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Lando Norris and Max Verstappen ceremoniously uninstall Codemasters F1 2019

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1 hour ago, UP100 said:

I've never really understood why'd would someone want an F1 sim. The current sims already have F1 imitators or officially licensed cars. Why would you need the full 20 car lineup? Most leagues around want to use custom liveries anyways, so one car is enough (which is possible, isn't it? iRacing has the 2015 McLaren Honda, GT Sport has some Mercedes F1 car, rF2 has loads of older cars + 2012 Marussia etc.)

At least I'm unable to find any kind of benefit of having the officially licensed cars and drivers in rF2 for example. Something can be realistic even if it doesn't have the 20xx season license behind it. rF2 has licensed the 2012 Marussia but I'd say it's quite poor quality compared to the unlicensed old F1/F2/F3 cars, or the old licensed McLaren F1 cars: 

Then there are leagues that produce their own Formula cars, such as FSR which has been around since the year 2000, 9 years longer than the first Codemasters published F1 game. FSR has had drivers such as Bono Huis, Stoffel Vandoorne and most importantly of all, F1 Game Handling team lead Greco 😛 

And this is why f1 under codemasters has never really gone anywhere, the devs and moderators just aren't listening to the player base, it's like they are on different planets

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Well we all know codies are all about money over substance, so they could licence the cars out to rf2, and S397 could develop the cars as a paid series dlc which codies would get extra money from. 

But S397 are lost, they can't sort rf2 out as it is, and at the moment I wouldn't want this joint venture to happen because S397 would half ass it be ause that's what's they are doing at the moment, trying to do to much at one time and half as sing everything

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2 hours ago, UP100 said:

I've never really understood why'd would someone want an F1 sim. The current sims already have F1 imitators or officially licensed cars. Why would you need the full 20 car lineup? Most leagues around want to use custom liveries anyways, so one car is enough (which is possible, isn't it? iRacing has the 2015 McLaren Honda, GT Sport has some Mercedes F1 car, rF2 has loads of older cars + 2012 Marussia etc.)

At least I'm unable to find any kind of benefit of having the officially licensed cars and drivers in rF2 for example. Something can be realistic even if it doesn't have the 20xx season license behind it. rF2 has licensed the 2012 Marussia but I'd say it's quite poor quality compared to the unlicensed old F1/F2/F3 cars, or the old licensed McLaren F1 cars: 

Then there are leagues that produce their own Formula cars, such as FSR which has been around since the year 2000, 9 years longer than the first Codemasters published F1 game. FSR has had drivers such as Bono Huis, Stoffel Vandoorne and most importantly of all, F1 Game Handling team lead Greco 😛 

Twelve years ago I was driving & competing at a local World Rally Championship event in a full-size Toyota F1 car replica, with the real steering wheel et al, powered by rFactor. The level of immersion was great, not even the countless Asian tourists with flashing cameras could break that up. One of the most fun things I've ever done to be honest. Before that I'd always been focused more on rallying games, such as Richard Burns Rally. Personally I don't give a hoot what liveries are on the cars or what the AI drivers are called. What I want is for the game to feel good to drive, to have real and accurate tracks & a working online multiplayer system. The official license is only a marketing gimmick to get more people to buy the game, that's it. And it works.

What we have now in this game don't feel like real cars at all, even though they look the same as on TV. Physics and by extension the car setups are a bad joke. The tracks are real but only semi-accurate at best. The multiplayer system is an utter embarrassment.

I have Assetto Corsa. The few F1 cars it has feel great, the physics and set-ups as well as tracks are good, it just doesn't have more than a handful of F1 tracks. The multiplayer system needs some work, but most importantly, it doesn't have the large player base that an official license brings.

What I don't understand is how the same company can produce rallying and F1 games with such a huge gap between them. Dirt Rally feels great, looks great, sounds great and most importantly - plays great. None of those things are about having real-named pixel drivers. In F1 2019 we have the correctly named pixel drivers but everything else is sub-par. It's just a cash-grab fuelled by the official license. Ask yourselves this: if F1 2019 didn't have the official license and was called "Neeuuww 2019", how many people would buy and play the game?

 

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6 hours ago, UP100 said:

I've never really understood why'd would someone want an F1 sim. The current sims already have F1 imitators or officially licensed cars. Why would you need the full 20 car lineup? Most leagues around want to use custom liveries anyways, so one car is enough (which is possible, isn't it? iRacing has the 2015 McLaren Honda, GT Sport has some Mercedes F1 car, rF2 has loads of older cars + 2012 Marussia etc.) (...)

