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Codemasters sim or Arcade?

CODEMASTERS WHAT THE CUSTOMER WANTS.   

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  1. 1. YOU WANT F1 GAME TO BE SIM, ARCADE OR SIMCADE YOUR CHOICE! 😊



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Posted (edited)

I like to know if you will ever make a formula 1 sim game?

Im also hope that you sorted out ERS because in real life they don’t change ERS Manuel.

All the f1 games every year been arcade and it be great if you can do a sim version?

Knowing you brought Mad Studio ( project cars) I hope you won’t be making Project cars 3 in to an arcade! 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

Edited by UP100
Added the poll from another thread to here. No need to have a new thread -UP100
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Quick answers :

They won't

They might

They won't

They won't

They'd lose too many customers if  it was a sim unless they also included an arcade version. Gran Turismo did it back in the day when they had career and arcade as totally different modes. Although career was really arcade tbh and arcade was arcade light

🤔😎

 

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4 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

Quick answers :

They won't

They might

They won't

They won't

They'd lose too many customers if  it was a sim unless they also included an arcade version. Gran Turismo did it back in the day when they had career and arcade as totally different modes. Although career was really arcade tbh and arcade was arcade light

🤔😎

 

But they already have an arcade version 🙂

 

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3 hours ago, dwin20 said:

But they already have an arcade version 🙂

 

Exactly! Already own the biggest market just as it is. Why would they invest considerable money and time into making a sim as well? That would only happen if their sales started to taper off but with new people buying the game each year they can afford to lose a few to dissatisfaction. If you already have a good thing why risk changing it? They have the long term contract extended cos F1 management were pleased with the game. The only way you would get a sim is if F1 game back and said they wanted a more accurate and serious sim and invested a large sum to offset the extra development budget. F1 would only do that if they wanted to train lots more drivers or to run a pro esports league. Seeing as the exclusivity of the real life F1 series is part of the appeal diluting it down would make little sense.

It would make more sense to work on a game to promote the other open wheel series that work as feeders to f1. That would make more people watch the 'lesser' events as well. Except casuals just want to be racing the fastest and biggest series, F1, making the whole idea appeal to a limited market. If it could be done cheap by using the assets of SMS who already made fairly accurate open wheel cars in project cars 2 then it wouldn't be such a risk.

But seriously NONE of this is gonna happen. Nobody takes risks of any kind anymore in the software industry.

Sorry!

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I wish this game was more simulation than arcade. I’d rather pay 100 euros/pounds for a game that gives us the best experience than one that does not. 

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4 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

Exactly! Already own the biggest market just as it is. Why would they invest considerable money and time into making a sim as well? That would only happen if their sales started to taper off but with new people buying the game each year they can afford to lose a few to dissatisfaction. If you already have a good thing why risk changing it? They have the long term contract extended cos F1 management were pleased with the game. The only way you would get a sim is if F1 game back and said they wanted a more accurate and serious sim and invested a large sum to offset the extra development budget. F1 would only do that if they wanted to train lots more drivers or to run a pro esports league. Seeing as the exclusivity of the real life F1 series is part of the appeal diluting it down would make little sense.

It would make more sense to work on a game to promote the other open wheel series that work as feeders to f1. That would make more people watch the 'lesser' events as well. Except casuals just want to be racing the fastest and biggest series, F1, making the whole idea appeal to a limited market. If it could be done cheap by using the assets of SMS who already made fairly accurate open wheel cars in project cars 2 then it wouldn't be such a risk.

But seriously NONE of this is gonna happen. Nobody takes risks of any kind anymore in the software industry.

Sorry!

Agreed and good speculation. However the last sentence, not so sure. SMS took quite a big risk with bringing Project Cars to console. I think they damaged their stock as the game was too ambitious in its scope. They then, in my opinion, compounded that mistake by adding loose surface physics in PC2 instead of concentrating on what the first game did well and polishing out the bugs and issues. Without Project Cars being a (somewhat limited) success on consoles, I doubt Kunos with Asseto Corsa would have followed by bringing another out and out sim to consoles.

I would also say that the likes of EA and 2k have taken quite a risk by pushing the loot box(gambling) /microtransactions/pay to win model to the absolute limit. Not that this is the type of risk that any of us want to see, save the share holders! Hopefully more countries will follow Belgium's lead in declaring such practices immoral and illegal.

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I would buy f1 2020 if it was a sim, if you going to make a decent game do it properly. Everyone different enjoy the game guys.

