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Codemasters sim or Arcade?

CODEMASTERS WHAT THE CUSTOMER WANTS.   

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  1. 1. YOU WANT F1 GAME TO BE SIM, ARCADE OR SIMCADE YOUR CHOICE! ūüėä



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Posted (edited)

A Racing sim needs 1 fundamental thing.

A great tyre physics model. 

TBH .even True sims dont feel like the real thing. 

Real life Racing cars or a good track day car racing around a real track smells .feels and puts a massive smile on your face.

These games do it as best they can .but it's not real life.

Try driving a 400bhp type R with a hybrid turbo around a track with proper slicks fitted. Or a track day R1 or R6 .

That will scare the life out of you .

Its only when you go home then to bed and you sudden realise how dangerous it was.

What's the worst that could happen in sim Racing. 

AC is pretty decent on the old PC.  And pcars2 ain't that bad on the ps4  

F12019 is improving.  Dirty rally 1.0 and the excellent 2.0 is another huge improvement. 

But for what we pay £50 plus DLC. Its cheap and tremendously affordable. .

All the best .

 

Edited by senna94f1
My bad spelling.
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11 minutes ago, senna94f1 said:

A Racing sim needs 1 fundamental thing.

A great tyre physics model. 

TBH .even True sims dont feel like the real thing. 

Real life Racing cars or a good track day car racing around a real track smells .feels and puts a massive smile on your face.

These games do it as best they can .but it's not real life.

Try driving a 400bhp type R with a hybrid turbo around a track with proper slicks fitted. Or a track day R1 or R6 .

That will scare the life out of you .

Its only when you go home then to bed and you sudden realise how dangerous it was.

What's the worst that could happen in sim Racing. 

AC is pretty decent on the old PC.  And pcars2 ain't that bad on the ps4  

F12019 is improving.  Dirty rally 1.0 and the excellent 2.0 is another huge improvement. 

But for what we pay £50 plus DLC. Its cheap and tremendously affordable. .

All the best .

 

It's true we don't have a 'real' simulation yet from anybody. The crucial factor missing is that edge of grip sensation and what happens after you lose it. In real life it's not an on/off switch otherwise a lot more motorcyclists would be in ER. You can start to lose grip and a feeling of panic can set in immediately as your body tells your mind something is not right and you'd better do something about it fast. Also after you have lost full grip there is a lot you can do to get it back before you enter the dreaded full slide /spinout. It's probably the major experience missing from iracing for example. It would probably take a highly skilled engineer based coding team to work on this alone and it would take a long time especially as it's not a+b (track +tire) but an almost infinite combination of those 2 elements not to mention the effect of your suspension geometry playing a major part. Modeling real world tires would be a good first step as they are consistently manufactured to rigid design specs. Project cars actually has some real world tires in the game for road cars but I can't comment on their accuracy to real life. Once you have a selection of real world tires you'd then have to either make the track surface one of say 10 types or be full on accurate and make it volatile and variable every minute of a race. Sun and rain continually affect the track surface.

My point is that if some developer decides to dedicate several years to this model and then license it to individual games I can see this being possible, yet unlikely. I can't believe for one minute that any game developer would put so many resources into developing their own accurate model. SMS had a go in project cars with their tire model and Live Track 2 but the end result has serious flaws, especially regarding tire wear. Ambitious but overly so in my opinion. Top marks for effort though. If the majority of your customers are casual racers wanting a quick thrill without needing to spend months learning to drive a race car then the simplistic on/off grip model is here to stay. We can only ask for so much in our games /sims before our demands become unrealistic or impractical for a company in business to make a profit.

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10 hours ago, Morsify said:

Not 'defending' the driving model as a sim here, but it's not just the driving though, is it? The whole F1 game is a simulation of Formula 1, especially the career - it simulates what it is like to be a driver in an F1 team, competing in an F1 championship. I think Codemasters deserve some credit for that, as most other sims are simply that - a simulation of a car.

Yes, the others have various options to build your own race or season, but they are generally pretty lifeless. (ok ACC has a championship too). But in general, even those with excellent handling simulation, are not as strong when it comes to conveying an 'atmosphere' of the sport.

The main thing that draws me to the Codemasters F1 games is this whole package, the simulation of F1 itself, the development of the car, the fight for points each race, and the fight to get a better seat - not just the car (even though it is always the most important factor).

Agree with you on most of the description of the "atmosphere" of F1. The "eye candy" part of the software is very good and fun. 

But on the idea that it simulates what it is like to be a driver in an F1 team - I would beg to differ. An F1 driver and an F1 team spend 95% of their time analyzing telemetry data and that ability is not in the game. It is hard to simulate the F1 experience when 95% of it isn't there. Which gets me to the car development part of the game. Typically car development is based on understanding the car's capabilities and what you want to improve by understanding how the car has handled given the variety of driver inputs to the car (telemetry). You can't do that as the game is currently structured.  

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Posted (edited)

Consider what happen yesterday where George Russell keep abuse the track limit without further penalty i say this 100% is a SIM, it's a no brainer.

By the way i really looking forward for more impressive driving like this in the coming virtual GP.

Edited by TenderSurrender
add another point of view.

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How realistic is a videogame is not an important factor in the difference of an arcade game & a simulator.

A simulator is a tool to help you as a use in the real world.
It offer mod so you can use it as a tool to memorize track layout or different cars with your own specification. It help to find safer braking point while offering how it kind of feel like in order for preparation for crash prevention. Laptime is meaningless & skill don't quite transfer well in the real world in term of performance. 