Then there are leagues that produce their own Formula cars, such as FSR which has been around since the year 2000, 9 years longer than the first Codemasters published F1 game. FSR has had drivers such as Bono Huis, Stoffel Vandoorne and most importantly of all, F1 Game Handling team lead Greco 😛 

Why would someone not want an F1 sim with a full 20 car lineup? Having an authentic visual, acoustical and physical recreation of the real Formula 1 motorsport cars is the dream of everyone who is a Fan, or at least enjoys it. True Formula 1 fans will never be satisfied with a wannabe recreation of a car. Having a more "realistic handling" will cause newcomers and current F1 fans to realize and appreciate the skill that real pilots have and that is required to maneuver these monsters around a circuit. And no, most leagues do not want to use custom liveries. It is something that is not essential for an official motorsport game as well as league and is only an extra headache in the organization process that wastes time. It is good to have the option, but it is not essential. Formula 1 fans want the most real thing possible, with all official teams, cars. handling, drivers, sponsors, accurate recreation of circuits of the respective season and challenge.

Although I am not sure about FSR, the general category of leagues you are referring to has participation fees due to the creation of their own Formula cars. It is an immediate turn off not only for "casuals" but also advanced SimRacers. Unless you are dead serious about making Simracing a significant part of your life with enough financial means then those kind of leagues are not the way to go for you. Also, even if the-oh-so-great Greco is leading the handling team, does not mean that it is going to be a good recreation without accurate reference data from real cars, which is what Codemasters should have access to as the official developer of Formula 1 games.

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Posted (edited)

@MrGhostO1O 

I think that a more simulation like game having the F1 license would just mean that we may get better handling but we are sacrificing basically everything else for it. For example if rF2 would have it, we'd get the cars with 20 AI names (not models!) and poor graphics/audio. Like what we get with GT Sport, iRacing or rFactor 1/2. At least the rFactor licensed modern F1 cars weren't that amazing and neither is GT Sport's according to people online (who shouldn't be trusted blindly like I do!)

Codemasters' F1 games are great at giving the fans the actual F1 circus, which is the thing that we are usually interested in when the racing gets too boring for our liking 😛 From R&D to interviews and contracts, Codemasters provide loads of things that most other companies don't really provide. I just honestly don't see much reason in an F1 game with only the cars and nothing else. Though I don't really play F1 games that much, so I guess I don't see much reason in playing F1 games either 😁

About the skins: I was mostly talking about sims. Why would you want to race as some pre-existing team when you could be racing as your own team? I at least find it so much more fun especially if you have friends around! Even drivers in the rF2's Rookie Leagues can be seen running their own liveries.

I tend to talk about FSR because it's one of the oldest Sim Racing leagues around and that I have watched. They had some lovely 2010s season review style highlights of their races which (in my biased opinion) beat most highlights created by F1game leagues

Oh it's Greco! I think you took my Greco comment a bit too seriously 😁 

Edited by UP100
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Posted (edited)

All of the official rf2 f1 cars blow codies f1 cars out of the water, regarding physics, and don't even lmention the tyre model, I can't take you or anyone else serious if you even hint that codies physics and tyre model are even considered on the same level to be compared 

Edited by pachedupdemon
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2 hours ago, pachedupdemon said:

All of the official rf2 f1 cars blow codies f1 cars out of the water, regarding physics, and don't even lmention the tyre model, I can't take you or anyone else serious if you even hint that codies physics and tyre model are even considered on the same level to be compared 

The only thing I think I said was that the modern licensed F1 cars weren't amazing in other games, such as GT Sport's Mercedes F1 car and rF2's Formula ISI/2012 Marussia F1 car.

Obviously rF2 physics are better, but I can still say that the content hasn't always been amazing 🙂

rF2 is still my go to game for racing and I'm surprised that no one critizises my significant bias towards it 😁

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Posted (edited)

if you want to have an esport competition with f1 2019 than they should take ik seriously. Or make a sim and invite real f1 drivers. Or keep it simcade and don't invite the real f1 drivers. You can expect a lot of critism if you invite real drivers for this competion if other games are much better sims. 

I understand that codies would like to please the Arcade players to. It's about the money. But there are many ways to please us all. Seperate the pad and wheel players. In the wheel section make a simcade level and a real sim model. Yes it's a lot of work, but since the yearly updates are copy and paste they should have a lot of time to do this. 

Codies is always good in marketing and hyping. So they should know that there is no better marketing than having a game that is promoted and gets the thumbs up from the real F1 drivers like Max and Lando. 

 

 

Edited by aartstyle
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34 minutes ago, aartstyle said:

but since the yearly updates are copy and paste they should have a lot of time to do this. 

Yeah no. They don't have people lying around doing nothing for the whole year 😁

 

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Why doesn't Codemasters get a Formula 1 driver to improve the handling of the cars?

They have all the time right now!

Hülkenberg, might have more time 😉

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2 hours ago, LILLHELM said:

Why doesn't Codemasters get a Formula 1 driver to improve the handling of the cars?

They have all the time right now!

