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And I reckon that is the reason Codies want to have flashbacks in Grid Games.  To make the games more welcoming to more new recruits.  So, how to implement flashbacks for new players without alienating the veteran fans?

Frank

P.S.  Not all of us used flashbacks even as new players.  GRID was only my second contemporary racing game and I managed to get into it without flashbacks, but that doesn't seem to work for everyone.
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RubyRuby said:
And I reckon that is the reason Codies want to have flashbacks in Grid Games.  To make the games more welcoming to more new recruits.  So, how to implement flashbacks for new players without alienating the veteran fans?

Frank

P.S.  Not all of us used flashbacks even as new players.  GRID was only my second contemporary racing game and I managed to get into it without flashbacks, but that doesn't seem to work for everyone.
yeah back on F1 2010 I tried to get into the game  without using flashbacks as well as I felt using flashbacks might feel somewhsat cheating the system but I just found the handling to difficult without them even on Amateur difficulty. It's not that I can't race it's just I think that sometimes I have a tendency to push a little too hard when I'm chasing another car especially if I'm close to that car and trying to get past them. I used to use them more than I do now though as I tended to use them all up when first playing it. Nowadays though I've managed to get good enough to not need more than 1 or 2 a session at most the only place I tend to still need them all is Monaco but then I've always found that a somewhat chaotic track and hard to get to grips with. If I'm out front on my own then on the odd occasion I've managed to get through without using any but thsat is quite rare when that happens.
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I don't get It. Each one of us was once a beginner in this online racing world (and not just the online) and never had these flashbacks/rewind thingies at our disposal, because they didn't exist and thank God for that btw, as It would sure have turned us into lazy/worse players. What happened to us without them then? nothing obviously, probably that we ended up being better at our games and enjoying them a lot more as there was also the need to put some effort on It.

Seriously now. This line of thought about adding completely unfair things to, as they say, "help" the newcomers, is already bordering on absurdity, just like the dictatorship of political correction that sadly rules most human beings behaviour nowadays (retardation, to put it simply).

We were all newcomers once, and we never had the need of cheesy things like these. We just wanted to play, get better and have fun.

I can't help but think sometimes whether this is also a matter of retardation affecting devs rationality and their capacity for judgment and decision making. What should be the red line when It comes to this "helping the newcomer" non-sensically correct line of thought?
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RubyRuby said:
And I reckon that is the reason Codies want to have flashbacks in Grid Games.  To make the games more welcoming to more new recruits.  So, how to implement flashbacks for new players without alienating the veteran fans?

Frank

P.S.  Not all of us used flashbacks even as new players.  GRID was only my second contemporary racing game and I managed to get into it without flashbacks, but that doesn't seem to work for everyone.
yeah back on F1 2010 I tried to get into the game  without using flashbacks as well as I felt using flashbacks might feel somewhsat cheating the system but I just found the handling to difficult without them even on Amateur difficulty. It's not that I can't race it's just I think that sometimes I have a tendency to push a little too hard when I'm chasing another car especially if I'm close to that car and trying to get past them. I used to use them more than I do now though as I tended to use them all up when first playing it. Nowadays though I've managed to get good enough to not need more than 1 or 2 a session at most the only place I tend to still need them all is Monaco but then I've always found that a somewhat chaotic track and hard to get to grips with. If I'm out front on my own then on the odd occasion I've managed to get through without using any but thsat is quite rare when that happens.
But are we talking offline sjsharp2010, if so, I would think most here do not have any issue if flashbacks are available offline for those that want to use them.

But online it a different story. Griefers use flashbacks to their advantage to cause more trouble on the track with flashbacks, some players will take more risks in their racing if they can use a flashback to fix their bad decision to go to fast into turn and get sideways, causing player behind him to hit his car.

The quality of racing will be better in the playlists if there no flashbacks to use. Having flashbacks in playlist will drive good players away and cause online to die off early. IMO


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hola said:
I don't get It. Each one of us was once a beginner in this online racing world (and not just the online) and never had these flashbacks/rewind thingies at our disposal, because they didn't exist and thank God for that btw, as It would sure have turned us into lazy/worse players. What happened to us without them then? nothing obviously, probably that we ended up being better at our games and enjoying them a lot more as there was also the need to put some effort on It.

Seriously now. This line of thought about adding completely unfair things to, as they say, "help" the newcomers, is already bordering on absurdity, just like the dictatorship of political correction that sadly rules most human beings behaviour nowadays (retardation, to put it simply).

We were all newcomers once, and we never had the need of cheesy things like these. We just wanted to play, get better and have fun.

I can't help but think sometimes whether this is also a matter of retardation affecting devs rationality and their capacity for judgment and decision making. What should be the red line when It comes to this "helping the newcomer" non-sensically correct line of thought?
Amen to that!!!  Great post!   :)

Codemasters response....:-@[-X%-(

It would be nice to have some response/input into this.  I know you commented earlier, but come on now CM,  have you seen the light? 