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Posted (edited)

In my opinion, due to Codemasters holding the exclusive "official rights" to produce F1 games, they have the "dicatorship" over what they can create (unless of course, the FOM explicitly wants only a simcade for whatever reason, or the "Suits" don't want to invest too much money into any new projects). Codemasters could theoretically go on to create a proper sim, with all the gamemodes and features we already have, whilst adding on top of it, and people would still only be able to get the "official" experience with Codemasters F1 franchise. Or Codemasters could do the exact opposite.

 

Regardless of what they do, we only have 1 provider for officially licenced F1 racing games:

 

Codemasters therefore have a huge advantage to other companies and could create a masterpiece of a software, but their approach of pleasing everyone, meaning, all types of gamers and simracers, is not a good choice. As none will be fully happy (F1 2018-Casuals: "oh my god, the tyre simulation is too difficult. make it easy again." Which they did unfortunately. | F1 2019-SimRacers: "oh my god, the cars performance, ffb and handling is too off and or easy. make it harder and more realistic." Which they did not unfortunately.).

 

Imo, it should be either fully sim or more arcade, else it will always have a identity crisis, where it fails to get a decent followership from either pole of the "arcade - sim spectrum", and without a solid fanbase, plans, such as "E-Sports", become ridiculously off putting to those that are still hoping for more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by TheEmpireWasRight
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For the first time ever(I had all F1 games since Mattelvision in the year 80 I will not buy F1 2020 as it is th same since sveral years , setups mean nothing, pads have great advantage compare to wheels ( I play without assist), multiplayer is zero..and I am sad because I love F1 ..since 1966...

 

I dream of iracing or similar on ps4 but I cannot see when with Coemaster having the licence for ever, now  I play GTS which has the big advantage for on line races organised each week with players of same level meaning a lot of fun..even it is not full simulation but a lot of pleasure to drive

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Hill0 said:

I would buy f1 2020 if it was a sim, if you going to make a decent game do it properly. Everyone different enjoy the game guys.

Yes, you probably would. At a very conservative guess, at least 50% of the people who currently buy and like the game probably wouldn't. So what do you think they're going to do?

Edited by scottishwildcat
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2 hours ago, scottishwildcat said:

Yes, you probably would. At a very conservative guess, at least 50% of the people who currently buy and like the game probably wouldn't. So what do you think they're going to do?

But the arcade game already exists - the simulation would just be an enhancement - not a replacement - that 50% still has an arcade game.

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In my view they will need to balance it between an arcade and a sim. This means finding a balance between the mechanics. For example, if you are going to make tyre wear like in F1 2018 for Singapore and Monaco, and then the ai not having any effect on tyre wear, that destroys the fun. This year, you can drive Singapore and Monaco flat out without having to worry about the left front reaching 105 degrees. Of course, you could adjust the ai difficulty, but it seems quite ridiculous to reduce the ai difficulty because of that. Next thing, let us take more speed into corners without having to use high wing settings, and let us match the gears used by the current drivers in the real world. Like, using 1st gear? Drivers dont even use first gear unless it is at the start or extremely unique situations. But for a hairpin to get the front turn in? 
 

In addition to that, slipstream and Drs is overpowered in this game. Or at least make the dirty air more powerful because it is almost impossible to create a gap if the performance is similar, and you might as well stay behind and wait for the last lap, and overtake the car in front. Save all the ERS, and just deploy overtake and DRS. I get it that the slipstream and DRS is supposed to be powerful due to the bigger wings, but we should not be able to stay within one second of a car for fhe entire race that easily... 
 

There is a lot more that can be added, but codemasters need to find the balance between simulation and arcade. However, we do want to get closest to the real life, don’t we? Or make a game that has both settings or mechanics so that we can choose what we want.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, scottishwildcat said:

Yes, you probably would. At a very conservative guess, at least 50% of the people who currently buy and like the game probably wouldn't. So what do you think they're going to do?

Not so sure about that.

There already is a wide range of AI difficulty, brake assist, anti lock brakes, traction control, racing line, no damage, pit assist, the new steering assist, and the notorious gamepad assist. With more assists, including stability control (the inability to spin), and the option to disable tyre managment, it could work. How many more assists do the children need? Does an arcade game really need all those assists already in the game? Perhaps if they added a ghost all cars (call it unranked lobby, or online assist) we could avoid the intentional online wreckers too! 😁

I think codemasters make the game difficult to cater to the sim fans already, it's just that difficult unfortunately does not mean simulation. We have what could be called a bottom up game at the moment, and it would be better for it was top down. Perhaps there is not enough time or money to invest to get the game this way and the "lowest common denominator" approach makes more economic sense. Sure, it would reqire some more work put into the game, but they would sell more copies not less, and perhaps get less negative feedback.