Hülkenberg, might have more time 😉

Even better get TWO of them and market it as a super rivalry for the next game. They can record some heated discussions for the post race interviews as well. In fact getting all the drivers in just to record some random radio chatter would be fun!

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Posted (edited)

Something i would like to hear is the real life engineers and drivers on team radio, add realism, 

Edited by DANDREWTHOMSON

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Posted (edited)

Also see where each team is based say Woking HQ Mcclaren, and more the outside surroundings, when for example when choosing driver and team.

Edited by DANDREWTHOMSON

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Is there a thread to talk about F1 streamers?

I just watched Jimmy Broadbent do a Virtual GP and to be honest he seemed more level headed than the F1 drivers organising it. Lando basically wants his game to work all of the time but if someone else's game isn't working it isn't reciprocated.

In other words, F1 drivers complain about everything, and sometimes it is only to gain an advantage, so take it with a pinch of salt.

The game has flaws but so do the F1 drivers. I don't think their reputation is great either. For example, they weren't able to decide what settings to actually race under and kept losing viewers because they kept redoing quali instead of racing under the original game.

I can see now why the FIA don't take the drivers meetings too seriously. They are always going to push without fairness and need restraint.

But for the record I do think an F1 simulation/arcade split may be an idea as there is a big gap between the casual fan and the actual racer.

However, to do real sim racing surely it would cause a subscription like iracing.

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Posted (edited)

In my opinion, Codemasters need to censor/remove this statement on Twitch from 4 days ago: "Real F1 drivers say F1 2019 is nothing like driving an actual F1 car."

This needs to be removed from Twitch ASAP because it will cut into product revenue. A lot of people are planning to buy this game while quarantined because they think the driving model is at least somewhat realistic. This will lure a significant portion of the quarantine maketshare in the upcoming financial crisis into buying Assetto Corsa, rFactor or iRacing instead. This must be removed/censored. 

Does Codemasters not have some shareholders in China. Chinese state censorship could be used to hide this truth from the web. Similar to the October 2019 censorship intervention against Nike, Activision, Blizzard and the NBA.

This stream is only 4 days old and must be hidden/removed quickly before it gets traction and starts influencing product turnover figures.

Potential buyers think F1 2019 is at least a somewhat realistic portrayal of driving an F1 car, we cannot allow statements like this from actual F1 drivers to have this affect on turnover. People must be led to believe it is realistic to maintain the current marketshare.

In my opinion, consequently, attempts must be made to identify aggressive litigation possibilities if actual Formula One drivers or other Formula One professionals fail to engage and align with Codemasters business interests in the future. This could be by mutually agreed contracts or in case of resistance, through intervention of LM itself.

This truth must be hidden no matter the cost.

Adversely, it will have a major impact on future Codemasters F1 releases, with a possible consequence of even obsoleting the EGO engine itself. This means a complete overhaul of all technical development processes, packages, objects, UI, assists programming, etc. Physics will need to change to being physically-based with the tire thread and wireframe contact patch fully simulated and actual vs canned flatspots including Pajecka curves. The physics model will need to improve with higher samples, to enhance resolution of shock/spring responses which will in turn mean increasing the density of road meshes. Chassis flex, and torsional forces will need to be included, etc. 

Apart from the assets, the product will need to be rewritten from the ground up for increased driving fidelity, if statements like this are allowed to continue.  

This is impossible and must not be allowed to happen. 

The fact that it is an arcade game camouflaged as an accurate driving experience must not be exposed like this. 


F1 drivers:

"F1 2019 is too much like an arcade game. You don't drive it anything like you do a real F1 car".

From 0.35s on


 
Edited by codexas

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Posted (edited)
On 4/12/2020 at 4:29 AM, MrGhostO1O said:

 

Codemasters' F1 games are, have never been and will never be decent sims like iRacing. Due to it being an official motorsport game it cannot be restricted to advanced drivers/SimRacers like in iRacing. Being an official game does not have to mean that you must be playable by all kinds of players, but in order to maximize the potential of the player count you are pretty much forced to.

This is a false assumption in logic. Software developers knew how to do this even 29 years ago. F1GP and Grand Prix 2 by Microprose could be set to a fidelity that was on a par with real life difficulty (in terms of steering ratio, tire slip angles and opposite lock reactions using an actual steering wheel) while also featuring scalable assists for the complete novice player that actually made the game fun for everyone. That is why these games made by Geoff Crammond became legends and are still spoken of in high regard even today.

That was in 1991. 29 years ago. That software by Geoff Crammond / Microprose also had a TV director replay function, where the post race replay would (if desired) AUTOMATICALLY switch between cars and camera angles depending on the action on track. When a car got close to another car, the replay would switch to the gearbox view of the car being lapped. If another car went off track the camera would change to trackside view of the car going off. If a car passed another car, it would show the overtake from onboard or trackside. Like an actual TV broadcast.