You dont have to re-write any code, and its not going to use any time for this to be implemented.  All it requires is when setting up the online server, just select "NONE" for the available flashbacks option. 
 

Simplez
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personally I don't mind flashbacks online or offline. If we only speak online, since offline u can do exactly what u want and I don't care, but in online mode a flashback can get you back on track if "killed" in first corner of a 15 lapper, it will still cost you positions and time, but you hopefully will be able to finish the race.

Will flashbacks be available in the DD online? What a blast if they where working when we do the LMS (Last Man Standing), the session would go on....and on......and on........and on..... LMAO
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Having flashbacks is probably the reason for getting "killed" at the 1st turn. 

With no flashbacks, if your better than the person who crashed into you, then you can leave them behind, and laugh at them dropping back.  

Give that person a flashback or 5, and they can nail you, 1st turn, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th turn etc.  

Forget flashbacks, just put the effort in, and get better.  
:)

Part of the thrill is getting around the 1st turn and not getting taken out.   Some people hang right back, some scream into it, others will pull over to the side, wait for the smash, then go for the turn, making 5 or more places because you thought "Im just gonna hang back a sec" .

You cant win a race at the 1st turn.  If there are 15 laps, then its less likely for a pile up at the 1st turn, you have 15 laps to catch up.  

With a 3 lap sprint, expect chaos at the 1st turn. 
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Unfortunately I see Flashback as a (pitty) replacement for pit :(
I wonder (quite a bit) how Codemasters try to make GRID a more "realistic" car game while they left out pit?

Instead you're kinda forced to use flashback for car repair.
I guess noone old enough to have tried a kart and up like that solution.
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Having flashbacks is probably the reason for getting "killed" at the 1st turn. 

With no flashbacks, if your better than the person who crashed into you, then you can leave them behind, and laugh at them dropping back.  


Nah, I can't say I see it that way. When I race online I race with friends and long time aquantancies. If a chaos is in first its by 99% not deliberate and here a flashback would help in getting back on track.
Your second point re. no flashbacks I just don't understand. Even if you are by far better than the one crashing into you and your car is spoiled, you be sitting on the pavement laughing at them continuing their race or......?
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Having flashbacks is probably the reason for getting "killed" at the 1st turn. 

With no flashbacks, if your better than the person who crashed into you, then you can leave them behind, and laugh at them dropping back.  


Nah, I can't say I see it that way. When I race online I race with friends and long time aquantancies. If a chaos is in first its by 99% not deliberate and here a flashback would help in getting back on track.
Your second point re. no flashbacks I just don't understand. Even if you are by far better than the one crashing into you and your car is spoiled, you be sitting on the pavement laughing at them continuing their race or......?
Not necessarily, If you both end up in the gravel, then once your out, you can leave the person behind.  


I Guess im just old now to gaming....Being doing it since the 1980's.  Never needed a flashback.  It was just accepted, if you cant complete a certain level or map etc, then your either doing it wrong, or not good enough.  
 Or if you cant win the race, or even complete it, then your not fast enough/good enough.  It is no reason to make the game easier.  

It is down to the gamer, to get good enough at the game to either win, or finish the race. 

I know you flashback lovers quake in your boots at the thought of not having them, but honestly if you dont have them, you will benefit in the long run. If you just cant live without them, then to quote Loore,  "Custom lobbies are your home" or at least should be.  
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Purple44 said:
RubyRuby said:
And I reckon that is the reason Codies want to have flashbacks in Grid Games.  To make the games more welcoming to more new recruits.  So, how to implement flashbacks for new players without alienating the veteran fans?

Frank

P.S.  Not all of us used flashbacks even as new players.  GRID was only my second contemporary racing game and I managed to get into it without flashbacks, but that doesn't seem to work for everyone.
yeah back on F1 2010 I tried to get into the game  without using flashbacks as well as I felt using flashbacks might feel somewhsat cheating the system but I just found the handling to difficult without them even on Amateur difficulty. It's not that I can't race it's just I think that sometimes I have a tendency to push a little too hard when I'm chasing another car especially if I'm close to that car and trying to get past them. I used to use them more than I do now though as I tended to use them all up when first playing it. Nowadays though I've managed to get good enough to not need more than 1 or 2 a session at most the only place I tend to still need them all is Monaco but then I've always found that a somewhat chaotic track and hard to get to grips with. If I'm out front on my own then on the odd occasion I've managed to get through without using any but thsat is quite rare when that happens.
But are we talking offline sjsharp2010, if so, I would think most here do not have any issue if flashbacks are available offline for those that want to use them.

But online it a different story. Griefers use flashbacks to their advantage to cause more trouble on the track with flashbacks, some players will take more risks in their racing if they can use a flashback to fix their bad decision to go to fast into turn and get sideways, causing player behind him to hit his car.

The quality of racing will be better in the playlists if there no flashbacks to use. Having flashbacks in playlist will drive good players away and cause online to die off early. IMO


I know we are talking about online and all my experiences come from offline but to me it's still more or less the same thing as you're still racing with other cars on the track the only difference is the cars are controlled by humans rather than AI at least that's how I see it
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Still no further comment from CM........... 8-}
As it stands flashbacks are on in playlists, although I do believe they've lowered the amount down slightly which should add an element of "should I use it" about them.