Just as an aside, it would also be great if the AI didn't run the default setup at all tracks too. 

 

Edited by ChasteWand
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7 minutes ago, Krisperfectline said:

This year, you can drive Singapore and Monaco flat out without having to worry about the left front reaching 105 degrees. Of course, you could adjust the ai difficulty, but it seems quite ridiculous to reduce the ai difficulty because of that. Next thing, let us take more speed into corners without having to use high wing settings, and let us match the gears used by the current drivers in the real world. Like, using 1st gear? Drivers dont even use first gear unless it is at the start or extremely unique situations. But for a hairpin to get the front turn in? 

Monaco is not a track that eats tyres so here is more evidence that, even when codemasters attempt "simulation", they fail. Let alone your other points. Sometimes I feel stupid even to entertain the possibility codemasters could prove a decent sim! 😁

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I’m now looking into Iracing. I love racing, when I do play racing games I like racing to be close as it can be to real thing, Surly that’s what people look for when playing a sim from flying an airplane to racing a car? 

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My honest opinion.

I like so much Codemasters F1 Games, since 2010 (had on PS3) and 2011-2019 on Steam, 

Very good F1 Simulator, I say that, because, can simulate many things from real life. For me ' simulation ' don't mean about handling, FFB and car driving related, but in general, let's make a comparison from some things that we can see:

Real Life: In car, the drivers can change multiple options by pressing or rotating switchs;

Game: We have some that functions, like BBias, MIX Fuel, ERS modes; (of couse that actual car have engine mapping modes, but I said, simulate engine modes)

Real Life: On The track have FIA Digital Flags;

Game, On game we have this too, and works...

Real Life: The weekend, have 3 FPs, Qualifying and Race;

Game: We have option to choose full length sessions.

Of couse there much more to we compare, but I will not list all, I do not want to be very extensive here.

So, it's my opinion that I want to share with you.

 

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About handling model... I have an idea - release standard "simcade" version, and option to change physics to simulation as dlc. It would be nice to anyone - of someone wants arcade - they have it now, sim? you have dlc. I think that would be a great option.

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@yrek150 hi! Interesting suggestion but I don't think making a paid or free dlc to gain added realism could be a dlc. First of all paid = people complaining about having to pay for realism. It should be included anyway will be the reslonse. Free dlc might as well be a patch not dlc with tbe option of turning it on or off by the player. It would also need to be included as a lobby option (along with other much needed options to fine tune lobbies to fit the skill level of intended players).

@EduCalza

 Well put but I have to disagree with your definition of a sim. It is not what can be seen obviously on the surface that qualifies a game as a sim but what is not obvious to the hidden eye. I come from the world of highly critical flight simming where add on aircraft tend to fall into 2 categories. 1) Highly accurate real world physics and flight models written by real world engineers but graphics that are good but not great and 2) highly polished aircraft that look exactly like the real world plane with every cabin seat and coffee cup accurately modeled but are missing a few advanced flight systems (real world flight computer) and don't actually fly like the real thing. Sometimes a major developer will actually have both engineers and gfx artists on board and can create planes that real world pilots actually use for training. These are expensive but incredibly immersive. They even include the real world flight manuals adapted for the sim so you can train almost like a real pilot would including emergency procedures that mimic real life problems.

The F1 games fall in category 2 without a doubt. At no point do you actually feel like you are driving a real machine but it's the added excitement of the actual racing that makes you  not notice this too much. A good test is to just take a car out in a test /practice session (oops not included in the game for good reason!). Imagine being able to take a real f1 car for a few laps around a real life circuit. It would be incredibly exciting just to SIT in the car with all the electronics and power at your command. Even driving slow would blow your mind because you feel every nuance, every bump, every gear shift, every tire screech, etc etc. Truly exhilarating! Now take the game car round a circuit. Even with all assists off its not that exciting. After a few laps the brain tells you something is not right and you want some competition to have some fun. In the real life car you would want the experience to never end! Every lap would see you get used to its handling and feel a little more in control. In this way you can tell how sim like a game is quite well. Is the car exciting to drive on its own without another car on the track? Can you  go into setup and accurately adapt the tune to suit your driving and the track you are on. Can you feel all your adjustments making the difference they SHOULD be making?

