drivers will still be 2:40. Meaning I will beat them by 15 seconds in semi-finals and finals.

OP won every one of his heats by five secons and didn't even reach semi-finals. And you seriously cannot figure out what is wrong with that.

Get rid of that delusion of knowledge.

Edited by HoksuHoo

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Calm down buddy. I do mainly Group B Rallycross and I'm just writing about what I experienced there. I've realised that if I can't match best AI times (what you call "random times"), then it doesn't matter if I beat my physical rivals in qualis, I just won't get through to the semis and that's it. For me it's a game design choice rather than a bug, to ensure that a player gets some on track action even if he's not fast enough for that difficulty level. I agree it shouldn't work like this, but it does. It would help if a dev chipped in on this.

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Posted (edited)

The way you keep lecturing and asserting while you refuse to understand the point is kind of irritating you know.

It's not about being too slow for your level. The difficulty is broken since there is a huge difference in difficulty between the randomized times in qualifying and when the same drivers are on the track with you. I truly have no idea how to make you understand that.

Same driver in your heat: 2:40

Same driver in other heats: 2:28

That is a huge discrepancy.

OP won every heat by five seconds but finished 14th. He is way too fast for the AI drivers at that level, but at the same time he is way too slow against the randomized times on that level. You can't set the difficulty to suit you since the same difficulty is mismatched

Edited by HoksuHoo

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You are both right. I race 100 % AI, there's a gap between the randomized times in Q and when they are on track with me. It's broken but not on every tracks. Mettet is one of them, And I understand what Danielofifi said. Who appears in what heat is not random at all. In Heat 1 yes it's true, But in Heat 2, 3 and 4 no. If I finished Heat 1 in 1st place overall, i will race in heat 2 against the AI who finished 2nd, 3rd, 4rd and 5th in that 1st heat. Last time I raced Killarney track, in the 1st heat, i was with Demoustier, Tohill, Bryntesson (slowest AI) and i won by 10 seconds. In the second heat i raced faster AI (Kristoffersson, Bakkerud, Hansen) and it was a closer fight. Even in real life, a driver can win his heat race and finish 16th overall for that heat,

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Posted (edited)

If you are as fast as the randomized times then semi-finals and finals will be a joke because the AI drivers are far slower than you. Also you will win every heat by a huge margin, for the very same reason.

If you are as fast as the physical AI drivers then you are fast enough to win semi-finals and finals, but you will usually not get there because you will finish 16th in every qualifier since the randomized times are far faster than the physical AI opponents.

It's not possible to have good offline racing on some levels because the difficulty is broken. The randomized times have to be around the same level as the physical AI opponents on the track.

Edited by HoksuHoo
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Okay I did some testing as promised, here are the results:

from quali 2, as you can see I beat my heat opponents by 10s., this also put me 1st overall. Fastest AI is doing around 2:35.

 

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Quali 3, I made a mistake and finished last in my heat, my fastest opponent did 2:34 and was 1st overall as well

 

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Quali 4, I'm first in my heat and overall, AI pushed a bit more but only one guy manages to go under 2:35

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Finally, semis, I get rammed on lap one and get a puncture, decide to go to the end to see how AI did. As you can see, it's still doing ~ 2:35 in four laps.

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Like I argued, best AI drivers are consistent throughout the heats, so you need to set the fastest AI's time as your goal in practice to be competitive, not your quali 1 rivals' pace.. Is it possible that group B rallycross is different from others? I doubt it.

In my opinion, a much bigger problem is how stable AI cars are when it comes to physical contact and can easily spin you out.

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They changed the AI in the latest update, they USED to be as @HoskuHoo describes, with both me and him posting in countless bug threads about the issue

But from my recent playing of the game it seems they have now tweaked the AI to be closer to what you would expect, and they have finally made offline RX playable again

Oh and they also fixed the first lap Joker issue, hallelujah! 

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They did? Ok, that would explain it, as I only started playing rallycross a few days ago. 🙂

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1 hour ago, danielofifi said:

In my opinion, a much bigger problem is how stable AI cars are when it comes to physical contact and can easily spin you out.

That's another of my bugbears with rallycross. It seems as if any contact the AI cars have with the rear of you car will make you far more unstable than when it's the other way round. It also seems that the aggression on Pro is higher than on Open and Clubman and they actively try to punt me off.

In event three at Catalunya I had the same problem I described in the original post. I won every heat by a few seconds except one, where I came second...I was 11th overall after the four heats!

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5 hours ago, MattyH1812 said:

They changed the AI in the latest update, they USED to be as @HoskuHoo describes, with both me and him posting in countless bug threads about the issue

But from my recent playing of the game it seems they have now tweaked the AI to be closer to what you would expect, and they have finally made offline RX playable again

Oh and they also fixed the first lap Joker issue, hallelujah! 

interesting. that would've been nice to know. in the patch notes for instance... 

I'll give RX another shot.

4 hours ago, WestHam66 said:

That's another of my bugbears with rallycross. It seems as if any contact the AI cars have with the rear of you car will make you far more unstable than when it's the other way round. It also seems that the aggression on Pro is higher than on Open and Clubman and they actively try to punt me off.

yes, this. this is hear-tearingly frustrating.

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8 hours ago, MattyH1812 said:

They changed the AI in the latest update, they USED to be as @HoskuHoo describes, with both me and him posting in countless bug threads about the issue

But from my recent playing of the game it seems they have now tweaked the AI to be closer to what you would expect, and they have finally made offline RX playable again

Oh and they also fixed the first lap Joker issue, hallelujah! 

If they have changed the AI, I certainly haven't noticed it! I've only played RX on Pro since the update, so if they have improved the AI, were the problems with it far worse on difficulties above Clubman before the update? Maybe the jump from Clubman to Pro is far bigger than that from Open to Clubman?   

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