Regardless how realistic the game physic is... Esport conquest is about using arcade technique & insert magic number to win effortless... Thus, if it's not used for real life usage it's arcade, cause it has no simulation value at that point.

It's probably the reason why the genre need another name, because using sim to relate the genre is misleading.

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I agree with the thought of david greco. Simulation does not mean that it is more difficult but to be able to simulate as many aspects as possible in the game. I always said that david would like a game that goes towards simulation, because it is the right way for f1 games. For this reason, driver feedback would be needed, because the biggest difference does not lie in the difficulty of driving the cars, because even in reality they generate a lot of grip and are not too difficult to drive. The biggest difference lies in the behavior of the tires, the suspension, the evolution of the track that gradually gets rubber. Hopefully with the help of SMS to have these "little" things that make the difference and that can only bring the game even more towards simulation

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2 hours ago, mikyesposto95 said:

I agree with the thought of david greco. Simulation does not mean that it is more difficult but to be able to simulate as many aspects as possible in the game. I always said that david would like a game that goes towards simulation, because it is the right way for f1 games. For this reason, driver feedback would be needed, because the biggest difference does not lie in the difficulty of driving the cars, because even in reality they generate a lot of grip and are not too difficult to drive. The biggest difference lies in the behavior of the tires, the suspension, the evolution of the track that gradually gets rubber. Hopefully with the help of SMS to have these "little" things that make the difference and that can only bring the game even more towards simulation

I don't disagree with this, and as a noob with an entry wheel starting my sim career on iRacing, Project Cars 2, etc., I am actually having less understanding of the complaints for the F1 game. For example, some reg posters on here turn down their wheel calibration settings in order to handle better. However, when I use the same settings I feel it takes away the edge of the real life experience, because if I watch an onboard of a Mercedes going down a pit straight at Australia it is actually still rattling all over the place due to track effects, wind etc., and yea g-force I don't get to simulate the experience of.

However, I do agree with the general premise that anywhere from a GT5, Formula Renault, Formula 1 car type model is actually way easier to handle than for example a basic Mazda MX-5 and this has surprised me quite a bit, although perhaps it shouldn't considering Premier League footballers find it easier playing in better pitches than non-league grass roots. But this is my point in general. Will F1 drivers just always aim for better handling as opposed to better simulation of hard handling?

As for the behaviour of finer details I defer to the real drivers. I actually think someone like Norris for example would be best placed in the creation of a game. But maybe that is wrong and it is the random unknown experienced sim racer with a history degree in physics models of all games. Or some developer that just stopped applying for new jobs every year.

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We have some brilliant replies and I agree with each and everyone of them  

VR needs to be standard in every Racing game wether Sim or arcade. 

Every console or pc only has limited space. Especially the consoles.

Some games feel brilliant with FBB on the wheel and that's on standard ps4. AC feels brilliant on the PC. 

So we know it will never be lifelike and we know games have to  be built different to include VR .

So why not concentrate like Jack spade did in pcars1 for consoles. 

I could feel the front or rear of the car through the wheel  

I was gutted when SMS decided not to include Jack spades settings for pcars2 on ps4  .

I am sorry but it's no good having someone testing these games if they dont spend hundreds of hours testing and Racing. 

Its serves no purpose having someone testing the game if as soon as game comes out they are not interested in buying or Racing. 

With the hundreds of hours spent testing Racing on each game I could pick out little bugs still while Racing around the track. 

Only thing I can't do is drive with my eyes closed shut lol.

I have faith in codemasters buying SMS if only just for there tyre physics model.  Expensive but worth it. 

Oh DCS almost killed my gaming PC.¬† Sounds like video killed the radio star ūüôÉ‚Ćõ

 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/22/2020 at 6:49 AM, Hill0 said:

I’m now looking into Iracing. I love racing, when I do play racing games I like racing to be close as it can be to real thing, Surly that’s what people look for when playing a sim from flying an airplane to racing a car? 

iRacing is not realistic! Real life indycar drivers have been very critical if it, as well as many others.

Edited by chen255
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1 minute ago, chen255 said:

iRacing is not realistic. Real life indycar drivers have been very critical if it, as well as many others.

They've been critical mainly cos of one issue, the edge of grip tire model, which nobody has really got right so far. The actual race conditions and organization is second to none. If you want clean racing you got it.

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On 5/9/2020 at 7:59 PM, Tigergrow said:

 

 

On 5/11/2020 at 11:14 AM, mikyesposto95 said:

I agree with the thought of david greco. Simulation does not mean that it is more difficult but to be able to simulate as many aspects as possible in the game. I always said that david would like a game that goes towards simulation, because it is the right way for f1 games. For this reason, driver feedback would be needed, because the biggest difference does not lie in the difficulty of driving the cars, because even in reality they generate a lot of grip and are not too difficult to drive. The biggest difference lies in the behavior of the tires, the suspension, the evolution of the track that gradually gets rubber. Hopefully with the help of SMS to have these "little" things that make the difference and that can only bring the game even more towards simulation

This series of videos that Codemasters did are the best they they have done. It provided a sense that they at least know how to pursue an improved driving model. Would like to see more of these as we get ready for the 2020 release. 

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Sim version for PC and the usual game for console would be ideal. It gives people options. Can you imagine all the kids messing up online sim races on consoles?

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