Codies don't call their F1 game a sim for good reason. They refer to it more like a race experience. Which it is overall. It does indeed look and feel like you are in a real world event with all the rules and regulations as well as event sessions fairly accurately depicting the real thing. This is what the large majority of current players in the target audience want from the game. They want to be able to get right in the car and start a season or go online and start racing without the need to even learn the car or the track. The handling model is very simple to account for this. You are either gripping the track or you're not. Most setup changes are simplified to either increase or decrease lateral grip or to increase or decrease acceleration /top speed.

None of my comments are meant as a criticism of the Codies F1 game. It is what is it is for the chosen market. Quite a few of us would wish for a lot more engineering accuracy and would pay extra for it but we're not enough in numbers to ever see this change.

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a game to be a sim should recreate the behavior of a car as much as possible taking into account the tires, the track, the atmospheric temperature and the track itself. Sound also makes the difference, it is the small details that make the difference. Who better than the drivers can better explain the behavior of the cars? We need real drivers like seb and lewis who can give good information to go in the right direction of the game, because most people would like every year a game that looks more and more like reality. The level of the simulators will never be reached, because we are talking about huge costs while Codemasters sells the game for 70 euros. But also Assetto Corsa is sold at little price, but as a simulation it's a lot of stuff.

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On 4/20/2020 at 5:39 PM, Hill0 said:

I like to know if you will ever make a formula 1 sim game?

Im also hope that you sorted out ERS because in real life they don’t change ERS Manuel.

All the f1 games every year been arcade and it be great if you can do a sim version?

Knowing you brought Mad Studio ( project cars) I hope you won’t be making Project cars 3 in to an arcade! 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

Sims evolve over many years, which take money and effort, not forgetting passion, arcades are just copy and paste, cheap as chips affairs that are all about money. 

It's a real shame, because the f2 cars in this game, blow the f1 cars out of the water, with regards to physics. 

This game is for children, you want a proper Sim, you will have to go with the obscure or bug riden expensive messes that are availible 

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47 minutes ago, pachedupdemon said:

Sims evolve over many years, which take money and effort, not forgetting passion, arcades are just copy and paste, cheap as chips affairs that are all about money. 

It's a real shame, because the f2 cars in this game, blow the f1 cars out of the water, with regards to physics. 

This game is for children, you want a proper Sim, you will have to go with the obscure or bug riden expensive messes that are availible 

Half good points but I wouldn't call iracing, assetto corsa, rfactor or project cars 2 obscure bug ridden messes! They just don't have official F1 cars is all. The open wheel racing is actually phenomenonal!

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Almost all current racing or car games are simulators. None of them including iracing, rfactor, acc use real value. The only difference is the amount of simulation value built within the game.

Some other game may have super advanced simulation value, but drive nothing like the real thing. That's why it's better not to look for the word simulation, but rather authentic driving experience.

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5 minutes ago, MrDeap said:

Almost all current racing or car games are simulators. None of them including iracing, rfactor, acc use real value. The only difference is the amount of simulation value built within the game.

Some other game may have super advanced simulation value, but drive nothing like the real thing. That's why it's better not to look for the word simulation, but rather authentic driving experience.

How can they have "super advanced simulation value" and NOT drive like the real thing?! If you meant to say "super advanced graphics or game play value" I'd agree with you. I mean gran Turismo Sport advertised on release as "the REAL driving experience" but this was complete cobblers lol. Codies make games with a fairly accurate RACE DAY experience which is what most people who buy it want. They also want all the cars and drivers to look accurate. They succeeded there too. Some of the other sims you mentioned do actually use real values and that is reflected in the setups. As someone who has done a LOT of tuning in project cars for example many times I have read and studied REAL WORLD auto engineer tuning guides to tweak cars in the GAME! Now whether those real world values are simulated correctly in the games involved or just SIMULATE simulation is another question lol but if it works then it works who cares?

🤔😉

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6 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

Codies don't call their F1 game a sim for good reason. They refer to it more like a race experience. Which it is overall.

I very much agree with most of your post, but going to push back a little on this part. To me the race experience is are you doing the things an F1 driver would be doing in a race weekend. That is not true for the current CM game. Most of the race weekend is spent setting up the car to maximize its race performance. This is the interaction in the 3 practices sessions of reviewing the telemetry and modifying the setup. During qualifying and the race most of team is interacting with the telemetry to understand the state of the car and any changes in strategy. This reflects about 95% of what a driver and the race team do over a race weekend. However, for F1 2019, telemetry is not in the game, and the car setups are incomplete and many of those that are in place have been abstracted. 

What is nice is the look of the cars, the look of the tracks and the sense that you are there. Your description of being on a plane and simulating an experience where the plane looks like a plane at a realistic level, but does not reflect truly flying the plane is a very good analogy. 

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