That was 29 years ago.

27 years later (2018) software developers like Codemasters still had the single car replay. By the 28th year (2019) Codemasters finally included functionality whereby atleast the camera position changed on the single car throughout the replay; "Highlights". But still, replays are limited to just ONE CAR and do not change camera's automatically (if desired). It's not strange that in 30 years they have not done that as the product is iterative turn around. Very little development is done year on year as investment expenditure planning is asymptotic for every yearly release. Nothing can be done that fundamentally changes the underlying code. Just the jacket (assets) is polished up every year.


The overarching problem for realism in Codemasters F1 isn't that it can't cater to the everyman. Like I said above, it could.

The problem is the engine itself. Everything is canned in EGO. There is no actual physics based simulation. There are no wireframe tires actually physically interacting with a road surface based on physical constants. Everything is a pre-programmed effect. That is why in Dirt Rally 2 the tarmac physics are so off. The engine simply cannot be used as an accurate simulator. But when clothed in attractive assets it looks real to the layman.

 

Edited by codexas

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Really?

You basically say the same thing in the "Lando and Max ceremoniously uninstall f12019" thread:

 

The problem is the engine itself. Everything is canned in EGO. There is no actual physics based simulation. There are no wireframe tires actually physically interacting with a road surface based on physical constants. Everything is a pre-programmed effect. That is why in Dirt Rally 2 the tarmac physics are so off. The engine simply cannot be used as an accurate simulator. But when clothed in attractive assets it looks real to the layman

 

No physics simulation, ie arcade. But we know that, anyone with half a brain knows that the game is simcade at best.

You can't have it both ways!

 

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Let's play a game.

 

I take down every forum post giving beneficial criticism, hide every video showing glitches from eSports races, delete or ignore to the best of my ability reports or exposure of problems with the game that have been present for 10 years and that need fixing and ignore the majority of the community who bring fantastic and innovative ideas to the table completely.

 

Who am I?

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I've merged these threads together for the reason that the topics are still basically the same.

Also yeah? The idea of an official Formula 1 game is to be an arcade game. Norris also talked about GT Sport in the same fashion, so it kind of just means that the games are doing what they should be doing I suppose. It's like someone posting about some real life driver calling DiRT 3 arcade! 😛 

Edited by UP100

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7 hours ago, codexas said:

27 years later (2018) software developers like Codemasters still had the single car replay.

In offline mods, all 22 cars have been available in the replay mode since F1 2015.

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2 hours ago, UP100 said:

In offline mods, all 22 cars have been available in the replay mode since F1 2015.

You didn't understand his point. The "highlight" mode only shows your car. And I should add that works bad, doesn't show the best bits, and only shows the most boring parts.

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2 hours ago, UP100 said:

I've merged these threads together for the reason that the topics are still basically the same.

Also yeah? The idea of an official Formula 1 game is to be an arcade game. Norris also talked about GT Sport in the same fashion, so it kind of just means that the games are doing what they should be doing I suppose. It's like someone posting about some real life driver calling DiRT 3 arcade! 😛 

The fact it's an arcade doesn't mean it has to be completely unrealistic.

And no, F1 is not a complete arcade, you're extremely naive if you think so. In the last years Codemasters tried to add some simulation in their F1 Series. An higher refresh rate for tyres, temp simulation for the tyre which is actually interesting since it has temps for the core and the outside of the tyre. So they don't want to be and arcade, they're trying to satisfy both arcade gamers and simracers.

This mean that simracers are expecting at least something realistic, not perfectly done like in a sim, but something that at least reminds something realistic. Which doesn't happen when you have curbs with less grip than ice, a ffb which is weird: I have this problem since F1 2017, the wheel should exert a force when you turn the wheel. The greater the speed the greater the force that the wheel exerts. In the F1 game the force that the wheel exerts is always the same, in slow and fast corners, which I think is quite unrealistic with the results of being too hard in slow corners and too soft in fast corners.

Or the fact that in slow corners the ffb is non existent, you can't tell what the car is doing.

I'm not asking F1 to have a super detailed ffb, I'm asking to have at least a proper and decent force feedback.

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26 minutes ago, TheWalker17 said:

You didn't understand his point. The "highlight" mode only shows your car. And I should add that works bad, doesn't show the best bits, and only shows the most boring parts.

I did understand it, but like always, I correct stuff that could mislead others into believing stuff that's not right 🙂 

In this case, I just mentioned that we've had 22 car replays since F1 2015 (which is the max amount of cars we've had in games from F1 2015 and onwards), so that no one accidentally thinks that what he was talking about applies to singleplayer and then spread that information around without checking it.

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And Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix 3 came with a 174 page manual.  Diddly squat from Codemasters for F1 2019.  At least at the top here there is a New Player Guide for DiRT Rally 2.0!!

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