You have to remember that for the most part everyone will pile into playlists and not everyone is a great driver, we have to give people a helping hand along the way or sooner or later you're going to run out of drivers to race against. Some people might not be as naturally gifted at racing games as you are, some might not know the track, while others may have a small blip of concentration. 

If you spin out on the first corner and into the gravel it's race over all but guaranteed. Having a flashback at least allows you to race within the pack (even if your chasing the tail of the pack). If someone uses flashbacks then I'd be surprised if they are at the front contending for the podium. If you're in the race hitting every apex and driving the optimal racing line then whether or not someone uses a flashback is going to be of little consequence to you.

I know we've gone on about it but I really do think custom cup is where most of you will find a home away from playlists, the options and control you want are all there, including no flashbacks.

That said, this is something we'll be monitoring once the game goes live and we will act should the need be there. This is something we're keeping a close eye and once the game launches we'll have a vast amount of data to analyse, along with first hand feedback from everyone
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its no gifted ppl
for some ppl its years of playing daily
this ppl should have an advantage, its their right to RACE fair and flashback is cheat
all newcomers have right for study from veterans, like it was for me in grid 1: learn track and traectories, learn cornering, learn braking, learn to avoid crash, learn racing etiquette. Its impossible with flashcheatback
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Purple44 said:
Will there be flashbacks in the online endurance races?

That would seem to be a big cheat to be able to use a flashback in an endurance race.
In a 40 minute race this is one instance where I would be more agreeable to flashbacks being included. I remember many races in Grid's Le Mans where most of the players would quit very early on after making a couple of mistakes leaving you to race against 2 or 3 other players for the rest of the race which was pretty boring tbh.
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You have to remember that for the most part everyone will pile into playlists and not everyone is a great driver,
As has always been the way.  Nothing wrong with that. 

We have to give people a helping hand along the way or sooner or later you're going to run out of drivers to race against.
That is absolute nonsense.  You gave people 5 helping hands, and GRID2 was killed after 2 weeks.  Most of the decent "racers" left and didnt look back,  Flashback nonsense.   The experience needs to be a race not a ram fest with flashbacks. 
Grid 1 - no flashbacks, and still people play on xbox live today, right now. 

Get rid of the flashbacks and sooner or later I will run out of noobs to wreck.

Some people might not be as naturally gifted at racing games as you are
Awwww you noticed...........:D  That has nothing to do with flashbacks.  I had to start somewhere.  I was a noob myself once.  Not for long tho, as I dont play lots of different games at the same time, 1 racer, and 1 FPS. 

To quote Gor " all newcomers have right for study from veterans, like it was for me in grid 1: learn track and traectories, learn cornering, learn braking, learn to avoid crash, learn racing etiquette."

some might not know the track, 
That is their problem, I will not know all of the tracks on day 1, It takes time to learn the tracks. That is how you get better.  I can see a corner coming up, and know I have to brake somewhere. 

while others may have a small blip of concentration. 
Well these people will have a large amount of damage done to their vehicle, should their small blip in concentration ruin my race/car. 

Thankyou for commenting Loore, however  I still feel you should just leave them out of the online playlists, then people who need them can go into custom cups. 

Just out of interest, the flashback in Grid 2, had a slight delay,  I could be about to hit someone on my screen, hit flashback before any impact happens on my screen, but then when im back on track, I can see that my car actually nailed the car I tried to avoid.  

I dont think many people realise there is a delay.  That delay needs to be removed,  but preferably flashbacks removed altoghter from online play.  

Your trying to give people the experience of being in a race car, in a race,  well guess what.....racing involves winning, overtaking, braking, steering, and also sometimes crashing.  

When you crash, you may wreck your car a bit, or totally, leaving you either limping around the track, or spectating.   Its all part of the fun, the experience.  

You cannot appreciate winning, untill you appreciate losing. 

Flashbacks have no place in a "credible" racing game. 


:) 
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Loore said:
Still no further comment from CM........... 8-}

You have to remember that for the most part everyone will pile into playlists and not everyone is a great driver, we have to give people a helping hand along the way or sooner or later you're going to run out of drivers to race against. Some people might not be as naturally gifted at racing games as you are, some might not know the track, while others may have a small blip of concentration. 

trololol
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  • Codemasters Staff
Remember that Flashbacks are not the only thing that determines how a race will play out online. GRID 2 had a very different handling model, different reactions to collisions, split routes on the city circuits, a more severe off-track penalty system. All of these things and more made GRID 2's online what it was - things that are different in Autosport. You may well find that because of the changes between the games, the inclusion of flashbacks doesn't have the same detrimental effect that you found in GRID 2.

And as ever, once the game is out and people are actually playing with the new system, the designers will be keeping an eye on things and listening to the feedback, and they'll go from there.
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